Word & PDF file size bloats
MichaelC
Sharing word and pdf files with PC colleagues is proving problematic. In
particular, when I save an emailed file the size bloats tremendously. So, for
example, a 6 MB pdf file suddenly becomes a 22MB pdf file. With a 10MB limit
on our emails this makes sharing files next to impossible. I'm forced to
compress many files, which I shouldn't have to.
Does anyone know why this happens and what I can do to stop it?
thanks
Michael
Michel Bintener
first of all, which format are you saving the documents in? The new Office
Open XML file format (.docx) automatically compresses files, so these files
are by default smaller than binary Word files (.doc)? Secondly, is there an
image in the file? If that image is in a Mac-specific file format, and you
save the file, Word automatically saves a copy of the picture in a file
format that can be read by PC users, thus making the file size balloon. Try
saving the picture in PNG file format, which is platform-independent and
which does not require Word to make a copy for compatibility purposes.
If none of these solutions solve your problem, post back and we will try to
find other ways to reduce the file size.
On 10/10/09 6:58, in article 9d5e07393b20b@uwe, "MichaelC" <u55359@uwe>
wrote:
--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP - Macintosh
*** Please always reply to the newsgroup. ***
MichaelC
I find I have to switch between .doc and .docx as most colleagues' machines
can't read the latter.
The biggest problem appears to be with PDFs. Yes there are images but I can't
say whether these are in Mac-specific format. They're cut-and-pasted into a
word file that is latter converted to PDF by a colleague (an editor). When
she sends them back to me and I save them, the size balloons out.
I tried your suggestion of saving in PNG but it only seemed to save the cover
page of the document.
So, no progress I'm afraid. Any suggestions?
Michel Bintener wrote:
>Hi Michael,
>
>first of all, which format are you saving the documents in? The new Office
>Open XML file format (.docx) automatically compresses files, so these files
>are by default smaller than binary Word files (.doc)? Secondly, is there an
>image in the file? If that image is in a Mac-specific file format, and you
>save the file, Word automatically saves a copy of the picture in a file
>format that can be read by PC users, thus making the file size balloon. Try
>saving the picture in PNG file format, which is platform-independent and
>which does not require Word to make a copy for compatibility purposes.
>
>If none of these solutions solve your problem, post back and we will try to
>find other ways to reduce the file size.
>
>On 10/10/09 6:58, in article 9d5e07393b20b@uwe, "MichaelC" <u55359@uwe>
>wrote:
>
>> I use Office 2008 on a Macbook Pro with OS X 10.6.1
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> thanks
>> Michael
>
MichaelC
originally drafted by me or not. That is, downloading pdfs from the web and
attempting to pass them on is difficult since the file size increases once I
save them.
>>Hi Michael,
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>>> thanks
>>> Michael
Rob Schneider
Am I reading correctly? Someone sends you a PDF file in mail with a
known size. You download that PDF file. The PDF file that you save is
not the exact file size as sent and in fact it is increased?
--rms
MichaelC
the size of the sent file.
Any clues?
Rob Schneider wrote:
>Michael,
>
>Am I reading correctly? Someone sends you a PDF file in mail with a
>known size. You download that PDF file. The PDF file that you save is
>not the exact file size as sent and in fact it is increased?
>
>--rms
>
>www.rmschneider.com
>
>> I should add that the problem occurs regardless of whether the document was
>> originally drafted by me or not. That is, downloading pdfs from the web and
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>>>> thanks
>>>>> Michael
MichaelC
double) the size of the sent file.
Any clues?
Rob Schneider wrote:
>Michael,
>
>Am I reading correctly? Someone sends you a PDF file in mail with a
>known size. You download that PDF file. The PDF file that you save is
>not the exact file size as sent and in fact it is increased?
>
>--rms
>
>www.rmschneider.com
>
>> I should add that the problem occurs regardless of whether the document was
>> originally drafted by me or not. That is, downloading pdfs from the web and
Rob Schneider
: what does this have to do with Word?
: what email client are you using?
