The Open Movie Project [STAGE 1]

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Mladdy

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Nov 13, 2009, 4:41:45 AM11/13/09
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Well, here it is! The rough draft of the storyboard. Rough, in the
sense; VERY rough :). Mainly done so as to showcase what i have in my
mind; the series of shots, the sequences, the scenes. I can't explain
every single scene now, cause I'm in a bit of a hurry. hopefully, you
viewers can understand the story, else, anyone else who was with me
(Jishnu, sajjad, nitin, siraj or anyone) please brief out the story
here.

Sorry if the storyboard is too lousy in appearance, dynamics or the
sketching; I did it roughly around an hour, spent time on planning out
scenes- but hopefully it conveys the idea.

My next step is the set- been modelling the house, getting plant
meshes, and learnt matt-focus and real time conversion compositing for
the sake of the movie :D, i'm really getting all hitched up. I'll soon
post screenshots of the set, and yes, the wallpapers i promised :D and
definitely consider aspect ratios :)

Here's the link
http://picasaweb.google.com/agentmilo/MES_OMP_Storyboard?locked=true#

You have to have a gmail id and be signed in to see it- its private-ed
out :)

This week's been really busy; time to rest a bit!

Happy weekend!

Mladdy

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Nov 13, 2009, 4:46:31 AM11/13/09
to MES-FSUG
Well if you people want to know what are the stuff i used to do this-

I used Krita for painting and used a wacom tablet.

മഹേഷ് മുകുന്ദന്‍ | Mahesh M

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Nov 13, 2009, 8:13:31 AM11/13/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
Good work!

Here's the link
http://picasaweb.google.com/agentmilo/MES_OMP_Storyboard?locked=true#

You have to have a gmail id and be signed in to see it- its private-ed
out :)


Open movie with a closed story board? Come on man. That is the not the way to do it. Sharing mentality is the base for FOSS. Work accordingly.
 
This week's been really busy; time to rest a bit!


Let the discussion be open. Before finalising anything convey it to the list.

I think we must move the discussion to a more public list since more people will be interested.

Mentor: Please subscribe mes-fsug and ssug-malappuram to each other.
 
Happy weekend!


I would also like to see more faces in the discussion.

--
Regards,

Mahesh M
Happy hacking...

Sajjad Anwar

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Nov 13, 2009, 8:19:29 AM11/13/09
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2009/11/13 മഹേഷ് മുകുന്ദന്‍ | Mahesh M <maheshm...@gmail.com>

Good work!

Here's the link
http://picasaweb.google.com/agentmilo/MES_OMP_Storyboard?locked=true#

You have to have a gmail id and be signed in to see it- its private-ed
out :)


Open movie with a closed story board? Come on man. That is the not the way to do it. Sharing mentality is the base for FOSS. Work accordingly.
Yes, Mahesh has a point there. Things should be more open. Community has more to offer.
We would definitely  do this as soon as possible.
 
This week's been really busy; time to rest a bit!


Let the discussion be open. Before finalising anything convey it to the list.

I think we must move the discussion to a more public list since more people will be interested.

Mentor: Please subscribe mes-fsug and ssug-malappuram to each other.
 
 
Happy weekend!


I would also like to see more faces in the discussion.

--
Regards,

Mahesh M
Happy hacking...







--
Sajjad Anwar
http://geohackers.in
+91 9995 19 13 12

jinesh kj

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Nov 13, 2009, 8:38:42 AM11/13/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
hi,

2009/11/13 മഹേഷ് മുകുന്ദന്‍ | Mahesh M <maheshm...@gmail.com>:
> Good work!
>
>> Here's the link
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/agentmilo/MES_OMP_Storyboard?locked=true#
>>
>> You have to have a gmail id and be signed in to see it- its private-ed
>> out :)
>>
>
> Open movie with a closed story board? Come on man. That is the not the way
> to do it. Sharing mentality is the base for FOSS. Work accordingly.

Whatever the project be, the codes wont come out on day one mahesh :)
Though i don't know how the things go when it comes to story boards. I
will suggest something like an svn to keep these, which initially
accessible only to members and then will be opened to all, when the
team is confident.

It doesn't impair contribution by any length i think. Though a non
accessible picasa album might not be the solution.

sajjad,manu, help milad out in this case.

