single line spacing
fram...@officeformac.com
what gives?
Daiya Mitchell
default to add more space between paragraphs, so that each paragraph
will be single-spaced, but between paragraphs, you get extra space.
Paragraphs are created every time you hit enter.
To change in just this document, select all, go to Format | Paragraph.
Look down to the find the Spacing: After field, and change 10 to 0.
To change this in all documents created from now on, change the Normal
style.
First, select Format | Style. Normal should be selected.
Click on Modify--make sure "add to template" is CHECKED. You'll see a
Format menu in the bottom of the dialog--select Paragraph from it, and
change the Spacing: After setting from 10 to 0.
MC
Daiya Mitchell <daiya...@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote:
> It's not actually double-spacing that is the problem. Word changed the
> default to add more space between paragraphs, so that each paragraph
> will be single-spaced, but between paragraphs, you get extra space.
> Paragraphs are created every time you hit enter.
>
> To change in just this document, select all, go to Format | Paragraph.
> Look down to the find the Spacing: After field, and change 10 to 0.
>
> To change this in all documents created from now on, change the Normal
> style.
>
> First, select Format | Style. Normal should be selected.
>
> Click on Modify--make sure "add to template" is CHECKED. You'll see a
> Format menu in the bottom of the dialog--select Paragraph from it, and
> change the Spacing: After setting from 10 to 0.
By now it is pretty obvious that MS has made a decision that makes sense
-- to MS, and a bunch of purists... however, I'm pretty sure thaat most
users have got into the habit of Enter-Enter -- and this just confounds
us! Too bad MS just *did* it without offering a choice in Prefs.
--
"It's very hard to be a gentleman and a writer."
W. Somerset Maugham
fram...@officeformac.com
Daiya Mitchell
fram...@officeformac.com wrote:
> wonderful! thank you!
Daiya Mitchell
> By now it is pretty obvious that MS has made a decision that makes sense
> -- to MS, and a bunch of purists... however, I'm pretty sure thaat most
> users have got into the habit of Enter-Enter -- and this just confounds
> us! Too bad MS just *did* it without offering a choice in Prefs.
>
>
a style rather than an app-wide setting. But I think it's a
win-win--either you learn to use space between paragraphs instead of
hitting enter enter, or you figure out how to customize Word, which
everyone should do. :) A Default button in Format | Paragraph would be
nice, though.
They also changed the font in the default style from Times New Roman to
Cambria--haven't seen anyone complain about that....
John McGhie
you have to have Styles that work. That presupposes those styles have some
leading applied.
If you use a different style, you won't get the problem.
If you reset the leading (Space above or Space below) on Normal style, you
are likely to have some "issues" with document themes :-)
We could, of course, give you some other reasons not to use "blank lines".
They are a disaster if you are trying to format or paginate a document: if
you have blank lines in it, you never will get control of the formatting.
But there are still a few people stuck back in the glass typewriter days who
find old habits hard to break.
Tell you what: You manage to break ME of the habit of hitting two spaces at
the end of every sentence, and I will show you how to create single
paragraphs :-)
Cheers
On 8/02/08 7:51 AM, in article
copespaz-BFD885...@sn-radius.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net, "MC"
<cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:jo...@mcghie.name
MC
John McGhie <jo...@mcghie.name> wrote:
> Tell you what: You manage to break ME of the habit of hitting two spaces at
> the end of every sentence, and I will show you how to create single
> paragraphs :-)
Maybe this would work:
Go into Auto Correct and create a new entry making " .[space][space] "
correct to: " .[space] "
And do the same for ? and !
MC
<copespaz-3E4C6A...@sn-radius.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
> > Tell you what: You manage to break ME of the habit of hitting two spaces at
> > the end of every sentence, and I will show you how to create single
> > paragraphs :-)
>
> Maybe this would work:
>
> Go into Auto Correct and create a new entry making " .[space][space] "
> correct to: " .[space] "
>
> And do the same for ? and !
And if it *does* work, maybe keeping the default end of paragraph
spacing and making Word automatically correct two carriage returns
Correct to one might work... and if you can't get it towork within Word,
maybe something like TypeIt4Me or SpellCatcher could handle it.
That would let you keep typingthe way you always have -- two spaces at
theend of a sentence inyour case, two carriage returns in mine, and Word
(or something else) would quietly take care of things in the background.
OR... create an Apple Script that would automatically go through a
document and cleanthese things up once everything else was done.
Daiya Mitchell
> Go into Auto Correct and create a new entry making " .[space][space] "
> correct to: " .[space] "
>
> And do the same for ? and !
>
AutoCorrect autocorrecting, so you'd wind up in some sort of vicious
loop, so you can't create an AC like that.
