ABSTRACT: THIS IS A NATIVE AMERICAN STUDIES RECOMMENDED READING LIST
CONSISTING OF TWO HUNDRED BOOKS COMPILED BY TODD TAMANEND CLARK FOR
USE IN HOME SCHOOL, HIGH SCHOOL, AND/OR COLLEGE. IF THE RESOURCES
HEREIN ARE READ AT THE RATE OF ONE VOLUME PER WEEK, THE PROJECTED
TIME OF COMPLETION WOULD BE FOUR YEARS OF STUDY, WHICH WOULD THEN BE
ONLY THE BASIC BEGINNING FOUNDATION FOR A CONTINUING PROCESS OF
LIFELONG LEARNING. (PLEASE NOTE THAT IN ADDITION TO THE VERY
WORTHWHILE PURSUIT OF SCHOLARLY ACADEMIC KNOWLEDGE, ONE ALSO NEEDS
TO REGULARLY AND RESPECTFULLY INTERACT IN PERSON WITH VARIOUS
INDIGENOUS CULTURES ON BOTH A SOCIOLOGICAL AND A SPIRITUAL LEVEL IN
ORDER TO HAVE A WELL-ROUNDED UNDERSTANDING OF THE ACTUAL APPLICATION
OF THIS INFORMATION. SERIOUS DEPROGRAMMING OF PREVIOUSLY INTERIORIZED
EUROCENTRIC PROPAGANDA FROM THE CURRENT DOMINANT COLONIAL CULTURES OF
THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE IS ALSO HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.)
THE BOOK LIST (WITH NAMES OF AUTHORS AND DATES OF PUBLICATION IN
PARENTHESIS) IS AS FOLLOWS:
A Basic Call To Consciousness (Akwesasne Notes, 1977)
A Coyote Reader (William Bright, 1993)
A Cry From The Earth: Music Of The North American Indians (John
Bierhorst, 1979)
A Little Matter Of Genocide: Holocaust And Denial In The Americas
1492 To The Present (Ward Churchill, 1997)
A Native American Encyclopedia: History, Culture, And People (Barry
Pritzker, 2000)
A Sorrow In Our Heart: The Life Of Tecumseh (Allan Eckert, 1992)
After Columbus: The Smithsonian Chronicle Of The North American
Indians (Herman Viola, 1990)
Algonquians Of The East Coast (Time-Life Books, 1995)
All Our Relations: Native Struggles For Land And Life (Winona LaDuke,
1999)
Almanac Of The Dead (Leslie Marmon Silko, 1991)
American Genesis: The American Indian And The Origins Of Modern Man
(Jeffrey Goodman, 1981)
American Holocaust: Columbus And The Conquest Of The New World (David
Stannard, 1992)
American Indian Activism: Alcatraz To The Longest Walk (Troy Johnson,
1997)
American Indian Ethnic Renewal: Red Power And The Resurgence Of
Identity And Culture (Joane Nagel, 1997)
American Indian Lacrosse: Little Brother Of War (Thomas Vennum, 1994)
American Indian Quotations (Howard Langer, 1996)
American Indian Trickster Tales (Richard Erdoes & Alfonso Ortiz, 1998)
An Illustrated Dictionary Of The Gods And Symbols Of Ancient Mexico
And The Maya (Mary Miller & Karl Taube, 1997)
Anthropology Of Love And Anger: The Aesthetics Of Conviviality In
Native Amazonia (Joanna Overing & Others, 2001)
Atlas Of Ancient America (Michael Coe & Others, 1988)
Atlas Of The North American Indian (Carl Waldman, 1985)
Aztec (Gary Jennings, 1980)
Aztec Thought And Culture: A Study Of The Ancient Nahuatl Mund (Miguel
Leon-Portilla, 1963)
Aztecs: Reign Of Blood And Splendor (Time-Life Books, 1992)
Beyond Death: The Chinchorro Mummies Of Ancient Chile (Bernardo
Arriaza, 1995)
Blue Jacket: Warrior Of The Shawnees (John Sugden, 2000)
Breaking The Maya Code (Michael Coe, 1992)
Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee: An Indian History Of The American West
(Dee Brown, 1970)
Chronicle Of The Maya Kings And Queens (Simon Martin & Nikolai Grube,
2000)
Chroniclers Of Indian Life (Time-Life Books, 1996)
Cycles Of Life (Time-Life Books, 1994)
Crazy Horse: The Strange Man Of The Oglalas [Fiftieth Anniversary
Edition] (Mari Sandoz, 1992)
Dictionary Of Native American Mythology (Sam Gill & Irene Sullivan,
1992)
Encyclopedia Of American Indian Civil Rights (James Stuart Olson &
Others, 1997)
Encyclopedia Of American Indian Contributions To The World: Fifteen
Thousand Years Of Inventions And Innovations (Emory Dean Keoke & Kay
Marie Porterfield, 2001)
