Re: [PCI-C] ​Join Us for Meta-Layer Working Sessions – Let’s Shape the Future of the Web Together.

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Daveed

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Oct 19, 2024, 10:58:22 AM10/19/24
to Paul Werbos, meta-layer, PCI-Community-Calls

Note to Meeting Attendees: I’ve BCC’d you on this final update, and going forward, I will not be directly forwarding further communications. If you’d like to stay connected, receive updates, or get involved, please join the Meta-Layer Google Group, and/or our Telegram group. We’d love to hear from you! 

Hi Paul,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful contribution! Your input has been added to CyberSavant, our freely accessible GPT, which is assisting with the synthesis of the desirable properties feedback. In addition, your input will be embedded as a digital artifact on the Bitcoin blockchain—immortalized as a permanent contribution to the next level of the Internet. Would you like me to put this onchain in your name or anonymously?

That said, your input adds an incredible new dimension to the project—it's as though we’ve gained two more years of development, but in the best possible way. (Joking, sort of.) You've pushed us to think deeply about how RLADP principles, COI mitigation, and long-term decision intelligence could shape a robust and future-proof application substrate. 

Your insights bring a focus on adaptive, intelligent systems, foresight governance, and privacy-conscious frameworks to the Meta-Layer’s design. The emphasis on RLADP principles, COI mitigation, and quantum-readiness ensures the Meta-Layer is not only future-proof but also resilient to conflicts that could destabilize it. These properties position the Meta-Layer as a revolutionary architecture for decentralized governance, AI containment, and cross-domain collaboration, ensuring trust, transparency, and agency for all participants.

This complexity makes it even clearer that we need to be intentional with the rollout of functionality—perhaps focusing on a phased approach that prioritizes adaptability, security, and simplicity from the outset. The complexity you're helping us navigate aligns perfectly with our vision of decentralized governance, privacy, and AI containment.

Looking forward to exploring how we can integrate these insights into the Meta-Layer so the substrate is not only innovative but also a sustainable framework for the future.

Gratefully,
Daveed


Daveed Benjamin
Founder

The Metaweb - The Next Level of the Internet was published by Taylor & Francis in late November, 2023. 




---- On Fri, 18 Oct 2024 07:26:38 -0700 Paul Werbos <pwe...@gmail.com> wrote ---

Thank you very much, Daveed!

A few years ago, I would have been ecstatic to see your important focused efforts absolutely central to the first existential threat to humanity on my list attached, which I promise never to forget.

I still hope for the best, and will try to help.

But to live up to this challenge and survive, PART of the challenge is to keep updating our cognitive maps of where we are and what threads are available in the future. This really is a "minefield" decision challenge.

As intelligent systems of all kinds proliferate, from AI to AGI, we cannot expect a metaframework to work unless it too possesses the AGI level of intelligence (which simply means a general ability to learn hope its environment works and 
how to learn a strategy to advance SOME purpose or values, which ultimately need to map into cardinal utility function U as Von Neumann and his followers have explained in depth). 
"MINEFIELD" type decision problems are part of the mathematical specification of what such intelligent systems are asked to address; only with the material in my new patent, approved and published three days ago
(https://patents.justia.com/inventor/paul-j-werbos), can we build AGI which directly address how difficult such problems are.. In truth, even human brains are evolved to handle a level of intelligence held together by classical physics, which is inherently limited in how far it can go in surviving millions of pitfalls ahead of us. 

More seriously, and more immediately, networks of HUMANS trying to manage the new minefield of new technologies (AGI and finance and weapons and communications and observation) now open to us are displaying their limitations every day now, as possibilities for new global wars (led in great part by human leaders deluded enough to imagine they know the way forward enough to allow humans to survive) grow very quickly.  EVEN THE CLASSICAL FORMS OF AGI (as in my earlier patents,
listed in the Justia file) were based on years of mathematical work learning how to prevent general conflict of interest (COI) effects from leading to gross instabilities. In global financial systems, for example, new gross instabilities dur to COI could already cause  stunning bankruptcy problems ... like the breakup of GE, the current tremens of Boeing, and visible decays of Google and Meta and other major IT company leaderships, which are making changges in internet plans NOW whihc seriously threaten human life.  (For example, the growing overreliance on nuclear fission to power server farms is NOT the most economic way technically, and far more dangerous to global security, as I learned through
https://new.nsf.gov/funding/opportunities/ari-joint-domestic-nuclear-detection-office-national-science/503223/nsf13-554) . Human networks of COI are the main explanation behind this very urgent and huge decision error.)

