A theory for explaining the consciousness and non-physical phenomena, based on physics and introspection

[olav drageset]

Bernardo Kastrup, you show up an impressive capacity and interest for understanding mind and consciousness in depth. You just are missing a model that can link non-physical phenomena to mainstream physics. String theory seems to be able to offer such a link. You just need to interpret the requirements from the mathematical framework a bit different from what is normal amongst the string scientists. The string theory with extra dimensions, supersymmetry and brane theory make an ideal cocktail to design a cosmic model that includes both physical matter, dark matter, dark energy, mind and consciousness. This cosmic model supports most of your views.

Please have a look at these peer-reviewed articles, published in physics journals

Modeling the dark universes

Negative energy explained by an imaginary speed of light.
  Read a free copy of the article.

You find more articles at  http://amatterofmind.net/Publications.html

Sorry that i refer to my own work. You may moderate it away, but you might want to have a look at the principles first. You can use it as a theoretical basement in your argument with various persons.

[Bernardo]

Olav, yes, I even pointed this out in an entire subsection of Why Materialism Is Baloney. But the best mathematical framework to attempt this, in my view, is M-theory, which is monistic as far as its ontological primitive (the hyper-dimensional brane). Cheers, B.

[olav drageset]

If the proposed articles are to technical, this can be better: Consciousness and Cosmos: Proposal for a New Paradigm based on Physics and Introspection

On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 3:34:39 PM UTC+2, olav drageset wrote:

[Olav Drageset]

I regard M-theory as the last version of string theory, so we agree on that. We seem to have a lot in common. The 11th dimension which is included in M-theory is very important for understanding  perception.

Sorry that I have not read your books, but I have explained how all the extra dimensions should be understood and why consciousness is based on negative energy and why it therefore must be in a separate brane, different from the mind and the physical universe.

I am not sure if I understand exactly what you mean, but I do not see any branes having more that three dimensions. That is in harmony with normal capacity of perception.

One of my points is that you cannot rely on the materialistic interpretation of string theory available from the string scientists, you have to make an adaptation to incorporate the two rooms of the mind revealed by introspection.

Best wishes

Olav

Olav Drageset

ol...@drageset.net
themeditationblog.com

amatterofmind.net
+47 99002690

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[Bruce Snyder]

Interesting stuff!

What I find most interesting is that in a couple of weeks Bernardo will be in a (live, public) discussion with John Hagelin whose cosmic cocktail (theory of everything) is a combination of M-Theory and Unified Field Theory. He says these two are equivalent. I say they are related by the Fourier Transform. 

What's more, I think any models that come out of these theories should have the Fourier Transform as their base, basically the physical world, non-physical world and the relationship between the two.... but then, my degree is in Engineering so this is just a WAGROM (wild-ass-guess/rough order of magnitude).

[Bruce Snyder]

What's more, I think any models that come out of these theories should have the Fourier Transform as their base, basically the physical world, non-physical world and the relationship between the two.... 

             ….which, by the way, would also apply to Rupert Spira. If he had the Fourier Transform in his model, he would see clearly the relationship between Reality and Illusion. Below is a real illusion.

[Olav Drageset]

As far as I know, Hagelin and the TM movement has completely lost contact with the real world and live in a dreamt up reality initiated by the inflated ego of Mahesh Yogi (we have first hand knowledge). This is very regrettable as much as the TM technique is a potential method for relaxation and even deeper structural changes of the mind/personality, - if you just understand it based on psychological premises removed from the eastern philosophy and religion.

I find unified field theories based on materialism, and unable to model gravitaty, non-physical or non-local phenomena. String theory (including M-theory, supersymmetry and brane theory) has gravity built-in from the beginning. If you open -up the extra dimensions and define three 3-dimensional branes adding up to the required 9 spatial dimensions for the strings, then you also incorporate two non-physical branes. The particles in these branes are probably measured as dark matter and dark energy and observed as the psychological inner room and the intuitive inner room. Voila, and adding the 11th dimension as speed of time, you also have the various levels of mind. From particle level to cosmic level. String theory rules for interaction between branes and the difference of dimensions between different branes assures nonlocality and non-physical phenomena as observed from the physical brane. Consciousness have to be another brane  holding negative energy (because of the quadratic energy equation that emerged from quantum mechanics and calculations done by Luigi Fantappiè).

I support the Fourier transformation, - between a quantum wave world in the timeless intuitive brane and the time-dependent physical brane. Some evidence points at this as a probable law of transformation between the two branes. This transformation combined with adaptation of the transformed quantum wave to the existing physical environment can probably explain the particle-wave duality.

