Here's the link
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This week's been really busy; time to rest a bit!
Good work!Here's the link
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Open movie with a closed story board? Come on man. That is the not the way to do it. Sharing mentality is the base for FOSS. Work accordingly.
This week's been really busy; time to rest a bit!
Let the discussion be open. Before finalising anything convey it to the list.
I think we must move the discussion to a more public list since more people will be interested.
Mentor: Please subscribe mes-fsug and ssug-malappuram to each other.
I would also like to see more faces in the discussion.Happy weekend!
Whoa, I didnt think of it that way at all; I thought that people
> Open movie with a closed story board? Come on man. That is the not the way
> to do it. Sharing mentality is the base for FOSS. Work accordingly.
should take SOME effort to view these files. I've opened it to the
public though, no need to sign in anymore.
Exactly the point that I'd like to reinforce. I'm not sure how many
>>I was under the impression that, since most of these people meet in
the college and hostel, there was not much need for a discussion in
thread, other than updates or for people like us to criticize them :)
people will or maybe CAN actually contribute something useful for this
project by just participating online in this list... Anything would be
really welcome though.
Interesting idea; how do you go about it? I was for the idea that the
>>I will suggest something like an svn to keep these, which initially
accessible only to members and then will be opened to all, when the
team is confident.
story elements be released only to be viewed by the movie volunteers,
but Sajjad wanted it to be public, so I did it. :)
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the tips zadeek; and yes, im aware of the fact that it
> takes a lot of time to render (even without using third party
> renderers) especially if you have stuff like ambient occlusion on.
> I've a lot of experience using yafaray and luxrender but that simply
> cannot be used for this movie.
> The storyboarding is over, im working on the sets now, shall post
> screenshots soon..
I have some doubts actually. From what i understand, making a movie is
a collaborative effort. The areas where a lot of people with less
tech. know how of rendering can contribute on the parts like story
boarding, getting the script up etc.
I just want to know who all contributed or at least give a suggestion
or two before the story board is finalized(i have no problem even if
none commented, it just means none is interested in these things). I
don't like to raise any suggestions because, i am miles away from you
people and i am of the impression that you are better people than me
when it comes to visualizing all these things.
Why am asking this is, usually everyone will ask their students who
wants to do something with a movie as their career to watch at least
100 classic movies and understand the movie(not the story but the
technique of making it and visualizing it). Like where is the camera,
the way people move the way camera move, the way scenes are changed
and etc. etc. It all involves a lot of effort because, if you dont do
it right, movie will end up as just a set of scenes with no
connections with each other.
I am pretty sure that milad knows most of these things. What i want to
know is, how much discussion you had among others about these.
Because, in a collaborative environment, you more than doing your
work, usually passes some knowledge to others too. Other wise, in a
true sense, i don't think this will become a collaborative effort. It
will just become a movie by Milad and crew(Yes there is a difference
> I have some doubts actually. From what i understand, making a movie isIt sure is; you see, i didnt come up with the actual story; other guys
> a collaborative effort. The areas where a lot of people with less
> tech. know how of rendering can contribute on the parts like story
> boarding, getting the script up etc.
(nitin and siraj) did, and a few others came over and developed it. I
put in a few ideas of my own too; but you see, im not doing all the
entire work; the major animating and 3d work; i wont be editing, i
wont have a hand in the sound dept; and other promo work. I think this
is, although vaguely, a collaborative work.
> I just want to know who all contributed or at least give a suggestion
> or two before the story board is finalized(i have no problem even if
> none commented, it just means none is interested in these things). I
> don't like to raise any suggestions because, i am miles away from you
> people and i am of the impression that you are better people than me
> when it comes to visualizing all these things.
Lot of people have the enthusiasm with the pure idea of the movie, i'm
sure whoever participated is not NOT interested. :)
I spent quite a while analyzing the storyline and characters, which
> Why am asking this is, usually everyone will ask their students who
> wants to do something with a movie as their career to watch at least
> 100 classic movies and understand the movie(not the story but the
> technique of making it and visualizing it). Like where is the camera,
> the way people move the way camera move, the way scenes are changed
> and etc. etc. It all involves a lot of effort because, if you dont do
> it right, movie will end up as just a set of scenes with no
> connections with each other.
camera would best suite this scene and so on; i hope there is no lack
Truth be said; i could've really used the help of another animator,
> I am pretty sure that milad knows most of these things. What i want to
> know is, how much discussion you had among others about these.
