X.400 vs. SMTP addressing problems...
Victor Oquendo
addresses of our Exchange users.
When an exchange user sends a message to both an internal exchange user and
an enternal SMTP user, for some reason the reply address for the internal
exchange user is sent out in X.400 format. The external SMTP user recieving
the message can't reply to the internal user (since their mail server
doesn't know what do do with the X.400).
Any clues on what we might have configured incorrectly on our Exchange
server so that the default reply addresses are X.400?
TIA,
-Vic
Victor Oquendo
>Try installing IMS.
>[...]
Please pardon my ignorance, but what is IMS? If you mean the Internet Mail
Connector, we've actually done that. I was aware that Exchange used X.400
internally, I'm just confused as to why it chooses to expose those addresses
to the outside world (instead of the SMTP addresses)?
All help is appreciated...
-Vic
Grift
We have the same problem here. (Altho' for some reason IMS doesn't install
properly--some weired error msg).
I've been told the reason is that Exch communicates internally using X400
addressing.
Regards,
G.
Victor Oquendo <v...@go2net.com> wrote in message
news:u7EnT$kz#GA....@cppssbbsa02.microsoft.com...
Amiri Jones
Check the Address Spaces tab of the IMS properties. Are there any
address spaces defined with routing addresses? Remove them. Assuming this
is the only IMS in your Exchange organization, the only entry that should
be on this page is one of address type SMTP, address space *, cost 1, and
scope Organization. The Routing Address tab should be blank. If you need
to use a particular server for your outbound mail, then use the "Forward
all mail to host" option on the Connections tab of the IMS.
Victor Oquendo
Thanks for the clue, but still no go. We do indeed have a single entry,
configured exactly as you mentioned, but the problem persists.
The odd thing is that exchange users _CAN_ send mail out to the internet.
The _only_ problem is that the addresses of fellow exchange users go out in
X.400 format instead of SMTP... This is _VERY_ frustrating.
Still looking for clues...
-Vic
Patrick A. Dant
I don't think your seeing an X.400 address where there suppose to be an
SMTP address. What the IMS does when you have mixed X.400 and SMTP
addressing is to convert the X.400 into a VERY LONG SMTP address. It
usually looks like
c%30us%40p%30orgname%40...cn%40s...@IMSSERVER.domain.root .
The %number are illegal characters being converted into acceptable SMTP
characters. It basically give an SMTP address that will route the SMTP
user's reply back through your IMS to the X.400 user.
Unfortunately, while this is a great idea most systems can't handle the
length and will bomb. I have also seen the address get corrupted. I believe
this is a bug in the IMS.
There is no way to turn this off. You can do one of two things:
1. Only send messages to SMTP or X.400 users, not both at the same time.
2. Limit the use of X.400 addressing.
The reason I mention # 2 is that you may not be intentionally wanting to use
X.400. If an Exchange GAL entry gets deleted and recreated, but you have a
PAB entry for the old entry, it will consider it a one-off address and turn
it into an X.400 address. In this case just delete the PAB entry and re-add
it to your PAB.
If you do have both an X.400 provider and SMTP provider there is nothing you
can do except restrict mix addressing.
Patrick A. Dant
CSC
Victor Oquendo <v...@go2net.com> wrote in message
news:et#wL26z#GA.245@cppssbbsa04...
Victor Oquendo
Although it sounds as though you're mostly right... I don't see the
character conversion happening. Here's a sample header:
Reply-To: <ste...@go2net.com>
From: <ste...@go2net.com>
To: "Steve Newman"
</O=GO2NET/OU=SEATTLE/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=Ste...@go2net.com>,
<v...@go2net.com>
Subject: another test
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:55:09 -0700
Message-ID: <55DA98C42E20D3118F...@exchange.go2net.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
X-UIDL: b";e9!(/!!23f!!Cm(!!
X-OlkEid: 3CC4F541E8A40056BB38D311B81200104B31A13C
The Steve Newman address above does not seem to be a valid SMTP address...
but perhaps you can correct me on that?
