Entourage 2008 - still no hyperlink?

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hous...@officeformac.com

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Jan 23, 2008, 12:15:43 PM1/23/08
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Where is the hyperlink button? I hope I just can't find it.

Since 2004 Entourage has been the ONLY email program to not include hyperlink. I was forced to use an external script or cut and paste from a word processing doc. For that reason alone I've been using Mac Mail.

It is hard for me to believe that in 2008 Entourage STILL doesn't support hyperlink. It is sooo 90's to be forced to include an entire URL in an email.

Unknown

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Jan 23, 2008, 12:31:53 PM1/23/08
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I was also hoping this was fixed in 2008. I tried different versions of email encoding but none of them seem to make hyperlinks appear as hyperlinks instead of just plain text.

Diane Ross

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Jan 23, 2008, 7:14:50 PM1/23/08
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On 1/23/08 9:15 AM, in article ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"hous...@officeformac.com" <hous...@officeformac.com> wrote:

This function is not available.

Personal comment: Not everyone likes HTML and we don't mind the entire URL
included. I had to change your message to plain text so I could read it. The
font was too small for me to read.

--
Diane, Microsoft Mac MVP (MVPs are not Microsoft Employees)
Entourage Help Page <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>

hous...@officeformac.com

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Jan 23, 2008, 8:03:14 PM1/23/08
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Hi Diane-
Sorry you had to change the message to plain text and bump up the font. I simply typed into the Mactopia message box and you got whatever the default is.

I guess there isn't much communication between Microsoft developers. Outlook has supported hyperlinks since the inception of XP (and possibly earlier?). Someone in Redmond must think it is a useful function. It would be nice to give the end-user, rather than the developer, the final decision whether to use it or not. I can't think of another email program that doesn't support hyperlinks.

Regardless, thanks for the reply.

bjoel...@gmail.com

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Jan 25, 2008, 2:22:05 AM1/25/08
to
Yeah - I just got Entourage 2008 after having switched back to Mail
several months ago. The first thing I googled after installing and not
seeing the hyperlink function anywhere, was this topic. My friend
who's a Windows platform developer for Microsoft always makes fun of
me for not being able to hyperlink in Entourage and uses it as extra
ammo for his 'PCs are superior' argument...lame!

Michel Bintener

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Jan 25, 2008, 2:56:27 AM1/25/08
to
No, unfortunately, that functionality is not built into Entourage 2008. What
you can do instead:

* compose those e-mail messages which need to include hyperlinks in Word
2008, then click on File>Send to>Mail Recipient (as HTML). Word allows you
to create hyperlinks rather easily, and they will be preserved in Entourage.

* google for Paul Berkowitz' free AppleScript Make Hyperlinks X, which
allows you to create hyperlinks in e-mail messages (read the included readme
fiel to find out how).

On 25/01/08 8:22, in article
0c901ef9-4f88-4ae9...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
"bjoel...@gmail.com" <bjoel...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP
Office:Mac (Entourage & Word)

*** Please always reply to the newsgroup. ***

Jolly Roger

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Jan 25, 2008, 11:15:10 AM1/25/08
to
In article
<0c901ef9-4f88-4ae9...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
bjoel...@gmail.com wrote:

If you paste any URL into the body of any plain text message, it already
*is* a hyperlink. What more do you need?

--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.

JR

Unknown

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Jan 29, 2008, 8:22:35 PM1/29/08
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I went to this site and attempted to download -

Paul Berkowitz' free AppleScript Make Hyperlinks X

Firefox went to redirected site and nothing got down load on to my desk top. Is there another side or product that will create hyperlinks? Not to beat a dead horse, but thi seems something that a mail program should have.

Diane Ross

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Jan 29, 2008, 10:12:16 PM1/29/08
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On 1/29/08 5:22 PM, in article ee8a...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Alan
Johnson " <> wrote:

> I went to this site and attempted to download -
> Paul Berkowitz' free AppleScript Make Hyperlinks X

What site? Did you try Scriptbuilders <http://scriptbuilders.net/>

<http://files.macscripter.net/ScriptBuilders/Entourage/makehyperlinksx_221.s
it>

>
> Firefox went to redirected site and nothing got down load on to my desk top.
> Is there another side or product that will create hyperlinks? Not to beat a
> dead horse, but thi seems something that a mail program should have.

You can also create hyperlinks in Word. Open Word 2004, compose your e-mail
with all the tools available in Word, and when you're done, click on
File>Send To>Mail Recipient (as HTML), and Word will send your current
document to Entourage.

The one big drawback to this method is that you cannot attach files to it
later on, and you cannot modify the text any longer, so if you need to make
additional changes, you will have to open the Word document again and repeat
the "Send to" procedure after you're done.

Other options:

Send Complex HTML with Inline Files 2004 by Rob Buckley.

<http://scriptbuilders.net/files/sendcomplexhtmlwithinlinefiles20040.4.1.htm
l>

Unknown

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Jan 30, 2008, 3:40:34 PM1/30/08
to
Are you kidding Me??

All these MS MVP and the reason given is it is not well received by users to have hyper links in emails?

So why does outlook have it and word and power point and EVERY other MS business application ?

that is a lame a$$ excude...why not be honest and say..uh we wanted to screw over mac users.

Look there is always allot of other apps for email and calendar integration.

What a waste of time and money but mostly the integrity of those who spew forth those ridicules reasons. LOL!!

I would point you to some examples...but I know you would rather I send it to you in a word doc.

LOL !!

Allen Watson

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Jan 30, 2008, 7:01:36 PM1/30/08
to
Matthew,

Microsoft MVPs are Mac _users_ like yourself. They are not employees of
Microsoft and have all the same difficulties using Office that you do! We're
just trying to help people make the best use of the software as it is
provided. So lay off the slanderous remarks about people's integrity!

