Drop shadow on Drawn Lines 2008

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

I post in the Acrobat forums at Adobe Forums. I gave suggestion for
creating forms using either underscores or Leader Tabs to create Form
elements to use in Acrobat Forms Wizard.

Name: _____________

Address: _____________

and so on. I've been chastised mercilessly by another contributor That
say doing that adds unnecessary Characters. the contributor suggested
used Drawing lines. I tried on a Blank page using Drawing line after I
found the correct menu.

But I found a couple of things wrong.
1. There is no way to control the starting/ending points
(does not recognize margins)

2. in 2008 is shows a Drop shadow which you don't need in PDF form while
2004 doesn't have the drop shadow

Does the Contributor have a legitimate point?
How do you get rid of the Drop Shadow?
and Does word have rulers and guides to control begin and end point.
--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjo...@kimbanet.com

[CyberTaz]

There are a number of variables � such as whether it's a form to be printed
& filled in by hand or whether it will be filled in on screen � but for the
most part, neither of those options is the preferred way to go. You can be
less concerned for printed forms, but for on-screen forms see:

http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/LinesInForms.htm

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

On 1/1/10 3:46 PM, in article eiTbyNyi...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl,

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

The Originator on the thread wanted to use it both ways

CyberTaz wrote:
> There are a number of variables � such as whether it's a form to be printed
> & filled in by hand or whether it will be filled in on screen � but for the

--

[CyberTaz]

Then the methods described on that page are the only way to go, specifically
the use of appropriately formatted tables, table cells & fields. IMHO,
tables are the only way to go when designing a form template that will
undergo continuous use. If it's a 'one-time-use' for handwritten
fill-in-the-blanks use only, Tab Leaders are preferable to underscores but
drawn lines rank at the absolute bottom of the list.

Underscore characters would be replaced by the characters typed.

Tab Leaders would be replaced by the characters typed.

Drawn lines cannot be kept in place or accurately/consistently positioned.

All of the 3 present problems in a true form template where protection needs
to be used. Without protection the user can modify any of the content,
including what they *aren't* supposed to change. If protection is applied to
the sections containing either of the 3 the user can make no changes at all.

In other situations where the use of Drawing Lines is appropriate the shadow
can be removed using the tools in the Formatting Palette — clear the master
check in the Shadow group.

The only Rulers are the text rulers at the top & right of the document
window. There is a Grid available by default only from the Drawing Toolbar,
but the DrawSnapToGrid command can be added as a button to other toolbars or
have a keyboard shortcut assigned as well.

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

On 1/1/10 5:25 PM, in article euqNfFzi...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,

"Phillip Jones, C.E.T." <pjo...@kimbanet.com> wrote:

> The Originator on the thread wanted to use it both ways
>
> CyberTaz wrote:

>> There are a number of variables ‹ such as whether it's a form to be printed
>> & filled in by hand or whether it will be filled in on screen ‹ but for the

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

I tried out the Forms toolbar just to test out and find that when you
want you use to both fill out on the screen and Print out to fill form
there is no lines.

Say for example:

Name: ______________
Address: ______________ Address2: ______________

And if you use Tables How do yo create tables where you might have
multiple lines all across the page:

__________________
__________________

CyberTaz wrote:
> Then the methods described on that page are the only way to go, specifically

> the use of appropriately formatted tables, table cells& fields. IMHO,

> tables are the only way to go when designing a form template that will
> undergo continuous use. If it's a 'one-time-use' for handwritten
> fill-in-the-blanks use only, Tab Leaders are preferable to underscores but
> drawn lines rank at the absolute bottom of the list.
>
> Underscore characters would be replaced by the characters typed.
>
> Tab Leaders would be replaced by the characters typed.
>
> Drawn lines cannot be kept in place or accurately/consistently positioned.
>
> All of the 3 present problems in a true form template where protection needs
> to be used. Without protection the user can modify any of the content,
> including what they *aren't* supposed to change. If protection is applied to
> the sections containing either of the 3 the user can make no changes at all.
>
> In other situations where the use of Drawing Lines is appropriate the shadow
> can be removed using the tools in the Formatting Palette — clear the master
> check in the Shadow group.
>

> The only Rulers are the text rulers at the top& right of the document

--

[John McGhie]

Hi Phillip:

You are right, they are wrong; stand your ground :-)

Each of your underscores adds one character, so you add maybe 12 bytes of
information per line using your method.

Each drawn line adds about 25,000 bytes of information to a Word file.

I think the other contributor redefines "running off at the mouth when you
don't know what you are talking about"; and that your method is far
preferable in terms of file size.