: what happens when you download using another email client software?
: what happens when they send you the file via memory stick or CD?
: what program executes to "expand" the file. Some program running on
your computer is is doing this. Is it malware?
: what happens when you use, instead of a Mac (which I presume you are
using) and use an email client running on Linux or Windows?
: what happens when you use a web mail service (Yahoo, Gmail, etc.)
instead of your email client (so that the browser download program runs,
assuming it's different).
Beyond that I have no idea. Your computer is getting a copy of the file
(that's how downloading works), but your computer has chosen to make a
copy which is different from the copy sent to you. That's a problem, and
a flaw.
--rms
Michel Bintener
save the image first, then insert it into Word using either drag and drop or
the Insert>Picture>From File command. Some people will even tell you never
to use drag and drop, as it can bypass some of the import filters in Word.
If you paste the image, you have no control over what Word is going to do
with it, and the scenario of duplicate images because of different file
formats which I described in my previous post applies.
As for PDFs: once you have followed the procedure described above, you
should find that the file size is reduced. You can also use the ColorSync
Utility that comes with Mac OS X to reduce the file size of PDF files (at
the cost of picture quality). If you need help with this, just post back.
On 10/10/09 8:28, in article 9d5ed18cdb771@uwe, "MichaelC" <u55359@uwe>
wrote:
> The biggest problem appears to be with PDFs. Yes there are images but I can't
> say whether these are in Mac-specific format. They're cut-and-pasted into a
> word file that is latter converted to PDF by a colleague (an editor). When
> she sends them back to me and I save them, the size balloons out.
--
MichaelC
John McGhie
.docx is a compressed format, PDF is not necessarily so....
Cheers
On 10/10/09 3:58 PM, in article 9d5e07393b20b@uwe, "MichaelC" <u55359@uwe>
wrote:
> I use Office 2008 on a Macbook Pro with OS X 10.6.1
This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!
--
John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:jo...@mcghie.name
John McGhie
On 10/10/09 5:28 PM, in article 9d5ed18cdb771@uwe, "MichaelC" <u55359@uwe>
wrote:
> Thanks Michel,
>
> I find I have to switch between .doc and .docx as most colleagues' machines
> can't read the latter.
That's their issue: they are missing Microsoft Office service pack 2 (which
means they're a virus or security penetration disaster waiting to
happen...). Tell them to have a chat to their IT Department :-)
Cheers
Phillip Jones, C.E.T.
If so go to Advanced menu and choose optimize file the got to User info
and click second item remove User info and metadata.
Save as a new file and check to see if file dramatically decreases.
Also go back on the new file and choose Fonts in the Optimize menu. look
for duplicate versions of the embedded fonts example say you have ten
copies of Helvetica Bold italic remove all but one copy. Look for other
duplicates. You only need one copy of each different font, once all
duplicates have been un-embedded save again. The two items could depend
upon the information discard could decrease the file size by 50-75%.
Its the difference between the way PC and Mac's handles graphics. png
and jpg are usually the ones that work the best.
--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjo...@kimbanet.com
Tim Murray
> In particular, when I save an emailed file the size bloats tremendously.
Something is wrong with this picture. A file that shows itself as some size
in your e-mail should not expand upon saving to disk. And also, compression,
if you mean zip, usually does not save a whole lot of space in a PDF. You
you zip a PDF and you shrinks a great deal, then, well, frankly I'm at a
loss.
And about that compression: In another post you said than an inbound file
bloats when saved, but your original post would be valid for outbound. Do
files bloat in both directions? You send a 6 and your friend gets a 22?
Your friend sends you a 6 and you get a 22?
Finally, in any case, Acrobat's "reduce file size" command work well.
MichaelC via MacKB.com
it turns out. At the very least I'll get a better feel for the scope of the
problem.
Tim, in answer to your question: No, it doesn't seem to bloat in reverse.
That said, the size limit on our e-mails means I simply can't send a 22 MB
file.
I must confess, it's all very frustrating.
