FoxPro vs "xBase"?
Neil Weicher
example, a lot of business users of FoxPro programs know that they use
FoxPr. But would they know what you meant if you said xBase?
Just looking for opinions.
Thanks.
Neil
Rick Bean
My experience would suggest "no", but this gives me the opportunity to
educate my customers (and potential customers). Note: Even programmers (and
magazine editors) can't agree whether it should be xBase, xBASE or Xbase - I
usually refer to it as xBASE in the same format that Ashton-Tate / Borland
referred to their product as dBASE.
Rick
Neil Weicher <ne...@netlib.com> wrote in message
news:377a3a0f....@msnews.microsoft.com...
Thomas Whiteley
being due to AshtonTate's frequent law suits against any reference to
their product, dbase. Ashton Tate even sued the IEEE, when it said it was
going to establish a standard dBase reference committee. People in the
industry were "gun shy", and the term xBase came into use. It is a term I
dislike, and it would take time to explain to a customer just what it
meant. When Ahston Tate sued FoxPro, that was close to home, as I had
given up ot Ashton Tate and it's dBase IV product, and had been using
FoxPro since 1987. When Borland bought Ashton Tate, it also did the
development world a great service, and dropped all remaining law suites
filed by Ashton Tate. I could write a book on how Ashton Tate treated
the development community, and it's third party providers. The last law
suite Ashton Tate was involved in was very enlightening. The judge ruled
since dBase (Vulcan, written by Jeb Long at the Pasadena Jet Propulsion
Laboratory, as a main frame football betting pool application, later
converted to the S-100 CPU and CPM operating system, and later sold to
Ashton Tate) was developed with taxpayer dollars, and therefore belonged
to the public domain. There are many "flavors" of xBase. I wish someone
would come up with a better term!
Tom
Daniel A. Thompson
I was interesting to recall the history of Fox Software when they first
came out with FoxBase. This latter became FoxBase + and included
the LAN version and later FoxBase Professional came out and was
latter rename FoxPro.
Interesting history isn't it.
dan
Thomas Whiteley
You bring back memories! I have an original sealed copy of FoxBase LAN. If
memory serves me correctly, it was purchased around 1986-87, and cost $795. Why
I did not use this copy excapes me, but I do not think I am about to implement
it at this time!
Tom
Brett Slattery
Thanks for the trip down flashback lane. Maybe you're just an xbase pack-rat
like me. I still have my first PC version of dBase II. It's only 32,000
bytes. My very first copy was for my CPM Xerox II system on an 8" floppy.
I wrote a stock simulation program with my 32K copy of dBase II and launched
it one night at 11:00pm. It took 12 hours to run. I was so excited about my
computer working while I was sleeping, I spent most of the night getting up
to see if it was still running. I got very little sleep that night. The next
day I almost fell off a telephone pole because I was so pre-occupied with
all the other things you could do with this machine. Borrowing from a
country western song, I'll sign off...
I was nerdy, when nerdy wasn't cool!
--
Brett Slattery
Slat...@ewol.com
Thomas Whiteley <twhi...@jps.net> wrote in message
news:377A9316...@jps.net...
Craig Berntson
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.net/foxpro
Neil Weicher <ne...@netlib.com> wrote in message
news:377a3a0f....@msnews.microsoft.com...
Anders Altberg
Thomas Whiteley <twhi...@jps.net> wrote in message
news:377A5344...@jps.net...
...
> Vulcan, written by Jeb Long
..
Eh?
-Anders
Anthony Shipley
>The next
>day I almost fell off a telephone pole because I was so pre-occupied with
>all the other things you could do with this machine.
Dare I ask _exactly_ what you were doing with it up a telephone pole?
Does make a good .sig though :-p
anthony shipley
<math> 2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2</math>
Daniel A. Thompson
I forgot to ask if anyone has heard what Dr. Dave Fullton is doing since
he left Microsoft?
dan
Thomas Whiteley wrote:
> A bit of history, in case you may not be aware. The term xBase came into
> being due to AshtonTate's frequent law suits against any reference to
> their product, dbase. Ashton Tate even sued the IEEE, when it said it was
> going to establish a standard dBase reference committee. People in the
> industry were "gun shy", and the term xBase came into use. It is a term I
> dislike, and it would take time to explain to a customer just what it
> meant. When Ahston Tate sued FoxPro, that was close to home, as I had
> given up ot Ashton Tate and it's dBase IV product, and had been using
> FoxPro since 1987. When Borland bought Ashton Tate, it also did the
> development world a great service, and dropped all remaining law suites
> filed by Ashton Tate. I could write a book on how Ashton Tate treated
> the development community, and it's third party providers. The last law
> suite Ashton Tate was involved in was very enlightening. The judge ruled
> since dBase (Vulcan, written by Jeb Long at the Pasadena Jet Propulsion
> Laboratory, as a main frame football betting pool application, later
> converted to the S-100 CPU and CPM operating system, and later sold to
> Ashton Tate) was developed with taxpayer dollars, and therefore belonged
> to the public domain. There are many "flavors" of xBase. I wish someone
> would come up with a better term!