The solution to that one is using a macro to save a Find and Replace
that does the two spaces to one after the fact, and running it periodically.
Oh wait, no macros in 2008. But, hey, hallelujuh! There's a built-in
Automator action for F&R that should make saving a F&R easy! Slower
than my macro and I lost focus, but better than nothing.
MC
Daiya Mitchell <daiya...@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote:
I'm resigned to the loss of macros, but I REALLY wish there was a way to
at least *simulate* the Recording of macros built in to Word. In other
words, make some kind of shell for AppleScripts... which ar a total
mystery to me, that I don't have the time to study and learn.
Daiya Mitchell
> I'm resigned to the loss of macros, but I REALLY wish there was a way to
> at least *simulate* the Recording of macros built in to Word. In other
> words, make some kind of shell for AppleScripts... which ar a total
> mystery to me, that I don't have the time to study and learn.
>
anyhow, recordable AppleScript might have long-term value.
I've got some replacements for the things I used--I'll get them public
in a little bit.
I get the impression that making AS recordable would have been a huge
job. Even Apple doesn't make it recordable--and the recorder tends to
record bad code. Nevertheless, totally agreed that without a recorder,
this situation is totally untenable.
MC
Daiya Mitchell <daiya...@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote:
I'm going to send feedback and use a couple of phrases of yours as if
they were mine!
Daiya Mitchell
>
> I'm going to send feedback and use a couple of phrases of yours as if
> they were mine!
>
Feel free.
MC
Daiya Mitchell <daiya...@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote:
It is done.
John McGhie
On 8/02/08 10:32 PM, in article
copespaz-3E4C6A...@sn-radius.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net, "MC"
<cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
> In article <C3D271D0.FCDC%jo...@mcghie.name>,
> John McGhie <jo...@mcghie.name> wrote:
>
>> Tell you what: You manage to break ME of the habit of hitting two spaces at
>> the end of every sentence, and I will show you how to create single
>> paragraphs :-)
>
> Maybe this would work:
>
> Go into Auto Correct and create a new entry making " .[space][space] "
> correct to: " .[space] "
>
> And do the same for ? and !
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
MC
John McGhie <jo...@mcghie.name> wrote:
> No Cigar! You have to change MY bad habits, not Word's :-)
>
Ah, but that's where wecompletely disagree. The app should be shaped to
our demands, not the other way around.
John McGhie
I assume you understand Styles and Inheritance?
Normal style is "Style 0". Everything inherits from Normal by default. You
can (and for professional work, you 'should'...) break the inheritance up
into chains, as explained in Clive's Bend Word book.
If you do, you can then set Normal to zero leading if you wish, and obtain
exactly the function you desire, without screwing up the themes and document
parts.
Mac Word is designed for absolute newbies to produce DTP-like Church
Newsletters. The bit of the design that was intended for document
professionals is hidden below the first layer of the user interface.
If you wish, you can customise Word within an inch of its life, and you
should. The 'feature' that makes it far and away the most powerful word
processor in the world, is that customisability. You can build exactly the
tool you want, to do precisely the job you do, in exactly the way you work.
No other application comes close.
Admittedly, Microsoft has broken a lot of that in this release, which is
very much a rush job. But presumably they don't intend to leave it like
this. I hope not, for their sake... It's dead in the water the way it is
now.
But unless your forte IS church newsletters, you have to take the thing by
the horns and bend it to your will. If you don't, you have wasted your
money buying it. The best power tools in the shop won't help if they're all
left hanging on the wall in the garage :-)
If you want a product that comes out of the box designed to do your job,
keep looking. Microsoft Office ain't it. Such a product would be in the
$15,000 a copy range, because Microsoft would have to do all the work.
But this product is designed so that you can customise it exactly for your
purposes. If you wish to do that, stay tuned and we'll show you how.
You'll get exactly what you want, and have enough money left over to fund
your other bad habits.
Cheers
On 9/02/08 10:59 PM, in article
copespaz-031ABA...@sn-radius.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net, "MC"
<cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote:
> In article <C3D3C5BB.FDFB%jo...@mcghie.name>,
> John McGhie <jo...@mcghie.name> wrote:
>
>> No Cigar! You have to change MY bad habits, not Word's :-)
>>
>
> Ah, but that's where wecompletely disagree. The app should be shaped to
> our demands, not the other way around.
--
MC
John McGhie <jo...@mcghie.name> wrote:
> Nah... You're getting circular here :-)
>
> I assume you understand Styles and Inheritance?