Michael
--
Message posted via MacKB.com
http://www.mackb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/word/200910/1
MichaelC via MacKB.com
I just inserted in an e-mail the document that was originally 6 MB, reads as
17 MB in my folder and which promptly bloated to 22 MB upon insertion. This
is the same file I originally quoted you, so I'm afraid I gave you a bum
steer. Even so, the case just curiouser.
Michel, I tried saving the picture files as both png and jpg rather than
simply cutting and pasting, but I'm afraid the quality is far too poor for my
purposes.
I'm quite new to macs but have never encountered a problem like this. It's
making work impossible.
Phillip, I haven't done as you suggested yet. I'll have to get on to my
editor as it's she who has the acrobat. You may be on to something here, and
it makes me think I might have to buy acrobat pro for my machine, rather than
relying on others.
MichaelC wrote:
>Thanks everyone. I'm going to test your suggestions and will let you know how
>it turns out. At the very least I'll get a better feel for the scope of the
>problem.
>
>Tim, in answer to your question: No, it doesn't seem to bloat in reverse.
>That said, the size limit on our e-mails means I simply can't send a 22 MB
>file.
>
>I must confess, it's all very frustrating.
>
>Michael
>
>>> In particular, when I save an emailed file the size bloats tremendously.
>>> So, for example, a 6 MB pdf file suddenly becomes a 22MB pdf file. . . .
>[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
Rob Schneider
Like Tim, I feel something is wrong with this story. Can you please clarify
1. Someone sends you an email that when it leaves their desk, the
atttached file is 6 mb.
3. What is the format of this 6mb file? Word? PDF? Other?
3. You receive the file in email and without you doing anything to it
it "bloats" to 17 mb while still in email.
4. What is the format of this 17 mb file? Word? PDF? Other? What
program do you think converted it fom 6 to 17 mb?
5. What do you mean "insertion"? Inserting from where to where? What
was inserted into what? You inserted the 17mb PDF file into a Word file?
6. When you use Word exactly what steps do you go through to do what
you are doing?
--rms
MichaelC via MacKB.com
Apologies if I've confused you.
1. Yes, the file attached to the incoming email is 6 mb.
2. The file is in PDF.
3. I find the file has 'bloated' to 17 mb once I've saved it. If I then try
to attach it to an outgoing email, it grows to 22mb. (Interestingly, a
different file, but with the same images, shrunk from 4.66 to about 3.5 mb
when I saved it to my folder!)
4. PDF. Other than the suggestions from you and others on this forum, I don't
know why it enlarges.
5. I'm sorry for confusing you here. I used "insert" when I should have said
"attach". When I attach the (now) 17 mb file is grows again to 22 mb.
6. I use Word to draft the document. I then send that word file to a
colleague who has a simple pdf tool (not sure which but I will ask). The pdf
version she then sends back to me is roughly 6 mb (see #1 above).
I hope this is clearer. (Part of the problem is that I am not especially IT
literate, as you may have guessed already.)
Michael
Rob Schneider wrote:
>MichaelC,
>
>Like Tim, I feel something is wrong with this story. Can you please clarify
>
>1. Someone sends you an email that when it leaves their desk, the
>atttached file is 6 mb.
>
>3. What is the format of this 6mb file? Word? PDF? Other?
>
>3. You receive the file in email and without you doing anything to it
>it "bloats" to 17 mb while still in email.
>
>4. What is the format of this 17 mb file? Word? PDF? Other? What
>program do you think converted it fom 6 to 17 mb?
>
>5. What do you mean "insertion"? Inserting from where to where? What
>was inserted into what? You inserted the 17mb PDF file into a Word file?
>
>6. When you use Word exactly what steps do you go through to do what
>you are doing?
>
>--rms
>
>www.rmschneider.com
>
>> I stand corrected Tim!
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>>>> Finally, in any case, Acrobat's "reduce file size" command work well.
--
Rob Schneider
that since you say that the file goes from 6 mb to 17 when you "save it"
(presumably with your email program) that you email programe is flawed.
You also talk about how attaching the file causes it to grow.