>
> Tom
>
> Neil Weicher wrote:
>
Daniel A. Thompson
Would it be more correct to say Microsoft is moving away for FoxPro?
dan
Craig Berntson wrote:
> Microsoft is trying to move away from "xBase", as I think we should too.
>
> --
>
> Craig Berntson
> Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
> Salt Lake City Fox User Group
> http://members.home.net/foxpro
>
> Neil Weicher <ne...@netlib.com> wrote in message
> news:377a3a0f....@msnews.microsoft.com...
Thomas Whiteley
Laboratory Database Management and Information Retrieval System,
(JPLDIS), in Fortran. While working for Wayne Ratliff, Mr. Long
translated his program to run under the CPM operating system (the one
Bill Gates "borrowed a few ideas from, and called it MS-DOS"). That was
used with the S-100 bus computer, before IBM PC hit the market. The
name Vulcan came from a legal brief I read about the Ashton Tate law
suit. I would imagine Vulcan is easier to say than, Jet Propulsion
Laboratory Database Management and Information Retrieval System, or
JPLDIS.
Tom
Craig Berntson
Linking xBase and VFP together keeps it firmly rooted in the past rather
than emphasize current and even future features and capabilities.
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.net/foxpro
Daniel A. Thompson <dtho...@loderdrew.com> wrote in message
news:377BC0DC...@loderdrew.com...
Craig Berntson
Seattle area. If I remember correctly, primarily the Seattle Symphony.
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.net/foxpro
Daniel A. Thompson <dtho...@loderdrew.com> wrote in message
news:377BC11A...@loderdrew.com...
Craig Berntson
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.net/foxpro
Thomas Whiteley <twhi...@jps.net> wrote in message
news:377BC863...@jps.net...
Brett Slattery
Don't forget "Emerald Green". So where is Wayne today?
--
Brett Slattery
Slat...@ewol.com
Anders Altberg <anders....@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:1FUe3.1729$nZ5....@nntpserver.swip.net...
> As I remember, I've always seen Wayne Ratliff referrred to as the
originator
> of Vulcan-dBase.
> -Anders
Thomas Whiteley
and Wayne Ratliff went to Ashton Tate to sell the product. What a story! Jeb
Long is still involved with FoxPro,having published a number of books. Have you
seen Wayne Ratliff's name since the 1992 law suit?
Tom
Brett Slattery
Would you post, or let me post, the historical information you sent me about
your experiences with Ashton-Tate, Borland, etc. I think a lot of old-timers
here would enjoy it.
--
Brett Slattery
Slat...@ewol.com
Thomas Whiteley
book and copied all features and code from Gary's CPM product. If you owned
CPM, you got a copy of the book with the product. Remember hex 0005, 0100
0800? There were thirty two functions in CPM the developer had access to, to
do some really cool things.
Now tell me, who wrote PC DOS, and OS/2? Some of you might know!
Here in Silicon Valley, if you are real good and work 20 hours a day, seven
days a week, you might get a bowl of rice, if you are good! The "boss" gets
the rest!
Tom
Craig Berntson wrote:
> Nope. Bill Gates bought the rights to DOS.
>
> --
>
> Craig Berntson
> Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
> Salt Lake City Fox User Group
> http://members.home.net/foxpro
>
Anders Altberg
of Vulcan-dBase.
-Anders
Thomas Whiteley <twhi...@jps.net> wrote in message
Daniel A. Thompson
Excellcent point. Someone in the newgroup proposed a name change to
VFP ++.
dan
Craig Berntson wrote:
> In marketing, demos, samples, etc, Microsoft no longer uses the term xBase.
> Linking xBase and VFP together keeps it firmly rooted in the past rather
> than emphasize current and even future features and capabilities.
>
> --
>
> Craig Berntson
> Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
> Salt Lake City Fox User Group
> http://members.home.net/foxpro
>
> Daniel A. Thompson <dtho...@loderdrew.com> wrote in message
> news:377BC0DC...@loderdrew.com...
