New Theorem Maps out the Limits of Quantum Physics

[Rigpa]

Posting for those that are interested. Thoughts?

https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-theorem-maps-out-the-limits-of-quantum-physics-20201203/

[Eugene I]

Yes, the first Wigner's friend experiments have been done a few years ago, but as usual more sophisticated tests need to be performed to close the loopholes. But they are confirming the same conclusion: the "physical" reality cannot be local and objective (and not splitting into many worlds) at the same time. One of those assumptions has to be dropped. Dropping locality also means dropping causality, another cornerstone of classical physicalism. In simple words, if a single non-splitting objective mind-independent material world would really exist, it would have to be non-local and non-causal. I can't imagine what kind of "matter" could that possibly be. But of course another backdoor is the many-world interpretation which is able to get away from such challenging conclusions cleanly, as usual. 

[Eugene I]

More details here: A no-go theorem for observer-independent facts

[Eugene I]

<<But of course another backdoor is the many-world interpretation which is able to get away from such challenging conclusions cleanly, as usual. >>

However, there are two serious problems with MWI:

1. A "measurement event" explanatory gap. MWI postulates that the universe splits when a quantum measurement occurs. But what is exactly a quantum measurement (QMm)? 

               - Many physicists argue that there should not be anything special about a QMm, and a QMm is simply a regular QM event/phenomenon such as an interaction of a particle or a small quantum system (sample) with a more complex "measurement apparatus (MA)" system . So why one kind of QM event (like emission of a photon) does not split the universe, and a QMm event does?

              - Some physicists argue that for a measurement to occur, there must be an act of observation of the measurement result by consciousness. However, from physicalist point of view, consciousness is only an epiphenomenon of a complex physical system (brain). So, why and how an epiphenomenon would cause a universe to split? And how "conscious" the consciousness must be to split the universe? Will an observation of a measurement result by amoeba split the universe, or an insect, or an animal, or only a human?

            - Other physicists argue that a measurement is simply an interaction of a sample with a "measurement apparatus (MA)". But how do we define a MA? How complex a system must be to become a MA? Does a system of 100 molecules becomes a MA, but a system of 99 molecules still does not? The answer must be "yes" or "no", we can not say "this system is kind of a MA", because the universe split is a binary event, it either occurs or it does not.

2. Consider a double split experiment where a wave function of an electron is measured by a spherical screen around the slit, with a radius of the screen of 1 km. Every detectable point on the screen will represent a distinct result of the measurement. Arguably, two points are distinct if they are separated by more than the Plank's length. In this case the number of distinct measurement results will be the ratio of the detector surface area to the Plank area (the square of the Plank length), which is equal to 10^76. This means that each act of the electron position measurement on the detector will split the universe into 10^76 universes. It's about as many as the number of atoms in the whole universe. Does it make any sense?           

On Thursday, December 3, 2020 at 11:21:15 PM UTC-5 Eugene I wrote:

[David Sundaram]

Consider a double split experiment where a wave function of an electron is measured by a spherical screen around the slit, with a radius of the screen of 1 km. Every detectable point on the screen will represent a distinct result of the measurement. Arguably, two points are distinct if they are separated by more than the Plank's length. In this case the number of distinct measurement results will be the ratio of the detector surface area to the Plank area (the square of the Plank length), which is equal to 10^76. This means that each act of the electron position measurement on the detector will split the universe into 10^76 universes. It's about as many as the number of atoms in the whole universe. Does it make any sense?

I have 'considered' the value of the implications of the results of said all-possibilities-simultanously-coexist-in-'everywhere' suggesting experiment.

My response: Come 'out' of the ultimately-going-nowhere-meaningful rabbit-holes that uncertainty-aversion 'leads' peeps to 'mentally' retreat into, and splash-swim around 'in' the All-Souls palpably-Flowing together River of Life instead.

This is the invitation Jesus verbally articulated when he said: "If any man thirst, let him come unto me,* and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."  (John Chapter 7). The water's just fine! 

* Explainicating 😃 Jesus's 'me' for the uninitiuted, from my treatise:  "Souls ‘graduate’ from [physical]-life’s ‘school’ when their reincarnational learning and development ‘curriculum’ has ... been completed. Having real ized their Cosmic ‘I’dentity (termed ‘Christhood’ by some and spoken of  as [every]one’s ‘Buddha Nature’ by others) to be The Spirit of Life Itself,  such souls operationally function as full-fledged colleagues of what Jesus referenced as ‘the Father’ from then on. Those who have grasped the fact  that the pronouns I and me as used in Jesus’ statements actually reference The Entity (i.e., the entirety) of Life’s Flow – Why? Because, as elucidated in Chapter 1, he personally completely ‘i’dentified with It ! – who now also grok the fact that the above-described reincarnational learning-and development-leading-to-graduation process is what ‘leads’ to such collegial  recombination, will have no trouble recognizing that it is said all encompassing Flow-phenom, and not himself personally, that Jesus was referencing when he emphatically declared: 'I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me !' (John 14:6)"

[martin...@gmail.com]

2. Consider a double split experiment where a wave function of an electron is measured by a spherical screen around the slit, with a radius of the screen of 1 km. Every detectable point on the screen will represent a distinct result of the measurement. Arguably, two points are distinct if they are separated by more than the Plank's length. In this case the number of distinct measurement results will be the ratio of the detector surface area to the Plank area (the square of the Plank length), which is equal to 10^76. This means that each act of the electron position measurement on the detector will split the universe into 10^76 universes. It's about as many as the number of atoms in the whole universe. Does it make any sense?           

now do that a million times, which shouldnt take more than a second with a good setup, and you get (10^76)^1000'000 .  

That's for one second, in a single lab, in a billion-year old universe. 

That's a lot of angels dancing on the head of the pin...

[Brad Walker]

There is no essence of you, because you're just an archetypal homo sapiens spawning a virtually infinite quantum family. You're one random member of said quantum family, fated to whatever multiverse branch's destiny is in store. Miraculously your multiverse branch is kept divergent from all other multiverse branches. Bon appetit!

[David Sundaram]

On Friday, December 4, 2020 at 9:11:17 PM UTC-7 Brad Walker wrote:

There is no essence of you, because you're just an archetypal homo sapiens spawning a virtually infinite quantum family. You're one random member of said quantum family, fated to whatever multiverse branch's destiny is in store. Miraculously your multiverse branch is kept divergent from all other multiverse branches. Bon appetit!

To be precise (instead of just going along with your attempt at broad-brush obfuscation here, for nihilistic reasons maybe?, Brad):  Life is Being-Doing. The 'essence' of Life is 'Life'. From my book: "Life is Creativity, and Creativity is Causal Purpose in action."

I personally 'sense' its 'essence' or 'nature' to be, and  so characterize it as 'Love-and-Joy'. From my treatise: " The main aim or goal of said Essence’s ‘program’– the primary motive (i.e. desire) ensconced in its ‘source code’ – is to maximally express and thereby experience Love and Joy, to Joyfully express and experience Love and Lovingly express and experience Joy to the greatest possible degree in every possible way, or something like that." and  "Every soul’s ‘journey’ is unique and ... said evolutionary journey never ends. Infinity extends in every direction. The projection that there is some kind of ‘ultimate’, or ‘greatest’ possible, realization beyond which there is nothing more or different to realize is delusional!"

[Brad Walker]

To be fair, the number of branches isn't the problem. It's the infinitude that breaks probability. A multiverse finite in space and time doesn't suffer from that, unlike the infinite cosmological multiverse. It is aesthetically unsatisfying to think "I" wrote this post at least 10^76 times.