>
>>
>> This week's been really busy; time to rest a bit!
>>
>
> Let the discussion be open. Before finalising anything convey it to the
> list.
>
> I think we must move the discussion to a more public list since more people
> will be interested.
>
I think even this is a public list. If someone else is interested, let
them come and join the discussions here :)



> Mentor: Please subscribe mes-fsug and ssug-malappuram to each other.
>
>>
>> Happy weekend!
>>
>
> I would also like to see more faces in the discussion.

I was under the impression that, since most of these people meet in
the college and hostel, there was not much need for a discussion in
thread, other than updates or for people like us to criticize them :)
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Mahesh M
> Happy hacking...
>
>
> >
>


Jinesh K J
--
My Feelings,Expressions-
http://logbookofanobserver.blogspot.com

My scribblings-
http://logbookofanobserver.wordpress.com

SMC : My computer, My language http://smc.org.in
സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ്, എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിന് എന്റെ ഭാഷ

Mladdy

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Nov 13, 2009, 10:32:55 AM11/13/09
to MES-FSUG
> Open movie with a closed story board? Come on man. That is the not the way
> to do it. Sharing mentality is the base for FOSS. Work accordingly.

Whoa, I didnt think of it that way at all; I thought that people
should take SOME effort to view these files. I've opened it to the
public though, no need to sign in anymore.

>>I was under the impression that, since most of these people meet in
the college and hostel, there was not much need for a discussion in
thread, other than updates or for people like us to criticize them :)

Exactly the point that I'd like to reinforce. I'm not sure how many
people will or maybe CAN actually contribute something useful for this
project by just participating online in this list... Anything would be
really welcome though.

>>I will suggest something like an svn to keep these, which initially
accessible only to members and then will be opened to all, when the
team is confident.

Interesting idea; how do you go about it? I was for the idea that the
story elements be released only to be viewed by the movie volunteers,
but Sajjad wanted it to be public, so I did it. :)

Sajjad Anwar

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Nov 13, 2009, 11:03:09 AM11/13/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Open movie with a closed story board? Come on man. That is the not the way
> to do it. Sharing mentality is the base for FOSS. Work accordingly.

Whoa, I didnt think of it that way at all; I thought that people
should take SOME effort to view these files. I've opened it to the
public though, no need to sign in anymore.
 
Well, we understand you. But everyone on the list would not be able to ask you the key to the portal.

>>I was under the impression that, since most of these people meet in
the college and hostel, there was not much need for a discussion in
thread, other than updates or for people like us to criticize them :)

Exactly the point that I'd like to reinforce. I'm not sure how many
people will or maybe CAN actually contribute something useful for this
project by just participating online in this list... Anything would be
really welcome though.
 
There are a lot of people, like Hiran, Sadique, Unni. Hiran is expert in Graphic Designing and he can help in story boards. Sadique is a wizard in Blender, he has been handling workshops in and around the state for students and hackers. Unni is another artist, he is very fond of open movies and they infact have a lot of ideas and much a broader way of thought to things.
The Free Software domain is not only using and promoting FS tools, but it is also a big, strong community backed movement for sharing and co-operation. The community can handle every sphere of projects as there are experts in the group. This was the key idea behind why I was asking you people to push each detail including the story line on the list, before we fixed everything.

>>I will suggest something like an svn to keep these, which initially
accessible only to members and then will be opened to all, when the
team is confident.

Interesting idea; how do you go about it? I was for the idea that the
story elements be released only to be viewed by the movie volunteers,
but Sajjad wanted it to be public, so I did it. :)
svn is a good idea. We will soon plan things. First we need Hiran, and Unni into this list.

RouGue_Z

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Nov 13, 2009, 12:33:00 PM11/13/09
to MES-FSUG

hi,
my name is zadeek,this is my first post in mes-fsug. i would be very
much interested to jon in ur open movie project.
please if ur trying to finish the project , then complete the story
board fast. it takes a lot of time
to animate and render it in blender....

Mladdy

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Nov 13, 2009, 12:45:45 PM11/13/09
to MES-FSUG
Thanks for the tips zadeek; and yes, im aware of the fact that it
takes a lot of time to render (even without using third party
renderers) especially if you have stuff like ambient occlusion on.
I've a lot of experience using yafaray and luxrender but that simply
cannot be used for this movie.