My degree is in theoretical electronics and I have been practicing and teaching meditation for more than 40 years. My model is based on direct experience of the inner worlds made by a groupof people, including medical doctors and psychologists, combined with study of the string theory. I have experiential and/or mathematical evidence for all my proposals, - and they are peer-reviewed by physicists.

I wish Bernardo good luck with Hagelin. It would be interesting to see the discussion. I think my model supports much of Bernardo's general views. I have not yet looked into  details.

Olav Drageset

ol...@drageset.net
themeditationblog.com

amatterofmind.net
+47 99002690

--

[Bruce Snyder]

Olav,

Speaking of Hagelin and TM, my personal experience goes back 40 years when I tried the TM technique. From that time on I was outspoken against the TM business model (which is probably related to what you refer to as Mahesh Yogi ego), and I promoted a book, "The Relaxation Response," in place of TM. It was much much later when Hagelin came on the scene, and became head of TM. My understanding is that Hagelin now is separated from the TM organization and is working with a private foundation, long-time supporter of the TM technique, promoting the growth of Meditation in public schools (my vision is to have Meditation available in every school at every grade level). If I was in his shoes, TM would definitely not be my first choice, however, it is had to argue with the success of TM in the US, in spite of their flaws. So at this time, I say to Hagelin, a three time candidate for the office of president of the United States, and a guy who could be doing pretty much anything he desires, "I applaud your choice, and I support you totally."

Thinking about the way Hagelin must spend his time, discussions of scientific theories, and even metaphysical speculations, seem sort of incidental.

Bruce

[Bruce Snyder]

I support the Fourier transformation, - between a quantum wave world in the timeless intuitive brane and the time-dependent physical brane. Some evidence points at this as a probable law of transformation between the two branes. This transformation combined with adaptation of the transformed quantum wave to the existing physical environment can probably explain the particle-wave duality.

Olav,

I say the Fourier Transform is the relationship between the particle and the wave.

Bruce 

[Bruce Snyder]

Olav,

I say the Fourier Transform is the relationship between the particle and the wave.

Bruce 

There are two formulas:

1. From wave to particle, manifestation, Life:  and, 
2. From particle to wave, enlightenment, Death 

I like to call it "Life and Death in a Nutshell." I think I will write an essay about it.

[Olav Drageset]

Bruce

Mahesh Yogi was a working monk and not a spiritual one, He was allowed to go to the West for a couple of years. He took the name Maharishi which means very great holy person. After the success he got the period extended. After that he was called back, but did not go, and was expelled by his elders. Later he built an ashram in Rishikesh. As the tax authorities charged him for fraud, he could not go back to India and his ashram is in scrambles. Some years ago his image was anyway mounted in the ashram of his elders, because they maybe want a bit of his popularity from the westerners. There is a fierce competition among the different ashram leaders. Mahesh Yogi caused severe mental suffering among some of his nearby followers, which others had to remedy. Beatles looked through his facade and got enough, and made a song about the fool on the hill. Mia Farrow was mistreated by the guru. When the guru died there was a long line of very expensive cars in his basement and expensive wasted construction projects around the world.

Yes, the pricing of the courses have been in style with the unrealistic views of the technique. You can just look up the "TM sidhi program & Yogic flying" to see what realism and self image the organization promotes. Their understanding of the technique is based on religious/mythological thinking,  a lot of research that will not stand up to any peer review and probably self-deception. Their way of teaching unrealistic outcome may attract people that need a boost of the self image and expect a lot in return for little effort. Our experience is that unrealistic (emotional, not neutral) view of what the meditation can provide retards or halts the process of maturation and personal growth.

I do not know much about Hagelin other than he has been the front image of TM in their effort to look scientific and promote their plans for world revolution based on meditation, - and even put him up as a presidential candidate. I am surprised that he has gained that much respect outside the TM movement. I would like very much to see for my self how this encounter between Hagelin and Bernardo unfolds. Please inform me if it is uploaded to the net.

"The Relaxation Response" was made by Herbert Benson that was not connected to the TM movement, and he initiated the research on meditation. There is now a growing amount of scientific papers on the subject. I have been teaching meditation for more that 40 years. My version has the same origin as TM, but the teaching and understanding of the active mechanisms is based on psychological understanding of the psyche (acem.com, themeditationblog.com)

Best

Olav Drageset

ol...@drageset.net
themeditationblog.com

amatterofmind.net
+47 99002690

--

[Olav Drageset]

Bruce

Your Fourier Transform ideas seem interesting. Please send me link to your essay when it is finished

Olav Drageset

ol...@drageset.net
themeditationblog.com

amatterofmind.net
+47 99002690

[Bruce Snyder]

Olav,

Very interesting info on TM and its baggage. Thanks.