Like Diane, I avoid HTML e-mail for many reasons (biggest one being that it
takes two or three times as much bandwidth and disk space for everyone who
receives it). Yet I admit that there are times it is the best option: when I
want to have a nicely formatted document with bold, italic, and headings, or
to include images, or need color-coded text (e.g. Sending program code). So
I absolutely agree that Entourage needs hyperlinks, and needs to be able to
compose complex HTML mail. Using Word is okay, but as has been pointed out,
if you want to add attachments or make edits later, you have problems.
Frankly, although I love Entourage, when I want to send HTML mail I use
another mail client to do it, and I CC myself so I have a record of it in
Entourage.

Allen Watson
Microsoft MVP for Entourage

iThomasM

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Feb 4, 2008, 12:09:01 PM2/4/08
to
I very much miss the ability to add hyperlinks. I know that some
don't like HTML messages, but that shouldn't be forced upon everyone
else.

I think the Entourage developers need to take a step back and consider
the marketplace. Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Eudora, Zimbra, Gmail,
Yahoo Mail, Hotmail and Outlook all add the ability to insert
hyperlinks. It's more uncommon to not have hyperlinks.

I did try and use the script mentioned above, but it doesn't seem to
work in the 2008 version of Entourage. It shows, but the links never
get added.

Maybe a solution would be to have an 'addon' or official script that
users that want hyperlink abilities can download and use.

Please, reconsider the hyperlink issue. It may even help increase the
number of Entourage users.

Corentin Cras-Méneur

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Feb 4, 2008, 12:15:23 PM2/4/08
to
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> If you paste any URL into the body of any plain text message, it already
> *is* a hyperlink. What more do you need?

From what I understand, what they want is something that woudl do the
equavalent of <a href="http://www.google.com">Search the Web</a>.

They don't want to paste a clickable link, they want to apply a link to
some text.

It's a non-issue for me because I really don't want to receive/send
fully formatted HTML e-mails. I use Plain Text every time I get a chance
(people have lousy tastes in fonts and backgrounds 99.99% of the time
:-> )
Having the link in the text is a much better solution (and safer) for
what I need.

The only options I can think of have already been mentioned in the
thread and they involve using Paul's script to send complex HTML.

Corentin


--
--- Mac:MS MVP http://www.cortig.net/wordpress/ ---
http://www.mvps.org - http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
MVPs are not MS employees - Les MVP ne travaillent pas pour MS
Remove "NoSpam" to e-mail me - Retirez "NoSpam" pour m'écrire

Jolly Roger

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Feb 4, 2008, 8:05:10 PM2/4/08
to
In article
<52d7c165-d5a2-4ba4...@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
iThomasM <itho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I very much miss the ability to add hyperlinks. I know that some
> don't like HTML messages, but that shouldn't be forced upon everyone
> else.

No, it is *YOU* who are forcing your HTML mail on the rest of us.

Plain text is the prefered method for emails by people who know the
internet. It is efficient, safe, virus-free, will be readable by any
mail client at the other end, doesn't impose your font, size, style
preferences on others, and has far smaller risk of being filtered out by
spam filters.

HTML messages are generally two to four times larger for the same
message than plain text equivalents. That means not only do they take
longer to transfer over the net, contributing to network congestion,
they also take up more disk space on your computer, on the recipient's
computer, and on every server they hit along the way!

With HTML messages, the people who receive the messages have little or
no control over the text font, size, and style. They must read th
message in whatever font, size, and style *you* set when you created the
message. Plain Text messages, on the other hand, display in whatever
font, size, and style the recipient wishes.

HTML email is dangerous because it may contain links to external sites
that will do malicious things. For instance, a spammer can include a
link to an image, but this link contains a tag as data. The server at
the other end will get that request when your *read your email* and
based on the tag, will be able to confirm that you've read the email and
not only flag your email address as active/good, but also use your IP
with geolocation servers to assign a location code so that they can then
sell your email address to other spammers along with your general
location. If everyone stopped sending HTML emails, everyone would block
it, and then spammers would be left with very few means to escape spam
filters because their messages would have to b simple and without tricks.

HTML email is wasteful, dangerous, and rude, IMO. It's just plain evil.

Diane Ross

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Feb 4, 2008, 8:49:03 PM2/4/08
to
On 2/4/08 9:09 AM, in article
52d7c165-d5a2-4ba4...@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com,
"iThomasM" <itho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please, reconsider the hyperlink issue. It may even help increase the
> number of Entourage users.

Send your feedback to MSFT. We're just users like you and can't do anything
about it.

Under Help in the Entourage menu bar select "Send Feedback on Entourage" to
request this feature, or
click on this direct link to enter Mac Product Feedback:

<http://www.microsoft.com/mac/default.aspx?pid=feedback>

Just don't send your HTML emails to me.

Unknown

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Feb 4, 2008, 8:50:03 PM2/4/08
to
You sound like a DOS dweeb who mistakenly bought a Mac. Ever hear of WYSIWYG?

With your Outlook on correspondence, I'd suggest buying a typewriter and a roll of postage stamps. Meanwhile, don't make excuses for Microsoft not giving the user (who paid hundreds of dollars for the privilege) the option to hyperlink.

Barry Wainwright

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Feb 5, 2008, 4:28:37 AM2/5/08
to
On 30/01/2008 20:40, in article ee8a...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Matthew"
<Matthew> wrote:

> why not be honest and say..uh we wanted to screw over mac users.

More honest is to say łit was not a priority for us˛.

There was a limited amount of time, a limited number of people and a limited
budget.

This release had an awful lot of work to do to convert the whole application
development environment to x-code, and then to make the apps Intel native.
Unfortunately that meant a lot of other stuff had to be cut.

Whilst making text-based hyperlinks is vital in a mail client for you (and
maybe half a dozen others), it isnąt for me or a lot of other people.
Decisions were made. The programme managers who made these decisions didnąt
make them on an arbitrary basis, but on the results of some fairly intensive
study on what was important to the majority of users.

