Announcement: Upcoming Content Revision to MSDN Subscriber Downloads:

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

Due to a settlement agreement reached in January 2001, the following
products are being phased out and will no longer available to customers
through MSDN Subscriber Downloads or other channels at Microsoft. These
products will be removed from MSDN Subscriber Downloads as of December 15th,
2003.

Office XP Developer
Visio 2000
BackOffice Server 2000
Office 2000 Developer
Office 2000 Tools
Office 2000 Multilingual
Office 2000 Premium SR-1
Office 2000 Service Pack 2
Outlook 2000
Project 2000
SQL Server 7
SQL Server 7 Service Pack 3
Embedded Visual Tools 3.0
Visual Studio 6 MSDE
IE 5.5
MapPoint 2002
Visual Studio 6.0 SP3 and SP5
Windows 98
Windows 98 Y2K
Windows 98 Resource Kit
Windows 98 SP1 (all win98 except SE)
Windows NT 4.0
ISA Server 2000
Visual Basic for (Alpha Systems)

The following product will be updated with Java-compliant versions before
the 12/31/03 deadline:

Office XP Professional with FrontPage
Publisher 2002
Windows NT 4.0
Small Business Server 2000
--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

[Alun Jones [MS MVP]]

In article <#G$kYOpuD...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, "Andy Boyd [MS]"

<and...@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote:
>Due to a settlement agreement reached in January 2001, the following
>products are being phased out and will no longer available to customers
>through MSDN Subscriber Downloads or other channels at Microsoft. These
>products will be removed from MSDN Subscriber Downloads as of December 15th,
>2003.

Funny - I put that on my turntable, played it backwards, and it sounded like
it said "the MSDN Subscriber Download site will be very busy in the next ten
days." :-)