> > Craig,
> >
> > Would it be more correct to say Microsoft is moving away for FoxPro?
> >
> > dan
> >
> > Craig Berntson wrote:
> >
> > > Microsoft is trying to move away from "xBase", as I think we should too.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Craig Berntson
> > > Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
> > > Salt Lake City Fox User Group
> > > http://members.home.net/foxpro
> > >
> > > Neil Weicher <ne...@netlib.com> wrote in message
> > > news:377a3a0f....@msnews.microsoft.com...
Anders Altberg
founded Ashton Tate. "Ashton" was added to make it the name sound more
impressive, solid and trustworthy to the business world.
-Anders
Thomas Whiteley <twhi...@jps.net> wrote in message
news:377C3057...@jps.net...
> You are correct. Wayne Ratliff was the manager, paid Jeb Long to do the
work,
> and Wayne Ratliff went to Ashton Tate to sell the product. What a story!
Jeb
> Long is still involved with FoxPro,having published a number of books.
Have you
> seen Wayne Ratliff's name since the 1992 law suit?
>
> Tom
>
> Anders Altberg wrote:
>
Cooperstown.Net
like it was right out of Gone with the Wind, so they opted for
Ashton-Tate.
Jerome J. Slote
www.cooperstown.net
Anders Altberg <anders....@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:9k9f3.2312$nZ5....@nntpserver.swip.net...
Brett Slattery
> I was the Engineer/Technical Supervisor at Ampex Corporation Calibration
> Laboratory. We had 30,000 pieces of electronic test and measurement
> equipment, much of which was in support of Department of Defense
> manufacturing contracts. For each piece of equipment, we had a 6" X 9"
> card, with the complete history of the instrument. This was helpful to
> the technician. The contract required the ability to show to any
> Federal Inspector, the complete history of a specific instrument.
>
> We had Xerox 860, and I suggested to the boys in Palo Alto, they use CPM
> as well as their system, to give more flexibility to the CPU. Well, I
> am sure it was not my suggestion that prompted them to use CPM (it just
> made sense), but they did it. In the mean time, I had built a S-100
> computer from surplus IAMSI parts from anywhere I could find "goodies",
> and soldered several thousand connections on my Wonder Board, with a
> Z-80 CPU. With 64K of RAM (only $750.00 for the RAM card manufactured,
> but about $75 if you did it yourself) this machine did scream! Or so
> we thought at that time, the daze of IBM 360's. I wrote my own drivers
> in assembler, (remember the good old days, if you needed a driver-write
> it!).
>
> Well, I purchased dBaseII in January of 1982, and went through the
> Ashton Tate requirements:
> 1. Type of CPU.
> 2. Amount of memory.
> 3. Type of Floppy Disk (8" of course! I have had "experts tell me that
> there was no such thing as a 8" floppy disk")
> I then attempted to install the product, and it would not install. I
> called Ashton Tate, and talked to the "expert", who talked to the other
> "expert" (I could hear them both, on my phone), and they said: "We do
> not know, but when you find out, would you like to be a consultant for
> Ashton Tate!" I blew up, citing I defined all system questions they
> demanded, and they could go to &*xyz^%. About an hour later, I had
> dBaseII installed and operation. Oh boy! Two work areas. I can create
> a "relational database".
>
> I spent six months of my own time writing a program for my departments
> 30,000 pieces of equipment. My wife said she and the kids forgot what I
> looked like. I hired two clerks, who input the data from 30,000 cards
> to dBaseII, and it was so cool. No more cards. Everything on the
> computer. When we left work at 4PM each afternoon, we index the
> system. By 8AM the next morning, the system reindexing was completed.
> I could see the history of not only an instrument, but families of
> instruments, who owns what, its condition and forecast when to replace
> an item due to its history of repair. I cannot begin to define how this
> system helped me, and got me into this business. Later, I converted the
> system into dBaseIII (reindexing only took 45 minutes with this
> product). Next I went to FoxBase and FoxPro. Now I had good speed and
> no Ashton Tate. I left Ampex in 1990, and the system I wrote is still
> in use today, with no system crashes due to the program. A friend of
> mine still works with the system, and I keep suggesting it be updated,
> but the company, having gone from over 16,000 people to 600, will not do
> it.
>
> An aside: I believe it was July 1992 (?) I worked at Ashton Tate in San
> Jose, as a consultant. How could I do such a thing? I do not know!