Iąm sorry (for you) that hyperlinks didnąt make the cut, but please, why
does such a minor issue need to become a conspiracy theory? Why on earth
would a business unit that makes its living ONLY from producing mac software
want to 'screw over' mac users?


--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see <http://www.microsoft.com/mvp/> for details)
Visit the Entourage Userąs Weblog for Hints, tips and troubleshooting
information:
http://www.barryw.net/weblog/

Barry Wainwright

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Feb 5, 2008, 4:32:40 AM2/5/08
to
On 05/02/2008 01:50, in article ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"housewolf" <housewolf> wrote:

Thank you for your thoughtful, considered response.

Welcome to my killfile.

(this email sent in plain text only)


--
Barry Wainwright
Microsoft MVP (see <http://www.microsoft.com/mvp/> for details)

Visit the Entourage User零 Weblog for Hints, tips and troubleshooting
information:
http://www.barryw.net/weblog/

iThomasM

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Feb 5, 2008, 9:52:15 AM2/5/08
to
It's amazing how such a seemingly small feature brings out the worst
in everyone; customers and Microsoft MVP people. A lot of posts in
this thread are very negative, or at least their coming off that way.

I did put in my feedback on the official Microsoft site and am
constantly looking for a work around.

Has anyone gotten Make Hyperlinks X to work in Entourage 2008?

Unknown

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Feb 5, 2008, 10:05:53 AM2/5/08
to
Please Help. I use comcast for my email in Entourage. Can you tell me why I can no longer access my email when I go to Comcast.net?

Adam Bailey

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Feb 5, 2008, 10:19:27 AM2/5/08
to
Donna W <> wrote:
> Please Help. I use comcast for my email in Entourage. Can you tell me why
> I can no longer access my email when I go to Comcast.net?

First, please start a new thread with a new question. Yours did not address
hyperlinks.

To your question: more information is needd. When did it stop working? Did
you make any changes to your computer (such as installing a new Entourage or
something else)? What happens when you try? Do you get an error message?
What version of Entourage are you using? Is your Comcast account setup as a
POP3 or IMAP account? How are you connected to the Internet?

Instructions on configuring Entourage for Comcast email can be found at:

http://www.comcast.net/help/faq/index.jsp?faq=EmailEntourage_(Mac)17545
http://www.comcast.net/help/faq/index.jsp?faq=EmailEntourage_(Mac)17831

--
Adam Bailey | Chicago, Illinois
ad...@lull.org | Finger/Web for PGP & S/MIME
ada...@aol.com | http://www.lull.org/adam/

Jolly Roger

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Feb 5, 2008, 2:48:00 PM2/5/08
to
In article
<5f49b9ff-da28-4b30...@b2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
iThomasM <itho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's amazing how such a seemingly small feature brings out the worst
> in everyone; customers and Microsoft MVP people. A lot of posts in
> this thread are very negative, or at least their coming off that way.

HTML email has a tendency to aggravate those of us who know enough about
it to recognize it's shortcomings. The best way to fix that problem,
educate yourself about HTML email. It's likely once you do, you'll find
yourself using HTML email much less often, which will, in turn,
aggravate less people on the planet. ; )

> I did put in my feedback on the official Microsoft site and am
> constantly looking for a work around.
>
> Has anyone gotten Make Hyperlinks X to work in Entourage 2008?

Several here, including me, know AppleScript well. What happens when
you try to run it with 2008?

iThomasM

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Feb 5, 2008, 4:31:22 PM2/5/08
to
On Feb 5, 1:48 pm, Jolly Roger <jollyro...@pobox.com> wrote:
> In article
> <5f49b9ff-da28-4b30-ae61-4ca54a272...@b2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,

>
>
> HTML email has a tendency to aggravate those of us who know enough about
> it to recognize it's shortcomings. The best way to fix that problem,
> educate yourself about HTML email. It's likely once you do, you'll find
> yourself using HTML email much less often, which will, in turn,
> aggravate less people on the planet. ; )

I'm a web developer so not using HTML seems odd. But I am now much
more interested in looking into it. :)

>
>
> > Has anyone gotten Make Hyperlinks X to work in Entourage 2008?
>
> Several here, including me, know AppleScript well. What happens when
> you try to run it with 2008?

It acts as everything is working by asking me all the questions. But
when it's done, no links show up in the email. Maybe I just need to
read the instructions again.

>
> JR

Jolly Roger

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Feb 5, 2008, 4:37:01 PM2/5/08
to
In article
<3ee1b3d5-abdd-4adf...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
iThomasM <itho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 5, 1:48 pm, Jolly Roger <jollyro...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <5f49b9ff-da28-4b30-ae61-4ca54a272...@b2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > HTML email has a tendency to aggravate those of us who know enough about
> > it to recognize it's shortcomings. The best way to fix that problem,
> > educate yourself about HTML email. It's likely once you do, you'll find
> > yourself using HTML email much less often, which will, in turn,
> > aggravate less people on the planet. ; )
>
> I'm a web developer so not using HTML seems odd. But I am now much
> more interested in looking into it. :)

The shortcomings of HTML email far outweigh the benefits. In another
reply in this thread, I listed the major shortcomings - they are pretty
bad! All of them vanish when you use plain text instead.

> > > Has anyone gotten Make Hyperlinks X to work in Entourage 2008?
> >
> > Several here, including me, know AppleScript well. What happens when
> > you try to run it with 2008?
>
> It acts as everything is working by asking me all the questions. But
> when it's done, no links show up in the email. Maybe I just need to
> read the instructions again.

Unfortunately, my coupon-purchased upgrade of 2008 still hasn't arrived.
Microsoft has postponed it until sometime in the middle of this month.
So I can't test it here yet.

Diane Ross

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Feb 5, 2008, 5:10:39 PM2/5/08
to
On 2/5/08 7:05 AM, in article ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Donna W "
<> wrote:

> Please Help. I use comcast for my email in Entourage. Can you tell me why I
> can no longer access my email when I go to Comcast.net?