Even in CLASSICAL RLADP decision designs, we know how to totally eliminate that kind of COI, as my earlier patents reflected. (The best "Iron Dome" missile interception tools in use today are based on that kind of RLADP,
implemented by Balakrishnan whom I funded to use that math in that application, but COI led Lockheed et al to NOT use the next generation, which would have saved hundreds or thousands of lives already in the Middle east.) 
AND SO...

The "privacy and security" provisions in a new metaframework or Sustainable Intelligent Internet organizing platform  should account for the kinds of information flow restrictions which follow from using RLADP intelligence as the central organizing principle, limiting BOTH apps AND humans. This does not have to wait for quantum AGI (QAGI), but QAGI can take this further, especially by allowing cybersecurity capabilities which are essential to this and to many sensitive applications
(again like electric power, financial and contract networks, and military kinds of things).

========

I am amazed that  adult human brains are so untrained that they are not immediately horrified by two working examples of what EXISTING AGI systems are already doing to human personal life and security.

The most astounding examples are the recent assassinations by Israel and, even more, the more powerful systems disempowering most humans in China today (perhaps even including Xi himself, who is not so all-powerful as Westerners often imagine).

Why are people not asking themselves: if this is UNIVERSAL AGI technology, available all over the world, some of it much more powerful than what Israel knows about, who on the earth is safe, or empowered , or free even to think for themselves,
or, yes, to exercise freedom of spiritual growth, which itself can be perverted to serve deluded and narcissistic would-be tyrants? (There is a physicians' desk reference on human neuroses which is VERY relevant to the dynamics of human networks, like the delusions which cause tyranny.) This technology is HERE NOW!!!

I will probably fail to cc Karl Schroeder, who once ran the Canada node of the Millennium Project,  who SHOULD be part of this effort, who has a great novel Stealing Worlds which can help us humans overcome our mental blocks and envision better what this kind of capability really means -- AND ALSO why conventional legal and regulatory networks MAKE THINGS WORSE if not properly subordinated.. 

For example, if Musk agrees to "solve" COI problems in human networks by inserting government regulators into filtering human speech... as Trump tried to enforce late in his Presidency when the "section 450" issue came up...
that exactly AMPLIFIES the growing life-threatening instabilities I hinted at above. COI and AGI-based networks for information and foresight are essential foundations.

It gets even scarier. I have read stories about financial companies organizing elite groups to fire 90% of their employees, made unnecessary as AGI take over the valuation job (assessing U and 
variables which RLADP uses based on U, such as "shadow prices" and assessed market values)... only to learn in the end that THEIR jobs will be removed, and only owners still there.
MORE EFFICIENT SII systems and apps would at least INCLUDE humans, but today's pressures to MOVE FAST prevent such developments. Human empowerment is suffering badly already, due to the ways in which development is now proceeding.
It is what we call a "Nash equilibrium.' We need platforms which can either enforce Pareto optimality, OR at least move us to market designs which make the Nassdh equilibria more sustainable for humans.   

... But at this time, I myself have a fast growing problem of trust... limiting what I can say. Especially about things like physics or global conflicts. 

Best of luck... 

On Fri, Oct 18, 2024 at 12:25 AM Daveed <dav...@bridgit.io> wrote:


Greetings

I am excited to invite you to join a series of Meta-Layer working meetings where we’ll come together to collaboratively review, refine, and explore the list of desirable properties for a Meta-Layer—a foundational step toward building the next level of the internet.

We have multiple meeting options across different platforms to ensure everyone has a chance to contribute:

  • ZOOM: Tue, Oct 22, 2024, 9-11a (PDT)
  • X Space (formerly Twitter Space): Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 12-1p (PDT)
  • ZOOM: Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 4-6p (PDT)

Feel free to join any session that works best for your schedule—or join multiple sessions for deeper engagement! 

What Are We Building?

The Meta-Layer is an application substrate for a new meta-environment, a layer of collaboration, transparency, and interaction that sits above today’s web. This project aims to enable:

  • Overlay Applications that empower participants with new tools and functionalities across all web content.
  • Smart Tags that provide contextual, interactive annotations, enriching the web with meaningful insights.
  • Meta-Communities that bring people together across platforms, fostering collaboration beyond traditional silos.

This is more than just a technical infrastructure—it’s a bold vision to create a safer, more collaborative, and user-empowered web where privacy, data sovereignty, and agency are prioritized.