Encyclopedia Of Ancient Mesoamerica (Margaret Bunson & Stephen Bunson,
1996)
Encyclopedia Of Native American Healing (William Lyon, 1997)
Encyclopedia Of Native American Shamanism: Sacred Ceremonies Of North
America (William Lyon, 1998)
Encyclopedia Of Native American Tribes [Revised Edition] (Carl
Waldman, 1999)
Encyclopedia Of North American Indians (Frederick Hoxie & Others,
1996)
Encyclopedia Of The Haudenosaunee (Bruce Johansen & Barbara Mann,
2000)
Encyclopedia Of Women: A To Z Of Native American Women (Liz Sonneborn,
1998)
Exiled In The Land Of The Free: Democracy, Indian Nations, And The
United States Constitution (Oren Lyons & Others, 1992)
Exploring Mesoamerica (John Pohl, 1999)
Exploring Native North America (David Hurst Thomas, 2000)
Faces In The Forest: First Nations Art Carved On Living Trees (Michael
Blackstock, 2001)
Fifteen Poets Of The Aztec World (Miguel Leon-Portilla, 1992)
First Fire: Central And South American Indian Poetry (Hugh Fox, 1978)
Five Hundred Nations: An Illustrated History Of North American Indians
(Alvin Josephy, 1994)
Flute Of The Smoking Mirror: A Portrait Of Nezahualcoyotl, Poet-King
Of The Aztecs (Frances Gillmor, 1983)
From A Native Son: Selected Essays On Indigenism (Ward Churchill,
1996)
Gender And Power In Prehispanic Mesoamerica (Rosemary Joyce, 2001)
Ghost Dancing The Law: The Wounded Knee Trials (John Sayer, 1997)
Gods Of Sun And Sacrifice: Aztec And Maya Myth (Time-Life Books, 1997)
Handbook Of North American Indians: Northeast (Smithsonian
Institution,
1978)
Handbook Of North American Indians: Technology And Visual Arts
(Smithsonian Institution, 1978)
Harper's Anthology Of Twentieth Century Native American Poetry (Duane
Niatum & Others, 1988)
Hidden Cities: The Discovery And Loss Of Ancient North American
Civilization (Roger Kennedy, 1994)
Hopi Katchina Dolls And Their Carvers (Theda Bassman & Gene Balzer,
1991)
House Made Of Dawn (N. Scott Momaday, 1968)
Hunters Of The Northern Forest (Time-Life Books, 1995)
In The Spirit Of Crazy Horse (Peter Matthiessen, 1983)
Incas: Lords Of Gold And Glory (Time-Life Books, 1992)
Indian Givers: How The Indians Of The Americas Transformed The World
(Jack Weatherford, 1988)
Indians In Pennsylvania (Paul Wallace, 1961)
Indians Of The Western Range (Time-Life Books, 1995)
Indigenism: Ethnic Politics In Brazil (Alcida Ramos, 1998)
Indigenous Aesthetics: Native Art Media And Identity (Steven Leuthold,
1998)
Indigenous South Americans Of The Past And Present: An Ecological
Perspective (David Wilson, 1998)
Indigenous Struggle At The Heart Of Brazil: State Policy, Frontier
Expansion, And The Xavante Indians, 1937-1988 (Seth Garfielf, 2001)
Iroquois Music And Dance: Ceremonial Arts Of Two Seneca Longhouses
(Gertrude Kurath, 1964)
Keepers Of The Totem (Time-Life Books, 1993)
Lakota Woman [Second Edition] (Mary Crow Dog, 1994)
Learning To Be An Anthropologist And Remaining Native (Beatrice
Medicine & Others, 2001)
Like A Hurricane: The Indian Movement From Alcatraz To Wounded Knee
(Paul Chaat Smith & Robert Allen Warrior, 1996)
Llamas, Weavings, And Organic Chocolate: Multicultural Grassroots
Development In The Andes And Amazon Of Bolivia (Kevin Healy, 2001)
Lost Kingdoms Of The Maya (Gene Stuart & George Stuart, 1993)
Loud Hawk: The United States Versus The American Indian Movement
(Kenneth Stern, 1994)
Mankiller: A Chief And Her People [Trade Paperback Edition] (Wilma
Mankiller & Michael Wallis, 1999)
Manual For The Peacemaker: An Iroquois Legend To Heal Self And Society
(Jean Houston, 1995)
Mexico: From The Olmecs To The Aztecs [Fourth Edition] (Michael Coe,
1994)
Mother Earth, Father Sky: Native American Myth (Time-Life Books, 1997)
Mound Builders And Cliff Dwellers (Time-Life Books, 1992)
Mound Builders Of Ancient America: The Archaeology Of A Myth (Robert