I'm a comcast user and have no problems. Accessing comcast.net problems
should be addressed with comcast support.

Gene Park

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Feb 5, 2008, 8:23:45 PM2/5/08
to
Obvious question. Have you contacted Comcast regarding this issue? Forget
the chat now as they are all thoroughly phuqued and the bloody thing can
lock up Safari making it necessary for a forced break. The last time I used
the chat now I was left hanging waiting for an answer, but the moron I was
dealing with probably decided he needed a wank and closed off.
Your best bet in dealing with Comcast it to try to get one of the techies on
the phone in Alberta where they do try to provide a semblance of customer
service.
Gene
Lake Oswego, OR

On 2/5/08 7:19 AM, in article slrnfqgvk2...@peregrinus.akb.lull.org,

Scott Santee

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Feb 6, 2008, 11:49:00 AM2/6/08
to
(I'm probably not the best person to post this since I'm quite unaware
of several things.)

I know several have clarified about Entourage *2008*.

For those users with 2004, if you type your email in Entourage (Word
not needed), and Save As Draft, you can see that it converts
http://www.something.com into a clickable link.

I also just tried sending a seemingly non-clickable "http://..." to
myself (without Saving As Draft) and it came back to me as a clickable
link.

The reason I'm hesitant to post this is because it might be a given
that you're talking about one of those clickable phrase like "click
here" where the actual link is "hidden" behind the text.

Or because I'm naively thinking that plain text emails requires you to
cut and paste the text of the link into your browser.

If I'm mistaken on these accounts (or something), feel free to delete
this post.

If not, then for 2004 users who would like to have a hyperlink within
an email, this gets you most of the way there quite easily.

Scott...

Art Shotwell

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Feb 6, 2008, 12:14:38 PM2/6/08
to
On 2/6/08 8:49 AM, in article
cc80a0fb-916d-49c5...@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, "Scott
Santee" <BrewerP...@gmail.com> wrote:

Scott, I'm no expert, but I think I've found that the email programs I've
used all will automatically create a link when they see a group of text that
starts with http:// in an incoming email. Art

Unknown

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Feb 6, 2008, 12:24:00 PM2/6/08
to
I am in the same boat: angry that MS refuses to produce a professional version of Entourage for Mac user. There are SOOOO many mandatory things missing from 2008. How about that even this forum does not have a section just for Entourage 2008? All the versions are packed into one area. Not helpful.

But most importantly someone PLEASE get Paul Berkowitz's HTML script to work in 2008.

Thank you.

Jolly Roger

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Feb 6, 2008, 12:48:36 PM2/6/08
to
In article <ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw>, lgphoto <> wrote:

> But most importantly someone PLEASE get Paul Berkowitz's HTML script to work
> in 2008.

Have you contacted Paul Berkowitz to ask him if he plans to update his
script for 2008?

Jolly Roger

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Feb 6, 2008, 12:50:20 PM2/6/08
to
In article
<cc80a0fb-916d-49c5...@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Scott Santee <BrewerP...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The reason I'm hesitant to post this is because it might be a given
> that you're talking about one of those clickable phrase like "click
> here" where the actual link is "hidden" behind the text.

Yep. They want to create HTML (not plain text) emails with hidden links
in them.

What they don't seem to understand is plain text is the preferred method

for emails by people who know the internet. It is efficient, safe,
virus-free, will be readable by any mail client at the other end,
doesn't impose your font, size, style preferences on others, and has far
smaller risk of being filtered out by spam filters.

HTML messages are generally two to four times larger for the same
message than plain text equivalents. That means not only do they take
longer to transfer over the net, contributing to network congestion,
they also take up more disk space on your computer, on the recipient's
computer, and on every server they hit along the way!

With HTML messages, the people who receive the messages have little or

no control over the text font, size, and style. They must read the

message in whatever font, size, and style *you* set when you created the
message. Plain Text messages, on the other hand, display in whatever
font, size, and style the recipient wishes.

HTML email is dangerous because it may contain links to external sites
that will do malicious things. For instance, a spammer can include a
link to an image, but this link contains a tag as data. The server at
the other end will get that request when your *read your email* and
based on the tag, will be able to confirm that you've read the email and
not only flag your email address as active/good, but also use your IP

with geographical location servers to assign a location code so that

they can then sell your email address to other spammers along with your
general location. If everyone stopped sending HTML emails, everyone
would block it, and then spammers would be left with very few means to
escape spam filters because their messages would have to b simple and
without tricks.

--

Jolly Roger

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Feb 6, 2008, 12:51:14 PM2/6/08
to
In article <C3CF2AFE.1BB6E%a...@nospam.artshotwell.com.invalid>,
Art Shotwell <a...@nospam.artshotwell.com.invalid> wrote:

> Scott, I'm no expert, but I think I've found that the email programs I've
> used all will automatically create a link when they see a group of text that
> starts with http:// in an incoming email. Art

Yes, in plain text messages and HTML messages. But the people bitching
about this want to be able to insert links where the URL is *hidden*
behind HTML text - just like links on a web page.

Unknown

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Feb 6, 2008, 1:36:36 PM2/6/08
to
I work for a company that monitors communication portals for firms with high level security issues. We scan something on the order of 20,000 emails a week. 65% contain HTML - and this is a user group that has been advised against using HTML.

Whether YOU like HTML is irrelevant, the large majority of people use it, apparently enjoy it, and EXPECT to be able to use it if they choose to.

Hyperlinking is a base level function on virtually every email program in the world including other Microsoft products. You cannot rationalize away the inability to hyperlink on a $300.00 plus "top end" office application. It was a cheap short cut or an oversight. Don't pretend it was purposefully omitted as a tool to educate the masses on the purported evils of HTML.