Why Your Input Matters

The list of desirable properties serves as a guiding framework for building this transformative infrastructure. It will help define key elements such as:

  • Decentralized Authentication & Identity
  • Community-Centered Collaboration
  • AI Governance and Containment
  • Data Sovereignty and Privacy

With input from thought leaders, developers, organizers, and changemakers like you, this collaborative process ensures that the Meta-Layer meets the needs of diverse communities and serves as a platform for innovation and connection.

How You Can Participate

This is a working session where we will review the current list, discuss potential additions or refinements, and explore how these properties align with real-world use cases. Your ideas, feedback, and insights are invaluable.

By contributing, you’ll not only help shape the Meta-Layer but also be eligible to receive one of the first Overweb digital badges, a unique identifier that marks your early involvement in this transformative project.

Join Us

You can join any of the meetings directly via the links below:


How to stay in touch

Join our Telegram group: https://t.me/+Np9h_IYgrD8wODhh
Follow Meta-Layer initiative X: https://x.com/themetalayer  

We look forward to your participation and collaboration as we build the future of the web, together.

Warmly,
Daveed
Meta-Layer Initiative


P.S. If you have any questions or ideas ahead of the meetings, feel free to reply to this email—we’d love to hear from you!







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Daveed

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Oct 27, 2024, 4:25:01 PM10/27/24
to cmason, meta-layer, PCI-Community-Calls

Hi Cindy,

Thank you for your insightful email and for sharing an excerpt from your upcoming book. Your points about the disconnect between how terms like "human-centered" and "human-machine collaboration" are used in AI/ML versus public understanding are invaluable. I agree that it’s crucial to clarify these nuances as the group shapes its discussions and terms.

Your reminder to critically assess the intent behind data use and terminology will be essential for our work moving forward. I appreciate your openness to future discussions, and I’ll be sure to keep you updated as things develop.

Best of luck with your report, and thank you again for your thoughtful input!

Best,
Daveed

PS, I assume that you would like your comments to be put on the Bitcoin blockchain in your name as opposed to anonymously.


Daveed Benjamin
Founder

The Metaweb - The Next Level of the Internet was published by Taylor & Francis in late November, 2023. 



Subject: Re: Google Group & Important Clarifications

Hi Cindy,

Thank you for your insightful email and for sharing an excerpt from your upcoming book. Your points about the disconnect between how terms like "human-centered" and "human-machine collaboration" are used in AI/ML versus public understanding are invaluable. I agree that it’s crucial to clarify these nuances as the group shapes its discussions and terms.

Your reminder to critically assess the intent behind data use and terminology will be essential for our work moving forward. I appreciate your openness to future discussions, and I’ll be sure to keep you updated as things develop.

Best of luck with your report, and thank you again for your thoughtful input!

Best,
Daveed

---- On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:08:36 -0700 Cindy Mason <cma...@cmason.us> wrote ---

hi Daveed,

I will repost this to the google group, assuming joining goes smoothly.

I imagine the group will be sorting out terms and conditions. As
someone
who has been in both AI/ML and mixed disciplinary worlds, I see words
and
phrases bandied about outside of AI/ML, but they have a VERY different
meaning.

One phrase in particular makes me cringe when I hear it outside of ML
circles:
human-centered or people-centered.

Here is a section from my upcoming book, where I write about the way ML
experts
view this term. The short version is: do not assume this means caring
about you
or your data.

From Chapter 5, Designing Artificial Compassion Technology, ISBN:
9798882594984, Forthcoming

Human Centered AI - What does it really mean? It literally means
nothing, unless you understand something about who is saying it and what
they are doing with your data. To machine learning researchers and
marketing experts “human centered” or “people centered” means something
completely different than it does to the average person. For a machine
learning expert, human centered does not imply caring. It is wrong to
assume this. And it is an extremely important point. Outside of
machine learning and advanced marketing, the phrase “human centered” AI
or “people centered” AI is a term used in the same way as the
advertising phrase “natural ingredients.”
    Data about people’s movements, feelings, and shopping habits can be
called human centered. Over the past decade or so, a great deal of data
has been (and continues to be) quietly gathered on people without their
knowledge. It has created what is called the data economy and it is
worth more than gold or oil. This data is often integrated with more
“human centered” data and can be processed by AI systems for many
reasons.
    For example, it can be used for marketing targeted ads to individuals
or it can be sold to third parties. As we saw in the last chapter, large
corporations have gone to incredible lengths to build data archives,
machines and algorithms. We would like to imagine that their use of the
phrase “human centered” or “people centered” means caring for you, but
it literally only means that the data is about people and how they can
use it for profit. For ACT systems, caring and protecting people
includes caring and protecting their data, too. Later in the book, we
will learn about Algorithmic and Data Duty of Care.
    Remember that when you hear the phrase, “human centered” to look
closely at what and who is using this data. In some regions of the
world, people now live in total surveillance and are powerless on how
that data is used by governments, institutions or corporations. Chapter
15 contains a number of ways to investigate and protect your privacy.