>
> Normal style is "Style 0". Everything inherits from Normal by default. You
> can (and for professional work, you 'should'...) break the inheritance up
> into chains, as explained in Clive's Bend Word book.
<SNIP>
Actually we agree. I customize Wordto my needs, and you customize it to
yours.
However we *should* be able to customize it to allow us to correct our
bad habits quietly in the background, but we can't, apparently, do that
for all our bad habits.
There is a program that (I believe) was originally based on Word Mac
(when it was called ScriptThing) called Movie Magic Screenwriter 2000 --
and that has a preference that allows you to choose automatic single
spaces or double spaces at the end of sentences. So if you select
Single, you can enter two spaces to your heart's content and get a
single space in the document-- and vice versa. If they can do it, why
can't Word?
Just one example of several that I can think of, but don't have the time
or energy to enumerate.
Daiya Mitchell
> Just one example of several that I can think of, but don't have the time
> or energy to enumerate.
>
want something else, or would put a greater priority on Word helping
with a different bad habit. The designers have to juggle all that, plus
what's feasible in the code, plus the need to keep the program actually
usable and minimize its strong tendency to overwhelm. Plus whatever the
official thinking is on software usability.
> So if you select
> Single, you can enter two spaces to your heart's content and get a
> single space in the document-- and vice versa. If they can do it, why
> can't Word?
>
typing multiple spaces. I can imagine the howls if Word took away the
ability to type multiple spaces in a row, or hid it in a preference.
I've used input managers that don't use punctuation and space as a
trigger for auto-correcting (or I think I have, not sure). They act very
strangely on my machine. Not correcting space-space is a small price to
pay for a generally excellent implementation of AutoCorrect, in my opinion.
By the way, you can tell Spelling and Grammar to flag two spaces as an
error, and then it will correct your bad habit when you run grammar
check. Plus you can Find and Replace, as mentioned before.
You can Help | Send Feedback, but I'd consider this really low priority,
myself--it would mean changing the basic code in AutoCorrect, when there
are already two workarounds to handle the same issue. Much better uses
of developer time.
Daiya
Charles
Daiya Mitchell <daiya...@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote:
> By the way, you can tell Spelling and Grammar to flag two spaces as an
> error, and then it will correct your bad habit when you run grammar
> check.
Apparently that is the default in 2008. (At least it seems to be in
mine.)
Charles
la...@officeformac.com
I have the same single line spacing problem described at the beginning of this discussion, but Daiya's advice:
"To change in just this document, select all, go to Format | Paragraph. Look down to the find the Spacing: After field, and change 10 to 0"
is not relevant in my case because my settings are already 0 pt spacing before and after.
Any other ideas?
Lanks
CyberTaz
fixed by the "same solution" :-)
In order to help out we'll need to know more about:
A) Your version of Word
B) Your version of OS X
C) Your type of Mac
D) A more detailed description of your problem
Use the Show/Hide button (ś) on your toolbar to see what kind of
non-printing characters display where - especially between the paras. Also
try clicking in just 1 para that exhibits the extra space beneath it & check
the Spacing Before/After - it could be that you have different settings on
different paras which could cause a false reading when you Select All.
HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
On 2/17/08 6:08 AM, in article ee8c9...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
Daiya Mitchell
Can you explain clearly what you do, what happens, and what you want to
happen instead?
la...@officeformac.com
Thanks for the responses (and the grammar lesson;)
I have actually managed to solve this issue by opening a 'new' document, copying the 'problem' text, pasting it into the new file and saving the document under a different name. Voilá, line spacing returned to the format setting: single.
So unless you really want to solve this one further, I'm happy to accept that there may have been some corruption in the file (it was a bastardised file from a PC version of Word). But the symptoms were as detailed in the opening thread by 'framfrog', as well as several other posts I have read. I'm running Office 2004 for mac on a MacBook Pro with OS X 10.5.1. I opened an old Word file, and the spacing between paragraphs appeared to be greater than one line, despite format settings set to single spacing. I didn't know which to curse, Microsoft or Apple.
Thanks again for your prompt replies. As a mac newbie, I am meeting a couple of 'transition challenges', but I have found the mac user community to be excellent.
Daiya Mitchell
it--paste into a new doc is one of the standard fixes, others here, just
FYI:
http://word.mvps.org/Mac/DocumentCorruption.html
Also, the problem in the original post (although framfrog didn't mention
it, I just guessed because dozens of others had the same problem)
occurred upon creating new documents, not opening old ones. That's
enough to make it not the same problem. :-) Incidentally, that's a
lesson in analysis or possibly logic, rather than grammar . :) (Sorry,
I'm a teacher--can't help it)
Thanks for the update--it'll likely help someone else later, especially
as that's not a familiar sign of corruption.
