Getting more participation on calls / logo unveiling

Ondrej Mihályi

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Jul 25, 2017, 7:26:23 AM7/25/17

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I believe the main topic tonight should be MicroProfile 1.1

Since Config 1.0 is very close to be released (any day now) and MicroProfile 1.1 should follow very soon, we need to discuss how and what we will deliver and announce after they are released.

With Config, the "what" is quite clear: spec document, API, javadocs, TCK, although we may gather information about implementations that are ready or planned soon. It's also important to inform other parties like KumuluzEE how they can implement MicroProfile in their products - I felt from their last email that they don't know how to align their own config features with MicroProfile.

With MicroProfile 1.1, there are more unresolved things, but one important is the question "what are deliverables of MP 1.1?" Complete newcomers would expect a download section on the microprofile.io page or at least some information on getting started. People that understand what the project is about would look for a releases/getting started page, which would gather information about the functionality provided by MicroProfile (links to Javadocs, maven artifacts, included JSRs, requirements - Java 8, etc.) and I believe that external links to individual implementations would be also very helpful.

Then we should plan how we announce Config 1.0 and MicroProfile 1.1, e.g. with an official statement easily accessible from the front page of microprofile.io

--Ondro

Dňa utorok, 25. júla 2017 10:48:47 UTC+2 Jonathan Gallimore napísal(-a):

+1

I'd love to be able to make the call, but the timing is difficult for me. As others have said, it'll be hard to find a time that works for everyone. A "working group" status would be great, particularly one that says "we need these things, any volunteers?".

Thanks

Jon

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Mark Little <mli...@redhat.com> wrote:

One topic to consider: regular reporting on “working group” discussions. For instance, I know we’ve had a couple of attempts to kick around ideas on how messaging protocols and implementations might fit into MP. Similarly we’ve had some discussions on transactions. Yet I’ve not seen any updates on either for a while. Now it might mean things are going well and are being discussed away from the main group/list and will be reported back later. However, it could also mean that things have stopped due to lack of time, apparent lack of interest, lack of leadership, simply people not knowing how to get to the next step, or a host of other reasons. I’d hate to think we lose people, interest from them and organisations, or even lose important opportunities to add capabilities to MP. It may be impossible to make things work better than they do today but I’d like to try.

Mark.

On 22 Jul 2017, at 17:41, John Clingan <jcli...@redhat.com> wrote:

With this thread in mind, what would folks like to see on the agenda in the next meeting?

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Emily Jiang

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Jul 25, 2017, 8:42:22 AM7/25/17

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+1. I also would like to find out how soon the blog service is supported in MicroProfile.io. We need to announce it and blog it. Basically we need to agree on how best to promote our releases. If we have time, I also would like to discuss the MicroProfile Istio ecosystem.

Emily

Mike Croft

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Jul 25, 2017, 8:58:57 AM7/25/17

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+1, particularly this:

one important is the question "what are deliverables of MP 1.1?" Complete newcomers would expect a download section on the microprofile.io page or at least some information on getting started.

I mentioned a while back about retiring the eclipse/microprofile repository as a source of information about the project. We could slightly redefine the purpose of this repository to document MicroProfile implementations in a standard way. E.g. if you want to use MicroProfile from Payara you need to...X, Y Z. This kind of detail doesn't fit in to the Eclipse Wiki (which, IMO, should be about the spec only) and the easiest way to include it in the MicroProfile.io website would be to add a site.yaml to the repo to index the asciidoc pages. We can discuss further tonight, or in a separate thread if needed.

Amelia Eiras

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Jul 25, 2017, 3:57:53 PM7/25/17

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Hola from SM everyone,

Today I was lucky to make it to the 1hr video MP hangout 11am PDT. it was a fun & honest discussion! The call was not technical focus, it was more of a priority setting - strategy agility conversation! :)

11 of us attending discussed ideas on how to enable a more proactive & engaging environment to bring forth MP updates to the current & future MicroProfilers on Technical & Business matters. Suggestions will be posted on this thread.

--- from my side, this week I joined the Eclipse Member quarterly video meet-up, it was a fantastic call due to its formidable discipline on sharing each topic:

compliance
technical
operations
marketing
etc

see below youtube channel about <~ 1hr:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V9jVS9yutY

I believe MP could follow Eclipse example, or at least try it once. Holding a formal quarterly recorded & screened overview MP status could be of great value, specially when topics such are shared & can be checked at a later time by interested parties:

stats on new members joining the Google forum
stats on new Eclipse MP committers
stats on MP participation on conferences
releases
compliance
Finance
marketing
media
design
etc

Lastly, as mentioned before, I would like for us to start via git a MP CookBook -- a guideline on how to find MP data without being lost on the GForum.