Jolly Roger

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Feb 6, 2008, 3:23:52 PM2/6/08
to
In article <ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw>, Housewolf <> wrote:

> I work for a company that monitors communication portals for firms with high
> level security issues. We scan something on the order of 20,000 emails a
> week. 65% contain HTML - and this is a user group that has been advised
> against using HTML.

People are largely ignorant of the dangers and pitfalls of HTML email,
so this does not surprise me one bit.

> Whether YOU like HTML is irrelevant, the large majority of people use it,
> apparently enjoy it, and EXPECT to be able to use it if they choose to.

It's not a matter of like or dislike.

The fact is HTML email is wasteful, dangerous, and borderline rude.



> Hyperlinking is a base level function on virtually every email program in the
> world including other Microsoft products. You cannot rationalize away the
> inability to hyperlink on a $300.00 plus "top end" office application. It was
> a cheap short cut or an oversight.

Agreed.

And I couldn't be happier that it doesn't work. I think less people
should use HTML email.

> Don't pretend it was purposefully omitted
> as a tool to educate the masses on the purported evils of HTML.

I never stated Microsoft purposefully omitted this functionality. That's
not going to stop me from educating people about the dangers of HTML
email.

Barry Wainwright

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Feb 6, 2008, 7:04:59 PM2/6/08
to
On 05/02/2008 21:31, in article
3ee1b3d5-abdd-4adf...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com,
"iThomasM" <itho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm a web developer so not using HTML seems odd. But I am now much
> more interested in looking into it. :)

HTML on the web is fine. In email, prefer to emphasise the content over the
presentation. There are very few messages that have content that is actually
enhanced by the use of HTML (although I do use it for sending formatted
script - a rare exception to the rule). For this reason, I prefer the use of
plain text wherever possible.

Art Shotwell

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Feb 6, 2008, 7:08:40 PM2/6/08
to
Plus, if the link is visible, you can copy & paste it into a browser URL
window. Art


On 2/6/08 9:50 AM, in article
jollyroger-FF87A...@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net, "Jolly

Barry Wainwright

unread,
Feb 6, 2008, 7:10:36 PM2/6/08
to
On 06/02/2008 16:49, in article

> The reason I'm hesitant to post this is because it might be a given
> that you're talking about one of those clickable phrase like "click
> here" where the actual link is "hidden" behind the text.
>
> Or because I'm naively thinking that plain text emails requires you to
> cut and paste the text of the link into your browser.

The general conversation (apart from some vituperative wanderings and one
hijacked sub-thread) were about the use of 'click here' type text links.

However, how a properly formatted URL is handled depends on the mail agent
used to view the message. If you format a link with the 'http://' protocol
prefix and enclose it in 'braces' like this:
<http://www.apple.com>
Then the vast majority of mail clients will allow the user to simply click
on it to open it in a browser. Entourage doesn't absolutely insist on the
braces, but may get confused over where multi-line URLs end if you don' use
them. Outlook will generally let you get away without the 'http://' prefix
if the link starts with 'www.', but this shouldn't be relied upon as it is
definitely non-standard behaviour.

Diane Ross

unread,
Feb 6, 2008, 9:34:11 PM2/6/08
to
On 2/6/08 4:10 PM, in article C3CFFCFC.40526%ba...@mvps.org.INVALID, "Barry
Wainwright" <ba...@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote:

> The general conversation (apart from some vituperative wanderings and one
> hijacked sub-thread) were about the use of 'click here' type text links.
>
> However, how a properly formatted URL is handled depends on the mail agent
> used to view the message. If you format a link with the 'http://' protocol
> prefix and enclose it in 'braces' like this:
> <http://www.apple.com>
> Then the vast majority of mail clients will allow the user to simply click
> on it to open it in a browser. Entourage doesn't absolutely insist on the
> braces, but may get confused over where multi-line URLs end if you don' use
> them. Outlook will generally let you get away without the 'http://' prefix
> if the link starts with 'www.', but this shouldn't be relied upon as it is
> definitely non-standard behaviour.

When you compose a message the links do not appear active, but they are.
Just save the message as a draft and you will then see the active links.

Enclose the URL with < and > viz: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/> so that
if the URL wraps over more than one line, it will still work when it gets
there. Don't forget to format with the http:// prefix.

See this article for some handy scripts to insert web urls into a message
along with creating URLs.

Insert URLs into a message (The Entourage Help Blog)
<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2007/07/insert_urls_into_a_message.html>

HTML Newsletters, Messages & Signatures

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq_topic/html_msg.html>

Dou...@officeformac.com

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Feb 7, 2008, 7:13:28 AM2/7/08
to
Thanks, Diane. It isn't a clean and complete solution but provides decent workarounds.

Other than that... C'mon people. The tired argument about whether the format for us computer geeks (plain text) or the format for the rest of us (HTML) belongs somewhere else. Most of us come here to find answers on how to do things and have no desire to deal with dissertations on your opinions. I'm looking for a way to embed hyperlinks easily for the benefit of a client, and I really hate wasting more time reading this garbage than getting the information I came here to get.

ps I'll keep my personal preference on this to myself, but FYI I use both formats depending on the situation.

Unknown

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Feb 7, 2008, 8:26:00 AM2/7/08
to
<Have you contacted Paul Berkowitz to ask him if he plans to update his script for 2008?>

Paul Berkowitz has not answered my email i sent him 4 days ago. Maybe he's busy working on a fix. Paul are you out there?????

Diane Ross

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Feb 7, 2008, 7:45:05 PM2/7/08
to
On 2/7/08 4:13 AM, in article ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"Dou...@officeformac.com" <Dou...@officeformac.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Diane. It isn't a clean and complete solution but provides decent
> workarounds.

Glad I could help.


>
> Other than that... C'mon people. The tired argument about whether the format
> for us computer geeks (plain text) or the format for the rest of us (HTML)
> belongs somewhere else. Most of us come here to find answers on how to do
> things and have no desire to deal with dissertations on your opinions. I'm
> looking for a way to embed hyperlinks easily for the benefit of a client, and
> I really hate wasting more time reading this garbage than getting the
> information I came here to get.

