Hangout: CQRS, Event Sourcing, Axon and Distributed Transaction

[Emily Jiang]

Further to the discussion on https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microprofile/pbYf_7sVKKA, I have created a meeting invitation for Reza (Thanks Reza!) to take us through CQRS, Event Sourcing and Axon (https://axoniq.io/). Then we will investigate whether and how we can use this to solve distributed transaction for microservices.

The meeting invitation is on https://calendar.google.com/calendar/r/day/2018/11/8. I'll record the meeting for anyone who cannot make it. There might be a couple of subsequent calls on this.

Here are the details for call-in info, just in case.

Thursday, November 8

3:00 – 4:00pm

Virtual meeting: Join Webex meeting https://ibm.webex.com/join/emijiang

Description: Reza Rahman will talk about CQRS and Event Sourcing. He also give an overview on Axon framework (https://axoniq.io/). We then focus on how to use CQRS and Event Sourcing to solve distributed transaction in microservices. This is the first session of a series of meetings. The meeting will be recorded.

Join Webex meeting https://ibm.webex.com/join/emijiang | 925 724 343

Join from a video conferencing system or application Dial emij...@ibm.webex.com You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number.

Join by phone +1-669-234-1178 United States Toll 1-844-531-0958 United States Toll Free Access code: 925 724 343

Global call-in numbers https://ibm.webex.com/cmp3300/webcomponents/widget/globalcallin/globalcallin.do?siteurl=ibm&serviceType=MC&ED=565812672&tollFree=1

Hope to see many of you there!

Thanks

Emily

[Martin Stefanko]

Hi Emily,

is the time in UTC please? Would it be possible to create an invite in any calendar?

Thank you,

Martin

[Emily Jiang]

It is in MicroProfile Calendar. If you imported it directly from the MP calendar or sync up with the calendar, you will be fine.

Thanks

Emily

[Emily Jiang]

Just in case, you don't know where to find MP Calendar. Here is how.

1. Navigate to MP wiki https://wiki.eclipse.org/MicroProfile

2. On the left hand site, click on the calendar. Go to 8th Nov, you can find the entry for CQRS call. If you have dynamically linked your calendar with MP Calendar, you can see the new entry on 8th Nov already.

By the way, in my first email, the time zone is in GMT.

Thanks

Emily

[Reza Rahman]

Here is the brief slide deck for tomorrow's meeting. Sorry for sending this out so late. It has been busy.

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[Emily Jiang]

Thanks Reza! A quick reminder: the call will begin in 10 minutes. Hope to see many of you there!

Thanks

Emily

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Thanks
Emily
=================
Emily Jiang
eji...@apache.org

[Tom Jenkinson]

Hi Emily,

Can I ask, is the recording available to share yet?

Thanks,

Tom

On 8 November 2018 at 14:51, 'Emily Jiang' via Eclipse MicroProfile <microp...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Thanks Reza! A quick reminder: the call will begin in 10 minutes. Hope to see many of you there!

Thanks

Emily

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 10:32 PM Reza Rahman <m.reza...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is the brief slide deck for tomorrow's meeting. Sorry for sending this out so late. It has been busy.

On 11/5/2018 6:36 AM, 'Emily Jiang' via Eclipse MicroProfile wrote:

Further to the discussion on https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microprofile/pbYf_7sVKKA, I have created a meeting invitation for Reza (Thanks Reza!) to take us through CQRS, Event Sourcing and Axon (https://axoniq.io/). Then we will investigate whether and how we can use this to solve distributed transaction for microservices.

The meeting invitation is on https://calendar.google.com/calendar/r/day/2018/11/8. I'll record the meeting for anyone who cannot make it. There might be a couple of subsequent calls on this.

Here are the details for call-in info, just in case.

Thursday, November 8

3:00 – 4:00pm

Virtual meeting: Join Webex meeting https://ibm.webex.com/join/emijiang

Description: Reza Rahman will talk about CQRS and Event Sourcing. He also give an overview on Axon framework (https://axoniq.io/). We then focus on how to use CQRS and Event Sourcing to solve distributed transaction in microservices. This is the first session of a series of meetings. The meeting will be recorded.

Join Webex meeting https://ibm.webex.com/join/emijiang | 925 724 343

Join from a video conferencing system or application Dial emij...@ibm.webex.com You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number.

Join by phone +1-669-234-1178 United States Toll 1-844-531-0958 United States Toll Free Access code: 925 724 343

Global call-in numbers https://ibm.webex.com/cmp3300/webcomponents/widget/globalcallin/globalcallin.do?siteurl=ibm&serviceType=MC&ED=565812672&tollFree=1

Hope to see many of you there!