> But a few months later, they were gone! I had left before that, but I
> am glad they are no longer on the scene. When Borland took over,
> Borland sent me a very nice letter, thanking me for my work at Ashton
> Tate, and said if any money was due me to let them know. I respect
> Borland for that, as I am sure other companies could care less, at least
> that has been my experience in Silicon Valley.
Thomas Whiteley
laugh.
Tom
Craig Berntson
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.net/foxpro
Anders Altberg <anders....@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:1FUe3.1729$nZ5....@nntpserver.swip.net...
> As I remember, I've always seen Wayne Ratliff referrred to as the
originator
> of Vulcan-dBase.
> -Anders
>
> Thomas Whiteley <twhi...@jps.net> wrote in message
> news:377BC863...@jps.net...
> > In 1972, Jeb Long wrote a Main Frame program called Jet Propulsion
> > Laboratory Database Management and Information Retrieval System,
> > (JPLDIS), in Fortran. While working for Wayne Ratliff, Mr. Long
> > translated his program to run under the CPM operating system (the one
> > Bill Gates "borrowed a few ideas from, and called it MS-DOS"). That was
> > used with the S-100 bus computer, before IBM PC hit the market. The
> > name Vulcan came from a legal brief I read about the Ashton Tate law
> > suit. I would imagine Vulcan is easier to say than, Jet Propulsion
> > Laboratory Database Management and Information Retrieval System, or
> > JPLDIS.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > Anders Altberg wrote:
> >
> > > Thomas Whiteley <twhi...@jps.net> wrote in message
Craig Berntson
bought it. PC/DOS was the version of MS-DOS that was licensed by IBM. They
had rights to the source code and made some modifications. OS/2 was written
by both Microsoft and IBM.
--
Craig Berntson
Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
Salt Lake City Fox User Group
http://members.home.net/foxpro
Thomas Whiteley <twhi...@jps.net> wrote in message
news:377C3385...@jps.net...
> Bill Gates paid $50,000 to a developer in Washington (state), who used the
CPM
> book and copied all features and code from Gary's CPM product. If you
owned
> CPM, you got a copy of the book with the product. Remember hex 0005, 0100
> 0800? There were thirty two functions in CPM the developer had access to,
to
> do some really cool things.
>
> Now tell me, who wrote PC DOS, and OS/2? Some of you might know!
> Here in Silicon Valley, if you are real good and work 20 hours a day,
seven
> days a week, you might get a bowl of rice, if you are good! The "boss"
gets
> the rest!
>
> Tom
>
> Craig Berntson wrote:
>
> > Nope. Bill Gates bought the rights to DOS.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Craig Berntson
> > Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
> > Salt Lake City Fox User Group
> > http://members.home.net/foxpro
> >
Nancy Folsom
--
xNancy++
Dan Musicant
<mrs...@nospam.aol.com> wrote:
: George Tate's partner was Hal Lashlee, but Lashlee-Tate sounded
:like it was right out of Gone with the Wind, so they opted for
:Ashton-Tate.
:
: Jerome J. Slote
: www.cooperstown.net
:
:Anders Altberg <anders....@swipnet.se> wrote in message
:news:9k9f3.2312$nZ5....@nntpserver.swip.net...
:> I have understood someone called Tate bought it from Ratliff and
:then founded Ashton Tate. "Ashton" was added to make it the name sound
:more impressive, solid and trustworthy to the business world.
Also more "impressive" was calling it dBASE II, even though it was the
first version.
Dan Musicant
Dan Freeman
(Hey, I *couldn't* make this up! <g>)
Dan
Anders Altberg <anders....@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:9k9f3.2312$nZ5....@nntpserver.swip.net...
> I have understood someone called Tate bought it from Ratliff and then
> founded Ashton Tate. "Ashton" was added to make it the name sound more
> impressive, solid and trustworthy to the business world.
> -Anders
>
Carl Heintz
Ashton Tate offices. George Tate has since died.
mew...@hotpop.com
spelling and product variations.
Anders Altberg
I still think the name was chosen because of its ring.
-Anders
Carl Heintz <c...@kcnet.com> wrote in message
news:377ECF8E...@kcnet.com...
Roger Ansell
Ummmm .... No!
Roger
Neil Weicher <ne...@netlib.com> wrote in message
news:377a3a0f....@msnews.microsoft.com...
> Has the term "xBase" come into general use among non-programmers? For
> example, a lot of business users of FoxPro programs know that they use
> FoxPr. But would they know what you meant if you said xBase?
>