I agree we all tend to get defensive over certain issues. Plain text vs HTML
is one that seems to get most people very defensive.

I guess we've all received a few too many emails that have pink backgrounds
in font size 72 with tons of attachments. :-)

Unknown

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Feb 8, 2008, 10:19:04 AM2/8/08
to
So I've read through this thread and it seems you can't insert a link into an email signature in Entourage. I'm new to Mac having switched from PC so obviously this is all new to me.

I'm setting up from email accounts for my business and I'm extremely surprised to learn I can't offer an simple click through link to my firm's website.

I would suggest someone provide an update to alleviate this ridiculous omission.

If I can't use the email signature with a link, I'm going to have to use another email/calendar program. Any suggestions?

Am I missing something or is there a way to put an link in my email signature?

Adam Bailey

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Feb 8, 2008, 12:13:16 PM2/8/08
to
TD Lawlor <> wrote:
> So I've read through this thread and it seems you can't insert a link into
> an email signature in Entourage. I'm new to Mac having switched from PC so
> obviously this is all new to me.

That's not entirely true, you just have to include it as a URL. You can't
link text.

> I'm setting up from email accounts for my business and I'm extremely
> surprised to learn I can't offer an simple click through link to my firm's
> website.

Include your firm's web site URL. It's more memorable that way to begin
with.

> I would suggest someone provide an update to alleviate this ridiculous
> omission.

That someone would be Microsoft, and you're welcome to send feedback to them
via the Help menu in Entourage. Microsoft prioritizes features based on
feedback.

> If I can't use the email signature with a link, I'm going to have to use
> another email/calendar program. Any suggestions?

That seems ridiculous. I've been sending and receiving email in the
Fortune 500 corporate world for something like 8 years and I can count on
one hand the number of times per month I receive an email with linked text.
People use URLs.

> Am I missing something or is there a way to put an link in my email
> signature?

Use the URL.

Adam Bailey

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Feb 13, 2008, 12:47:10 PM2/13/08
to
Frosty <> wrote:
> In an environment where Entourage is meant to replace Outlook (for Mac
> users in an enterprise), using HTML emails (with linkable text) is an
> absolute requirement. Not having features like that force Mac users to use
> parallels and Outlook.

Everyone's situation is different, please stop presenting this as an
absolute. I don't know anyone who hyperlinks text in email in intra-business
email.

That doesn't mean that *you* don't, but it's not the rule. Personally I'm
ambivalent, I don't care if they add the feature or not.

Regardless, everyone who has an opinion on this subject needs to send
feedback to Microsoft via the Help menu. It isn't going to be decided here.

art...@officeformac.com

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Feb 19, 2008, 9:26:18 PM2/19/08
to
To me it is so simple. I just bought this product, and paid good $ for it. No where does it say that a common feature would be left out as a matter of "taste". "People like HTML, no wait a minute, people don't like HTML", etc. I want to fill up my huge hard drive with anything I want, and a feature that is "typical" should be there in a premium product. Frankly, I feel a bit offended when people defend bad decisions with that argument (People shouldn't use HTML), and, by implication, suggest that I can't decide for myself. I really don't care about this issue, probably, since I am so new I haven't run into it yet. I was only reading this thread to see how to reply, and more to the point, how do you start a new thread here?

regards, Arthur in Baton Rouge

Diane Ross

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Feb 19, 2008, 9:42:21 PM2/19/08
to
On 2/19/08 6:26 PM, in article ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"art...@officeformac.com" <art...@officeformac.com> wrote:

> To me it is so simple. I just bought this product, and paid good $ for it. No
> where does it say that a common feature would be left out as a matter of
> "taste".

You need to send your feedback to Microsoft. We can't do anything about what
features they include. Send Feedback to Microsoft under any Office
application's Help in the Menu bar.

> I was only reading this thread to see how to reply, and more to the
> point, how do you start a new thread here?

I don't use the web interface. You can subscribe to this newsgroup with the
Entourage newsreader. It's easy to use.

How to subscribe to the Microsoft Entourage newsgroup

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/support_options/subnews.html>

art...@officeformac.com

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Feb 19, 2008, 11:03:51 PM2/19/08
to
Thank you for your kind assistance about the newsgroup. However, I would not consider feedback to Microsoft as a worthwhile effort, because the issue has nothing to do with the feature, but instead has to do with the way they do business. Frankly, the same applies to Apple. So we customers just comment and move on. it's not personal. My comment was in the context of the discussion, and I will say I appreciate the effort you and the rest of the MVP people seem to put on these issues.

Fortunately, I solved my original problem on my own, and all is well.. for now.

Regards, Arthur in Baton Rouge

Adam Bailey

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Feb 20, 2008, 6:33:48 AM2/20/08
to
art...@officeformac.com <art...@officeformac.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your kind assistance about the newsgroup. However, I would
> not consider feedback to Microsoft as a worthwhile effort, because the
> issue has nothing to do with the feature, but instead has to do with the
> way they do business.

You're being unreasonable. Either make the suggestion or let it go.

We've seen the impact feedback makes on Entourage by seeing much-requested
features offered.

Jolly Roger

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Feb 20, 2008, 7:04:40 AM2/20/08
to
In article <ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw>,
art...@officeformac.com wrote:

> I want to fill up my huge hard drive with anything I want

Yes, and who cares about clogging the net with HTML messages, or filling
up other people's hard drives with your large messages, not to mention
denying other's the ability to read your messages in their own preferred
font and size! Who do these other people think they are, anyway?!

Jolly Roger

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Feb 20, 2008, 7:08:19 AM2/20/08
to
In article <ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw>,
art...@officeformac.com wrote:

> Frankly, I feel a bit offended when people defend bad decisions with that
> argument (People shouldn't use HTML), and, by implication, suggest that I
> can't decide for myself. I really don't care about this issue, probably,
> since I am so new I haven't run into it yet.