Feedback, always welcomed! Gracias

Ondro Mihályi

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Jul 26, 2017, 12:29:28 PM7/26/17

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Hi, Amelia,

Great summary of the yesterday meeting. We can hopefully apply some discipline according to your suggestions soon, even on the next hangout.

I think what you seek with a MP Cookbook is already in the main repo: https://github.com/eclipse/microprofile This used to be a documentation repository trying to gather all relevant information about MicroProfile in a single place. I believe we should promote this repository more and even encourage people to start with this repo before they start reading the mailing list archives. It is enough to keep the repository updated, without any additional repository.

It would be even better if we could integrate the repository into the microprofile.io site so that the adoc content is displayed as a getting started page.

--Ondro

Amelia Eiras

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Jul 26, 2017, 12:57:22 PM7/26/17

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Dias Ondrej,

YES, that is exactly the skeleton MP needs, a good start.

Adjustments will be needed to match the different sections currently taking place & future ones. Promotion of the git +1.

I will check carefully its data before the end of the week.

Thanks for your prompt follow up, very happy that your feedback avoids duplication of work. You ROCK #usualsuspects! :)

Amelia Eiras

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John Clingan

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Jul 26, 2017, 6:45:06 PM7/26/17

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Adding Red Hat marketing folks to this list so they are aware of an informal decision made during yesterday's hangout and can also participate in the discussion. I recommend that other vendors cc their marketing folks and community members, so that we get a really good discussion going here. The decision is informal because we need broader community feedback and validation.

The informal decision

The plan for the August 8th Live Hangout was to unveil the logo survey results in addition to our typical discussion. During yesterday's Live Hangout, we discussed releasing MicroProfile 1.1 during the same August 8th call.

Why August 8th Live Hangout? That doesn't leave much time!

The idea with launching during this same meeting is that it compliments the logo results and we can invite a broader community and the press to build some momentum. Config 1.0 is done. We also want to release MicroProfile 1.2 prior to JavaOne, therefore putting some "temporal space" between the two releases. We can go into JavaOne with two releases behind us

What is needed and by whom?

Please pass this thread around to the marketing folks (click on the "reply" dropdown box to email a direct link to this message"). The sooner we have this discussion, the sooner we get buy-in, and the sooner we can define an agenda, the sooner we can get the word out!

This is a pretty serious goal, so let's get a lot of participation and discussion. Thanks in advance!!

John Clingan

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Jul 26, 2017, 6:54:35 PM7/26/17

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OK, due to a recovered brain hiccup, I remembered the word I wanted to use instead of "informal decision" - "Proposal"!

12 hour day so far. Apologies for correction.

Amelia Eiras

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Jul 26, 2017, 7:45:02 PM7/26/17

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John & all,

MP mktg email is active: microprofil...@googlegroups.com.

Moving forward, the Community is welcomed to cc mktg email INSTEAD of individual emails, when attention from mktg team is needed.

--

The list of mktg MP active participants, who today are receiving this email will be post it on a new thread soon.

As mentioned before, all admins, managers, etc data will become public as a part of the MP git skeleton for all to see what's what :)

Cheers,

Kevin Sutter

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Jul 27, 2017, 4:40:03 PM7/27/17

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Amelia,
How should newbies get invited to this new Eclipse MicroProfile Marketing community? You just helped me out with the proper email address, but as we get new people wanting to get involved in the marketing aspect, how should they get registered? And, is there a reason why this Marketing community is by invitation only instead of being public like the rest (most) of our communications? Sure would make it easier to join if people could invite themselves...

Thanks,
Kevin

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 6:45:02 PM UTC-5, Amelia Eiras wrote:

John & all,

MP mktg email is active: microprofile-marketing@googlegroups.com.

Amelia Eiras

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Jul 27, 2017, 4:58:00 PM7/27/17

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Kevin,

You have stated the most important thing about healthy collaboration — transparency to welcome anyone who wants to help.

Marketing skeleton is still being set up, as mentioned on previews email, updates are coming by team soon.

Anyone in MP, who wants to participate on Mktg will be welcomed to join on mktg fun! :)

Due to the hectic work week and some of the MP mktg team traveling this week, there are some delays on bringing such cool updates, formally to the MP forum with new status.

I am openly sharing your awesome msg with all. You rock!

Amelia Eiras

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Ondro Mihályi

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Jul 27, 2017, 6:32:20 PM7/27/17

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Hi Amelia and marketing team,

As Kevin pointed out, the marketing google group at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/microprofile-marketing is private and suggests there is a team with special priviledges in the MicroProfile community. Since the beginning, there has always been a single MicroProfile team with all members equal and all information public. A notable exception is Eclipse project committers with more slightly rights than other contributors, but that's mandated by the Eclipse foundation and is highly transparent.