> Because, in a collaborative environment, you more than doing your
> work, usually passes some knowledge to others too. Other wise, in a
> true sense, i don't think this will become a collaborative effort. It
> will just become a movie by Milad and crew(Yes there is a difference
> in both).
but i've yet to see a person with at least half the talent to do it;
worse, even the patience to stand for it consistently. Animation is a
unique form of art that can severely test your patience, and you'd
even go crazy if you dont have half the interest to do it.. its all
if there was someone who knew the principles and concepts or REAL
character animation (not just simply animating with blender, flash or
maya, like moving stuff around) like someone, who has the basic idea
of giving the performance, involving the audience with the acting, or
timing, i could've spent more time improving the keyframes, cleaning
out the animation and passed on the in-betweens to my fellow worker;
but alas, like i said, there's no one i know of, nor is there the time
to find someone who can. A lot of people have interest in animation,
but when they see the actual work that is required to see the stuff in
motion, they back off.
Legendary animators like Frank Thomas, Ollie Johnston and Tex Avery,
did most of their (handdrawn) animation on their own, when they
couldn't get assistants to fill in for them; its one of the greatest
example of how much interest and love you should have for animation to
do something with it.
I guess i'm too bloated with it, sorry guys, just got carried away...
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I do understand this. The thing is, understanding of the political
>> importance of an open movie project is one thing. The understanding of
>> technological advantages of it is another and the understanding of
>> concept of collaboration is altogether different matter. Nobody have
>> to understand all these things to conceptualize and implement an open
>> movie project. It is something which happens on the go.
> the whole concept of collaboration would've worked, wonderfully, given
> we had the time...
I just have actually one thing to add, dont think you have to keep the
MESTECH in perspective. I am quite sure nothing new will happen in two
or three weeks. What i would say is, make maximum use of opportunity.
There are ways how you can use MESTECH. Like, more than the movie
itself, you can put the whole experience of making an animation movie
into a 1 hr presentation and tell it to every one. Pointing on how
things could have improved, if there was more communication, more
involvement, more time.
>> I am no expert in the field to say whether it is right or wrong and
>> ultimately, there is no wrong in a creative venture. I am quite sure
>> you have a level of understanding of the problem and solutions. I just
>> wish you can help others too to pick up their vision on how to think
>> inside a movie.
> You see, I'm no Blender Guru either; it just so happens that I happen
> to know more about Blender that people here do; I'm self taught at it,
> and had juiced out the online community for all kinds of help. People
> said fsf and open source were utter piece of crap, but I tried out
> Blender, and witnessed the magic it withheld, beneath all those
> lucrative learning curves. I probably cant convince people to use it
> completely, since in the end, its all about preference.
I am quite out of the field of animation and have no idea how good or
bad blender or in that case any tool related to this is. The way to
convince someone to use it is, showing them what you can do with it.
Thats exactly what you are doing now. So, there is nothing to think or
worry about. I would say, the question of FOSS adaption is a different
one from question of making a movie. FOSS adaption is usually of many
different reasons, back here, FOSS is kind of default because its
something which has less restrictions.
It might not be the case with everyone. For e.g. i have seen prof.s
back in kerala telling students to use only visual studio and .NET to
finish their project. Programming Language is just a tool to finish a
project to visualize the concepts he develop through the other steps
in developing the whole system. The student should be able to
distinguish and select the system and language he is comfortable with
and required for him. There is a difference between, all projects you
do should be a FOSS project and all projects you do should be with
JAVA/.NET. For an easy adaptation of FOSS, people should realize this
difference. Also they should understand there are multitude of
solutions for the problems they face.
If am correct, currently, autodesk has a kind of monopoly over the
applications related to design and modeling. They are default industry
standard. But, its not the most cost effective solution to go forward
and definitely not one a student can pursue for his academic purposes.
we may have to teach and preach a lot of people to make them
understand this. Everybody likes things as it is, it is difficult for
someone to digest the need for something which has a message of
freedom along with par or superior performance(its not the case
So, not having people familiar with the systems we plan to use is a
primary problem and we can list it as one, and can think about what
can be done to solve it. People not having an understanding of FOSS
concepts is another and it should be addressed at different level.
Lastly, why a true collaborative efforts are not possible even in
closely knit community of students, who stay together in hostels is
another(it is a kind of social problem :)). Now its not time for us to
solve the problems, we are thinking about identifying them. When i was
there in MES, there were people who used to work in blender and GIMP.