Thanks

Emily

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Thanks
Emily
=================
Emily Jiang
eji...@apache.org

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[Emily Jiang]

Thank you Reza for presenting CQRS, Event Sourcing and Axon yesterday! It was well attended. I was going to schedule a subsequent session in one week. However, I was made aware that it is Thanks Giving week. Shall we have the followup call same time next Thursday? I will try to host this call from Devoxx Belgium. Thoughts?

Hi Tom,

I sent the recording to John last night. John is going to upload to MP youtube channel. John, please paste the link once you have uploaded.

Thanks

Emily

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Thanks
Emily
=================
Emily Jiang
eji...@apache.org

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[m.reza.rahman]

I am available this Thursday the 15th. After that I will be available after December 3rd.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

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[Emily Jiang]

Thanks Reza! Let's do the call this Thursday and then hopefully one more in the first week of Dec. I have updated the MP Calendar accordingly. Hope to see many of you there!

Thanks

Emily

[m.reza.rahman]

Sounds like a plan! See you on Thursday!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/8d235cdd-6b42-424b-8242-dab691157cba%40googlegroups.com.

[Emily Jiang]

The call will be in 1 hour and 45 mins. Hope to see many of you there!

Thanks

Emily

[Emily Jiang]

Join the webex call in 20 mins. Check MP Calendar for call in details.

Thanks

Emily

[Emily Jiang]

It seems that John was busy lately. I went ahead to upload to youtube. Tom et all, last week's recording is here.

This week's call in 2 minutes.

Thanks

Emily

[Tom Jenkinson]

Thanks for the recording link.

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[Marcia Peterson]

Emily,

I was an end user for Toys R US project and they were having problems with the Gift Cards (used SAP-CRS), do you want me to send you a list of the problems they had?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/CAECq3A_dSit%2B9jQ2giGHPa%2BKmf%2BMGw%2BWfHbDW-yH13YFb_gRJQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Emily Jiang]

Thank you Marcia for joining the call! Not sure what we can do with the issues. Do they have issues on CQRS, Event Sourcing or Axon? Can you explain what the issues in the context of CQRS, Event Sourcing or Axon?

Many thanks to Reza for taking us through Axon framework! By the way,  here is the recording.

The part3 will be on 6th Dec sametime with the focus on Saga and Transaction.

Thanks

Emily

[Tom Jenkinson]

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 07:54, 'Emily Jiang' via Eclipse MicroProfile <microp...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Thank you Marcia for joining the call! Not sure what we can do with the issues. Do they have issues on CQRS, Event Sourcing or Axon? Can you explain what the issues in the context of CQRS, Event Sourcing or Axon?

Many thanks to Reza for taking us through Axon framework! By the way,  here is the recording.

The part3 will be on 6th Dec sametime with the focus on Saga and Transaction.

Please could you add it to the MP calendar?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/7b12d8d1-c592-4d33-a1cc-f3830eb56735%40googlegroups.com.

[Marcia Peterson]

I will look into it and get back with you.

Thanks

Marcia Peterson

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[Emily Jiang]

Please could you add it to the MP calendar?

done.

Emily

[Tom Jenkinson]

On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 at 22:00, 'Emily Jiang' via Eclipse MicroProfile <microp...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Please could you add it to the MP calendar?

done.

Thanks, much appreciated

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[John Clingan]

Emily, can you resend the link? I can't find the email with the link

[Emily Jiang]

Hi John,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imairvz2pQ8&feature=youtu.be  Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNR1GiE1nyA&feature=youtu.be Part 2

Thanks

Emily

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[John Clingan]

Thanks. I re-published to the MicroProfile channel.

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[Emily Jiang]

Thank you John!

Just a gentle reminder to anyone who is interested in this topic. The next meet up is Thursday next week 3-4PM GMT time. See MP calendar for details.

Thanks

Emily

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[Marcia Peterson]

Emily, 

The only issues they had were for CQRS, over time as more data is collected and updated (backlog) this had a negative effect on performance due to load on the data store and data access layer, and the complexity of queries required to retrieve information. Ex. Gift Cards not being used by the customer over time amounted to millions of dollars stored in the system and duplicated names and date of birth being the same caused the most problems.

Marcia Peterson

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[Emily Jiang]

Hi Marcia,

Can you join the call now and have your issue discussed?