The storyboarding is over, im working on the sets now, shall post
screenshots soon..

jinesh kj

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Nov 14, 2009, 1:52:05 AM11/14/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
hi milad,

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tips zadeek; and yes, im aware of the fact that it
> takes a lot of time to render (even without using third party
> renderers) especially if you have stuff like ambient occlusion on.
> I've a lot of experience using yafaray and luxrender but that simply
> cannot be used for this movie.
>
> The storyboarding is over, im working on the sets now, shall post
> screenshots soon..

I have some doubts actually. From what i understand, making a movie is
a collaborative effort. The areas where a lot of people with less
tech. know how of rendering can contribute on the parts like story
boarding, getting the script up etc.

I just want to know who all contributed or at least give a suggestion
or two before the story board is finalized(i have no problem even if
none commented, it just means none is interested in these things). I
don't like to raise any suggestions because, i am miles away from you
people and i am of the impression that you are better people than me
when it comes to visualizing all these things.

Why am asking this is, usually everyone will ask their students who
wants to do something with a movie as their career to watch at least
100 classic movies and understand the movie(not the story but the
technique of making it and visualizing it). Like where is the camera,
the way people move the way camera move, the way scenes are changed
and etc. etc. It all involves a lot of effort because, if you dont do
it right, movie will end up as just a set of scenes with no
connections with each other.

I am pretty sure that milad knows most of these things. What i want to
know is, how much discussion you had among others about these.
Because, in a collaborative environment, you more than doing your
work, usually passes some knowledge to others too. Other wise, in a
true sense, i don't think this will become a collaborative effort. It
will just become a movie by Milad and crew(Yes there is a difference
in both).

Regards

Mladdy

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Nov 14, 2009, 2:33:29 AM11/14/09
to MES-FSUG
@jinesh
> I have some doubts actually. From what i understand, making a movie is
> a collaborative effort. The areas where a lot of people with less
> tech. know how of rendering can contribute on the parts like story
> boarding, getting the script up etc.

It sure is; you see, i didnt come up with the actual story; other guys
(nitin and siraj) did, and a few others came over and developed it. I
put in a few ideas of my own too; but you see, im not doing all the
entire work; the major animating and 3d work; i wont be editing, i
wont have a hand in the sound dept; and other promo work. I think this
is, although vaguely, a collaborative work.

> I just want to know who all contributed or at least give a suggestion
> or two before the story board is finalized(i have no problem even if
> none commented, it just means none is interested in these things). I
> don't like to raise any suggestions because, i am miles away from you
> people and i am of the impression that you are better people than me
> when it comes to visualizing all these things.

Lot of people have the enthusiasm with the pure idea of the movie, i'm
sure whoever participated is not NOT interested. :)

> Why am asking this is, usually everyone will ask their students who
> wants to do something with a movie as their career to watch at least
> 100 classic movies and understand the movie(not the story but the
> technique of making it and visualizing it). Like where is the camera,
> the way people move the way camera move, the way scenes are changed
> and etc. etc. It all involves a lot of effort because, if you dont do
> it right, movie will end up as just a set of scenes with no
> connections with each other.

I spent quite a while analyzing the storyline and characters, which
camera would best suite this scene and so on; i hope there is no lack
of connection.

> I am pretty sure that milad knows most of these things. What i want to
> know is, how much discussion you had among others about these.
> Because, in a collaborative environment, you more than doing your
> work, usually passes some knowledge to others too. Other wise, in a
> true sense, i don't think this will become a collaborative effort. It
> will just become a movie by Milad and crew(Yes there is a difference
> in both).

Truth be said; i could've really used the help of another animator,
but i've yet to see a person with at least half the talent to do it;
worse, even the patience to stand for it consistently. Animation is a
unique form of art that can severely test your patience, and you'd
even go crazy if you dont have half the interest to do it.. its all
about planning.

if there was someone who knew the principles and concepts or REAL
character animation (not just simply animating with blender, flash or
maya, like moving stuff around) like someone, who has the basic idea
of giving the performance, involving the audience with the acting, or
timing, i could've spent more time improving the keyframes, cleaning
out the animation and passed on the in-betweens to my fellow worker;
but alas, like i said, there's no one i know of, nor is there the time
to find someone who can. A lot of people have interest in animation,
but when they see the actual work that is required to see the stuff in
motion, they back off.

Legendary animators like Frank Thomas, Ollie Johnston and Tex Avery,
did most of their (handdrawn) animation on their own, when they
couldn't get assistants to fill in for them; its one of the greatest
example of how much interest and love you should have for animation to
do something with it.