Alun.
~~~~

[Please don't email posters, if a Usenet response is appropriate.]
--
Texas Imperial Software | Find us at http://www.wftpd.com or email
1602 Harvest Moon Place | al...@texis.com.
Cedar Park TX 78613-1419 | WFTPD, WFTPD Pro are Windows FTP servers.
Fax/Voice +1(512)258-9858 | Try our NEW client software, WFTPD Explorer.

[Ronny Ong]

"Alun Jones [MS MVP]" <al...@texis.com> wrote in message
news:5ULzb.3996$_q6....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...

> Funny - I put that on my turntable, played it backwards, and it sounded
like
> it said "the MSDN Subscriber Download site will be very busy in the next
ten
> days." :-)

and the newsgroups could be very busy in January if ISA Server 2004 and VS
6.0 SP6 aren't available by then.

You know all the people who put DeCSS source code on T-shirts and sang the
code as a song? Maybe Microsoft should have printed T-shirts with the
java.awt.SystemColor.getWin32Index source.

I'm pretty sure that J++ programmers had no idea that they could only call
getWin32Index() on Win32.

And that's why ISA Server 2000 is going away.

[middletree]

What's a turntable?

"Alun Jones [MS MVP]" <al...@texis.com> wrote in message
news:5ULzb.3996$_q6....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...

[JDTHREE]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:26:57 GMT, al...@texis.com (Alun Jones [MS MVP])
wrote:

>In article <#G$kYOpuD...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, "Andy Boyd [MS]"
><and...@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>Due to a settlement agreement reached in January 2001, the following
>>products are being phased out and will no longer available to customers
>>through MSDN Subscriber Downloads or other channels at Microsoft. These
>>products will be removed from MSDN Subscriber Downloads as of December 15th,
>>2003.
>
>Funny - I put that on my turntable, played it backwards, and it sounded like
>it said "the MSDN Subscriber Download site will be very busy in the next ten
>days." :-)
>
>Alun.
>~~~~
>
>[Please don't email posters, if a Usenet response is appropriate.]

Rofl

John

[Alun Jones [MS MVP]]

In article <OviYwwqu...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, "middletree"
<middl...@htomail.com> wrote:
>What's a turntable?

It's the modern equivalent of a wax cylinder.

[J. C.]

But all jokes aside --- I still get these delivered to me on DVD right?
They're just being taken away from download?

"JDTHREE" <jo...@removeforspam.engagenet.com> wrote in message
news:c4ovsv0uogfsq4ltm...@4ax.com...

[Chris Ormerod]

Andy does say "or other chanels" so I assume that means no more physical
media availability at all, but if you already have the DVD/CDs then you can
still keep using those.

Chris.

"J. C." <justrem...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ehWhNuuu...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

[Brian Desmond [MVP]]

You're outta luck come Dec 15 - MS isn't allowed to distribute the stuff
anymore, so no DVD/CD.

--
--
Brian Desmond
Windows Server MVP
desm...@payton.cps.k12.il.us

Http://www.briandesmond.com

"J. C." <justrem...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ehWhNuuu...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

[h...@40th.com]

AB [Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:22:17 -0800]:
>Due to a settlement agreement reached in January 2001, the following...
>(real old stuff)

That'll teach you to be bad boys. This still has me po'ed:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12688

oh, wait, not that, I mean this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/28724.html

oh, wait, not that either, I really mean this:

<heck, google has it all>

(and why make "settlement agreement" sound like a bad thing?)

--
40th Floor - Software @ http://40th.com/
GT40 encryption-database toolkit

[J. C.]

Wow!! So what now? The only reason we Subscribed to MSDN was because of
all the free testing software that came with it. Guess we'll need to
rethink our position on this. What a shame it's been a great deal up until
now.

<h...@40th.com> wrote in message
news:egvd2wvu...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

[Kristofer Gafvert]

It's already going slow... 12kb/sec. This is gonna take all the ten days
downloading non-stop :-(

(i need a few of these, and didn't get it on media, so i have to download
it)

--
Regards,
Kristofer Gafvert
Reply to newsgroup only. Remove NEWS if you must reply by email, but please
do not.
www.ilopia.com - FAQ and Tutorials for Windows Server 2003

"Alun Jones [MS MVP]" <al...@texis.com> wrote in message
news:5ULzb.3996$_q6....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...

[Dennis Grinberg]

Andy,

I (and others) have several practical questions regarding this announcement:
- After Dec 15, will we still be able to use the products under our MSDN
licenses if we have already have media and license keys?
- If yes, is the answer still yes if our MSDN subscriptions expired and we
did not renew?
- Will the license keys for these items still be available on the MSDN site
even if the products are not?
- Will post Dec 15 *new* MSDN subscribers receive license keys for these
items even if the products themselves are not available to them? This is a
huge concern for us as we are adding staff and we utilize several of these
products in our applications and our new employees will need access to these
applications.

Thank you,

Dennis Grinberg

"Andy Boyd [MS]" <and...@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:%23G$kYOpuD...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

[Julia Lerman]

...and if these things are being deprecated in MSDN are they being
deprecated elsewhere? Support, etc? What are the plans for that? I haven't
really followed this but a quick look on technet and msdn didn't reveal
much. I have a client still using SQL7 (holding out on an upgrade till