>Unfortunately, while this is a great idea most systems can't handle the
>length and will bomb. I have also seen the address get corrupted. I believe
>this is a bug in the IMS.
We are using Exim as our external mail server, and it doesn't appear to be
choking on length of the address so much as just rejecting it as valid in
SMTP land...
>There is no way to turn this off. You can do one of two things:
>1. Only send messages to SMTP or X.400 users, not both at the same time.
Don't all my corporate users have to be "X.400 users"? If so, it's a show
stopper to ask that we only send messages to folks inside the corporation,
or outside the corporation... but never to both at the same time...
>2. Limit the use of X.400 addressing.
Is there any way to do this? Can I force exchange to deal with all of our
users in terms of SMTP addresses, or at the very least not to _show_ the
X.400 addresses. Each of our corporate users also has an SMTP address on
the exchange box where they can recieve mail...
>The reason I mention # 2 is that you may not be intentionally wanting to
use
>X.400. If an Exchange GAL entry gets deleted and recreated, but you have a
>PAB entry for the old entry, it will consider it a one-off address and turn
>it into an X.400 address. In this case just delete the PAB entry and
re-add
>it to your PAB.
However, every time I reply to one of these messages, the bogus address will
be what my client (outlook 98) uses... since it doesn't see the SMTP
address... right? At least that appears to be the behavior I'm seeing.
>If you do have both an X.400 provider and SMTP provider there is nothing
you
>can do except restrict mix addressing.
The only "X.400 provider" I think I have to satisfy is this exchange
server... right?
>Patrick A. Dant
>CSC
Thanks again Patrick! Any more insight? Anyone?
-Vic
Rich Matheisen
>Although it sounds as though you're mostly right... I don't see the
>character conversion happening. Here's a sample header:
>
>Reply-To: <ste...@go2net.com>
>From: <ste...@go2net.com>
>To: "Steve Newman"
></O=GO2NET/OU=SEATTLE/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=Ste...@go2net.com>,
> <v...@go2net.com>
[ snip ]
>The Steve Newman address above does not seem to be a valid SMTP address...
>but perhaps you can correct me on that?
There's nothing unacceptable in that address according to RFC821 and
RFC822. Neither the "/" or "=" are prohibited in the definition of the
"local-part" of the address.
It's certainly not the EXPECTED form of a SMTP address but it
shouldn't present any problems on any conformant SMTP system.
[ snip ]
>>There is no way to turn this off. You can do one of two things:
>>1. Only send messages to SMTP or X.400 users, not both at the same time.
>
>Don't all my corporate users have to be "X.400 users"? If so, it's a show
>stopper to ask that we only send messages to folks inside the corporation,
>or outside the corporation... but never to both at the same time...
Is the "Steve Norman" represented by that address a Custom Recipient
or a Mailbox?
How does the message travel from the client software to the Exchange
SMTP server? Does it pass through any other connectors that have "SMTP
in the "Type" of its address space? Do any of the address spaces have
any information in their "Routing Address" tab?
The address in your example isn't the normal "Encapsulated Address"
format see by the presence of data in the Routing Address, but it
wouldn't hurt to double check al the connectors just to eliminate the
possibility.
Also, the address in the example is NOT an X.400 address. It's the
Distinguished Name of the object.
Can you tell us the contents of the X.400 address(es) on the E-Mail
Addresses tab of the "Steve Norman" object?
------------------
Rich Matheisen
MCSE, Exchange MVP
MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
Victor Oquendo
>shouldn't present any problems on any conformant SMTP system.
Ahhh... and indeed our external mail server (Exim... not Exchange) only
rejects the user as unknown...
Are you saying
- that our external server should be able to translate something of the form
'/O=GO2NET/OU=SEATTLE/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=Lau...@go2net.com' in to
'lau...@go2net.com'
- or that we should be configuring addresses of the former type for each of
our users in the external server?
I'd be surprised to hear that the latter is what the folks who created
Exchange had in mind...
In talking to our unix mail administrators, it appears that they may be able
to "convert" these local parts both incoming and outgoing at our external
mail server. If so, this could also solve the problem... albeit still not a
graceful solution...