I guess i'm too bloated with it, sorry guys, just got carried away...
<:)

Sajjad Anwar

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Nov 14, 2009, 2:43:03 AM11/14/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:

@jinesh
> I have some doubts actually. From what i understand, making a movie is
> a collaborative effort. The areas where a lot of people with less
> tech. know how of rendering can contribute on the parts like story
> boarding, getting the script up etc.

It sure is; you see, i didnt come up with the actual story; other guys
(nitin and siraj) did, and a few others came over and developed it. I
put in a few ideas of my own too; but you see, im not doing all the
entire work; the major animating and 3d work; i wont be editing, i
wont have a hand in the sound dept; and other promo work. I think this
is, although vaguely, a collaborative work.

So far, it is a collaborative work inside the campus. People commented on the story, the story board, discussed what characters and who. Hopefully there have been involvement than we had expected. Even, we have few girls ready to let the visitors for the event understand foss and open movie projects.

> I just want to know who all contributed or at least give a suggestion
> or two before the story board is finalized(i have no problem even if
> none commented, it just means none is interested in these things). I
> don't like to raise any suggestions because, i am miles away from you
> people and i am of the impression that you are better people than me
> when it comes to visualizing all these things.

Lot of people have the enthusiasm with the pure idea of the movie, i'm
sure whoever participated is not NOT interested. :)

well, yes. all are interested.

> Why am asking this is, usually everyone will ask their students who
> wants to do something with a movie as their career to watch at least
> 100 classic movies and understand the movie(not the story but the
> technique of making it and visualizing it). Like where is the camera,
> the way people move the way camera move, the way scenes are changed
> and etc. etc. It all involves a lot of effort because, if you dont do
> it right, movie will end up as just a set of scenes with no
> connections with each other.

I spent quite a while analyzing the storyline and characters, which
camera would best suite this scene and so on; i hope there is no lack
of connection.
I guess this process was not well informed with others. The camera and other things could also be discussed in the list too. But I wont blame anyone because, we are really short of time.

> I am pretty sure that milad knows most of these things. What i want to
> know is, how much discussion you had among others about these.
> Because, in a collaborative environment, you more than doing your
> work, usually passes some knowledge to others too. Other wise, in a
> true sense, i don't think this will become a collaborative effort. It
> will just become a movie by Milad and crew(Yes there is a difference
> in both).

Truth be said; i could've really used the help of another animator,
but i've yet to see a person with at least half the talent to do it;
worse, even the patience to stand for it consistently. Animation is a
unique form of art that can severely test your patience, and you'd
even go crazy if you dont have half the interest to do it.. its all
about planning.

We can really rely on Zadeek. Things could be easily discussed over the list, before you make any decision for yourself. 

if there was someone who knew the principles and concepts or REAL
character animation (not just simply animating with blender, flash or
maya, like moving stuff around) like someone, who has the basic idea
of giving the performance, involving the audience with the acting, or
timing, i could've spent more time improving the keyframes, cleaning
out the animation and passed on the in-betweens to my fellow worker;
but alas, like i said, there's no one i know of, nor is there the time
to find someone who can. A lot of people have interest in animation,
but when they see the actual work that is required to see the stuff in
motion, they back off.

Legendary animators like Frank Thomas, Ollie Johnston and Tex Avery,
did most of their (handdrawn) animation on their own, when they
couldn't get assistants to fill in for them; its one of the greatest
example of how much interest and love you should have for animation to
do something with it.

I guess i'm too bloated with it, sorry guys, just got carried away...
<:)

jinesh kj

unread,
Nov 14, 2009, 3:47:42 AM11/14/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
hi,

I am glad i was able to initialize a discussion at least.

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Sajjad Anwar <sajj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> @jinesh
>> > I have some doubts actually. From what i understand, making a movie is
>> > a collaborative effort. The areas where a lot of people with less
>> > tech. know how of rendering can contribute on the parts like story
>> > boarding, getting the script up etc.
>>
>> It sure is; you see, i didnt come up with the actual story; other guys
>> (nitin and siraj) did, and a few others came over and developed it. I
>> put in a few ideas of my own too; but you see, im not doing all the
>> entire work; the major animating and 3d work; i wont be editing, i
>> wont have a hand in the sound dept; and other promo work. I think this
>> is, although vaguely, a collaborative work.
>
@milad
first of all, i have no problem who finally does the work. I was
actually not saying you should do like that or this. My intention was
to understand what new thing an open movie project brings to the
campus.