I imagine Bernardo at some point will have a video of he and Hagelin.

My essay has sort of begun. Check out the thread on this Forum, "Life and Death in a Nutshell: It's all Perspective.

Bruce

[Bruce Snyder]

On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 12:47:35 PM UTC-7, olav drageset wrote:

Bruce

I do not know much about Hagelin other than he has been the front image of TM in their effort to look scientific and promote their plans for world revolution based on meditation, - and even put him up as a presidential candidate. I am surprised that he has gained that much respect outside the TM movement. I would like very much to see for my self how this encounter between Hagelin and Bernardo unfolds. Please inform me if it is uploaded to the net.

Olav,

I thought I would try to answer this question for myself and ran across at this site  :

In recognition of his outstanding achievements, Dr. Hagelin was named winner of the prestigious Kilby Award, which recognizes scientists who have made “major contributions to society through their applied research in the fields of science and technolgy.” The award recognized Dr. Hagelin as “a scientist in the tradition of Einstein, Jeans, Bohr and Eddington.”

Dr. Hagelin is currently Director of the Institute of Science, Technology and Public Policy, a leading science and technology think tank, and International Director of the Global Union of Scientists for Peace, an organization of leading scientists throughout the world dedicated to ending nuclear proliferation and establishing lasting world peace. Dr. Hagelin also serves as President of the United States Peace Government, a knowledge-based, complementary government composed of hundreds of America’s top scientists, which advocates proven, prevention-oriented solutions to critical social problems; and Minister of Science and Technology of the Global Country of World Peace, an international organization dedicated to prevention-oriented government, world peace, and global administration through natural law.

Bruce 

 

[Olav Drageset]

Bruce

The site you mention seems to be a product of the TM organization to market a decent appearance of the grandiose thinking of their organization. I also see a part of the US heritage that also easily go into such a grandiose thinking. This phenomenon can probably live happily for a long time. Another part of the US culture will obviously see a kind of self deception in such behavior, but you cannot do anything  with it. The mental forces in that character trait of the culture seems so strong that it has to find its own path. Meditation can over time loosen up such mental views, but it certainly takes time.

Global Union of Scientists for Peace, the United States Peace Government, Global Country of World Peace are all typical creations of the TM movement, initiated by Hagelin. He seems to have inherited the grandiose thinking from Mahesh Yogi with no second thought.

Olav Drageset

ol...@drageset.net
themeditationblog.com

amatterofmind.net
+47 99002690

--

[Bruce Snyder]

On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 1:25:29 AM UTC-7, olav drageset wrote:

Bruce

The site you mention seems to be a product of the TM organization to market a decent appearance of the grandiose thinking of their organization. I also see a part of the US heritage that also easily go into such a grandiose thinking. This phenomenon can probably live happily for a long time. Another part of the US culture will obviously see a kind of self deception in such behavior, but you cannot do anything  with it. The mental forces in that character trait of the culture seems so strong that it has to find its own path. Meditation can over time loosen up such mental views, but it certainly takes time.

Global Union of Scientists for Peace, the United States Peace Government, Global Country of World Peace are all typical creations of the TM movement, initiated by Hagelin. He seems to have inherited the grandiose thinking from Mahesh Yogi with no second thought.

 Damn!   If you can't trust the Internet, who can you trust? 

[Olav Drageset]

Only you have the responsibility for what you are believing, saying and doing, and only you can get it right.

Ibsen said in Peer Gynt: The devils hook where you don't look.

The world is full of people that want to deceive you or get you into a mental closure. Both within religion, alternative, science and commerce.

A neutral unaffectious attitude to the rest of the world is the best vantage point for evaluations.

Meditation can help you get in contact with your deeper and silent reactions, - and loosen the more superficial strong mental needs you are not even aware of, and open the mental closures. When the meditation teacher supports your grandiose thinking, then he makes it even more difficult to get the real deeper benefits from the method.

Have a good meditation!

Best wishes from Olav

--

[Bruce Snyder]

Olav,

I ran across this and thought it was applicable.
Bruce

 There is no fundamental difference between the preparation for death and the practice of dying, and spiritual practice leading to enlightenment.

Stanislav Grof

[Olav Drageset]

Hi Bruce

Fourier transformation is used for transforming a signal between the frequency space and a time space. The same signal expressed in time or by frequencies. I cannot see how life and death comes into this transformation.

I cannot find any real content or value in the writings of Stanislav Grof. Such phrases are found all over the alternative culture. Many talk about enlightenment and self enhancement seemingly without having an idea of what it means, -- just that it shall make oneself very great and satisfied. I do not find any of the self established well known gurus and teachers very enlightened. I have found great persons within the alternative movement, but much of the training and teaching seems to lead to psychological repression and self-deception.

