Does anyone have experience with Sweet Sixteen apples?

[Prof. Kent]

I'm looking to replace my dead Fortune apple tree next spring. I'm open to suggestions as to what to buy. (Yes, I could graft a new tree but I want to jump start the age a little!)
Since the tree died quite quickly this year of fireblight I don't want a fireblight susceptible apple tree in its place. What I'd like are some suggestions for a new apple.

In the running right now are the following: SweeTango (Can't find a tree seller), Candy Crisp, Crimson Topaz (tart), SunCrisp

I'm trying to find information on Sweet16 apples. Not just the flavor but the growth habits, disease resistance, etc. Anyone out there have first hand experience growing one?

[David Taylor]

Well, as a matter of fact, Sweet Sixteen is one of my three baby apple trees that has been in the ground now for 3 summers.  So while I don't have a lot of experience with it, I can comment somewhat on the nature of how it grows.

 

Compared to my other trees, it is relatively slow growing, less than moderate vigor, and slow to produce.  My 3-year old tree is less than 6 feet high.  However, it did suffer puppy attack when first planted -- she uprooted it not once but twice and chewed the bark to where it was reduced to just a one-foot whip.  However it did recover quickly -- just has grown slowly since then.  I've also been cutting back the top by about 6-12 inches each of the first 3 winters to promote more branching.  The branches all have had a great tendency of acute angles, i.e., growing more upwards than outwards, so this variety requires diligent training of the young branches towards horizontal every season if you want the tree to produce fruit as quickly as possible and at maximum capacity.  I have not seen a single blossom in 3 years on my tree.  Hopefully I'll get a couple apples in 2013.

 

A lot of my experience could have to do with the puppy attack and my pruning methods; however, I have also heard some of the same comments of low vigor and acute angles from others in various online sources so I do think my observations are at least somewhat valid.

 

The tree has been disease free in my 3 years with it. I had a little fireblight on a Dolgo Crab branch on a different tree, but immediately pruned it off and it has not spread anywhere else in the orchard. No disease problems with any of my 3 trees, really. (At least, not yet!?)

 

Following are a few of my favorite apples that I have tasted that you might want to seriously consider (as I know *I* am considering them):

 

Arlet, a.k.a. Swiss Gourmet -- resembles a nectarine in color, and resembles Zestar or SweeTango in flavor, crispness, juiciness, etc.

Hudson's Golden Gem -- resembles a pear in russet and flavor, not buttery but crunchy like an apple should be.  I've heard it's prone to diseases.

Red Hook -- resembles black cherries in color and flavor, nutty, sweet, very soft apple that does not keep.

Sinta -- beautiful yellow apple.  Better than its parent Golden Delicious.  Tastes to me like a cross of GD and Cortland.

Zestar -- parent of SweeTango with very similar qualities.  Sort of like a tart version of Honeycrisp.

 

Unfortunately at this point I have little if any idea as to how these cultivars grow or their disease resistance -- we'd have to look into that.

 

Quick note, as long as I'm in here typing anyway... I am going to try a lot more grafting again next spring, and I am also going to plant a few seeds from my first homegrown apple, which I know can only be a cross of Cortland and Fauxwhelp.  If I can get any trees off those 9 seeds, I'll let them grow for a couple years and then graft them over to one of my existing trees so they'll fruit quicker and to get the seedlings off my hands, as I don't need a seedling tree in my small yard.  That is the plan.  Just for fun.

 

Happy apple tree planning.

 

--

Dave

[Kent Eddy]

David, Thanks for the reply. I will look into your suggestions. I have a Zestar (too young to produce yet...maybe next year. I am not too fond of early apples. Zestar is supposed to be quite good. Ginger Gold is another early apple that UMass has a video on, also Sansa and Silken.
I remember reading of Arlet as a great apple this year. I'll revisit that one. Not familiar with Sinta; never heard of Red Hook. Can't find anyone that sells SweeTango (Honeycrisp x Zestar cross).
 
I need vigorous growers since I grow most of my apples in very sandy soil, which is not conducive to vigorous growth.