Another phrase worth noting:

From Chapter 5, Designing Artificial Compassion Technology, ISBN:
9798882594984, Forthcoming

Human Machine Collaboration - For many ML Programmers and data
scientists, human machine collaboration refers to the use of people
generated documents, images, sounds or webpages for algorithms and
models. This perspective on "collaboration" is held only within the
Machine Learning community. Outside of the Machine Learning community,
this is called stealing or copyright violation. There is an unwritten
assumption within Machine Learning culture that everyone who puts data
online is offering it up to a Machine Learning algorithm. This has
quickly caused serious social issues to arise. For example, when taking
samples of people’s voices that are then used to make deep fakes (e.g.
Scarlett Johansson). This blindspot or mismatch is being brought to
court under a developing new section of legal cases entitled Generative
AI Litigation (Valente et al. 2023; Walsh 2023; Vondle and Lee 2023).


Best wishes,
Cindy
ps. I think what you're doing is very important. I owe a big report to
someone by year's end,
so I should avoid distracting myself... its very tempting. I hope this
is helpful..
discussions welcome, as always!



On 2024-10-19 07:56, Daveed wrote:
> Note to Meeting Attendees: I’ve BCC’d you on this final update,
> and going forward, I will not be directly forwarding further
> communications. If you’d like to stay connected, receive updates, or
> get involved, please join the Meta-Layer Google Group [3], and/or our
> Telegram group [4]. We’d love to hear from you!
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Thank you so much for your thoughtful contribution! Your input has
> been added to CyberSavant [5], our freely accessible GPT, which is
> assisting with the synthesis of the desirable properties feedback. In
> addition, your input will be embedded as a digital artifact on the
> Bitcoin blockchain—immortalized as a permanent contribution to the
> next level of the Internet. _Would you like me to put this onchain in
> your name or anonymously?_
> Bridgit.io [6]
>
> dav...@bridgit.io [7]
>
> dav...@nos.social [7]
>
> +1 (510) 326-2803 (Whatsapp)
>
> +1 (510) 373-3244 (Voicemail)
>
> Book meeting [8]
>
> _The Metaweb - The Next Level of the Internet [9]_ was published by
> Taylor & Francis in late November, 2023.
>
> ---- On Fri, 18 Oct 2024 07:26:38 -0700 PAUL WERBOS
> <PWE...@GMAIL.COM> wrote ---
>> Sustainable Intelligent Internet organizing platform [2] should
>>> I am excited to invite you to join a series of _Meta-Layer working
>>> meetings_ where we’ll come together to collaboratively review,
>>> refine, and explore the _list of desirable properties for a
>>> Meta-Layer_—a foundational step toward building the next level
>>> of the internet.
>>>
>>> We have multiple meeting options across different platforms to
>>> ensure everyone has a chance to contribute:
>>>
>>> * ZOOM: Tue, Oct 22, 2024, 9-11a (PDT)
>>>
>>> * X SPACE (FORMERLY TWITTER SPACE): Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 12-1p
>>> (PDT)
>>>
>>> * ZOOM: Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 4-6p (PDT)
>>>
>>> Feel free to join any session that works best for your
>>> schedule—or join multiple sessions for deeper engagement!
>>>
>>> WHAT ARE WE BUILDING?
>>>
>>> The _Meta-Layer_ is an application substrate for a new
>>> meta-environment, a layer of collaboration, transparency, and
>>> interaction that sits _above today’s web_. This project aims to
>>> enable:
>>>
>>> * OVERLAY APPLICATIONS that empower participants with new tools
>>> and functionalities across all web content.
>>>
>>> * SMART TAGS that provide contextual, interactive annotations,
>>> enriching the web with meaningful insights.
>>>
>>> * META-COMMUNITIES that bring people together across platforms,
>>> fostering collaboration beyond traditional silos.
>>>
>>> This is more than just a technical infrastructure—it’s a bold
>>> vision to _create a safer, more collaborative, and user-empowered