>Is the "Steve Norman" represented by that address a Custom Recipient
>or a Mailbox?
A mailbox.
>How does the message travel from the client software to the Exchange
>SMTP server? Does it pass through any other connectors that have "SMTP
>in the "Type" of its address space? Do any of the address spaces have
>any information in their "Routing Address" tab?
There is only one connector, and that's the one for Internet Mail Service.
Under the Address Space tab there is a single entry and that's for SMTP,
configured as follows:
Email domain: *
Cost:: 1
Scope: Organization
Type: <blank>
Address: <blank>
>The address in your example isn't the normal "Encapsulated Address"
>format see by the presence of data in the Routing Address, but it
>wouldn't hurt to double check al the connectors just to eliminate the
>possibility.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean here...
>Also, the address in the example is NOT an X.400 address. It's the
>Distinguished Name of the object.
Cool, thanks for clearing that up. Is there any way I can get Exchange to
refer to it's users (at least in addresses when sending out mail) in a more
'normal' (e.g. sne...@go2net.com) format?
>Can you tell us the contents of the X.400 address(es) on the E-Mail
>Addresses tab of the "Steve Norman" object?
Sure.
c=US;a= ;p=Go2Net;o=Seattle;s=Newman;g=Steve
Thanks for your help. This is a great group,
-Vic
Rich Matheisen
>>It's certainly not the EXPECTED form of a SMTP address but it
>>shouldn't present any problems on any conformant SMTP system.
>
>Ahhh... and indeed our external mail server (Exim... not Exchange) only
>rejects the user as unknown...
>
>Are you saying
>- that our external server should be able to translate something of the form
>'/O=GO2NET/OU=SEATTLE/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=Lau...@go2net.com' in to
>'lau...@go2net.com'
If your Exim server is using a form of alias table to translate one
address into another then this should work. As I said, there's nothing
except the form of the address that's unexpected.
>- or that we should be configuring addresses of the former type for each of
>our users in the external server?
I don't think that's absolutely necessary. It may be desireable in the
short term though. At least until you can sort out why there's a DN in
the address where an alias is the norm.
>I'd be surprised to hear that the latter is what the folks who created
>Exchange had in mind...
So would I. But I was only pointing out that the address contined an
acceptable set of characters, not that the arrangement was normal. You
has said that the address was not a "valid SMTP address" and I was
only pointing out that it was.
>In talking to our unix mail administrators, it appears that they may be able
>to "convert" these local parts both incoming and outgoing at our external
>mail server.
Of course the _could_, but they really shouldn't have to.
>If so, this could also solve the problem... albeit still not a
>graceful solution...
But it may be an "avoidance" procedure until you figure out what's
going on.
>>Is the "Steve Norman" represented by that address a Custom Recipient
>>or a Mailbox?
>
>A mailbox.
>
>
>>How does the message travel from the client software to the Exchange
>>SMTP server? Does it pass through any other connectors that have "SMTP
>>in the "Type" of its address space? Do any of the address spaces have
>>any information in their "Routing Address" tab?
>
>There is only one connector, and that's the one for Internet Mail Service.
Just to make sure we both mean the same thing: when you look in the
"Connections" container there's only one object there (discounting the
cc:Mail and MS Mail connectors). Right?
>Under the Address Space tab there is a single entry and that's for SMTP,
>configured as follows:
>
>Email domain: *
>Cost:: 1
>Scope: Organization
>Type: <blank>
>Address: <blank>
>
>
>>The address in your example isn't the normal "Encapsulated Address"
>>format see by the presence of data in the Routing Address, but it
>>wouldn't hurt to double check al the connectors just to eliminate the
>>possibility.
>
>I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean here...
When there's information in the "Routing Address" tab the address is
usually "encapsulated" and starts like this:
IMCEASMTP:blahblah@domain
>>Also, the address in the example is NOT an X.400 address. It's the
>>Distinguished Name of the object.
>
>Cool, thanks for clearing that up. Is there any way I can get Exchange to
>refer to it's users (at least in addresses when sending out mail) in a more
>'normal' (e.g. sne...@go2net.com) format?