Silverberg, 1968)
Mysteries Of The Hopewell: Astronomers, Geometers, And Magicians Of
The Eastern Woodlands (William Romain, 2000)
National Museum Of Anthropology: Mexico City (Newsweek, 1970)
Native America In The Twentieth Century: An Encyclopedia (Mary Davis,
1994)
Native American Art (William Ketchum, 1997)
Native American Art In The Twentieth Century (W. Jack Rushing, 1999)
Native American History: A Chronology Of A Culture's Vast Achievements
And Their Links To World Events (Judith Nies, 1996)
Native American Identities: From Stereotype To Archetype In Art And
Literature (Scott Vickers, 1998)
Native American Literatures: An Encyclopedia Of Works, Characters,
Authors, And Themes (Kathy Whitson, 1999)
Native American Postcolonial Psychology (Eduardo Duran & Bonnie Duran,
1995)
Native American Religion (Nancy Bonvillian, 1996)
Native American Women: A Biographical Dictionary [Second Edition]
(Gretchen Batielle & Laurie Lisa, 2001)
Native Mesoamerican Spirituality (Miguel Leon-Portilla & Others, 1980)
Native Religions And Cultures Of North America: Anthropology Of The
Sacred (Lawrence Sullivan & Others, 2000)
Native Roots: How The Indians Enriched America (Jack Weatherford,
1991)
Native Time: A Historical Time Line Of Native America (Lee Francis,
1996)
Natives And Academics: Researching And Writing About American Indians
(Devon Mihesuah & Others, 1998)
North American Indian Jewelry And Adornment (Lois Sherr Dubin &
Others, 1999)
Our Word Is Our Weapon (Subcomandante Marcos, 2001)
Painting The Maya Universe: Royal Ceramics Of The Classic Period
(Dorie Reents-Budet & Others, 1994)
Parker On The Iroquois (Arthur Caswell Parker, 1968)
Peace, Power, Righteousness: An Indigenous Manifesto (Taiaiake Alfred,
1999)
People Of The Dancing Sky: The Iroquois Way (Myron Zabol & Others,
2000)
People Of The Desert (Time-Life Books, 1993)
People Of The Ice And Snow (Time-Life Books, 1994)
People Of The Lakes (Time-Life Books, 1994)
People Of The Peyote: Huichol Indian History, Religion, And Survival
(Stacy Schaefer & Peter Furst, 1996)
Popul Vuh: The Definitive Edition Of The Mayan Book Of The Dawn Of
Life And The Glories Of Gods And Kings (Dennis Tedlock, 2001)
Prison Writings: My Life Is My Sundance (Leonard Peltier, 1999)
Profiles In Wisdom: Native Elders Speak About The Earth (Steven
McFadden, 2000)
Racial Revolutions: Antiracism And Indian Resurgence In Brazil
(Jonathan Wartren, 2001)
Realm Of The Iroquois (Time-Life Books, 1993)
Red Power: The American Indians' Fight For Freedom [Second Edition]
(Alvin Josephy & Others, 1999)
Reinventing The Enemy's Language: Contemporary Native Women's Writings
Of North America (Joy Harjo & Others, 1997)
Reservation X (Gerald McMaster, 1999)
Sacred Geography Of The American Mound Builders (Maureen Korp, 1990)
Seneca Myths And Folk Tales (Arthur Caswell Parker, 1923)
Shaking The Pumpkin: Traditional Poetry Of The Indian North Americas
(Jerome Rothenberg & Others, 1986)
Shaking The Rattle: Healing The Trauma Of Colonization (Barbara-Helen
Hill, 1996)
Shawnee: The Ceremonialism Of A Native American Tribe And Its Cultural
Background (James Howard, 1981)
Sisters In Spirit: Iroquois Influences On Early Feminists (Sally
Roesch Wagner, 2001)
Skywatchers: A Revised And Updated Version Of Skywatchers Of Ancient
Mexico (Anthony Aveni, 2001)
Skywoman: Legends Of The Iroquois (Joanne Shenandoah & Others, 1998)
Spider Woman's Grandaughters: Traditional Tales And Contemporary
Writing By Native American Women (Paula Gunn Allen & Others, 1989)
Spirit And Reason: The Vine Deloria, Junior, Reader (Vine Deloria,
Junior, 1999)
Spirit Of The Earth: Native Cooking From Latin America (Beverly Cox &
Martin Jacobs, 2001)
Spirit Of The Harvest: North American Indian Cooking (Beverly Cox &