Bob's suggestion of using tables is much easier and looks neater. But it
won't save you any file size :-)

Cheers

On 2/01/10 7:46 AM, in article eiTbyNyi...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl,

"Phillip Jones, C.E.T." <pjo...@kimbanet.com> wrote:

> I post in the Acrobat forums at Adobe Forums. I gave suggestion for
> creating forms using either underscores or Leader Tabs to create Form
> elements to use in Acrobat Forms Wizard.
>
> Name: _____________
>
> Address: _____________
>
> and so on. I've been chastised mercilessly by another contributor That
> say doing that adds unnecessary Characters. the contributor suggested
> used Drawing lines. I tried on a Blank page using Drawing line after I
> found the correct menu.
>
> But I found a couple of things wrong.
> 1. There is no way to control the starting/ending points
> (does not recognize margins)
>
> 2. in 2008 is shows a Drop shadow which you don't need in PDF form while
> 2004 doesn't have the drop shadow
>
> Does the Contributor have a legitimate point?
> How do you get rid of the Drop Shadow?
> and Does word have rulers and guides to control begin and end point.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:jo...@mcghie.name

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

I've tried the forms Manager in word and If your creating a form that
will be filled in both on and off line. You need some type of guide
lines to write on if your like me I find it impossible to write/print in
a straight line without some type guide line.

I haven't tried using tables. Do you have the ability turn on the line
visibility on the bottom of the cell and what do you do if you need a
solid line all the way across the page example:

Tell us about your work history: _____________________________
______________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________

Now if I were using my old method of using Tab delimiter

I would wipe out all preset Tabs, Then create one right Tab at 6, 6.5,
or 7.0

Type the first line hit tab,return, tab, return, tab, return
and that part of the form would be done Faster than setting up a Table
and formatting to show line with no text.

Okay I've just spent 2 minutes fixing this Form:
http://www.phillipmjones.net/Name.pdf

I spent 45 minutes fixing this:
http://www.phillipmjones.net/NameTable.pdf

The first looks professional because you under no circumstance put
underline under the items (name:, address:) I've just never run into
forms Unless everything ins boxed in where the titles are underlined.

It took five minutes to set up the rows and columns then 40 before
giving up on how to make the titles not have any borders.

Unless your making forms that have borders around everything someone has
rocks in their head making forms with tables.

the form in first item looks 200% time more professional than the other.

--

[John McGhie]

Hi Phillip:

For that application, you need four columns :-)

Since the columns are visible only if you say they are, you can have as many
as you like.

If the information is not uniformly aligned, then you can use multiple
tables.

You can even use one table per line of text if you want to :-)

The problem with the underscores method is that it looks disgusting if
people fill it in using Word rather than a pencil :-)

Cheers

On 3/01/10 4:15 AM, in article upLP788i...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

The form when created is supposed to be turned into a PDF which is then
turned in to a PDF Form. I'll have to experiment with making individual
one one line tables. and see how that works out. Why anyone would want
to take a PDF and convert it back to a word Document I'll never know.

--

[John McGhie]

Hi Phillip:

No sane person would convert a PDF back to a Word document. A PDF doesn't
contain sufficient information to make a Word document out of it.

They'll just email you and ask for the Word original.

Far quicker to do that, than to print it out, walk to the other end of the
office to get it, find a pencil to fill it in with, walk to the other end of
the office to scan it back in, then find it on the server and attach it to
an email.

The only time I would bother with a PDF is if I need to change it. Then I
will simply insert the PDF into a Word document, type the replacement text
over the top, and re-save as a PDF so you cannot tell that I have done that
:-)

Cheers

On 4/01/10 1:55 AM, in article u22l#SIjKH...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl,

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

That's what I thought. This poster on adobe did dust that to explain
their point. I think what it way the fancied themselves (and perhaps
they were) a Writer/Designer of a big corporation (sort of like you, but
you haven't let your station in life go to your head), and trying to
pick on someone they don't perceive as smart as they. It does make any
difference how a for is created If its converted to PDF the published on
the web or sent and filled out by hand it all looks the same.

in my experimentation's I created a template using the Tables. It looks
quite good.

as for replacing item in the original word document the resaving the
pdf the use replace command in th Acrobat to replace content with out
disturbing form elements, Yes I have done that myself. The thread has
died down hopefully since I provided smaples using both my original and
using table method. They funny thing the thread started out was what's
the quickest way to create a form so that it can be used both on the web
and filled out by hand. When I provided my method that's when all heck
broke loose. :-)

--

[John McGhie]

Hi Phillip:

Well, I think the poster who had a go at you was simply a "wanna-be". If he
was really a graphics designer in a large corporation, he would have access
to advanced PDF editing tools.

And then he *would* be able to tell that you and I had been up to mischief!

If you open a PDF in a proper PDF editor, you would find that the original
was in a graphics layer, and that our "enhancements" had been laid over the
top. And if he caught you doing that, he wouldn't have been able to resist
telling you :-)

Cheers

On 5/01/10 2:21 AM, in article O0cVRGVj...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,