Well, thats the way it look on the bulk of the Exchange servers.
Your's seems to be an exception.
>>Can you tell us the contents of the X.400 address(es) on the E-Mail
>>Addresses tab of the "Steve Norman" object?
>
>Sure.
>c=US;a= ;p=Go2Net;o=Seattle;s=Newman;g=Steve
Drat. I was hoping to see a ";dda=....." in there.
How about the SMTP proxy address(es)? Are there more than one, or only
one?
I'm a bit perplexed with the contents of the RFC822 headers you've
posted. There's a "Reply-To:" header in there. That's not normally in
a SMTP message generated by the IMS. And the "From:" header contains
the correct information. Only the "To: header contains the DN. So, was
the quoted set of headers being sent FROM the Exchenage server or were
they being sent TO the Exchange server? And if they were FROM the
Exchange server then from where was the information captured? Does the
same information appear in the SMTP Protocol Log on the Exchange
server on outgoing messages?
>Reply-To: <ste...@go2net.com>
>From: <ste...@go2net.com>
>To: "Steve Newman"
></O=GO2NET/OU=SEATTLE/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=Ste...@go2net.com>,
> <v...@go2net.com>
>Subject: another test
The message appears to have been sent from an OL97 client ("X-Mailer:
Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0") but one that's working as a
POP3 client -- which means it's NOT using the IMS at all.
So, was the message addressed from the GAL or from a PAB entry?
Victor Oquendo
>address into another then this should work. As I said, there's nothing
>except the form of the address that's unexpected.
We're doing some pattern matching, and that seems to be working as an
interim solution...
>Just to make sure we both mean the same thing: when you look in the
>"Connections" container there's only one object there (discounting the
>cc:Mail and MS Mail connectors). Right?
Correct. The only one object there is 'Internet Mail Service'. We have no
cc:Mail or MS Mail connectors.
>Well, thats the way it look on the bulk of the Exchange servers.
>Your's seems to be an exception.
:o) Lucky me.
>How about the SMTP proxy address(es)? Are there more than one, or only
>one?
Actually, every mailbox currently has two SMTP addresses. One is
<user>@exchange.go2net.com (our internal mail server) and the second is
<user>@go2net.com (our external mail server).
>I'm a bit perplexed with the contents of the RFC822 headers you've
>posted. There's a "Reply-To:" header in there. That's not normally in
>a SMTP message generated by the IMS. And the "From:" header contains
>the correct information. Only the "To: header contains the DN. So, was
>the quoted set of headers being sent FROM the Exchenage server or were
>they being sent TO the Exchange server? And if they were FROM the
>Exchange server then from where was the information captured? Does the
>same information appear in the SMTP Protocol Log on the Exchange
>server on outgoing messages?
The two users involved here (Steve Newman and Vic Oquendo) are both using
Outlook 98. Steve Newman is hooked up to the Exchange server in our "final"
configuration, basically using it as the internal mail server. Vic Oquendo
is a POP client of the external mail server (we don't want to transition all
of our accounts until we figure this out).
Regarding logs... can you help me find the SMTP Protocol Log?
>The message appears to have been sent from an OL97 client ("X-Mailer:
>Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0") but one that's working as a
>POP3 client -- which means it's NOT using the IMS at all.
>
>So, was the message addressed from the GAL or from a PAB entry?
The headers you see are for a message sent from Steve Newman to
v...@go2net.com and 'Steve Newman' from the GAL (selected from the dialog box
behind the "To..." button, dropdown saying Global Address List).
Does that all make sense?
-Vic
Rich Matheisen
[ snip ]
>>How about the SMTP proxy address(es)? Are there more than one, or only
>>one?
>
>Actually, every mailbox currently has two SMTP addresses. One is
><user>@exchange.go2net.com (our internal mail server) and the second is
><user>@go2net.com (our external mail server).
Huh?
Why do you have the second SMTP proxy address if the address is for a
mailbox on another SMTP server? Somehow I think we're getting closer
to the source of your problem.