Martin Jacobs, 1991)
Spirit Wars: Native North American Religions In The Age Of Nation
Building (Ronald Niezen & Others, 2000)
Star Gods Of The Maya: Astronomy In Art, Folklore, And Calendars
(Susan Milbrath, 1999)
Stars Of The First People: Native American Star Myths And
Constellations (Dorcas Miller, 1997)
Stolen Continents: The Americas Through Indian Eyes Since 1492 (Ronald
Wright, 1992)
Tales Of The Plumed Serpent: Aztec, Inca, And Mayan Myths (Diana
Ferguson, 2000)
Tecumseh: A Life (John Sugen, 1997)
Teotihuacan: An Experiment In Living (Esther Pasztory, 1997)
That Dark And Bloody River: Chronicles Of The Ohio River Valley (Allan
Eckert, 1995)
The Art Of The Native American Flute (R. Carlos Nakai & James Demars,
1996)
The Aztecs (Michael Smith, 1996)
The Biographical Directory Of Native American Painters (Patrick
Lester,
1995)
The Blood Of Kings: Dynasty And Ritual In Mayan Art (Linda Schele &
Others, 1992)
The Buffalo Hunters (Time-Life Books, 1993)
The Cities Of The Ancient Andes (Adriana Von Hagen & Craig Morris,
1998)
The Code Of Kings: The Language Of Seven Sacred Maya Temples And Tombs
(Linda Schele & Others, 1998)
The Cosmos Of The Yucatec Maya: Cycles And Steps From The Madrid Codex
(Merideth Paxton, 2001)
The Cultures Of Native North Americans (Christian Feest & Others,
2000)
The Death And Rebirth Of The Seneca (Anthony Wallace, 1969)
The Delaware Indians: A History (C. A. Weslager, 1972)
The Encyclopedia Of Native American Biography: Six Hundred Stories Of
Important People, From Powhatan To Wilma Mankiller (Bruce Johansen &
Donald Grinde, 1998)
The Encyclopedia Of Native American Religions (Arlene Hirschfelder &
Paulette Molin, 1992)
The European Challenge (Time-Life Books, 1992)
The False Faces Of The Iroquois (William Fenton, 1991)
The First Americans (Time-Life Books, 1992)
The Grandfathers Speak: Native American Folk Tales Of The Lenape
People
(Hitakonanu'Laxk, 1994)
The Heart As A Drum: Continuance And Resistance In American Indian
Poetry (Robin Riley Fast, 1999)
The Indians Of California (Time-Life Books, 1994)
The Iroquois (Barbara Graymont, 1988)
The Iroquois (Dean Snow, 1994)
The Lenape (Robert Grumet, 1989)
The Lords Of Tikal: Rulers Of An Ancient Mayan City (Peter Harrison,
1999)
The Magnificent Maya (Time-Life Books, 1993)
The Maya [Fifth Edition] (Michael Coe, 1993)
The Mighty Chieftains (Time-Life Books, 1993)
The Native American Almanac: A Portrait Of Native America Today
(Arlene Hirschfelder & Martha Kreipe De Montano, 1993)
The Native Americans: An Illustrated History (David Hurst Thomas &
Others, 1993)
The Native North American Almanac (Duane Champagne & Others, 1994)
The Natural History Of The Soul In Ancient Mexico (Jill
McKeever-Furst, 1995)
The Olmec World: Ritual And Rulership (Michael Coe, 1996)
The Ordeal Of The Longhouse: The Peoples Of The Iroquois League In The
Era Of European Colonization (Daniel Richter, 1992)
The Patriot Chiefs: A Chronicle Of American Indian Resistance [Revised
Edition] (Alvin Josephy, 1994)
The Reservations (Time-Life Books, 1995)
The Rights Of Indians And Tribes: The Basic ACLU Guide To Indian
Tribal Rights [Second Edition] (Stephen Pevar, 1992)
The Sacred Hoop: Recovering The Feminine In American Indian Traditions
(Paula Gunn Allen, 1986)
The Secret Of The Incas: Myth, Astronomy, And The War Against Time
(William Sullivan, 1996)
The Shawnee Prophet (R. David Edmunds, 1983)
The Spirit World (Time-Life Books, 1992)
The State Of Native America: Genocide, Colonization, And Resistance
(M. Annette Jaimes & Others, 1992)
The Telling Of The World: Native American Stories And Art (W. S. Penn
& Others, 1996)
The Trickster Shift: Humor And Irony In Contemporary Native Art (Allan
Ryan, 1999)