Yukon). I'm not worried about ISA Server since obviously that's too current
to stop supporting ...

Julie Lerman
.NET MVP

"Dennis Grinberg" <dgrin_bli_luef@bli_luef.bellatlantic.net> wrote in
message news:OGHhjTz...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

[Alun Jones [MS MVP]]

In article <#jOK#B0uDH...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>, "Julia Lerman"
<THISWILLBOUN...@thedatafarm.com> wrote:
>....and if these things are being deprecated in MSDN are they being

>deprecated elsewhere? Support, etc? What are the plans for that?

Since Microsoft isn't allowed to distribute the Java portion any more, it
would seem likely that support will consist mostly of "deal with it, apply a
workaround, or upgrade", because MS won't legally be allowed to ship
anything containing the JVM. Various other downloads have been making their
way off the MS site, too. Windows 2000 SP3, for instance, which doesn't
require an MSDN subscription, is going.

I suspect that most of the updates concerned, for currently supported
products, are already available for free (though ISA is still apparently a
concern) in service packs. Microsoft have had a few months to plan for
this, so presumably there'll be an information page available soon.

But then again, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know what Microsoft has up its
sleeves.

[Hollis D. Paul]

In article <uKWpyRx...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>, Kristofer Gafvert
wrote:

> It's already going slow... 12kb/sec. This is gonna take all the ten days
> downloading non-stop :-(
>

Try doing a ng message capture at the same time and see if it speeds up.
That is how I get speedier action.

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]
Hol...@outlookbythesound.com
h...@compuserve.com
Using Virtual Access 4.52 build 277 (32-bit), Windows 2000 build 2195
http://search.support.microsoft.com/kb/c.asp?FR=0&SD=TECH&LN=EN-US

Mukilteo, WA USA

[Hollis D. Paul]

>>From: "Andy Boyd [MS]" <and...@nospam.microsoft.com>
Subject: Announcement: Upcoming Content Revision to MSDN Subscriber
Downloads:
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:22:17 -0800
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.msdn.general

Due to a settlement agreement reached in January 2001, the following
products are being phased out and will no longer available to customers
through MSDN Subscriber Downloads or other channels at Microsoft. These
products will be removed from MSDN Subscriber Downloads as of December
15th, 2003.

..

ISA Server 2000

The following product will be updated with Java-compliant versions
before the 12/31/03 deadline:

Office XP Professional with FrontPage
Publisher 2002
Windows NT 4.0
Small Business Server 2000
--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads >>

If SBS2003 uses ISA 2000, will it be included in the MSDN discs
scheduled for release in January?

Will ISA 2004 be ready by Dec 15? And will there be a SP or upgrade
that will install it on the SBS2003 Premium installations?

Enquiring minds would like to know. ...

Hollis D. Paul [MVP - Outlook]

Hol...@outhousebythesound.com

[Julia Lerman]

So *technical* support per se is still there, just not software
distribution. I see. Thanks.

julie

"Alun Jones [MS MVP]" <al...@texis.com> wrote in message

news:hr2Ab.7631$y36.372...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

To the best of my knowledge, here's how things will work:

1. You still have the license to use any product in your possession
according to the licensing terms of your subscription, it' just that we
(Microsoft) cannot distribute new copies of these software versions. Since
you have the write to use your subscription software after your subscription
expires, this will also apply to these Java-products.

2. I've been asked to retire software, not keys. All keys (both static and
activation) will still be provided to current and new subscribers.

3. With respect to support, my understanding is that this will not affect
the support policies for a product. However, it may affect the support
procedures - a support engineer wouldn't be able to send you a new copy of
the media, for instance, or may recommend a Java compliant upgrade rather
than a non-compliant one. I haven't received any specific guidance on this,
so I would recommend checking with your support representative or
www.microsoft.com/java if you have specific questions.

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Dennis Grinberg" <dgrin_bli_luef@bli_luef.bellatlantic.net> wrote in
message news:OGHhjTz...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

One quick correction/revision:

The products that I mention as being updated by 12/31/03 will be updated to
versions without the Microsoft Virtual Machine. It was pointed out to me
that "Java Compliant" could be misleading, my apologies if there was any
confusion.

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Andy Boyd [MS]" <and...@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:%23G$kYOpuD...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

[Homer J. Simpson]

I'm one of the people who whined here about the fact that, for one thing,
MSDN stopped shipping Office 2000 on CD/DVD when Office XP came out. I
still need to test some of my own stuff on Office 2000 because that's what
most of my customers are still running. My only option was to get Office
2000 through the Subscriber Download area--and I was pretty happy with this
arrangement.

If I understand the situation correctly, I'm now gonna be SOL if I need to
get ahold of any of the products listed in your original post? As a
developer, am I supposed to tell my customers that I can't reproduce a
problem they might be having with one of my products running alongside
Office 2000 because I can't replicate their environment?