All, the CQRS call with Reza is starting in 2mins. Join in via https://ibm.webex.com/join/emijiang

Thanks

Emily

[Tom Jenkinson]

Hi Emily,

Please can you share the recording for part 3 when it is ready? :)

A question then for Reza regarding the AxonBank example that was mentioned:

* I can see where the transaction is started: https://github.com/AxonFramework/AxonBank/blob/master/core/src/main/java/org/axonframework/samples/bank/command/BankTransferManagementSaga.java#L48

* I can see how the transaction is completed (for example): https://github.com/AxonFramework/AxonBank/blob/master/core/src/main/java/org/axonframework/samples/bank/command/BankTransferManagementSaga.java#L97

* It's not clear to me though from what was said, whether (for example) the command handler which receives the the DebitSourceBankAccountCommand is also doing its work directly within the saga? https://github.com/AxonFramework/AxonBank/blob/master/core/src/main/java/org/axonframework/samples/bank/command/BankAccountCommandHandler.java#L41

* Also, I can see that this command handler generates an event that will be consumed by the original saga: https://github.com/AxonFramework/AxonBank/blob/master/core/src/main/java/org/axonframework/samples/bank/command/BankAccount.java#L58 but what I can't see is where the actual database debit is performed? I imagine there should be a different projection that consumes the SourceBankAccountDebitedEvent and updates the database accordingly?

Thanks,

Tom

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[Emily Jiang]

Tom,

Here is the part 3.

John, please re-upload to MP channel.

Thanks

Emily

[Tom Jenkinson]

Thanks Emily

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[m.reza.rahman]

Tom,

To be honest, I have not looked at Axon Bank for a while. I'll have to take a look and let you know.

Be advised though, gift card really is the simplest Axon example. After the talk, I remembered we have a version of gift card with sagas somewhere. I'll have to dig around and ask the right person. Would you prefer that or do you actually prefer a more elaborate example anyway?

Cheers,

Reza

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: Tom Jenkinson <tom.je...@redhat.com>

Date: 12/6/18 11:33 AM (GMT-05:00)

To: microp...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [microprofile] Hangout: CQRS, Event Sourcing, Axon and Distributed Transaction

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/CALaezvVRrD3zaiYa%2B5-oNqLdEtpprpd-EbhfWL8a_9UuJWXpuQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Emily Jiang]

Thanks Reza!

By the way, I am not available next Thursday. Shall we meet up on 20th Dec to look at the Saga and LRA in more details? Thoughts?

Thanks

Emily

[Tom Jenkinson]

I think we just were interested to see a use case in practice so whatever you think would be best would be great initially.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/5c0aa2d6.1c69fb81.359cf.dcec%40mx.google.com.

[Reza Rahman]

I am available. I just need to know what the exact agenda would be and determine if I have the time to produce any additional material. Right now, I perhaps have 15 minutes of material left (perhaps 30 including a recap).

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/ffeb43f1-bd4f-4b14-b94e-eb21f8337d1b%40googlegroups.com.

[Reza Rahman]

OK. Let me try to dig up gift card + saga. I think that is best to get an initial understanding of sagas instead of getting bogged down with the nuances of Axon Bank at the moment.

If I can't find it, we'll have to go with Axon Bank unfortunately. The upside of that is that it will force us to look at some of this is greater detail. As you can already see some of this gets complicated easily. I can only imagine what would happen if the API was only partial, not backed by sound, well-established theory and introduces stronger coupling/synchronicity as "RPC flavored" invocations might cause.

To be honest, there is a reason why distributed ACID transactions win the game in terms of managing programming complexity when you can get away with it.

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[Emily Jiang]

Thanks Reza!

I am thinking to do a bit deeper conversation on Saga. If you can get gift care + sago, it will be awesome. Axon Bank is an equally good example. If we have time, we can look at the current design of LRA.

Michael/Tom, can you prepare a few slides on LRA so that we can look at Saga and LRA to see how we can define a good distributed transaction model for microservices.

Thanks

Emily

[m.reza.rahman]

To be honest, what I am struggling to understand is what more to say about sagas beyond just demoing a working example (gift card or Axon bank).

What I suggest is identifying specific questions after going over the saga documentation offline by yourself: https://docs.axoniq.io/reference-guide/1.2-domain-logic/sagas.

That said, I can fully appreciate the fact that these things are not necessarily immediately obvious to folks new to CQRS/ES. Perhaps what is actually needed is simply repeating the material from the last session, only with independently runnable code instead of just code snippets of the key bits?

If you can help confirm if that's what's actually needed vs. spending some time identifying specific questions, that will be tremendously helpful in properly preparing for the next session so that it is productive and helpful for all.

If we just wanted to have some open ended conversation and I just need to send some resources ahead of time to enable that, that certainly also makes sense to me.

Please advise?

P.S.: To be honest, I can't help with the LRA part too much. I've stated my opinion on the concept here before and unfortunately my opinion on it has not changed much.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: 'Emily Jiang' via Eclipse MicroProfile <microp...@googlegroups.com>

Date: 12/7/18 5:14 PM (GMT-05:00)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/1f936521-9f8b-41ab-9752-8223ec2eb8cf%40googlegroups.com.

