I'm stupid....
Andrew
MPS system loader, hal and ntoskrnl got corrupted. Initial problem was
system halted with a bad hal.
Now as this SBS is on a Proliant, there's no Compaq f10 partition utilities
'cos they conflict with SBS. I didn't know about the compaq Hal recovery
utility until after the event (%$@#) when I was searching for a way to fix
my problem.
Couldn't boot from a diskette or cdrom and get access to my C: drive 'cos
its ntfs..... The SBS install diskettes don't provide a recovery option? Or
at least mine didn't even after a quick winnt32 /ox so how do I use the ERD
I have?
I split the mirror drives by unplugging one ( highly technical) and using a
set of NT diskettes and tried the recovery that way. Didn't work well.....
In the end I installed SBS from scratch into the 'recovered' partition,
plugged in the other 'good' drive and manually copied in the files I
needed - after spending an hour figuring out the three I needed of course
and in the end copying all six listed in Q156358 to be safe - and to be
honest because the three I'd figured out caused another hal problem.
Now my system is up and users happy and I'm wary of doing anything to
disrupte service further. Unfortunately I've also lost the SBS console and
the printers hooked up by print servers keep locking up and the only fix is
an SBS reboot. I've moved the printing entirely to a win2k workstation as a
drastic and cowardly fix.
Last night I tried to do a clean install to another new drive and restore
the configuration from my tape backup taken with NTbackup.. will it work -
no. Maybe I should have bought a tape utility. Hindsight is a wonderful
thing.
So I'm left with a configuration I'm unhappy with and trying to figure the
safest way to put things right again. I need a clean system(!) but I must
be stupid because its not obvious to me how best to do that.
Can anyone with more experience and talent suggest a way here? I have a
disk to install SBS clean and the running system with all my data and
configs on another drive in the same machine and I can preserve a copy by
disconnecting/splitting a mirror.
As an aside the same activity - installing a clean OS envirionment and
'restoring' the existing user files, exchange config and SQL db's will have
to be done for SBS2k too...
Thanks in advance.
Frustrated of Florida.
Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]
Sorry, but I'm not letting you off with the easy declaration that you are
stupid, I don't buy that.
What you are now is humble and experienced, and possibly are recent convert
from somewhere between naive and a bit to optimistic about what can go wrong
in a hurry.
One of the things that organizations like the military, police and medical
fields drill routinely is the idea that under pressure, you will not perform
as well as if you had all the time in the world and no consequences to screw
up. SBS is a particularly nasty beast for disaster recovery for various
reasons, but to be honest, the situation you faced would not really have
been that much improved in the long run even if you had a regular NT server
because, other than the need for the repair disk to be built slightly
different, the problem you faces is quite similar to what you would do with
any NT server. I'm not intending this to sound like I'm scolding you, it
would be my place and it would be fair even if I DID feel you deserved, and
I don't.
I had a parallel experience this past week with a Win2K Terminal Server
crash, actually quite a simple issue....more like a flat tire. The problem
description was basically the same. In my case, the boot sequence simply
stopped....no error message...during the startup phase for W2K that would be
the equivalent to an NT server's sequence immediately after you select the
boot menu option, the screen switches to blue background and the dots start
to accumulate on the second line.....
I figured out within about 15 minutes that I most likely had a corrupted
registry or system file problem. That was about 10:15 AM. The solution to
this problem, and yours, is to get a parallel installation of NT/W2K working
on the same box either by installing to the same partition/drive, or a
parallel drive installation (my preference. From there, you run CHKDSK on
the damaged partition and do a routine file inspection for obvious issues
like entire folder tree's missing, or massive errors reported from CHKDSK.
Failing an really big arrow pointing at the problem, in my situation and in
your, the next step is one of two options. Either you run a Setup -> Repair
option with the ERD you hopefully have, or you use your tape backup to
redirect a restore into the damaged system folder. So far, you probably
already knew all of this, just like I did. This recovery should not take
more than an hour, two at the most. It's a routine problem to resolve if
you have an ERD, have a tape backup to restore, or have some similar
options. At worst, you have to do as you did and reinstall from scratch, and
then restore from backup. About the only thing you can have done wrong is to
not have any form of backup at all, and if that is what you meant......then
you really do know better now.
Well, the explanation as to why I didn't leave that office until 1:00AM
(yes, 15hrs later, and I then returned over the weekend and spent another 3
hrs actually doing the recovery I originally intended to do) and why I was
forced to run a temporary drive installation for the next couple of days
until the weekend is one that is a story unto itself. However, the point of
the story would be that I had never actually done a recovery of the precise
type required on this sort of server with the tools I was using....because I
had not yet had to. My situation was the need to run a redirected restore
from one W2K Server hosting the tape backup and to land that restore in a
corrupted W2K system folder on a different W2K server over the network
because both have fixed mounted RAID5 arrays, yet slightly different RAID
controllers and it just didn't seem logical to physically move all the
equipment....and it wouldn't have mattered anyway if I did. I was using
Veritas BackupExec 8.0 with multi-server licenses, a product I have used in
previous versions for years now to do this exact same restore scenario many
times. Yet, this was the first occasion I had to pursue a remote System
State restore (the term W2K uses for a registry and related restore) that
requires redirection to a folder other than the system folder running the
machine at that time. Unfortunately, while BE 8.0 continues to support this
process in the identical manner it always has for NT computers, it has NO
support for doing it with W2K servers....much to my dismay and lost time to
prove it.