But none used them for any work he done for college or for that matter
for others. Because, blender just came out then and GIMP was not
stable and very unreliable. Surely things are improving now. So, don't
worry about nothing is happening, be happy that you at least found
some interesting minds who can help you a little in working a movie
>> This is what i wanted to know. There will always be problems and the
>> interesting fact is, animators wont come up in a day. I took up my
>> line of work because of the passion i have towards it, the case is
>> same for sajjad/manu. So it might take time for some one to show up
>> the surface and say i have interest in this. He might be thinking its
>> not something i can't pursue for my life. The real achievement we can
>> get out of this venture is not having a 5 min animation movie(if you
>> think about it in a larger sense, there is nothing great in that). It
>> is the identification and building of a group of talents with same
> I've been learning animation for years, both digital and manually; and
> yes, I still think and know that this isnt the end of it; there's a
> hell lot more to learn about it; an entire generation of
> possibilities... Video game character designing, pixel based character
> animation, high quality-poly friendly for the masses to see, believe
> me, I've tried my hand in most of it... And like you, I honestly think
> this isnt a big deal at all, but rather a venture to find out more
> liek minded people, but its hasnt been successful so far. If only this
> initiative was taken a few months back...
So what you say is, you got a bunch of people who can make movies, and
may help out in any pre/post production activities but none who can
really do or have interest in the part "animation" of the movie? That
it self is a good thing. Now, we can look out side the campus in that
case :) to get more people when we think of more learning.
>> You should point these things out. Again, this what many want to hear
>> from you people, how did you do your work, what problems did you face.
>> Most of them will be classic cases, but again you should go through
>> them to get things right. See this 5 min small movie as a small step
>> towards what lies ahead. It is not the end of the road, but the first
>> junction on a long journey. From what i believe, our aim is not just
>> making a movie of our own, it more than that. Mark the beginning of a
>> culture. Like i said, give a platform for like minded enthusiasts.
> I totally agree, but ask the questions, I can try to answer them.
Don't worry about questions :) am an expert in asking questions, i
believe i usually raise enough opportunities in the long mails for you
to answer me. If you ever feel like am beating around the bush or
going away from the true purpose, just let me know.
>> >> Legendary animators like Frank Thomas, Ollie Johnston and Tex Avery,
>> >> did most of their (handdrawn) animation on their own, when they
>> >> couldn't get assistants to fill in for them; its one of the greatest
>> >> example of how much interest and love you should have for animation to
>> >> do something with it.
>> >> I guess i'm too bloated with it, sorry guys, just got carried away...
>> >> <:)
>> It is nice of you to point to legends :)
>> I would say you never got carried away, you should discuss this in the
>> group, if you don't, it will simply end up as a movie by milad and
>> crew for gnulabs :)
>> Now its more like many other people at least can think that they have
>> a role and they are seeing and hearing something. Even if they can't
>> contribute much to this project, they will surely get the direction.
> Its a really disgusting idea, but its the truth...
Don't get disappointed, we are not making a animation movie production
studio here, think it more as building a club of animation
appreciators, among them potential people with interest and patience
for the job may be there.
>> Moreover, i think you should start talking about appreciating
>> animations. How to appreciate an animated movie is a big question.
>> Many people don't even understand how an animated movie can compete
>> for the oscars :) If you talk about latest innovations in animation
>> movies, i would say things in store are path breaking. Animated movies
>> didn't change much with technology. They just used it to improve the
>> productivity of existing methodologies. Now, people are experimenting
>> with chances of using technology to innovate and revolutionize how
>> animations are done.
> I'll post articles and related reading material on it soon.. Just
> gimme some time.
Take your own time. This not some thing you obliged to do, see it more
as sharing something you know, do it when you please. Its completely
Once again, its not movie which is important, but the journey towards
the movie is. So, be happy on whats happening and how its going on.
There are 3-4 groups in gnulab, and i haven't heard a word from most
of them(a language tech team, one OS related team, a speech related
team, some one who works on embedded etc.). So, be happy about things
and feel free to discuss with us at any stage. You are the man in the
ground so ultimately, its your decision on what to do or not to do. If
people are thinking about making a movie and leaving it aside, i would
say, better leave it now itself since its not going to change anything
:) . So, others be sure what you want out of this project, other than
a 5 min animation.
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I just have actually one thing to add, dont think you have to keep the
>> MESTECH in perspective. I am quite sure nothing new will happen in two
>> or three weeks. What i would say is, make maximum use of opportunity.
>> There are ways how you can use MESTECH. Like, more than the movie
>> itself, you can put the whole experience of making an animation movie
>> into a 1 hr presentation and tell it to every one. Pointing on how
>> things could have improved, if there was more communication, more
>> involvement, more time.
> Hiran suggested something similar; a presentation of an actual movie
> that'll only come out after mestech... it's a great idea, but this
> story isnt powerful enough to be given that 'professional' attention.