(I know some people will say "well then get it *now* while it's still
online", but that's besides the point, isn't it? Hypothetically speaking,
what if I became a new subscriber in January and needed to get ahold of
Office 2000?)

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

I appreciate your frustration, but I'm afraid that my hands are tied. Due
to the terms of the 2001 Java settlement, Microsoft Corporation is
prohibited from shipping these products with the Microsoft Virtual Machine
after 12/31/03. I've kept them on the site for as long as I could, but now
they must be removed. There will, in fact, be some further content
revisions about mid way through next year as well, but I don't have that
list finalized as yet.

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Homer J. Simpson" <ro...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:OJDeeJ3u...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

[Homer J. Simpson]

"Andy Boyd [MS]" <and...@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:O5Dnsz3...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

> I appreciate your frustration, but I'm afraid that my hands are tied. Due
> to the terms of the 2001 Java settlement, Microsoft Corporation is
> prohibited from shipping these products with the Microsoft Virtual Machine
> after 12/31/03. I've kept them on the site for as long as I could, but
now
> they must be removed. There will, in fact, be some further content
> revisions about mid way through next year as well, but I don't have that
> list finalized as yet.

Thanks Andy. I wasn't expecting solutions, of course, but I do *very much*
appreciate that you understand my predicament. At least I know my comments
haven't gone unnoticed at Microsoft. It'd be great if you could pass this
along to the higher-ups, even if they can only respond that they, too, have
their hands tied.

Surely the Java folks are aware that this sort of thing *cannot* benefit
Microsoft's third-party developers (guys like me). Yeah, smart move, I'll
go buy some Java books right now. NOT.

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

Believe me, these are issues that the MSDN team (and, in truth, a number of
other groups at Microsoft) been raising and trying to work through for about
a year and a half now. About the best that I can do is to give you a link
to http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/java/developers.asp which contains
information on your options with respect to Java.

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Homer J. Simpson" <ro...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message

news:Omk%233C4uD...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

[Brian Desmond [MVP]]

> If I understand the situation correctly, I'm now gonna be SOL if I need to
> get ahold of any of the products listed in your original post? As a
> developer, am I supposed to tell my customers that I can't reproduce a
> problem they might be having with one of my products running alongside
> Office 2000 because I can't replicate their environment?

My solution, and probably alot of other people is to download all of the
products listed. I've got about 10 more queued up in FTM - it's been running
non stop since 11:30 last night. Burn the CDs you know you'll use, and
archive the ISOs/SFXs someplace on your harddrive. Harddrives are really
cheap now, get a big one for MSDN stuff. I've started doing that so that I
don't have to redownload software when the CDs get ruined, grow legs, etc.

--
--
Brian Desmond
Windows Server MVP
desm...@payton.cps.k12.il.us

Http://www.briandesmond.com

"Homer J. Simpson" <ro...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message

news:OJDeeJ3u...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

[Homer J. Simpson]

"Andy Boyd [MS]" <and...@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:u1scc74u...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

> Believe me, these are issues that the MSDN team (and, in truth, a number
of
> other groups at Microsoft) been raising and trying to work through for
about
> a year and a half now. About the best that I can do is to give you a link
> to http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/java/developers.asp which contains
> information on your options with respect to Java.

My preferred option, seeing situations like these, is "don't touch Java with
a 10 foot pole". Way to sell your products to developers, Sun!

[Philip Pennington]

Which settlement? Can you specify the agreement/imposed
sanctions, or at least provide a case reference number?

>--
>Andy Boyd
>Program Manager
>MSDN Subscriber Downloads
>
>
>
>

>.
>

[Ronald]

http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/java/faq.asp

"Philip Pennington" <phillip.p...@providentbank.com> wrote in message
news:034c01c3bdbf$0114cf10$a101...@phx.gbl...

[A Ledoux]

That is awful! I paid money for products that need/use
what you have listed, I am not pleased and am seriously
considering looking at linux/mac as an alternative in my
workplace.

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

I'll post this as a separate announcement, but we're going to move back the
drop-dead date for removing these products until 12:01 AM Pacific time on
the 23rd. This will give everyone an extra week to download a copy of
anything on the list that is going to get pulled.

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Andy Boyd [MS]" <and...@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:%23G$kYOpuD...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

[Sam Lewis]

Seems Sun/Java is screwing us Windows 98 users, I am
starting a group to bring a class action law suit. Let them
buy me a complete working new system.

>.
>

[Sam Schutte]

Andy, my company uses the workflow tools for SQL Server 2000 that are
built into Office XP Developer. In fact, they are key for a product