The Way Of The Spirit: Nature, Myth, And Magic In Native American Life
(Time-Life Books, 1997)
The Way Of The Warrior (Time-Life Books, 1993)
The Woman's Way (Time-Life Books, 1995)
The World Of The American Indian [Revised Edition] (National
Geographic Society, 1993)
The World Of Tupac Amaru: Conflict, Community, And Identity In
Colonial Peru (Ward Stavig, 1999)
Through Indian Eyes: The Untold Story Of Native American Peoples
(Reader's Digest, 1995)
Time And Reality In The Thought Of The Maya [Enlarged Edition]
(Miguel Leon-Portilla, 1988)
Timelines Of Native American History (Carl Waldman, 1994)
Trail Of Tears: The Rise And Fall Of The Cherokee Nation (John Ehle,
1988)
Tribes Of The Southern Plains (Time-Life Books, 1995)
Tribes Of The Southern Woodlands (Time-Life Books, 1994)
Voices Of The Winds: Native American Legends (Margot Edmonds & Ella
Clark, 1989)
War For The Plains (Time-Life Books, 1994)
Where The Gods Reign: Plants And Peoples Of The Columbian Amazon
(Richard Schultes, 1990)
Where White Men Fear To Tread: The Autobiography Of Russell Means
(Russell Means & Martin Wolf, 1995)
Who Was Who In Native American History: Indians And Non-Indians From
Early Contact Through 1900 (Carl Waldman, 1990)
Wilderness: The True Story Of Simon Girty, Renegade (Timothy Truman,
1990)
Winds Of Renewal (Time-Life Books, 1996)
Word Dance: The Language Of Native American Culture (Carl Waldman,
1994)
Year 501: The Conquest Continues (Noam Chomsky, 1993)
X TECUMSEH CLARK
ELECTRONIC KEYBOARD PLAYER FOR (AND SON OF) TODD TAMANEND CLARK
FAYETTE COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA, TURTLE ISLAND
http://www.loopersdelight.com/cgi-bin/profiles.cgi?step=view_all
In appreciation Jim Bright Thunder
I'll be sure and relay your kind comments to my father.
He is very busy now preparing for the next phase of our
custody battle for my nearly two year old brother Nemmy
(Nemacolin).
The mother wishes to raise him as an acculturated apple,
and my father wishes to raise him as a traditional. The
oppositional attorneys and home evaluators have been
merciless in using my father's thirty-five years of
activism against him, even though he has already done a
great job raising us five older kids on his own.
X TECUMSEH CLARK
ELECTRONIC KEYBOARD PLAYER FOR TODD TAMANEND CLARK
Aloha short reading list....Lisa D.....
"lisa dillon" <lisa_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:18c10f6f.02031...@posting.google.com...
Hae' Lisa,
When I find time, I will eventually post my father's additional
lists of films, food, and music recordings on or by indigenous
western hemisphere cultures.
Basically, in order to preserve our cultures, my father
recommends doing each of the following on a weekly basis:
1) Read and study one book.
2) Watch and analyze one film.
3) Listen to and analyze one compact disc.
4) Memorize one new word of one's native language.
5) Cook one new precolumbian recipe.
6) Practice percussion, vocables, and/or flute.
7) Play a traditional indigenous sport.
8) Create a work of art, craft, dance, or song.
--
X TECUMSEH CLARK
KEYBOARD PLAYER FOR TODD TAMANEND CLARK
--
Randy RedFish
.
(In the Spirit of Crazy Horse)
.
http://home.swbell.net/red_fish/Indians_Discovered_America.html
.
"X Tecumseh Clark" <tecu...@charterpa.net> wrote in message
news:73128d97.02031...@posting.google.com...
Well, as long as no other books, films, or CDs are produced or added to your
"short" list in the near future, we should be able to complete this task
within about 4 years, with the exception of item #4....
LOL....seriously, your reading list is very much appreciated. I like this
recommendation from your father too! And of course, I am sure we all look
forward to the amendments to your various lists on music and books and
films!