Your recovery included a couple of problems, but you still should have more
options to improve upon the scenario if you need to repeat it.....and you
likely have different problems to resolve now that you simply need some rest
to get focused upon more clearly.
The Compaq system partition is not required to do an install or recovery of
the Proliant 800....I know this because the very same site I was describing
above has the same computer, and I contacted Compaq to get advice before
installing my W2K OS onto the server. The Compaq CD (is it called something
like Quick Start?) has all the same utilities on it, and the only difference
is that if the partition exists on the hard disk, at the end of running the
configuration utility, it can be saved to the drive, but it is no different
than if you simply set the EISA information in the Server's memory.....it
stays there too. The Compaq partition is a backup of what is stored in
memory and a convenient way to run the utilities, nothing more.
Therefore, you can configure this from the CD boot process. The main issue
is that you need to build the repair/recovery boot disks for SBS using the
KB below:
Q196603 - Repair Windows NT After Installation of Service Pack 4
Q175665 - No Repair Option Offered Using Small Business Server Boot Disks
Q216207 - How to Use an Emergency Repair Disk with SBS
Q214748 - How to Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS Partition with SBS
Q175519 - Doc Error: Small Business Server Boot Disk Creation
Q119467 - Creating a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition
Q167045 - Reasons Why Windows NT will not Boot from a Shadow Mirror Drive
Once you have these boot disks, the only other part of the process is to
make sure to press F6 during the start of the first boot of the Disk 1 to
ensure the repair is begun with the SCSI drivers loaded.
Unfortunately, the chances are that what made your recovery the most
complicated was something that is common to NT, not unique to SBS, which is
the error messages lead you to believe that system files are corrupt, when
in fact they are not. You can have a simple situation that is cause by a
problem that I was dealing with during part of my own recovery experience
last week......the system boot partition has the wrong drive letter assigned
and some odd things can happen in certain circumstances when that is the
case.
In all probability, even though I don't have much information on your actual
problem, you had a fairly minor file problem that would have been easily
repaired if you had been able to confirm that the messages you were getting
were actually misleading you about the nature of the root problem cause. I
said sometime last week that I've rarely seen a corrupted NTOSKRNL or
related file turn out to be the actual problem when it is even reported to
be the issue.
If you have a tape backup of an earlier point on the previous SBS
installation, you would likely want to consider restoring all or most of the
information from that tape to return to the stable condition you previously
had. About the only difference that might be required if you have since
repartitioned the drive is to ensure that you have a boot floppy that you
can configure easily in case the partition number of the boot partition is
different now. Other than that, you would want to save the Exchange files
(and any SQL related files) and restore everything again right on top of the
existing SBS installation (split the mirror in advance). From there, you
then copy the Exchange files back to the system (assuming that these have
been modified since the crash and have new information) and then do a soft
recovery of the Exchange. Alternatively, you could export the Exchange files
to .PST files, then just import the new mail transactions after the restore.
I know how frustrating it is to go through what you did. You should take
some satisfaction in getting the system back up and running, and take even
more satisfaction in knowing you know better what to do next time. None of
us are as smart as we think we are until we are reminded abruptly about the
things we thought we knew, but didn't. It's called experience. What doesn't
kill you makes you stronger.
"Andrew" <ap_le...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eApc1oyeAHA.592@tkmsftngp02...
Andrew
Thanks for the comments, especially the references which will be very useful
and never seem to pull up on the search when you need them in a hurry. The
SBS boot disk reference for instance!
As some background I've been working in IT since way back. While I'm not
that old my first job (after decollating four part paper on the grave yard
shift) was systems programming IBM 360's with punch cards. Since then I've
touched a lot of architectures, implemented big stuff for airlines, banks
and the like and even had a hand in systems architecture for IBM. I guess I
have expectations! As an aside has anyone noticed how similar early NT is to
Vax VMS?
I digress, my point is this - systems shouldn't be hard to use, and should
come reasonably close to doing what either they, the vendor or the doc says.
My experience is, as you've guessed, very limited when it comes to NT. I
selected it because it's my own business here, it had a good price point for
the functionality it promised and, heck, everyone was using it ! Its time I
got 'up to date' I thought. Now I think that there's a few flaws in my
assumptions as to what it does for me and as you say my education is far
from complete. At least where NT is concerned. I don't think that its
unreasonable to expect that a system that has so much technology, time
effort and just plain old coding in supporting the pretty user interfaces
should also have a graceful way to diagnose and correct a few fundamental
files in error on the root partition.