Something in your email program is messing with the attachment file.
That is bad.
I don't think, based on the information you provide, that your issue has
much to do with Word. Your email program is flawed.
--rms
MichaelC via MacKB.com
Rob Schneider wrote:
>From what you say, I can only conclude the same as I did back on 10/10,
>that since you say that the file goes from 6 mb to 17 when you "save it"
>(presumably with your email program) that you email programe is flawed.
> You also talk about how attaching the file causes it to grow.
>Something in your email program is messing with the attachment file.
>That is bad.
>
>I don't think, based on the information you provide, that your issue has
>much to do with Word. Your email program is flawed.
>
>--rms
>
>www.rmschneider.com
>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>>>>>> Finally, in any case, Acrobat's "reduce file size" command work well.
--
Rob Schneider
the file.
At this juncture, I'd lobby for the IT folks to check out all the machines.
--rms
John McGhie
It occurs to me that if the "content" of that PDF were to be scanned
bitmaps, then it would indeed bloat up: to about 20 times its size, when
unpacked.
I guess the key question for the OP is "When it is expanded at the other
end, can the other user EDIT the file?"
I think we need to learn what exactly is in that thing...
Cheers
On 12/10/09 2:25 AM, in article
0001HW.C6F77121...@news.microsoft.com, "Tim Murray"
<no-...@thankyou.com> wrote:
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:jo...@mcghie.name
Phillip Jones, C.E.T.
handle Graphics. Graphic on a Mac sent to windows machine will grow 2-4
times the size. and if the reverse would be 2-4 times what they would be
if created on the Mac. Png and jpeg seems to be the best format with the
least amount of Ballooning
--
Rob Schneider
bloat. He mentions nothing about unzipping or extracting them from a
compressed file (far as I can see).
--rms
Phillip Jones, C.E.T.
someone with a PC, They sent it back to him (possibly with some changes,
I am unsure of this) and when it got back to him it was 2-4 times or
more large than when he originally had it to start with. Say if it was 1
mb when he created it by the time it made the round trip it was 2-4 mb
depending upon the file.
--
John McGhie
almost certainly what is happening :-)
His editor sends him an email containing a 6 MB PDF attachment. It was
probably 17 MB on her disk, but if she sent using Entourage or another
advanced email program (e.g. Lotus Notes) it would automatically Zip the
attachment without her being aware of it. 17 MB will become 6 MB if the
content is mainly text.
When he gets the email, he can see the file is 6 MB. When he saves it, his
email program helpfully unzips it for him, and it's back to 17 or 22 MB or
so. That's all normal operation, except that neither email program is
telling the users what is happening. Don't worry about the apparent
disparity in file size: it depends on how the system is counting it and what
it is actually counting. Open the file and look at the "number of bytes"
and you will see they are the same size.
The bottom line is that PDF is generally too big to email anywhere, which is
why I suggested emailing the file as .docx. The .docx format is tightly
compressed natively, you don't have to bother zipping it (it IS a zip
file!).
As to PNG losing quality, it doesn't. That's the purpose of its existence.
PNG was created to avoid the quality loss inherent with JPEG and GIF. So if
you get poor quality results with PNG it's because the input was poor
quality: probably because you tried to make them from a JPEG.
The difference is that JPEG removes detail to preserve colour. PNG removes
colour to preserve detail. Which makes JPEG a good choice for photos of
people, because it gets the face tones correct. Use PNG for everything
else, because it preserves the resolution.
The only better choice for quality is EPS, which offers unlimited resolution
and colour, but you will have trouble with them outside the professional
publishing industry. EPS and its siblings need high-end graphics
applications installed to work correctly.
Also: When we came in to this discussion, the complaint was about file size:
adding EPS graphics to the mix would be a giant leap in the wrong direction
if that's the problem we are trying to solve :-)
Hope this helps
On 13/10/09 2:45 AM, in article uYz7OM1S...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl, "Rob
Schneider" <rmschne@yahoo_but_not_often_checked.com> wrote:
--
MichaelC via MacKB.com
Thanks for this.