that is approaching the final stages. Will future versions of Office
Developer include new workflow tools? I searched for the office 2003
versions online, and did not see a "developer" version.

It's going to really hurt us if we have to abandon XP Developer this
late in the product cycle...

s.

"Andy Boyd [MS]" <and...@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<e7jUQI3u...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>...

[Chuck McManis]

Can we get "final" copies of these products in CD form
with all patches/service packs/etc applied to continue our
legacy testing?
--Chuck

>.
>

[anon...@discussions.microsoft.com]

what for?

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

I believe that the Office 2003 replacement for developer is Visual Studio
Tools for Office. I don't have any information on specific products and
their future revision plans, though you can check the www.microsoft.com/java
site for information on the MSJVM transition.

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Sam Schutte" <fenderstr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fc907ef2.03120...@posting.google.com...

[Bent Børgesen]

According to Knowledge Base-article 828089, it is the BizTalk server.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;828089

--
Bent Børgesen
The Institute for The Blind and Partially Sighted in Denmark

"Sam Schutte" <fenderstr...@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:fc907ef2.03120...@posting.google.com...

[Vidar]

Does this mean that Microsoft will stop making updates and
patches for these products?

>.
>

[Eric Frost]

> I'm pretty sure that J++ programmers had no idea that they could only call
> getWin32Index() on Win32.
>
> And that's why ISA Server 2000 is going away.

I don't think there's any Java in MapPoint 2002. MapPoint 2004 is
practically the same thing anyway, so it doesn't make sense to me.

Someone tell me what Java is in MapPoint 2002??

Thanks,
Eric

http://www.mp2kmag.com/mappoint.asp

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

Generally, what's causing us to remove most of these products is that a
Windows service pack was included on the installation media that contains
the MSJVM. Even though Java is not in the product itself, the presence of
the service pack means that I cannot provide the media as a download. Some
products, such as ISA Server 2000, will be providing updated media with a
new Windows Service Pack - others (such as Office 2000) do not.

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Eric Frost" <ericw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:22a76b87.03120...@posting.google.com...

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

More thorough information on the support and security issues can be found at
www.microsoft.com/java.

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Vidar" <vi...@vestinkasso.no> wrote in message
news:fe2b01c3be37$ee57b530$a601...@phx.gbl...

[Homer J. Simpson]

"A Ledoux" <anon...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:02a701c3bdc2$d000bc00$a301...@phx.gbl...

> That is awful! I paid money for products that need/use
> what you have listed, I am not pleased and am seriously
> considering looking at linux/mac as an alternative in my
> workplace.

Just make sure you don't start using Java on those other platforms.

Maybe that'll be their new motto: write once, sue everywhere!

[Alun Jones [MS MVP]]

In article <02a701c3bdc2$d000bc00$a301...@phx.gbl>, "A Ledoux"

<anon...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>That is awful! I paid money for products that need/use
>what you have listed, I am not pleased and am seriously
>considering looking at linux/mac as an alternative in my
>workplace.

Oh, please, you're not being refused the right to continue running it,
you're being refused the right to fetch a fresh version, because Microsoft
have been required by the courts to stop distributing it.

How do you think that this is under Microsoft's control? Can I suggest that
you exclude Sun from your possible future choices of operating system, since
they are the ones steering this buggy?

[Annie Ganal Flager]

Hi,

I went to the link at www.microsoft.com/java and read the fine print in the MSJVM Transition Guide, and I am still unclear as to the issues of support and security patches, especially regarding SQL Server 7. If SQL Server 7 becomes unsupported, especially in regard to any future security patches, I will need to upgrade to SQL Server 2000 asap. Please answer as soon as possible so I can get started before the holidays!

Thanks, Annie Ganal Flager - a DBA at UCSD.

[Linda Moore]

In the message send to MSDN subscribers, Microsoft's new
product Virtual PC is also mentioned. What is the status
of this product.

Linda Moore
Linda...@ntpcug.org

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

Can you send me a copy of the announcement? The draft that I looked at
doesn't mention it anywhere.

Thanks,

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Linda Moore" <anon...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:029b01c3c206$ba6c2df0$a501...@phx.gbl...

[Mark Weinreb]

Andy, I suspect that the OP is confusing the "Microsoft Virtual PC" with the
"Microsoft Java Virtual Machine".

"Andy Boyd [MS]" <and...@nospam.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:u1x1WVzw...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

[test]

[Milton]

This is what you get when you get locked into someone's
technology. I am very agree

Milton

[Vince Sluthar]

I am a windows 98 user, how do I get support?

[Andy Boyd [MS]]

Just as you normally would - this only affects distribution of new copies of
Win98 (except for Win98 SE, which I can still provide).

--
Andy Boyd
Program Manager
MSDN Subscriber Downloads

"Vince Sluthar" <44072...@vtext.com> wrote in message
news:029601c3da13$0a1fb5f0$a401...@phx.gbl...

[test]

[alpha]