Microsoft is running very unfair policy here in India. In India no computer
educational institute is teaching visual FoxPro, that's why FoxPro
programming is not a trend here any more. Every new programmer is learning
visual basic.
Microsoft seems like playing game with FoxPro programmers. In fact, I
think Microsoft don't want to spent much of its money in development of
Visual FoxPro and they want to make Visual Basic as standard front end
application for their database products and use SQL for RDBMS and ACCESS for
DBMS as well as office tools.
No step is taken by Microsoft to promote it visual FoxPro product.
I am a Visual FoxPro 6 programmer and running my own consultancy service in
BOMBAY-INDIA. As business has grown I am feeling need of visual FoxPro
programmer, but you will be surprised in the country like India where there
is mess of programmers I hardly found 1 - 2 visual FoxPro programmer.
So the FoxPro Fans like me have to shift there platform to VISUAL BASIC in
order to survive.
SO NOW I AM CHANGING MY PLATFORM FROM VISUAL FoxPro TO VISUAL BASIC.
SO NEXT TIME YOU MAY FIND ME ON VISUAL BASIC NEWS GROUP.
DO SOMETHING - I AM WITH YOU.
Mahinder Dangwani
MD-INDIA.
begin 666 MAHINDER S DANGWANI.vcf
<encoded_portion_removed>
end
I hate to think that Visual Fox Pro will meet an untimely death.
Is it a probable possibility that Microsoft will ultimately save it by
making it similar to VB, positioning to be another front end to MSSQL?
Alex
In article <800418$bt3$2...@news.vsnl.net.in>,
--
Alex
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Costas
Alex Dizon <alex...@my-deja.com> wrote:
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.com/foxpro
Mahinder Dangwani <md...@bom3.vsnl.net.in> wrote in message
news:800418$bt3$2...@news.vsnl.net.in...
In today's world, if you don't advertise, people will not use your product.
Microsoft has been releasing software in version over the years with lots of
advertisement & insentives for other software like VB, SQL-Server even
thought they don't match to the current industry ( Competitor ) features.
Why it is not done for VFP even thought it is a better product for database
development ?
Rakesh Kothari
Craig Berntson wrote in message ...
This has nothing to do with Microsoft. They don't control the schools or
what they teach.
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.com/foxpro
>This has nothing to do with Microsoft. They don't control the schools or
>what they teach.
Hi Craig,
They do in a way. I know firsthand that selected products are promoted
by MS people in schools. (discounts, support things like that ) They
would be very stupid not to do so.... Product awareness starts in
schools.
Best regards
JML
Alex Dizon <alex...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7vvfkc$821$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
|
|
| I hate to think that Visual Fox Pro will meet an untimely death.
| Is it a probable possibility that Microsoft will ultimately save it by
| making it similar to VB, positioning to be another front end to MSSQL?
|
| Alex
|
|
| In article <800418$bt3$2...@news.vsnl.net.in>,
| "Mahinder Dangwani" <md...@bom3.vsnl.net.in> wrote:
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.com/foxpro
Rakesh Kothari <max...@blr.vsnl.net.in> wrote in message
news:ejA4NLBK$GA....@cppssbbsa02.microsoft.com...
> It has everyting to do with Microsoft.
>
> In today's world, if you don't advertise, people will not use your
product.
> Microsoft has been releasing software in version over the years with lots
of
> advertisement & insentives for other software like VB, SQL-Server even
> thought they don't match to the current industry ( Competitor ) features.
>
> Why it is not done for VFP even thought it is a better product for
database
> development ?
>
> Rakesh Kothari
>
>
> Craig Berntson wrote in message ...
> This has nothing to do with Microsoft. They don't control the schools or
> what they teach.
>
> --
>
> Craig Berntson
> Microsoft FoxPro MVP
> Salt Lake City Fox User Group
> http://members.home.com/foxpro
>
>
> Mahinder Dangwani <md...@bom3.vsnl.net.in> wrote in message
> news:800418$bt3$2...@news.vsnl.net.in...
The fact is that schools are in the business to train people. One of the
ways to measure the success of the school is the percentage of graduates
that get hired. Truth is, there are more jobs for VB developers than for
VFP, hence the percentage goes up.
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.com/foxpro
Jean-Marie Laeremans <laeremans...@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:mf0jOGbgv30rHfYkXzho=IYY...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:10:18 -0700, "Craig Berntson" <fox...@home.com>
> wrote:
>
> >This has nothing to do with Microsoft. They don't control the schools or
> >what they teach.
>
>
What qualifications do you have to comment on conditions in India ?
I think even you would have to admit that if Microsoft were serious about
promoting
Foxpro as a front line product they have the means to do it, but they lack
the desire.
In Australia you never hear of Foxpro and the local Microsoft staff can't
even spell it much less support it.
Regards
Al
Craig Berntson <fox...@home.com> wrote in message
news:O3IWoAMK$GA.254@cppssbbsa05...
>You can get the same educational discount for VFP that you can for VB.
>Pricing is not an issue.
>
>The fact is that schools are in the business to train people. One of the
>ways to measure the success of the school is the percentage of graduates
>that get hired. Truth is, there are more jobs for VB developers than for
>VFP, hence the percentage goes up.