JRWolf
[Sorry to piggyback on Lisa's post, but the original has disappeared from my
server. ]
Thanks for the list, lots of interesting books to think about. But a couple
of questions on a couple of specific items --
>> Crazy Horse: The Strange Man Of The Oglalas [Fiftieth Anniversary
>> Edition] (Mari Sandoz, 1992)
Great book which I read many years ago and reread every now and then. Is
there something special about this 50th edition that I should check out,
like additional history or sources?
>> Handbook Of North American Indians: Northeast (Smithsonian
>> Institution,
>> 1978)
Anything particular about this one region among a large and ongoing project
with about 10 regional volumes, most already published?
Point is Fox Hunting has always been a big sport and a source of mail
deliuvery in Great Britains upper circles.
Surtee and Nimrod.
I digress,
Today I went to University of Washington, it was closed for
SpringBreak.I was looking for moreinformation on Alabama Claims aka
shenedoah,
A gent asked me directions to Kane Hall, where the society of
Opthamology was having its annual meeting, discussing grave affects of
contact lenses and such.
A pair of Eagles was flying over Red Square.One had a smalllarge
mouthed bass in its claws, an adult bald ,and tried to pass it off to
a spotted eagle youngster.but the seagulls and crows were bombing and
annoying thehand off!
The youngster dropped the hand off,and I went onto see what was
cooking at Kane Hall!Eyeballs!
well when I left, their was a lonely crow peckin at the bass,the
eaglers had left it.
just a thought, alabama bass fishin is amazingly similiar to BC Land
claims when it comes to fact or fiction.the seven dwarfs are seven
islands called indian tribes ,and these seven bridges have been
burned.
Snow white is like corpus christie, what natives can expect in the
form of help from the Government concerning these obfuscations
(hidingthe facts)
Alabama Claims is the El Dorado of Native land claims,and
International Fisheries is the status quo of scientific and political
informations concerning .
Arctic Graylings of Alaska,1986 final solution concerning the public
drain culvert and artic graylings use of said culvert to migrate ie
spawn..
The point is allof these governments are signator to the UN Charters
of Human Rights!If you want your land claims recognized, mention your
knowledge of these practices concerning the song no one could sing but
the KKK initiates!
Oh Susanah , don't you cry for me, I come from alabama , with my banjo
on my knee.
I am trying to be serious, but it is so absurd can't help but laugh
atthe preposterous possibility of ever discoveringthese "secrets"
everyone knows except those it is all about?
good luck in deciphering what is crap nd what is real as it is
interspersed between jones and smith smith being as full of crap as
jones,but Tait has some exact precise locations as well as Franz Boaz
to the location of hidings concerning natives of british columbia read
the italics and the latin closely.
and think in termns of coyote is a white soldiuer laughing at you .
then you will have some idea of the arayan origin of so called native
mythology, a way to communicate the delicate subjects of land titles
and other scholarly pursuits, good luck and keep livin,
no need get angry get even,they been tryin to make a ravin luntic
faggot outta me all my life, I wouldn't know what to think if they
weren't?
so what!I aint no fortunate one.
Whomas Ndakm Nooka Nookwha!
EEah huh!
This has happened to a lot of my father's and my posts
over the last few months.
We would really like to know the cause of this.
Is it deliberate censorship, or is it some malfunction of
the newsgroup server?
> Thanks for the list, lots of interesting books to think
> about. But a couple of questions on a couple of specific
> items -
>
> > Crazy Horse: The Strange Man Of The Oglalas [Fiftieth
> > Anniversary Edition] (Mari Sandoz, 1992)
>
> Great book which I read many years ago and reread every
> now and then. Is there something special about this 50th
> edition that I should check out, like additional history
> or sources?
The new material pretty much only consists of the
introduction and the cover painting and perhaps a slight
degree of editing.
> > Handbook Of North American Indians: Northeast
> > (Smithsonian Institution, 1978)
>
> Anything particular about this one region among a large
> and ongoing project with about ten regional volumes, most
> already published?
All of the volumes are excellent, it's just that the
northeast is the region that my family is indigenous to.
My dad said he really should have included them all, but
they're out of print and very expensive when you can find
them, and he would have had to drop other more readily
available books from the list to stay at two hundred.
----
X TECUMSEH CLARK
KEYBOARDIST for TODD TAMANEND CLARK
FAYETTE COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
http://www.loopersdelight.com/cgi-bin/profiles.cgi?step=view_all
X Tecumseh Clark wrote >...
>> "ggull" wrote :
>>
>> [Sorry to piggyback on Lisa's post, but the original has
>> disappeared from my server.]
>
>This has happened to a lot of my father's and my posts
>over the last few months.
>
>We would really like to know the cause of this.
>
>Is it deliberate censorship, or is it some malfunction of
>the newsgroup server?