That would be cool to get a cross between Cortland and Fauxwhelp. You could name it after yourself; if good, "Taylor's Tasty"...if a bitter cider apple: "Taylor's Tongue-Terrorizer".  :-)

Side Note:
I have read using a less vigorous growing scion on the top of a multi-grafted tree may be a good way to balance two grafts of different varieties on one tree. (The top of the tree grows faster than the lower branches, of course). I have a graft of a Sweet16 grafted on a Wealthy tree and it is growing very slow--low vigor due to both genetics and placement on the tree, no doubt. I mention this because I know you have mult-grafted trees and as they age the more vigorous limbs will tend to take over and/or make the tree lopsided.

- Kent

[Chip Kent]

I have a sweet16.  I agree with David's comments.  My tree is on mystery rootstock (M111?).  It is a few years old and has not flowered.  I don't know if this is a Sweet16 feature or a result of the M111.  You may have better luck on B9 or M7.  The tree does have an unusual growth habit.  I've been trying to get mine to grow as a central leader, but it has fought me the whole way.  I may give up and go with an open center.  I haven't noticed my tree growing that slowly.  Sweet16 is a good eating apple.

You can't find SweetTango because of the modern intellectual property hell we live in.  The University of Minnesota developed the apple, sold it to a commercial company, and the company now controls the tree.  This company only provides the trees to commercial orchards and they only lease the trees to the orchard.  The orchard must pay the company every year they have the tree, can't take cuttings, provide their first born kids, etc.  It is a really bad turn for us.

Zestar is my favorite early season choice.  Much better than typical early season.

The two top apples I suggest are SnowSweet and Keepsake.  They are both killer apples.  Genetic testing showed that Keepsake is a honeycrisp parent.  After a couple of years trying to find Keepsake, I was able to find it on B9 at Maple Valley Orchards.  Keepsake isn't a great commercial apple because they are small and not that attractive looking, but the taste is fantastic and they store for many many months.  SnowSweet is a fairly recent apple with great taste.  It also doesn't yellow when cut.  Last year I had a box with about 10 varieties of apples in it.  My family polished off the SnowSweet first.  They are both late season.

Maple Valley Orchards has both Keepsake and Sweet16 (http://maplevalleyorchards.com/Pages/Apple_Trees.aspx).  The trees I got from them were very good quality.  For a while, they thought they might have lost my order.  If you order from them, order soon because they do sell out, and then follow up with them in late winter.  

Chip

[Kent Eddy]

Wow. Leasing a tree. What has it come to?
I prefer how they Cripps Pink apple is marketed. They too wanted to guarantee good quality so only the largest, reddest apples are sold under the name Pink Lady. That doesn't keep them from being picked too early though. I've tried one from the big box stores. It wasn't memorable. Too many apples have no character when picked too early... or they are sour/acidic.
I think David's tree was growing central leader style. I have noticed some trees of the same varieties grow differently. I wonder if it is due to the rootstock. I have a Spigold on M7 or G30 which grows open center and 2 others on unknown rootstock (by their size they have to me MM111) which are strongly central leader. I've tried to change the central leader trees and haven't had much luck.
Thanks for the input, Chip. My brother has a very young Sweet16 which I grafted to another tree. It's growing very slowly. I think I need to move it to its own rootstock. I think moderate-to-low vigor trees should be put on MM111...then wait awhile.

- Kent

[John and Annette Trout]

I bought two sweet 16's from Cummins this past spring.  Both grew well +/- 2ft. in their perfectly amended and watered soil on the trellis.  One of them I had to completely cut back to 18" because of fireblight.  Pomme Gris did the same thing beside it.  Crimson Crisp, Honeygold, Gingergold, and Jonagold were not bothered.

But remember, this was the "Perfect Storm" for fireblight this season. 

 

No idea how it tastes.

[Tony Loftin]

If you could find SweeTango that would be first on my list. It's a great tasting apple, had some for the first time this year. They have not been available in Florida until this year. Its right up there with Honeycrisp in my opinion and on any given day I would choose it first.