When you talk about a movie, the important thing is you will never
talk about the story :) If you feel the story is not strong, never
tell that, just tell the story of how you done it, without actually
telling anyone how to go about, may be including demos and tutorials
on different tools used and planning to use, problems and issues, what
is desired and what is not desired from a good animator, etc. can be
focused. Also, you can call experts from outside to give more life to
the whole effort. Also remember to highlight the tech part. There are
many ways on how to do a good presentation on something which is not
there :) I am pretty sure i can teach that to you people too. But,
first of all i think we(?) need to decide what is ultimately required
out of the project.
I don't know whether i am reading you right. In what i understand, you
want to make this as a learning curve where people can understand what
can be shared and how it can be done etc. than just making the movie.
From what i see, its not important whether you release the movie or
not. We are not working as a production house as i put before. We are
looking into the experience and the learning curve involved in the
work. In what i see, if people just say, whatever happens we should
release the movie by MESTECH, i say you should revisit the main goal
of the whole project. One thing everyone should understand is, we are
not working towards MESTECH, but it is an opportunity we like to use
for getting like minded passionate talents into the fold.
Moreover, if you think releasing a movie and showing it to people
without telling the story behind it, i don't think you will gain
anything. On my long years of experience, something which is inside
the vault has more value than something which is already out :) So, i
will advice you people to make maximum mileage out of it.
>> Don't get disappointed, we are not making a animation movie production
>> studio here, think it more as building a club of animation
>> appreciators, among them potential people with interest and patience
>> for the job may be there.
> Nicely put! But that doesnt seem to be there in everyone's agenda.
The answer to this should come from others. From this i understands at
least you are good with this idea :)
Moreover, one more thing i want to stress is, i work in a research lab
in IIIT,Hyderabad. Every year we require some people capable of and
passionate about technology. If you ask Mahesh, you will know to what
extent we usually go to get someone who is good into the institute.
So, all of you please take these activities to identify your field of
interest. If any of those conflict with the interests we have, i will
be very happy to recommend you people for a P.G. seat in IIIT.
Boy, am I brainwashed! I just lost the motivation to actually finish
this movie by MESTECH! All of you guys here, tell me, what is to be
done? Do we make a movie for the sake of it by MESTECH, or do we try
and establish a base to a semi-pro movie, taking time, developing and
finding skills? The latter actually gives the whole scenario a lot
more meaning, where interested people can actually learn from those
who know, and share their views to increase the productivity manifold.
I need your opinions and suggestions as soon as possible, cause I've
been working tirelessly on the project since the beginning of leave,
and I've suddenly stopped now; I wont move forward unless I get
something thats satisfactorily feasible; the whole point of it is
starting to seem very utterly useless to me now. Ok, we did it, we
displayed a movie for MESTECH; so what?
Maybe the only person who'll gain something here, is me, and MAYBE,
the rest who can learn the respective software tools and positions
given to them, but is that what this is all about? I dont know, its
all starting to sound odd. If we've got to this earlier, we could've
discussed about the movie, workshops, and could've taken professional
help; anything else, that could deeply promote this movie as a whole.
But I'm very VERY sure, that right now, if we deviate from the current
plans now, there's even a chance that NOTHING can happen, there wont
be that disillusioned goal of releasing it by the tech festival, or
anything more important, such that we could take this all seriously.
And personally, I'm not sure if i'll be here to help after s5 sem,
since i heard s6 doesnt even give the students time to breath, forget
Opinions, and FAST.
From my experience many events turn out to be double edged swords. On
the one side it energise people to get some work done, but on the
other side many see an event as an end in itself.
Discuss with everyone in the team and listen to what everyone has to say.
Like someone mentioned earlier, even if the movie is unfinished by
MESTECH, showcasing the effort that went in would still be worth
If the person who does the major part does not feel like rushing it, I
would be keen to listen to what he has in mind.
<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)
Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now!
> Like someone mentioned earlier, even if the movie is unfinished by
> MESTECH, showcasing the effort that went in would still be worth
> while, IMHO.
My 'IMHO' suggest the same. Start working. Announce at MESTECH.
Make a site like Orange Project (Manu/ Anivar/ Zyware will be to able
to support web things)
Think it as the first Open Movie from India, than thinking a student
movie for an event!
Note : That was my humble opinions. Please Read like it :D
IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | PGP : 4634C034 | W : http://hiran.in
Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you
answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html
make a movie with out talking.
I like to disagree, its better to make the movie and talk. Just make
sure the movie is made. Its communication which distinguishes a
collaborative project and am failing here to understand how we can do
that without talking.
Atul Chitnis: talk is cheap, show me the code.
Richard Stallman: we need more, not less, talk about freedom