What radio button is selected on the IMS "Routing" tab? If "Do not
reroute . . ." is selected this almost makes sense. If "Reroute
incoming . . ." is selected then tell me the contents of the routing
list.
The MX records for go2net.com show the mail being directed to the FQDN
mail.go2net.com, not exchange.go2net.com (and the two have distinct IP
addresses, so one is not an alias for the other).
My suspicion is that the mail.go2net.com machine is using an alias
file to sent mail for (example) ste...@go2net.com to the server
exchange.go2net.com. If it's rewriting the RCPT TO commands then the
command should look like this: RCPT TO: <ste...@exchange.go2net.com>.
If that's true then the IMS "Routing" tab list should contain:
Sent to: Route to:
exchange.go2net.com <inbound>
or
go2net.com <inbound>
or it may contain both (in which case the exchange.go2net.com line
isn't needed at all).
Are there two SMTP proxy addresses on the mailbox in anticipation of
your eventual switch from the present system to just Exchange?
>>I'm a bit perplexed with the contents of the RFC822 headers you've
>>posted. There's a "Reply-To:" header in there. That's not normally in
>>a SMTP message generated by the IMS. And the "From:" header contains
>>the correct information. Only the "To: header contains the DN. So, was
>>the quoted set of headers being sent FROM the Exchenage server or were
>>they being sent TO the Exchange server? And if they were FROM the
>>Exchange server then from where was the information captured? Does the
>>same information appear in the SMTP Protocol Log on the Exchange
>>server on outgoing messages?
>
>The two users involved here (Steve Newman and Vic Oquendo) are both using
>Outlook 98.
That may be, but one of them is using it with the Internet Mail
service installed in the MAPI profile.
>Steve Newman is hooked up to the Exchange server in our "final"
>configuration, basically using it as the internal mail server. Vic Oquendo
>is a POP client of the external mail server (we don't want to transition all
>of our accounts until we figure this out).
Which one of the two sent the message that was used as an example?
And what happens if whoever is using the Internet Mail service places
that service into another MAPI profile (one with just Microsoft
Exchange Server service, and the other with just Internet Mail
service)?
>Regarding logs... can you help me find the SMTP Protocol Log?
IMS property page. Diagnostics Logging tab. Select the SMTP Protocol
Log category. Select the "Maximum" logging level. Click "Apply" and
then "OK". Stop the IMS. Use NT Explorer and navigate to the
exchsrvr\imcdata\log directory and delete everything in it. Then start
the IMS. There will be one log file produced for each thread started
by the IMS, so you may (depending on the message traffic) have to look
in several log files to find the information.
When you're done, set the logging level to "None" and restart the IMS.
>>The message appears to have been sent from an OL97 client ("X-Mailer:
>>Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0") but one that's working as a
>>POP3 client -- which means it's NOT using the IMS at all.
>>
>>So, was the message addressed from the GAL or from a PAB entry?
>
>The headers you see are for a message sent from Steve Newman
Who is supposedly using ONLY the Microsoft Exchange Server MAPI
provider. Sorry, but that's not the way I see this. The MS Exchange
MAPI provider wouldn't be inserting RFC822 headers into the message.
That would be handled by the IMS -- and the IMS doesn't insert
"Reply-To:" headers!
It looks like the message is leaving his client by way of port 25 and
the Internet Mail service. See my earlier recommendation of separating
the two services into two profiles. And, just for goo measure, make
them two NEW profiles -- don't reuse the existing profile at all. If
the existing profile is damaged (a distinct possibility) then you may
still get incorrect results if you simply remove one of the services
from it.
It may also be that the Internet Mail service on the client is
pointing to the Exim SMTP server and not to Exchange. If both MAPI
providers are present it almost makes sense that the OL client is
putting the DN into the "To:" header (it's not _right_ but it *almost*
makes sense) since the address is an Exchange mailbox.
>to
>v...@go2net.com and 'Steve Newman' from the GAL (selected from the dialog box
>behind the "To..." button, dropdown saying Global Address List).
>Does that all make sense?
It's almost starting to . . .