[Emily Jiang]

Hi Reza,

To be honest, what I am struggling to understand is what more to say about sagas beyond just demoing a working example (gift card or Axon bank).

Yes, this is what I am thinking as well. It will be great if you can demo a working example, anything you pick.

Perhaps what is actually needed is simply repeating the material from the last session, only with independently runnable code instead of just code snippets of the key bits?

 I think with runnable code will help. Basically agree with what you said.

As for LRA, quite a few people engaging in LRA spec will be able to have a quick run through. Tom/Michael, will either of you be able to do a few slides on LRA?

Hope this answers your question!

Thanks

Emily

[Reza Rahman]

OK. Let me see what I can dig up and what kind of time I have to prepare something. I'll post back here and let you know.

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[Michael Musgrove]

Yes Emily, we can do a few slides explaining what LRA is.

Also, I am available most of the 20th Dec (except I do have another engagement at 1640 UTC)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/0f72a45e-6aab-42b9-9201-1fe8497cfd39%40googlegroups.com.

[Emily Jiang]

Cool. Thank you Reza and Michael! Talk to you on 20th Dec!

Thanks

Emily

[Reza Rahman]

OK. Please keep in mind I can't commit to anything significant on that day quite yet. I am still investigating what I could do and when. I'll try to let you know by Friday or so.

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[Emily Jiang]

Sure, thanks Reza!

Emily

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[m.reza.rahman]

Unfortunately there is no version of gift card that has sagas in it. Aside from Axon Bank, these are some other applications that have sagas in them:

* https://github.com/AxonFramework/Axon-trader

* https://github.com/idugalic/digital-restaurant

Unfortunately the truth is that I really don't have time to dig up much else or prepare much else right now. I may be able to do a bit more in January. I am not terribly familiar with any of these applications but they are all intended to be self-service examples you can run and investigate on your own. None of them are unfortunately as simple as gift card. To some extent, this is inevitable. Only a more complex application requires sagas.

I am still OK to go over the 10-15 minute worth of material I have left and maybe do a recap of material already covered for another 10-15 minutes on the 20th. Anything more, I need to find the time to prepare first and get back to you when I would be able to properly present it.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: Tom Jenkinson <tom.je...@redhat.com>

Date: 12/6/18 11:33 AM (GMT-05:00)

To: microp...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [microprofile] Hangout: CQRS, Event Sourcing, Axon and Distributed Transaction

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/CALaezvVRrD3zaiYa%2B5-oNqLdEtpprpd-EbhfWL8a_9UuJWXpuQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Emily Jiang]

Reza,

Let's meet up this Thursday at usual time! I have created an entry on MicroProfile calendar. Reza, you can do a recap followed by some discussion on LRA by Michael. Any concerns, please shout.

Thanks

Emily

[m.reza.rahman]

Happy to present the material I have, explain anything in detail and participate in the LRA discussion as much as I can.

See you Thursday!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microprofile/42520e25-6db7-46bd-b684-3b7006ecca34%40googlegroups.com.

[Emily Jiang]

Thank you Reza! See you on Thursday!

Emily

[Tom Jenkinson]

Providing some links to tx/microservices talks that related to MicroProfile LRA as requested yesterday.

1. The JavaOne demo: https://github.com/jbosstm/conferences/tree/master/javaone2017

2. A recording of a similar (later) talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC6fhxRX8J4 (artifacts here https://github.com/jbosstm/conferences/tree/master/devconf2018-cloud-transactions)

3. The most recent artifacts for a talk Mike did: https://github.com/jbosstm/conferences/tree/master/devconf.us.cloud-transactions

I expect the best artifacts to look at are in number 3 as they are most recent.

Thanks,

Tom

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[Michael Musgrove]

Another good place to look are the lra examples in the narayana quickstarts repo (https://github.com/jbosstm/quickstart/tree/master/rts/lra-examples). There are five distinct examples that show how to use the CDI annotations and the Java programmatic API.

Please note that the spec and APIs are still in flux so the examples are likely to be updated from time to time. They are somewhat artificial in the sense that the services and client are running in the same JVM (using JAX-RS to invoke each other). The narayana/Thorntail implementation uses coordination to implement the requirements of the spec and this component can be ran embedded with the service or can run externally depending on which quickstart you are looking at.

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[m.reza.rahman]

Thanks so much. I'll try to take a look and provide my impressions here before we meet next.

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[Michael Musgrove]

Emily, do you have a link for the recording of this session?

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[Emily Jiang]

Sorry for the delay due to holidays. Here is the link to the recording.

Thanks

Emily