I'm often puzzled by finding "conversations" I seem to have come in in the
middle of, with the first post(s) missing, on this and other groups. I
don't think they're picking just on you ;-), more likely some glitch in the
software, most likely on the server I use to read ngs. In any event, they
only seem to keep a certain total kB of any one group available, which can
be a few days to a few weeks depending on traffic.
>
>> > Handbook Of North American Indians: Northeast
>> > (Smithsonian Institution, 1978)
>>
>> Anything particular about this one region among a large
>> and ongoing project with about ten regional volumes, most
>> already published?
>
>All of the volumes are excellent, it's just that the
>northeast is the region that my family is indigenous to.
>My dad said he really should have included them all, but
>they're out of print and very expensive when you can find
>them,
I just did a search on abebooks.com, and ... ouch. I was lucky enough to
get a couple of volumes cheaper than just about anything I saw there. I
think amazon.com also gives more reasonable prices for used copies. Still,
not cheap, but not cheap to even print.
sondra
http://www.sondra.net
On 8 Apr 2002 18:07:19 -0700, tecu...@charterpa.net (X Tecumseh
You are, of course, right. Those posts are there forever, whether we like
it or not ;-).
I mainly use google groups for research and checking old posts, not for my
main read. It doesn't provide (or I haven't figured out how to get) a true
(branching) threaded display, just gloms everything in a thread into a
single chronological sequence. But it does have a great advanced search
engine. (It lets you search both by originating address and "screen name",
handy if you're trying to follow the postings of some of the quick change
artists around here.)
A large number of my father's and my posts have disappeared
prematurely from many (but not all) of the newsgroups provided by
news.charter.net on our Outlook Express e-mail window. We've
discovered only two so far that have disappeared from the Google
archives: one on native foods available in the modern grocery
store and one on native-oriented aromatherapy products. (We can
only guess that perhaps these were deleted because he mentioned
specific brand names.)
> You are, of course, right. Those posts are there forever,
> whether we like it or not ;-).
And the opposing parties in my father's custody case for my
baby brother don't hesitate for a minute to use them against him
in court!
> I mainly use google groups for research and checking old posts,
> not for my main read. It doesn't provide (or I haven't figured
> out how to get) a true (branching) threaded display, just gloms
> everything in a thread into a single chronological sequence.
> But it does have a great advanced search engine.
We use Outlook Express for reading current messages and Google for
posting responses, even though there is a nine hour delay. For the
past several months whenever we try to post from Outlook Express,
nothing shows up. Sometimes it doesn't even show up on Google,
which is why we have several dozen cryptic test messages in the
archives. Also, Google claims that they get too much e-mail to
answer any inquiries into the matter.
This must be very frustrating. AFIK, Google will delete specific messages
from their archive only on specific request -- there is a posted policy.
Did your disappeared messages say anything about the brands that might have
led them to request removal as defamatory or ...? Is news.charter.net part
of your ISP or a 3rd party news server?
>We use Outlook Express for reading current messages and Google for
>posting responses, even though there is a nine hour delay. For the
>past several months whenever we try to post from Outlook Express,
>nothing shows up.
Very weird. Have you tried different software to see if posts go through
(while still using the same server)? I don't think I've had a post go
missing with Outlook Express (still use an old version), at least if it's in
my "sent items" folder as having gone out.
I'm far from an expert, though, and it seems like some of the real experts
like Floyd have taken a vacation from alt.native.
>> "ggull" wrote in message news when:
>We use Outlook Express for reading current messages and Google for
>posting responses, even though there is a nine hour delay. For the
>past several months whenever we try to post from Outlook Express,
>nothing shows up. Sometimes it doesn't even show up on Google,
>which is why we have several dozen cryptic test messages in the
>archives. Also, Google claims that they get too much e-mail to
>answer any inquiries into the matter.
It might the newsgroup reader that your ISP server uses. When I had
Jaguarsystems as my ISP, before Mindspring bought them out (after
wwhich earthlink bought out mindspring), I used to have a lot of
trouble with getting much of the stuff from alt.native -- and from my
Babylon Five newsgroup too, for that matter. Mindspring took over and
everything ran smoothly. Earthlink took over (although they haven't
changed any mindspring e-mail addresses, which happened when
mindspring bought out Jaguar) and I have trouble again -- but not as
much as with Jaguarsystems. I really think it's not so much a matter
of censorship as of imcompetence. That doesn't mean I believe there
is never censorship. I'm not that naive. But I think that, quite
often, what appears to be censorship is really just carelessness.