The issues have been explained to you in depth. So you don't get to get
off easy and claim ignorance. It's obvious you don't care because you
don't think the issues are important. You're entitled to do what you
wish - but don't try to hide behind the "ignorance" badge. Man up.

art...@officeformac.com

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Feb 20, 2008, 2:35:16 PM2/20/08
to
Jolly, you take all this too seriously. The clear issue I was referring to, tongue in cheek, was the denial of a potentially useful feature to all customers because of the perception that the use of HTML can't be justified.. Why not just outlaw HTML?

The explanations do not satisfy me with regard to that issue. So that's the deal. As I said, move on.

Had both you and Adam quoted my entire post, the context may have seemed less severe than he took it. I'm moving on, if that's OK, and I repeat, it's not personal.

iThomasM

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Feb 21, 2008, 11:44:38 PM2/21/08
to
On Feb 4, 7:05 pm, Jolly Roger <jollyro...@pobox.com> wrote:
> In article
> <52d7c165-d5a2-4ba4-97cb-be7c05690...@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> iThomasM <ithom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I very much miss the ability to add hyperlinks. I know that some
> > don't like HTML messages, but that shouldn't be forced upon everyone
> > else.
>
> No, it is *YOU* who are forcing your HTML mail on the rest of us.

Entourage creates email in HTML as the default. So it's not really
me, but Entourage. Plus, I'm not sure about Entourage, but
Thunderbird would allow a message to be send in HTML and plain text.
That way, if someone on the receiving end didn't accept HTML messages,
they'd get the nice plain text version. Wouldn't we both win
then? :)

>
> Plain text is the prefered method for emails by people who know the


> internet. It is efficient, safe, virus-free, will be readable by any
> mail client at the other end, doesn't impose your font, size, style
> preferences on others, and has far smaller risk of being filtered out by
> spam filters.

Perfered method buy people that know the internet? I think that's a
stretch as I don't remember getting a vote. But I agree that there
are some advantages. I think if people are sending crazy fonts and
sizes, then they are not in a business setting. Or they need some
best practices guidelines.

>
> HTML messages are generally two to four times larger for the same
> message than plain text equivalents. That means not only do they take
> longer to transfer over the net, contributing to network congestion,
> they also take up more disk space on your computer, on the recipient's
> computer, and on every server they hit along the way!

Size is hardly an issue here. Unless someone is cramming HTML
messages full of funky junk, they are not that much larger. Ok 1k to
4k, that's bigger, but that's still 4k. Put one Microsoft Excel
document on there and it'll balloon up much faster. Have you ever
seen an Excel document go from 100k to 4MB? I see it way to often.
But that's another fun topic.

>
> With HTML messages, the people who receive the messages have little or
> no control over the text font, size, and style. They must read th

> message in whatever font, size, and style *you* set when you created the
> message. Plain Text messages, on the other hand, display in whatever
> font, size, and style the recipient wishes.

Some email clients can override font settings on HTML messages. Not
sure about Entourage though. Or, as stated before, some you can
accept just the plain text version.

>
> HTML email is dangerous because it may contain links to external sites
> that will do malicious things. For instance, a spammer can include a
> link to an image, but this link contains a tag as data. The server at
> the other end will get that request when your *read your email* and
> based on the tag, will be able to confirm that you've read the email and
> not only flag your email address as active/good, but also use your IP

> with geolocation servers to assign a location code so that they can then


> sell your email address to other spammers along with your general
> location. If everyone stopped sending HTML emails, everyone would block
> it, and then spammers would be left with very few means to escape spam
> filters because their messages would have to b simple and without tricks.

First off, if you are automatically loading images on every email you
get, then you are asking for trouble. By default, Entourage, or most
any email clients, don't load images unless you hit a button to allow
them to load. If you allow all images by default, or just clicking on
the 'allow' link no matter what, then it's your own fault for loading
images in a message that is from some Bob in the UK who says you won
like 4million dollars.

Second, if we all stopped using HTML emails, then spammers would find
another way. They are quite the resourceful bastards.

>
> HTML email is wasteful, dangerous, and rude, IMO. It's just plain evil.

I'm not quite sure who sent you all this crap email, but you do make
some good points. I don't want to send ugly, font ridden, big ass
emails, I just want to do some bolding, add some links to keyword
phrases for reference and be happy. Plain text is very restricting
and Entourage already gives us most HTML features, and defaults to
HTML formatting, why can't they just add the ability to link?

Jr you are entitled to your own opinion and I do respect that. But
there are more than one side to this issue. I don't mean to argue,
just try to shed some light on things from my side of the issue. :)

Jolly Roger

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Feb 21, 2008, 11:47:34 PM2/21/08
to
In article <ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw>,
art...@officeformac.com wrote:

> Jolly, you take all this too seriously. The clear issue I was referring to,
> tongue in cheek, was the denial of a potentially useful feature to all
> customers because of the perception that the use of HTML can't be justified..
> Why not just outlaw HTML?

You make it sound like Microsoft is justifying the omission of this
functionality by stating HTML email shouldn't be used. That's not the
case. I certainly don't speak for Microsoft, and I doubt you will find
Microsoft making such statements, because they know some of their
customers want it.

> The explanations do not satisfy me with regard to that issue. So that's the
> deal. As I said, move on.

Ok. You first. : )

> Had both you and Adam quoted my entire post, the context may have seemed less
> severe than he took it. I'm moving on, if that's OK, and I repeat, it's not
> personal.

Same here. : )

Unknown

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Feb 22, 2008, 3:06:13 PM2/22/08
to
Actually, JR, seems to me that the whole thing has gotten out of hand. Isn't the original complaint that hyperlinks cannot be "renamed" or something like that?

As to any comments I was making about the reasons such a feature was-was not available, was more in reaction to some of the language being used by posters farther up the line.