>
>--
>
>Craig Berntson
>Microsoft FoxPro MVP
>Salt Lake City Fox User Group
>http://members.home.com/foxpro
>
>VFP does get advertising. I guess you haven't looked in the right places.
--
Craig Berntson
>Jean-Marie Laeremans <laeremans...@skynet.be> wrote in message
There is not a single Ad. that says ' Use VFP / SQL-Server for Client -
Server development ' where as VB/SQL-Server is ad. everywhere.
People are not able to associated VFP for a specific thing. It's not the
job of training institutes to promote VFP. It's Microsoft's job if its
interested.
At the same time one need not complain always. Make your money with VFP or
choose something else.
Rakesh Kothari
Craig Berntson wrote in message ...
VFP does get advertising. I guess you haven't looked in the right places.
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.com/foxpro
Rakesh Kothari <max...@blr.vsnl.net.in> wrote in message
news:ejA4NLBK$GA....@cppssbbsa02.microsoft.com...
> It has everyting to do with Microsoft.
>
> In today's world, if you don't advertise, people will not use your
product.
> Microsoft has been releasing software in version over the years with lots
of
> advertisement & insentives for other software like VB, SQL-Server even
> thought they don't match to the current industry ( Competitor ) features.
>
> Why it is not done for VFP even thought it is a better product for
database
> development ?
>
> Rakesh Kothari
>
>
> Craig Berntson wrote in message ...
> This has nothing to do with Microsoft. They don't control the schools or
> what they teach.
>
> --
>
> Craig Berntson
> Microsoft FoxPro MVP
> Salt Lake City Fox User Group
> http://members.home.com/foxpro
>
>
Not at all. I'm stating the facts
>
> What qualifications do you have to comment on conditions in India ?
None at all, but MS does NOT tell schools what to teach and what not to
teach, no matter where they are.
>
> I think even you would have to admit that if Microsoft were serious about
> promoting
> Foxpro as a front line product they have the means to do it, but they
lack
> the desire.
How do you determine that? By the fact they *you* don't see any advertising
for it? I've seen it in mainstream magazines such as PCWeek, InfoWorld, etc.
>
> In Australia you never hear of Foxpro and the local Microsoft staff can't
> even spell it much less support it.
That's a problem with MS Australia not listening to MS Corporate. And, it's
interesting you should say that. I suggest you drop over to the Universal
Thread and check out the number of people from Australia. There seems to be
quite a few for a country that's never heard of it.
Allow me to quote from the VFP ad in the Programmer's Paradise catalog that
I received in the mail yesterday:
"Build state-of-the art desktop, client/server and Web database applications
with Microsoft Visual FoxPro 6.0 database development system. Write
data-intensive components that can be used in distributed solutions. Build
object-oriented applications with reusable code libraries."
And, guess what...the VB ad says nothing about C/S.
>
> People are not able to associated VFP for a specific thing. It's not the
> job of training institutes to promote VFP. It's Microsoft's job if its
> interested.
I agree, but MS is not in the training business. And MS does promote VFP.
I've seen the ads in magazines like PC Week, InfoWorld and even in Visual
Basic Programmer's Journal.
>
> At the same time one need not complain always. Make your money with VFP
or
> choose something else.
I agree.
>
> Rakesh Kothari
The best way to continue in VFP is to take freshers who has a logical mind
and who has a background
in Object - Oriented programming . You will see that they do really well.
VFP is a great product excepting for exceptional bugs . Its a rich language
and the only way to stop
Microsoft's VB advisors giving "rich" advices to warm their seats is to be
determined and use
VFP - Its not a difficult thing to learn. (see their VB advisors monopoly
getting truncated in the long run.)
Regards,
Alexander John
Mahinder Dangwani wrote in message <800418$bt3$2...@news.vsnl.net.in>...
Mahinder Dangwani <md...@bom3.vsnl.net.in> wrote in message
news:800418$bt3$2...@news.vsnl.net.in...
I wish they would choose one - and make it a good product!
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.com/foxpro
MPL <Reba...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OkI#BXjK$GA...@cppssbbsa02.microsoft.com...
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.com/foxpro
Jerry Richards <r2...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:N6JV3.1252$Vg6....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
Rick
What can VFP do that VB and Access can't?
What can VB do that VFP and Access can't?
What can Access do that VFP and VB can't?
Budoi
Rick Bean <rgb...@NOSPAMmelange-inc.com> wrote in message
news:OX83IwkK$GA.204@cppssbbsa04...
> If you need more support for VFP in India, contact the MS office there. If
> they need help or more information, they should contact Robert Green
> (rgr...@microsoft.com).
If MS really "loves" VFP, then the support (I'm not just talking about support
that you get over the phone from a TechSup guy, but in broader terms) should be
proactive.
> VFP will never get the same attention and
> advertising that VB gets, but VFP *DOES* get some.
That exactly his point, let me quote once again what he wrote:
> MPL <Reba...@email.msn.com> wrote in message:
>
> ......... I do feel that some times, with all dur respect
> to CB, he overlooks the obvious (that MS is not doing
> as much for VFP than its other products namely VB and Access).