I may be wrong, but that is at least my impression.

Olav Drageset

ol...@drageset.net
themeditationblog.com

amatterofmind.net
+47 99002690

[Bruce Snyder]

Hi Olav,

To find out how the Fourier Transformation is related to life and death.............Stay tuned.

Regarding Stan Grof, I say, and have said for a long time, "He understands the nature of reality as well as anyone on the planet. Anyone interested in Reality or Enlightenment should read at least one of his books."

My top formula for gaining Enlightenment: Get trained as a psychiatrist. Then every day for the next fifty years, take trips personally, and guide others on trips to the world of Enlightenment. For other methods, stay tuned.

I'm curious about the people you consider "great persons within the alternative movement." Would you care to name names?

I may be wrong, but this is my best wild-ass-guess.

Bruce

[Peter Jones]

Grof is usually good. His statement about preparation for dying is standard stuff.  You'll see the same message all over the literature. Practicing is getting ready for death. After all, there'd hardly be any point in getting ready for anything else.   

"Many talk about enlightenment and self enhancement seemingly without having an idea of what it means, -- just that it shall make oneself very great and satisfied."

Hmm. Do you see that this cuts both ways?

[Olav Drageset]

Peter,

Sorry, my English might not be so experienced. I cannot understand. Neither "cuts" nor "ways" say anything to me.

Olav Drageset

ol...@drageset.net
themeditationblog.com

amatterofmind.net
+47 99002690

--

[Peter Jones]

Pardon me.

I was suggesting you were 'talking about enlightenment seemingly without having an idea of what it means', while complaining about other people who do this.

For instance - "I do not find any of the self established well known gurus and teachers very enlightened."

How do you judge? .

[Bruce Snyder]

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 8:15:39 AM UTC-7, olav drageset wrote:

Hi Bruce

Fourier transformation is used for transforming a signal between the frequency space and a time space. The same signal expressed in time or by frequencies. I cannot see how life and death comes into this transformation.

Olav,

You give a singular rudimentary example of an application of the Fourier Transform and say you can't see how it stretches to death and dying. Let's instead start from this point:

Physicists jump between talking about functions and their Fourier transforms so often that they barely see the difference.  For example, for not-terribly-obvious reasons, in quantum mechanics the Fourier transform of the position a particle (or anything really) is the momentum of that particle.  Literally, when something has a lot of momentum and energy its wave has a high frequency, and waves back and forth a lot.  Applying Fourier stuff to quantum mechanics is one of the most direct ways to derive the infamous Heisenberg Uncertainty principle!  FT’s even show up in quantum computers, as described in this shoddily written article.

Bruce

[Olav Drageset]

Wherever you have a time limited signal or function as you call it, it can be converted to a frequency spectrum. That is the essence of the Fourier transform. I would not call it rudimentary. In your example there is a time-limited singnal/function that is endlessly repeated. That is specially easy to transform into the frequency plane. I have still no idea of how this can be connected to death and life.

Olav Drageset

ol...@drageset.net
themeditationblog.com

amatterofmind.net
+47 99002690

--

[tjssailor]

OK so what do you think you will experience when you die...

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[Bruce Snyder]

On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 9:17:04 AM UTC-7, tjssailor wrote:

OK so what do you think you will experience when you die...

tjs,

 That discussion is underway on the thread, "Life and Death in a Nutshell:..." on this Forum.

Bruce 

[Olav Drageset]

Personal beliefs are very little interesting in a scientific environment.

More interesting are the widespread beliefs among scientists that are treated as a scientifically established reality.

Olav Drageset

ol...@drageset.net
themeditationblog.com

amatterofmind.net
+47 99002690

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[Bruce Snyder]

On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 11:58:06 AM UTC-7, olav drageset wrote:

Personal beliefs are very little interesting in a scientific environment.

I can't argue there. 

More interesting are the widespread beliefs among scientists that are treated as a scientifically established reality.

This subject is one of the favorites discussed on this Forum. It comes under the label, "Materialism"
 

Olav Drageset

[Peter Jones]

On Monday, 19 October 2015 19:58:06 UTC+1, olav drageset wrote:

"Personal beliefs are very little interesting in a scientific environment."

AQll scientists have to work with is their personal beliefs. There isn't anything else. A 'inter-subjective' view is just a lot of personal beliefs,    

"More interesting are the widespread beliefs among scientists that are treated as a scientifically established reality.

Science cannot ever deal directly with reality. Scientists themselves are clear about this. For this one has to do metaphysics or explore experience.