Oh yes -- and before Jagursystems bought out our first ISP server,
whose name I've forgotten, we had no trouble with newsgroups at all.
sondra
http://www.sondra.net
>A large number of my father's and my posts have disappeared
>prematurely from many (but not all) of the newsgroups provided by
>news.charter.net on our Outlook Express e-mail window. We've
>discovered only two so far that have disappeared from the Google
>archives: one on native foods available in the modern grocery
>store and one on native-oriented aromatherapy products. (We can
>only guess that perhaps these were deleted because he mentioned
>specific brand names.)
Dear X Tecumseh Clark:
First off, please pass my regards to your Dad. I hope he (and
your family) are doing well.
As for the disappearing messages, it isn't the fault of your
software, but of your newsfeed (which, presumably, is from your
internet provider). Many internet providers--particularly the smaller
ones--reserve very little space on their servers for text newsgroups
(like alt.native). Because of this, newer messages quickly bump off
older ones. If the space allocated by your internet provider for
alt.native is small, messages might disappear after only a couple of
days.
The bad news is that anyone reading alt.native from your
internet provider must check the new messages every one or two days if
s/he wants to read everything. Otherwise they might come and go
before they log on to read them.
The good news is that this probably only affects people
reading alt.native from your internet provider. The fact that you can
find your messages in Google suggests that they are getting out. So
people with internet providers with better newsfeeds (i.e. with more
server space allocated for alt.native) will see your messages for a
much longer time than you see them from your internet provider.
If you want, you can get your newsfeed from a different
company than from your internet provider (without having to change
internet providers or your email address). All you have to do is
establish an account with them and enter their server address and your
login information into your newsgroup software.
That's what I do. For less than $15 per month, you can get a
complete newsfeed. I use Giganews (www.giganews.com) and am able to
download up to 6 GB a month for $11.95. There are several others that
offer a complete newsfeed for reasonable prices. Newsfeeds
(www.newsfeeds.com) is but one example of many.
Another possible solution is to write to your internet
provider and tell them that messages are being bumped off too quickly.
You might be able to persuade them to allocate more server space for
alt.native.
Let me know if you have any questions. I'll be happy to
answer them if I can.
Hope this helps,
Mac
(Copy sent via email.)
-----------------------------------------------------
WILLIAM MC LAUGHLIN
vaga...@voicenet.com
Affiliation: Card-carrying member of the Whiteboy Tribe
Indian Name: Running Joke
Power Animal: Brontosaurus (mine's bigger!)
-----------------------------------------------------
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil
interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the
National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping
of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall
Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua
for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912
(where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the
Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I
helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
---Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler, U.S.M.C. - 1933
Tools -> Options -> Maintenance -> Delete News Messages xx days
after being downloaded
perhaps this setting is set to something short like 5
days....Just a thought. I did notice for awhile that Charter was
having some real problems with their service too (at least in
this area).
JRWolf
"William McLaughlin" <vaga...@voicenet.com> wrote in message
news:pkbebu03hlu51g2nc...@4ax.com...
>It might the newsgroup reader that your ISP server uses. When I had
>Jaguarsystems as my ISP, before Mindspring bought them out (after
>wwhich earthlink bought out mindspring), I used to have a lot of
>trouble with getting much of the stuff from alt.native -- and from my
>Babylon Five newsgroup too, for that matter. Mindspring took over and
>everything ran smoothly. Earthlink took over (although they haven't
>changed any mindspring e-mail addresses, which happened when
>mindspring bought out Jaguar) and I have trouble again -- but not as
>much as with Jaguarsystems. I really think it's not so much a matter
>of censorship as of imcompetence. That doesn't mean I believe there
>is never censorship. I'm not that naive. But I think that, quite
>often, what appears to be censorship is really just carelessness.
Dear Sondra:
I suspect that with each change of ownership they either got a
new newsadmin or they changed their newsgroup policy (i.e. in terms of
how much server space was allocated for the various newsgroups), or
they just changed which newsfeed their users were accessing.
In other words, when it was Jaguarsystems, they had a lousy
newsfeed. When they were bought by Mindspring they probably started
using their newsfeed, since it was apparently better. When Earthlink
bought them they probably switched again to Earthlink's newsfeed
which, apparently, isn't as good.
As I said in my other message in this thread, you can get an
outside newsfeed which will mean that you get virtually all messages
posted to your favorite newsgroups and know that they'll be retained
long enough, so that you don't have to log on every day (or even every
week) in order to see messages before they're bumped off.
Hope this helps,
Mac
P.S. I hope you're healing well--both physically and emotionally.