>
If VFP got equal support from MS, we should not been having this discussion few
times a year for the last 3 years. Everytime, somebody raise "the future of fox"
issue, bunch of us (including me) jump into opinion wrestling. But the fact is
VFP popularity is not improved as fast as other (VB, Access, PB, Delphi, which
were born much later). Is VFP is dying? I don't think so, and I HOPE NOT.
When a new pro programmer just about to born, they will search what skill is the
most marketable (and highly valued $$). Just for illustration, I did some quick
search on careermosaic. VFP/Foxpro return 46 entry, while VB 370, PB 141, Access
over 500, Delphi 59 (Oracle over 500, DB2 317). Read somewhere before that PB
median pays is higher than VFP. What does this fact contribute to the prospect
of foxpro popularity?
Foxpro fate almost the same with apple macintosh. Great product, fanatics users.
Both heading to same direction, niche market! (unless MS doing something).
my two cent
Cheers.
farid maruf
------------
No other software contribute more to my life than Foxpro
>Then the questions would be:
>
>What can VFP do that VB and Access can't?
>What can VB do that VFP and Access can't?
>What can Access do that VFP and VB can't?
>
I know it may sound flippant but - from what I have observed from most
programmers with average knowledge and ability, when solving an
average data centric problem - the answer to all three questions is
-- "not a lot". There are knee jerk answers given by the fanatics of
any one particular platform which - under scrutiny - in these days of
COM are sometimes outdated and often simply wrong. Their answers are
not about the strengths of their particular favourite but are more
about supposed weaknesses of others. We are well on the road to
convergence in platform functionality (and even in language structure)
- worrying about what the other does not seem to do may be wasteful in
energy (since what is not here today may well be included tomorrow).
This is not to say that an expert in any particular platform can not
go off in a direction which plays on the strengths of that environment
and do a job which they would find difficult if they were less than an
expert on another platform. At least it would be difficult if they
demanded that the other platform produce the same kind of solution
written in the same way, with the same programming structure and
command set.
I suppose I am happy to use and be paid for using any of these
platforms (and others) but I will admit - when it is Access my smile
is a little forced <g> (and there are of course end user license
issues which can mean that this particular one is a non starter).
Still, even with Access - there have been some incredible things done
with it. The best examples are much, much better than average
solutions in VB or VFP, but then the reverse is true for the best
examples of VB and VFP compared to average examples of Access.
The VFP Certification Exams go into beta next week. I can tell you that MS
has spent well over $100,000 US getting these exams ready. That sounds like
commitment to me.
As for marketing, VFP will never get the marketing that VB has. Live with
it. That's the way it is. But to make a blanket statement that VFP gets no
marketing, as some people have said in this thread, is absolutely wrong. If
you were using VJ++, you'd be saying the same thing you are now...no
marketing. There are other MS products that I could use as examples that
also don't get lots of marketing.
I can tell you that I've sat in the same room as Bill Gates and heard him
say that FoxPro is important to Microsoft. That doesn't mean they will
promote it the same as other products, but can...and do promote it.
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.com/foxpro
Farid Maruf <faridm12...@skytel.co.id> wrote in message
news:38279BF1...@skytel.co.id...
Craig:
With all due respect, Microsoft probably spends $100,000 a day catering in
lunches. I think Microsoft's commitment to Foxpro is more to keep the VFP
community happy. I really think VFP is a much better and a much more
flexible language than VB/Access, etc. I know thay are working on Version 7
and will probably work on Version 8. I just have a feeling that Microsoft
will let the market kill VFP. That way they don't have to. This is why they
are not marketing it.
Just my 2 cents.
Mike
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.com/foxpro
Michael Dreyer <mdr...@enteract.com> wrote in message
news:80g12h$mj9$1...@eve.enteract.com...
>I don't think so. The best thing that ever happened to VFP was putting it in
>Visual Studio. According to several people I've talked to at MS, the number
>of people using VFP is actually increasing. The number of people on the Fox
>development team is higher now than the beginning of the year. This is all
>good.
IMO , VFP isn't part of Visual Studio, it just happens to be
distributed with it the same as explorer or HTML Help. I have just
been looked into using the Visual Studio Installer which really
highlights this fact - VFP is mentioned only once in the docs - in the
copyright notice, if you try to add a VFP.pjx project file to your
installer project (or anywhere in VS as far as I can tell) you can't
because 'The selected file is not a valid Visual Studio project file.'
And yes distributing VFP with VS was the best thing for VFP - if they
didn't, nobody would know about it - the one and only only reason that
I went with VFP for the current project was because I already had it
(with VS).
Gee, I guess someone should tell Microsoft that VFP isn't part of Visual
Studio. Funny how I have it in several copies. As for project files...you
can use VS Installer for VFP..you just have to do somethings manually. IMO,
VFP project & UI is much better and more productive than the standard
developer interface in Visual Studio.
Mohinder
Carlos Alejandro Pérez <log...@chaco.lared.com.ar> wrote in message
news:#02g1#tL$GA.241@cppssbbsa04...