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ftdisk errors

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Chris Rees

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Jan 19, 2001, 12:14:04 PM1/19/01
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Hi,

Does anybody know any ways to troubleshoot ftdisk errors on nt servers with
mirrored drives?

Chris Rees
PA Technologies.


SuperGumby

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Jan 19, 2001, 6:18:03 PM1/19/01
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yes

Chris Rees wrote in message ...

Grey Lancaster [MS MVP SBS]

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Jan 19, 2001, 7:11:21 PM1/19/01
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Would some please share how to handle ftdisk errors?

--
Grey
MS MVP SBS

http://www.smallbizserver.com FAQ's/Links/Etc
http://www.egroups.com/group/sbs2k SBS Listserve


"SuperGumby" <tick...@spam.com> wrote in message
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SuperGumby

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Jan 19, 2001, 9:22:41 PM1/19/01
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my system doesn't work, can someone tell me how to fix it please ?

Grey Lancaster [MS MVP SBS] wrote in message ...

Grey Lancaster [MS MVP SBS]

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Jan 19, 2001, 11:06:37 PM1/19/01
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one of those nights eh?

--
Grey
MS MVP SBS

http://www.smallbizserver.com FAQ's/Links/Etc
http://www.egroups.com/group/sbs2k SBS Listserve


"SuperGumby" <tick...@spam.com> wrote in message

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Gary Karasik

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Jan 19, 2001, 11:53:13 PM1/19/01
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Chris,

Some details would be helpful. What errors are you getting?

GaryK

SuperGumby

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Jan 20, 2001, 12:19:29 AM1/20/01
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sorry if I'm being a little obtuse, some discussions from another group may
be bringing out the cynic in me.

What I mean is:

Is the original poster experiencing an error of some kind ? If so, can they
briefly describe their system and the error ? Is the mirror a total drive
mirror or a partition on a drive containing other partitions ? Is it the
boot/system partition or a data partition ? Is it indeed an SBS system or
vanilla NT Server ? Are we talking SCSI or IDE ?

Does the OP have a problem they wish the group to resolve or is this an
academic excercise ?

Grey Lancaster [MS MVP SBS] wrote in message ...

Chris Rees

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Jan 20, 2001, 7:35:19 AM1/20/01
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Hi,

Yes I am having problems!

I wouldn't have posted otherwise!

The system I am having trouble with is a two disk mirror system. I can not
give any more details until Monday (not in office till Monday).

I just wanted to know if anybody had any useful advice.

Chris Rees.

"SuperGumby" <tick...@spam.com> wrote in message

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Chris Rees

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Jan 20, 2001, 7:49:20 AM1/20/01
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Basically the system is as follows:-

Two mirrored IDE drives on SBS 4.5. The drives have two mirrored
partitions, one system and one data. I am getting event log ftdisk errors.

Are ftdisk errors mainly due to faulty drives? Is there any way of
troubleshooting ftdisk errors (apart from the usual disk administrator
program - reports mirror status as stable)?

At one point the system crashed and I had to take out one drive, break
partitions and then re-mirror.

By the way, what is wrong with purely academic postings! :-)

Chris Rees.

"SuperGumby" <tick...@spam.com> wrote in message

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Jim Behning

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Jan 20, 2001, 8:56:00 AM1/20/01
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I think that the people that answer problems spend enough time trying
to help solve problems that the academic "fun" questions put them over
the edge sometimes. The volume on this newsgroup has probably doubled
or tripled since I started visiting it. I guess the traffic would be a
third less if people would just stop trying to install second nics and
VPN.

"Chris Rees" <chris_...@ntlworld.com> wrote:


Jim B.

SuperGumby

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Jan 20, 2001, 5:13:51 PM1/20/01
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actually, I didn't suggest there was anything wrong with academic
questions,,, it's just that they require a different treatment than a
specific error.

I don't keep a library of standard documents, except those pilfered from
Jeff, so taking an hour to type & check "The SuperGumby's Guide to
topic32597" to get a reply "Thanks, but I mistyped 'fromat c:', problem
solved" get's a little frustrating.

Jim Behning wrote in message <3a699859...@news.atl.mindspring.com>...

Jim Behning

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Jan 21, 2001, 8:57:12 AM1/21/01
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Just giving someone a hard time. I even enjoy the academic discussions
although I am unable to create one.

"SuperGumby" <tick...@spam.com> wrote:


Jim B.

Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]

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Jan 21, 2001, 1:05:48 PM1/21/01
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Hi Chris,
 
The main problem is that you have not provided an actual question to discuss. If you want to have someone explain ft problems, you need to offer the symptoms or errors that you are seeing in order to give someone a hint about what to say!  If you are just concerned with the general concept, and in fact have not got a fault problem with your mirrors, then you need to explain the concern and situation you are trying to avoid, or prepare for. 
 