It's great that a new team is being formed to power the marketing aspect, and so far everything was done transparently (discussion on this mailing list, public hangouts with meeting minutes, public list of hangout attendees). Therefore I'm very surprised that the marketing google group isn't public and accessible only via invitation. It should be open to anybody, and it should have been from the start.

If there are any reasons to keep some information private, it should be only temporary (e.g. to avoid leaking information about the new logo before it's announced) and, foremost, the reasons should be discussed publicly before using a private channel. I expect that the marketing google group would be opened soon after the logo is announced or the reason to stay private is justified and clear.

--Ondro

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Amelia Eiras

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Jul 28, 2017, 1:29:33 PM7/28/17

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Ondrej,

You are spot on correct on the temporary set up of new mktg email, (now PUBLIC) that ought to be seen not as a new MP group but as an extension email that ought to be cc'd on all MP regular forum threads, when attention to mktg matters is required.

Why? B/c it is easy to miss stuff & trace stuff as it on MP forum. cc'd works great as it brings extra focus to sections, in this case Mktg.

7/28/17: Mktg Group is public & anyone is welcomed to join. Yet, the expectation is that all data will be posted on MP forum & not ONLY on mktg forum.

Your open feedback is great, explicitly states what is expected from OSS collaboration, transparency. Again, you ROCK OM! :)

Like you, I have stated before and I stand by the fact that in anything OSS, if anything occurs in private doors and it is not shared properly and timely with its Community, it ought not to take place, such time spent ought to be voided as it is not beneficial to the Project.

Mktg team met this AM, I just read the minutes posted on MP forum:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microprofile/uJtFLYkiFxw

Social media is being set up, my direct Mktg team request on access to Media:

Aside from access to MP Tweeter as an admin, please remove me from all other media. Thank YOU!

-----

NOTE: Anyone who wants to help PR MP via media is most welcomed to ask, OPENLY, as I have done above & explicit on what you would like to participate on based on how much value you can add.

Media MP Admin access will be traced, check mktg minutes above for current updates.

Anyone who gains admin access, IMPORTANT -- admins don't need to be a Vendor to ask for access, individuals are most welcomed to coordinate, become a referee & help media speak on behalf of the Project and not focus on 1 vendor or another. In this case, I see particular with Tweeter the importance of setting at least 2 values (more welcomed) to help braid a healthy environment.

I will follow up a new thread on DON'Ts & hope many speak up to add it on the MP git MEDIA section.

MP Tweeter admins never ought to reply as a group but as individuals. Own what you say, do not hide behind a group
never block anyone, no matter the reason
MP Community using MP forum is welcomed and ought to cc'd microprofi...@tomitribe.com when something ought to be tweeted or re-tweeted. PR is not a 1 section or team effort but a coverage that needs all eyes. Participate!

Amelia Eiras

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Jul 28, 2017, 2:35:18 PM7/28/17

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Hola Angela,

Amelia here. Have you joined the MP gForum?

Your msg below is not posted on the actually thread yet. It seems you still have not joined the MP Ggroup, have you? To post the msg below & expect feedback you must become a member by joining group.

Note: MP Ggroup is not moderated — all messages (when written by members) are received at the speed they come through.

You are welcomed to confirm or let us know if assumption is incorrect. Questions do ask and thanks for doing MP Project!

Amelia Eiras

On Jul 28, 2017, at 10:54 AM, muddw...@gmail.com wrote:

Question on August 8th Hangout - is this open to members only or should we encourage our interested team within IBM and each other's companies? Want to determine if I should let some IBM team members know about the hangout and join. I see the logo will be unveiled and the MP 1.1 version - who does this as I have not been to one of the hangouts yet. You will see another member joining me from IBM to help with all the activities (Steve Miszkewycz). He will be helping with the requirements for the booth, promotion, blog schedule, if a surround event will be executed, booth staff schedule. I've invited him to our calls and please let me know if he needs to do anything additional to get connected to this team.

Angela Warner, IBM

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Amelia Eiras

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Jul 28, 2017, 4:59:12 PM7/28/17

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Being subscribed is not the same as joining the group… Current MP gGroup set up only allows members to post. group is public, all data can be viewed without joining group or subscribing to it.

Your actions and followed up candid questions shows us that gGroup needs a short/direct 2 sentences on how to MP join gForum to avoid situations like you are currently in.

Thank YOU for already improving MP communications Angela.

Now, please go to:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/microprofile
you will see “Eclipse MicroProfile” Shared publicly on the upper left side of the page, below reads 33 of 341 topics, blue box: Join group to Post — Click and you are set.

Likely, you will have to copy/paste the original comments & question for your first msg. Please do so and MicroProfilers who can add value to the thread, will openly own his/her feedback.

Cheers,

Amelia Eiras