My editor uses outlook and the file would not normally be compressed. I
receive it in entourage. In any case, this doesn't explain why it grows from
17mb to 22mb when I try to send it.
I'm afraid the PNG was rather poor quality. The image was a diagram with
labels and such. The resolution was considerably poorer than had I just cut-
and-pasted. Same thing for jpg.
This is all helping though folks. I've yet to test some of these theories for
lack of time. (We're releasing the document today, so have been caught up
with the preparation. I've been working around the 'bloat' problem as much as
possible. Even so, it's cost me time.
Michael
>[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, in any case, Acrobat's "reduce file size" command work well.
>
--
Rob Schneider
("this doesn't explain why it grows from 17mb to 22 mb *when I try to
send it*"). If it is the *sending* of the file that causes the bloat,
then you have fundamental flaws with whatever it is you are sending the
file with. In the Windows world I would suspect malware. I'm told (but
do not completely believe) that Mac computers do not suffer from
malware. So it's a big mystery how your email can "bloat" the file.
If the "bloating" is caused by you editing the Word document and
inserting graphics in whatever way you are doing it... well, that is
probably not "bloat". I suspect that is what is really happening, but
you never seem to say that. That is the way the software works. The
people replying here have given sage advice about how to put graphics
into a document in different ways. Again, that's how the software
works. It will insert the graphics in ways that it will do it and these
different ways result in the graphics going into the file in different
ways.
You are using Apple Mac version of Word and apparently your colleagues
are using Windows version of Word. They are two different bits of
software which share only a document format (perhaps some source code
but that a detail). If you used Windows versin of Word like your
colleagues the odds are they would experience the same file sizes as you.
My suggestion is that you not consider this a problem. It is working.
Probably as designed. Could it work "better" and not "bloat". I don't
know and I actually doubt it. The software is doing what its makers
told it to do.
Perhaps you are expecting more, but my hunch is that this is not a
problem (unless it is in fact your email which is "bloating the file"
and that, my friend, is a problem worth fixing).
Glad the the real problem--getting the document out today--is working!
--rms
John McGhie
When you make a PNG image, one of the settings you specify is the
"resolution". This is not a "fault" with the PNG image format, it's a
setting you need to make. If you set the quality to "low", that's what you
will indeed get :-)
Many programs such as Microsoft Office will set the quality very low if you
say you want to "email" the result. Often they will cut it to 96 dpi.
For laser printing, you need to override the automatics and set 300 dpi.
For offset printing, you need to set at least 1200 dpi (preferably 9600).
And, of course, the higher the quality, the bigger the file :-)
An 8-1/2 x 11 page at 96 dpi is 215,424 bytes. At 300 dpi it's 673,200, at
1,200 dpi it is 2,692,800 and at 9,600 dpi it is 21,542,400.
The real benefit of PNG is that it compresses the file by 20 to 1, so the
actual sizes on disk are 1/20th of the above.
But if you get poor quality from a PNG, it's because you set the quality too
low for your purpose when you made it.
I don't remember if anyone discussed the "Dual Format Images" problem in
this thread, but that may also have a bearing on the result.
If you create a document full of images, Word stores the images in the
document, in the native format for that platform. If you manipulate the
images in ANY way (say, by stretching or reducing them slightly) after you
have inserted them into the document, Word stores another copy of the image,
with your changes applied. So unless you manipulate the images outside Word
first, and insert only the finished, sized, adjusted image into the
document, Word will always store two copies of every image: the unchanged
original, and the changed version.
If you then send that document to a cross-platform version of Word, the
receiving copy of Word will convert those images into the native formats for
the platform it is running on. It does NOT remove the original, or the
changed version of each image. So for each image you now have four copies
in the document, an original and a converted version in PNG, and an original
and a changed version in PICT.
You may notice the file puts on a little weight if you allow this to happen
:-) The key is: "Use graphics software to finalise images, and don't insert
until it's exactly the way you want to print it. Then use
Insert>Picture>From File... To insert only a single version of the image, at
exactly the size and resolution you intend to print.