I didn't express it clearly before but using the ERD in the manner
described in the doc and as you suggested below didn't work and I'm stumped
as to why. Either I'm screwing up (entirely possible) or there's a bigger
problem. I've created a new ERD and compared and they look to be almost
identical. I recreated the exercise on a new image and it works fine.
Breaking the Hal related files and using the ERD fails - it reads the disk
but doesn't seem to copy files . It works on another system image fine, just
not on my production system.....
NT backup works reasonably well shifting a copy to tape but isn't the most
friendly when it comes to restoring. I need to get another product I think.
Simply put it should not be too hard to use and be trustworthy with a high
confidence of putting things back to a known production state. I'm getting
variable results right now which isn't good and I'm reading up furiously...
As you say the Quick Start for Proliant 800's isn't necessary and SBS runs
fine without it, although you're left to install the other NT support
goodies manually and its not well documented whats available. As you know
you cannot install the quickstart partition because it requires the front of
the disk and conflicts with SBS installation. In my case it would have been
useful, as the ERD wasn't working to have as many tools as I could get my
hands on, or more importantly run without having to reinstall a complete NT
image first.
Interestingly when I did finally get access and run a disk inspection I had
no disk errors but the ntoskrnl, Hal and one other were corrupt and the
wrong size on both of the mirror set according to the Compaq and MS doc and
the size of the same files on new system. Overwriting them fixed at least
the worst of the errors and I'm left to wondering how they could have been
corrupted and what I do to prepare for similar problems in the future.
As an other aside when trying to instal the Compaq Hal recovery feature and
anything else from the Compaq SSD it requires an 'NT4.0 with SP6a' CD to
load some stuff from which I presume is Hal related (duh) - since I dont
have this, just SBS and a seperate SP6a what is the recommended method? I
thought of pointing it to a disk location but this seems like a dangerous
idea.
Before I waste anymore of everyones bandwidth I'm rapidly coming to the
conclusion that to rebuild this system, to repair the SBSconsole which seems
to have a wrong size ipfltdrv.sys, and get everything correct I need to
export everything manually to PST's, exported db's, file copies, and
manually configure a new system image as the way to be assured of a clean
system. This time round and for any SBS2k upgrade. Not a pretty thought.
I'm off to start on my new reading list, try replacing ipfltdrv and see if I
can't get my SBS console back.
rgrds
"Jeff Middleton [SBS-MVP]" <je...@cfisolutions.com> wrote in message
news:eiQ$$bzeAHA.1772@tkmsftngp05...
Mariette Knap
Good to see that you are back on the track. I read that you want to export
your mail to *.pst files and import those later probably. That is a very
secure way of getting your mail back in the new system. There is a tool from
the backoffice resource kit that does a great job helping you exporting and
importing mail. It is called "exmerge" and Jeff posted a while ago a link
where you can download a free version if you do not have the backoffice
resource kit.
Another point is that you wrote that you have a problem with the Console.
Really every problem with the Console is quite easy to solve if you can give
me the excact error and/or messages in the Event Log.
Bye
Mariette
"Andrew" <ap_le...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:urWDGE0eAHA.1588@tkmsftngp05...
Andrew
Thanks for the exmerge link, I'm looking at it now and its convinced me to
go that way.
The SBS console initially opened ok but produced permission errors when
setting up a new user, or as at first chaning an existing group of users
access to shared files. There was no error code just incorrect ot
insufficient permissions. I cannot remember which.
Now, after a restart to compete my printing service swap I cannot get into
SBS console at all, I get an Action cancelled, page unavailable message.
Error reporting for applications shows a 'IISADMIN service unavailable'
which might be a problem! but strangely I can access web pages on the
server. As stated before I'm a bit sus about ipfltdrv.sys which has a
diferent size now compared to a listing I made during my trials at the
weekend..
Thanks!
"Mariette Knap" <mari...@vlindertje.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3a5cc4bf$0$51947$1a0e...@dreader2.news.xs4all.nl...
Mariette Knap
> Now, after a restart to compete my printing service swap I cannot get into
> SBS console at all, I get an Action cancelled, page unavailable message.
> Error reporting for applications shows a 'IISADMIN service unavailable'
> which might be a problem! but strangely I can access web pages on the
> server. As stated before I'm a bit sus about ipfltdrv.sys which has a
> diferent size now compared to a listing I made during my trials at the
> weekend..
Oops, that is a more serious error. Look at this URL and follow the
instructions. After you have done that there will be other Console related
problems but that is for later.
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q186/3/88.ASP?LN=EN-US&SD=g
n&FR=0&qry=IISADMIN&rnk=1&src=DHCS_MSPSS_gn_SRCH&SPR=SBS
Bye
Mariette
Kieran McCullough
transferring my mail to a new server.
However when I attempt to run it, it falls over with the error:
"Error creating Message Service (MSPST MS)"
When I browse for this error I find that Q174197 tells me that it's because
I am not running the exchange client.
It also tells me that this is only used with Exchange 4.0.
Can I use it and if so, how?
Kieran McCullough
"Mariette Knap" <mari...@vlindertje.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3a5cc4bf$0$51947$1a0e...@dreader2.news.xs4all.nl...