>>> web_ where privacy, data sovereignty, and agency are prioritized.
>>>
>>> WHY YOUR INPUT MATTERS
>>>
>>> The _list of desirable properties_ serves as a guiding framework
>>> for building this transformative infrastructure. It will help
>>> define key elements such as:
>>>
>>> * Decentralized Authentication & Identity
>>>
>>> * Community-Centered Collaboration
>>>
>>> * AI Governance and Containment
>>>
>>> * Data Sovereignty and Privacy
>>>
>>> With input from thought leaders, developers, organizers, and
>>> changemakers like you, this collaborative process ensures that the
>>> Meta-Layer meets the needs of diverse communities and serves as a
>>> _platform for innovation and connection_.
>>>
>>> HOW YOU CAN PARTICIPATE
>>>
>>> This is a _working session_ where we will review the current list,
>>> discuss potential additions or refinements, and explore how these
>>> properties align with real-world use cases. _Your ideas, feedback,
>>> and insights are invaluable._
>>>
>>> By contributing, you’ll not only help shape the Meta-Layer but
>>> also be eligible to receive one of the _first Overweb digital
>>> badges_, a unique identifier that marks your early involvement in
>>> this transformative project.
>>> JOIN US
>>>
>>> You can join any of the meetings directly via the links below:
>>>
>>> * ZOOM (10/22/24, 9-11A PDT): JOIN HERE
>>>
>>
> HTTPS://TCSEDSYSTEM.ZOOM.US/J/94029450721?PWD=QCZPBJSWSYBKQPPCBOJYY3AEUKATZ9.1
>>>
>>> * X SPACE (10/23/24, 12-1P PDT): SET REMINDER
>>> https://x.com/shiftshapr/status/1847128526899892387
>>>
>>> * ZOOM (10/24/24, 4-6P PDT): RSVP
>>> send an email to pci-community-cal...@googlegroups.com.
>>> [1].
>
> --
> You are receiving this email because you signed up to be a member of
> the People-Centered Internet Community. Activity on the list should be
> treated as an "off the record" interaction unless otherwise noted. If
> you would like to share or quote list activity, please request
> permission from relevant participants first.
>
> If you would like to suggest someone for addition to the list, please
> share this "request invitation" form:
> https://forms.gle/q9fpXG1wWokyUo1u9
>
> The PCI Community holds regular calls to share information and
> projects. To suggest a speaker or project for an upcoming call, please
> submit through this form: https://forms.gle/p1bCAzB3e7syf1vx8
> ---
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pci-community-calls/192a54763b7.c5d034c32279468.1191729832722293262%40bridgit.io
> [10].
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pci-community-calls/1929ddf2ce9.114c27ec91868534.1273627999949046543%40bridgit.io?utm_medium=email&amp;utm_source=footer
> [2]
> https://www.werbos.com/How_to%20Build_Past_Emerging_Internet_Chaos.htm
> [3] https://groups.google.com/g/meta-layer
> [4] https://t.me/+Np9h_IYgrD8wODhh
> [5] https://chatgpt.com/g/g-P9tWs1gzS-cybersavant
> [6] http://bridgit.io/
> [7] http://webmail.webhero.com/null
> [8] https://daveed-bridgit.zohobookings.com/#/customer/shiftshapr
> [9] https://bridgit.io/metaweb-book
> [10]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pci-community-calls/192a54763b7.c5d034c32279468.1191729832722293262%40bridgit.io?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

--
Author, Artificial Intelligence and the Environment 2019
E-ISBN 978-1-7335248-1-0 (sold in 31 countries)
AAAI Award for Outstanding Contribution 2022
IUI 2022 Program Committee
IEEE WG 7004
AAAI 2022 Workshop Chair, Diversity and Inclusion Tract
U.C. Berkeley EECS Dept (96-01;13-21)
Stanford CS Dept (95; 01-12)
Stanford Medical Alum '95

--
Author, Artificial Intelligence and the Environment 2019
E-ISBN 978-1-7335248-1-0 (sold in 31 countries)
AAAI Award for Outstanding Contribution 2022
IUI 2022 Program Committee
IEEE WG 7004
AAAI 2022 Workshop Chair, Diversity and Inclusion Tract
U.C. Berkeley EECS Dept (96-01;13-21)
Stanford CS Dept (95; 01-12)
Stanford Medical Alum '95

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