Unknown
Every time I hit enter, I get 1.5 spacing. Every time. HELP!
John McGhie
On 25/02/08 5:24 AM, in article ee8c9...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "John"
<John> wrote:
> Nothing helps me.
>
> Every time I hit enter, I get 1.5 spacing. Every time. HELP!
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:jo...@mcghie.name
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
Clive Huggan
McGhie" <jo...@mcghie.name> wrote:
I know that when someone has been used to using Word as a typewriter for a
long time, Word 2008's imposition of 10 points of leading ("ledding") after
a paragraph must be annoying and all they want is an immediate solution --
especially if all they type is short letters and memos.
However, for longer documents there are huge advantages to having leading
above or below paragraphs. For example, if you want to squeeze some
paragraphs up to fit some text on a page rather than have it spill overleaf,
it's *very* easy to do it by modifying the leading -- e.g. via the Paragraph
command. Also, headings automatically "glue" themselves to following text,
so you don't have to manually adjust formatting when the document is
completed.
For occasions when you have to avoid leading, such as address blocks in
correspondence, you simply key Shift-Return instead of Return at the end of
the line.
If you're interested in any of this, take a look at the article "The
advantages of including leading (blank space above or below) in styles" on
page 176 of the following reference; "Leading above, or below, paragraphs?"
on page 177; and an article on "minimum maintenance formatting" in Appendix
A starting on page 164.
The reference is some notes on the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend
Word to Your Will", which are available as a free download from the Word
MVPs' website (http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).
[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]
Cheers,
Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from North America and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================
Debbie
Also, when I set it to make labels for my avery 8160, the space between lines is huge, even though the little box at the side says it's 1. The spaces between the three lines is so large that the whole address (name, street, city/state/zip - only three lines) barely fit on the label and the name is almost cut off at the top. It's legible but looks bad. How to change this?
Thanks so much for your time,
Debbie
Debbie
Thank you!
Debbie
Cerulea...@officeformac.com
John McGhie
you have not "fixed" it, you have hidden it.
Not a problem if you don't send documents anywhere else, or get documents
from anywhere else.
If you do, you need to modify the styles you use to have the spacing that
you like. And you need to save those changes to your Normal template. You
should undo the setting you have just made while you do that, so you can see
what you are doing.
See here: http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Word2008Issues.html#DoubleSpacing
Note: If you use Styles, Normal style is not the only one potentially
affected. In a default template, ALL styles inherit their settings from
Normal style, so usually changing Normal style fixes it. However, if you
have customised your styles (as you should!) then you may have to update
several of them to set the Space After property to what you want.
Similarly, if you use templates, Normal Template is not the only template
that can be affected.
But for most folks, the critical thing is to check the "Add to template"
checkbox so your changes are written back to the template. Otherwise, you
have to change every document you create.
The fix only affects NEW documents. You have to change existing documents
individually.
Hope this helps
On 11/06/08 9:57 AM, in article ee8c9...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"Cerulea...@officeformac.com" <Cerulea...@officeformac.com> wrote:
--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/
Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:jo...@mcghie.name
Clive Huggan
typewriters and it's time to stop emulating some of their crudities that end
up taking up so much time and making documents look like, well, typewriting.
Consistent with what John has been saying: consider the advantages of being
able to creep paragraphs closer together to get them all on the one page
when they are just that tiny bit too much for the page (or push them further
apart). Or having a heading glue itself to the paragraph below it, so you
don't have to put in a manual page break above a heading that's on the
bottom line of the page.
There are a dozen other advantages of using Word's styles as they were
designed: take a look at 'Some advantages of using styles' on page 91 of
some notes on the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your
Will", which are available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). You'll find
Appendix A: The main ģminimum maintenanceē features of my documents, on page
164, useful too.
[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.
Also: in Word 2008, which I don't use yet, some of this information be
accessible through a different interface, but that should only be a minor
inconvenience.]
Cheers,
Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================
On 11/6/08 6:47 PM, in article C475C748.15ECA%jo...@mcghie.name, "John
John McGhie
Ignore this Philistine!!!
I am sure you are above such disgusting behaviour as " creep paragraphs
closer together to get them all on the one page when they are just that tiny
bit too much for the page (or push them further apart)"
I mean, there are some sins that it's just not nice to talk about, right?
Mr. Huggan, this is a Family Newspaper, we prefer not to see such wanton
displays in here, thank you!!
Unless I do them, of course. Then it's all right... :-)
Cheers
On 12/06/08 9:09 AM, in article
C4769F53.38F85%REMOVETH...@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au, "Clive Huggan"
<REMOVETH...@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au> wrote:
--