What Causes The Disassociation Of Alters within MAL?

[Lex Benjamin]

I can accept that all reality is within mind and that our conscious experiences are disassociated identities of that mind. 

1. What causes the disassociation? How and why does this happen? (I'm Looking for insight into Bernardo's take on this). 

2. Do we have physical or conscious access to MAL? 

3. Would it be possible to reverse the disassociation? 

[Mark Tetzner]

I only have an answer to 3. which is to die.

[Dana Lomas]

Lex ... Bernardo basically answers question #1 in this brief thread ... well, sort of

[Dana Lomas]

It is an intriguing conundrum of a question though. Starting with the premise that all experience is first and foremost what could be called Divine ideation, then that would have to include the idea of the Divine in alter-mode. So really the question should be how and why does that Divine idea arise. And what would constitute that idea in words? I'm not sure that these questions can even be answered from the perspective of alter-mode, because such Divine ideation, in and of itself, is entirely noumenal. Being in alter-mode, one is limited to forms and qualia, which includes language, as phenomenal representations of that Divine ideation. We can merely re-imagine it and attempt to put it into words, in which case such an idea might be, 'Let there be light' ... And implied in that is the idea of a point of view from which to perceive the light. Et voilà, a light perceiving alter is conceived! However, I'd caution against taking any of this literally. Nonetheless, such 'altered' imaginings may well be the best we can hope for. :)  

[Mark Tetzner]

Dana, you use the word noumena so much, its something by Kant?

I belive we do not have any access to MAL btw (question 2), as MAL is the entire cosmos.

[Dana Lomas]

I'm not quite sure, but as far as I know Kant coined the word noumenon, to refer to the essence of what he called the 'thing in and of itself' (though the word 'thing' can be problematic), or what could be called Divine Ideation, not to be confused with our limited categories of thought -- as opposed to its phenomenal aspect as it appears as forms and qualia, via some sort of perception and apperception --- aka alter-mode, as BK posits it. However, the equivalent of 'noumenon' has been expressed in other metaphysical traditions and ontologies -- e.g. Plato's theory of Forms and Ideas, and in Taoism as 'the eternal Tao', as opposed to the tao that can be told ... no doubt there are other tantamount expressions.

[Mark Tetzner]

Yeah...."das wort ist nicht das ding an sich" (the word is not the thing itself) I remember that now from school!
It seems to mean "that which is thought" as compared that which his perceived by the senses.
Thanks...

[Lex Benjamin]

Yeah. That one makes sense. 

[Lex Benjamin]

That's pretty much what I thought too Dana. We may lack the ability to understand the totality of this existence. Well, at least exactly anyway. Words will probably always be a poor approximation. 

[Lex Benjamin]

I don't think we do either Mark. I think that in order to, we'd need to step outside of MAL or possess perception from the perspective of MAL. 

[Peter Jones]

On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 13:17:05 UTC+1, Mark Tetzner wrote:

Dana, you use the word noumena so much, its something by Kant?

I belive we do not have any access to MAL btw (question 2), as MAL is the entire cosmos.

The Buddha's enlightenment, being complete, is considered a cosmic event, which may be a clue to what it means. . 

The 'noumenon' is an idea that predates Kant. It has always been necessary for a fundamental theory.  In physics they like to substitute it with the 'Void' or 'Nothing', but these ideas don't work.