If you choose PNG as your image format, Word will leave it alone, on either
platform. As it will with EPS, but the "preview" in the document will look
very low quality.
Hope this helps
On 13/10/09 7:06 PM, in article 9d85643842e3e@uwe, "MichaelC via MacKB.com"
<u55359@uwe> wrote:
This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
MichaelC via MacKB.com
Incidentally, I solved the mystery of the bloating file and it's as simple as
this:
Without thinking, I opened the file attached to my editor's email in Preview
and saved it from there. Seems I made a silly mistake, though I suppose it
stems with unfamiliarity.
I want to thank all of you who took the time to help. All your advice and
insights have notched me along the learning curve.
many thanks
Michael
>[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Finally, in any case, Acrobat's "reduce file size" command work well.
>
>This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
>matters unless you intend to pay!
>
> --
>
>John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
>McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
>Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
>+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:jo...@mcghie.name
--
Message posted via http://www.mackb.com
Corentin Cras-Méneur
Hi John,
> If you then send that document to a cross-platform version of Word, the
> receiving copy of Word will convert those images into the native formats for
> the platform it is running on. It does NOT remove the original, or the
> changed version of each image. So for each image you now have four copies
> in the document, an original and a converted version in PNG, and an original
> and a changed version in PICT.
I wish Word had a "cleanup the file" command :-(
Corentin
--
--- Office:Mac MVP http://www.cortig.net/wordpress/ ---
http://www.mvps.org - http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
MVPs are not MS employees - Les MVP ne travaillent pas pour MS
Remove "NoSpam" to e-mail me - Retirez "NoSpam" pour m'�crire
John McGhie
Preview may have saved it in RTF, which is about four times bigger than doc
and about eight times bigger than .docx (depending on what's in it and how
it is made...).
I have seen professionally made RTF files that are TINY compared to the
equivalent Word document.
Cheers
On 15/10/09 6:49 AM, in article 9d981b81082e5@uwe, "MichaelC via MacKB.com"
John McGhie
If you have a VBA-enabled copy of Word, you could iterate the Images
collection and throw out anything that is not part of the Shapes collection
:-)
Cheers
On 15/10/09 7:58 AM, in article
1j7l5pl.1fzeg6j1mlnkbqN%korve...@NoSpam.mvps.org, "Corentin Cras-M�neur"
<korve...@NoSpam.mvps.org> wrote:
> John McGhie <jo...@mcghie.name> wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
>> If you then send that document to a cross-platform version of Word, the
>> receiving copy of Word will convert those images into the native formats for
>> the platform it is running on. It does NOT remove the original, or the
>> changed version of each image. So for each image you now have four copies
>> in the document, an original and a converted version in PNG, and an original
>> and a changed version in PICT.
>
>
> I wish Word had a "cleanup the file" command :-(
>
>
> Corentin
This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
Rob Schneider
described it, the "email" program was the target culprit. Who would
have thought?
--rms
John McGhie
damn user has no idea what is happening :-)
Cheers
On 15/10/09 6:01 PM, in article Ot6GXVWT...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl, "Rob
Rob Schneider
--rms
John McGhie wrote:
> Yeah, well this is the downside of "Making it easy for the user" � the poor
Corentin Cras-Méneur
> Well, in .docx you can "make" one :-)
>
> If you have a VBA-enabled copy of Word, you could iterate the Images
> collection and throw out anything that is not part of the Shapes collection
> :-)
Well that would require going to work on a Windows machine and it's
something I try not to do unless I don;t have a choice (plus I'd have to
learn VBA...).
I might pass on the offer John ;-)
jan.eri...@gmail.com
> I use Office 2008 on a Macbook Pro with OS X 10.6.1
>
>
>
> thanks
> Michael
I create a google doc with photos totaling 2M on my hardrive in size, and when I save the document the file bloats to like 15meg.
Just a google doc with very little text, and all pictures. Bloats when saving as a PDF.