I despise using mirrors for various reasons, even though there are good instances of using mirrors as the optimal form of fault tolerance.  The main advantage of a mirror arrangement is that it provides fault tolerance without adding overhead for writing parity information like a RAID5 does. However, the problem with mirrors is that, particularly when it's a software mirror, the difference in the dynamics and technical aspects of the drive pair involved can lead to.....ft-errors.  This is part one of what I don't like about mirrors.  It's extremely difficult to know if you are getting ft-errors reported or even just symptoms because of the drives not being well matched.....or some other problem.  The only way to diagnose a mirror problem is to ......split the mirrors and pursue either different mates, or rebuilding the mirrors....and in the meantime you have lost your fault tolerance by the process involved. In addition, when you are working with mirrors, just about anything you do leaves you with the opportunity to make just one little error in clicking, and suddenly you zap the wrong drive, sync the data backward to the wrong mate, or just find that you have lost track of the last step you thought you were doing.  This is the second thing I don't like about mirrors, the potential for human error, the requirement to handle them to diagnose them, and the lack of fault tolerance while you are doing this.  The third thing I don't like about mirrors is that you don't gain a good cost performance in purchase for using mirrors....it's a 50% return on purchase price/disk space obtained.
 
This all goes to say why I don't talk much about mirrors.....I don't like them. I only use them where I either have no other option, or where the write speed of RAID5 is going to create a major performance problem.  As a result, I don't jump on discussions of academic questions on mirrors....and I don't claim a wealth of experience with mirrors in order to challenge others who use them all the time.
 
 
For more resources to review, if you only read one of these links, I suggest you look at this first one.....to motivate you to read more of the others. Disk mirroring is not all it's considered to be. Sean Daily did a great job in very few words of summarizing what I don't like about mirrors, software RAID, and surrounding issues:
 
 
If that builds your appetite, there's a lot more to review as well.  A slightly more details discussion of these same issues is found here, conveniently refering to SBS 4.5 deployment considerations, but with substantial discussion of exactly the same pro/con point....and parallelling my discontent with mirrors:
 
 
The following are little snacks on the subject:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Chris Rees

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Jan 21, 2001, 1:21:43 PM1/21/01
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Thanks Jeff.
 
The links you provided will help me immensely.
 
I didn't really spend enough time composing my original post.  I don't like mirroring either.
 
"Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]" <je...@cfisolutions.com> wrote in message news:uR1#JR9gAHA.1976@tkmsftngp04...

Larry Struckmeyer

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Jan 21, 2001, 1:26:51 PM1/21/01
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Seems to cry out for an academic discussin' of mirrors. I think
that mirrors are fine for some people (Brittney Spears, for example),
but I don't like them for myself. It is hard to get rid of the daily
facial growth without them, but oh well...

Still waiting for the group mug shot of the MVP's before can comment
on mirrors for them, but Jeff in spandex will no doubt be a treat
for the rest of us.

Larry Struckmeyer

Larry Struckmeyer

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Jan 21, 2001, 2:59:54 PM1/21/01
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Not bad, I had to switch news readers to see it. Now, is
that meant to be Jeff or Mariette, or ?

Shouldn't it say SBS MVP on the chest, or cape, or somewhere?


Larry


> "Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]" wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> (Apologies to the non-HTML readers)

Mariette Knap [MS SBS MVP]

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Jan 21, 2001, 3:07:35 PM1/21/01
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"Larry Struckmeyer" <last...@home.com> schreef in bericht
news:3A6B3FBA...@home.com...

> Not bad, I had to switch news readers to see it. Now, is
> that meant to be Jeff or Mariette, or ?

*g* I guess that is Jeff. The handsome superman :-)

Bye
Mariette

Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]

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Jan 21, 2001, 5:05:23 PM1/21/01
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That's the weekend casuals....you know, go out to the grocery or a
restaurant when you don't really want to be noticed.


The MVP logo uniform just gathers a crowd. I wear it strictly to the office
and on emergency customer calls, and every so often to sports gatherings
which, for some reason, seems to be the only place it blends in.


Dave Nickason

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Jan 22, 2001, 11:09:36 AM1/22/01
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I have the impression that the SBS user community has evolved to the point
where most of the simple, basic questions don't come up much anymore. We've
moved on to trickier topics like VPN. Soon, we'll be on to active
directory, and someday, the copier will be telling the SBS to order paper!


"Jim Behning" <jimbe...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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SuperGumby

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Jan 23, 2001, 10:55:37 PM1/23/01
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>directory, and someday, the copier will be telling the SBS to order paper!

waddya mean 'someday' ?


Paul Miller

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Jan 24, 2001, 9:47:54 AM1/24/01
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Jeff, Didn't I see you in the coffee shop trying for yet another free coffee
with that getup on?

:)

-Paul Miller
(Good post though, I must admit.)


"Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]" <je...@cfisolutions.com> wrote in message

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Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]

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Jan 24, 2001, 3:15:43 PM1/24/01
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Me, coffee hound? Nahhhh.

BTW, I'm not one of those with a coffee cup on the desk all day.....more
like a fan of really good coffee to mark the events of the day like
breakfast and dinner....a break with friends, convenient pastime with a
book.


"Paul Miller" <pmi...@lan-quest.ns.ca> wrote in message
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