I actually use text, not HTML as a matter of routine, and when I use a hyperlink, in text or HTML, I use it as it is. In 20-20 hind sight, I think this entire thread should be taught in "internet communications" school as an example of how things spin out of control.

I am a member of many forums (mostly car related, you can imagine how passionate people are there!), and I always have to be so careful about how what I THINK I am saying will be perceived. As to this thread, this was my first exposure to this newsgroup, on the first night I had Entourage, and I sort of stepped into a Hornet's nest.

Save me the trouble of re-reading all this again. The real issue was about the presentation of a hyperlink, not any real difference in capability. Is that correct.

I get a hundred emails a day at work (in fact I am a, back from retirement, consultant about the legal consequences of certain documentation practices, of which email is one type), and my pet peeve is the emails that have stylized paper, sometimes to the point that the font is almost unreadable. But it isn't worth all this fuss and hurt feelings, and if I am right about the original dispute on this thread, it isn't either.

So, if I was too forceful with anyone, please accept my apology, and my assurance that it wasn't meant to sound that way when I wrote it.

I think I'll save this one for my next staff meeting about emails and mistaken meanings.

Regards, Art in baton Rouge,

PS.. I am generally VERY happy with Office 2008, Entourage in particular. I am sure I will have a couple questions, but the product so far seems to definitely live up to the good press it has received.

PS2-I forgot my password momentarily, so this will appear anonymous. it just gets better and better.

byrn...@gmail.com

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Mar 2, 2008, 2:39:04 AM3/2/08
to
Lots of discussion here about the weight and evil of html email.
Personally I've always used text-only mail for all the classic
reasons. However currently I find myself working in a PC environment
in which our office uses a standardized html signature, which includes
an in-line, colored link (i.e. "Click _here_ to receive our news").
Sometimes there is an image tagged on at the bottom of the signature
as well.

What I'm trying to say here is that sometimes the user doesn't have
the choice about text-versus-html mail as corporate themes are
imposed. I totally agree with a previous poster that the choice should
be the user's, not the developer's. Entourage has all the bells and
whistles to format the rest of a message in html, why not include the
inline hyperlink option as well ? Seems silly not too, really. Just
install the feature in an upgrade and be done with it.

Diane Ross

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Mar 2, 2008, 4:57:12 AM3/2/08
to
On 3/1/08 11:39 PM, in article
0174924c-93eb-4979...@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
"byrn...@gmail.com" <byrn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What I'm trying to say here is that sometimes the user doesn't have
> the choice about text-versus-html mail as corporate themes are
> imposed. I totally agree with a previous poster that the choice should
> be the user's, not the developer's. Entourage has all the bells and
> whistles to format the rest of a message in html, why not include the
> inline hyperlink option as well ? Seems silly not too, really. Just
> install the feature in an upgrade and be done with it.

You can use the templates MSFT provides to achieve this. See example:

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq_topic/html_msg.html#sigs>

The link to " Personalize e-mail messages with signatures and backgrounds"
is currently broken.

<http://www.microsoft.com/mac/help.mspx?app=2>

Peter Connolly

unread,
Jun 11, 2008, 9:25:04 PM6/11/08
to
When my company first moved its office from PC to Mac the single most asked question of our support staff over the first 3 weeks from the CEO down to the weekend receptionist was, "what's happened to the hypertext link I'm trying to put in my email. It's not working."

Each of these people had to be taken through the exercised of sending and email containing a link to themselves to convince them it was really working.

Every other email client and document authoring program I know of provides visual feedback to the user when they create a hyperlink including other Microsoft Mac products where the feature is used considerably less. That such a basic feature is missing from Entourage is simply inexcusable and a waste of considerable help desk time for business users.

PC

Sam Brown

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Jun 12, 2008, 2:50:55 PM6/12/08
to
Thanks Peter. I love hearing that from somebody else. That such a basic
feature is missing is inexcusable. I did my own tests sending but I
don't like the way the hyperlinks come out on the other end.

I took one of the MVP's advice and tried Mozilla Thunderbird. It seems
to work just as well as Entourage mail, has great IMAP support and I
like the way it displays newsgroup threads better.

t...@officeformac.com

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Jun 24, 2008, 3:22:07 AM6/24/08
to
> * compose those e-mail messages which need to include hyperlinks in Word
> 2008, then click on File>Send to>Mail Recipient (as HTML). Word allows you
> to create hyperlinks rather easily, and they will be preserved in Entourage.

That's why it's so surprising that Entourage doesn't support it - the fact that Word does, as does Excel and PowerPoint. If it's bad form to use hyperlinks in email, then the same should be true of other document types. I suppose what I'm saying is consistency would be nice.

I'll have to let my users know. One of the reasons we're going to Office 2008 is because we're going to Office 2007 on Windows, to leverage the enhanced editing features in Outlook 2007 when the full Office suite is installed instead of just Outlook on its own. The irony.

Dou...@officeformac.com

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Jun 24, 2008, 8:42:18 AM6/24/08
to
> * compose those e-mail messages which need to include hyperlinks in Word
> 2008, then click on File>Send to>Mail Recipient (as HTML). Word allows you
> to create hyperlinks rather easily, and they will be preserved in Entourage.

This sounds helpful BUT...

Where does one find File>SendTo>MailRecipient(asHTML)?

The only option I find on the File menu is Fie>SendTo>MailRecipient(AsAttachment)

Michel Bintener

unread,
Jun 24, 2008, 10:18:57 AM6/24/08
to
On 24/06/08 14:42, in article ee8a2...@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"Dou...@officeformac.com" <Dou...@officeformac.com> wrote:

This option is only available if Entourage is set as your default e-mail
client. Once you've changed that setting, you may have to quit and restart
Word to see the menu entry.

--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP
Office:mac (Entourage & Word)

*** Please always reply to the newsgroup. ***

sa.c...@gmail.com

unread,
Jun 28, 2008, 12:38:03 PM6/28/08