> So far, it is a collaborative work inside the campus. People commented on
> the story, the story board, discussed what characters and who. Hopefully
> there have been involvement than we had expected. Even, we have few girls
> ready to let the visitors for the event understand foss and open movie
> projects.
>>
@sajjad
I do understand this. The thing is, understanding of the political
importance of an open movie project is one thing. The understanding of
technological advantages of it is another and the understanding of
concept of collaboration is altogether different matter. Nobody have
to understand all these things to conceptualize and implement an open
movie project. It is something which happens on the go.

>> > I just want to know who all contributed or at least give a suggestion
>> > or two before the story board is finalized(i have no problem even if
>> > none commented, it just means none is interested in these things). I
>> > don't like to raise any suggestions because, i am miles away from you
>> > people and i am of the impression that you are better people than me
>> > when it comes to visualizing all these things.
>>
>> Lot of people have the enthusiasm with the pure idea of the movie, i'm
>> sure whoever participated is not NOT interested. :)
>
> well, yes. all are interested.
>>
>> > Why am asking this is, usually everyone will ask their students who
>> > wants to do something with a movie as their career to watch at least
>> > 100 classic movies and understand the movie(not the story but the
>> > technique of making it and visualizing it). Like where is the camera,
>> > the way people move the way camera move, the way scenes are changed
>> > and etc. etc. It all involves a lot of effort because, if you dont do
>> > it right, movie will end up as just a set of scenes with no
>> > connections with each other.
>>
>> I spent quite a while analyzing the storyline and characters, which
>> camera would best suite this scene and so on; i hope there is no lack
>> of connection.
>
@milad
I am no expert in the field to say whether it is right or wrong and
ultimately, there is no wrong in a creative venture. I am quite sure
you have a level of understanding of the problem and solutions. I just
wish you can help others too to pick up their vision on how to think
inside a movie.

> I guess this process was not well informed with others. The camera and other
> things could also be discussed in the list too. But I wont blame anyone
> because, we are really short of time.

@sajjad

I dont know whether for you people discussing over list will do any
good. It might help for people like us, but ultimately for someone to
get hold of the concepts(none will get it completely unless you put
the shoes of the one who makes the thing). Technologies related to
animation is a lucrative field with lot of money involved. Some one
who does simple animation on some tool is the layman labour there. i
have seen and interacted with people from the research labs of some
leading animations studios around the globe and believe me they need
people with interest in anything related to animation(from animators
to technocrats who can develop new tools and techniques for them).
>>
>> > I am pretty sure that milad knows most of these things. What i want to
>> > know is, how much discussion you had among others about these.
>> > Because, in a collaborative environment, you more than doing your
>> > work, usually passes some knowledge to others too. Other wise, in a
>> > true sense, i don't think this will become a collaborative effort. It
>> > will just become a movie by Milad and crew(Yes there is a difference
>> > in both).
>>
>> Truth be said; i could've really used the help of another animator,
>> but i've yet to see a person with at least half the talent to do it;
>> worse, even the patience to stand for it consistently. Animation is a
>> unique form of art that can severely test your patience, and you'd
>> even go crazy if you dont have half the interest to do it.. its all
>> about planning.
>
@milad

This is what i wanted to know. There will always be problems and the
interesting fact is, animators wont come up in a day. I took up my
line of work because of the passion i have towards it, the case is
same for sajjad/manu. So it might take time for some one to show up
the surface and say i have interest in this. He might be thinking its
not something i can't pursue for my life. The real achievement we can
get out of this venture is not having a 5 min animation movie(if you
think about it in a larger sense, there is nothing great in that). It
is the identification and building of a group of talents with same
passion.

> We can really rely on Zadeek. Things could be easily discussed over the
> list, before you make any decision for yourself.
@sajjad

this actually milad and zadeek should discuss among them and decide :)
there is a problem of wavelengths too when it comes to doing things
right. SInce all of you are now home, may be using list is a better
option to get the work going.
>>
>> if there was someone who knew the principles and concepts or REAL
>> character animation (not just simply animating with blender, flash or
>> maya, like moving stuff around) like someone, who has the basic idea
>> of giving the performance, involving the audience with the acting, or
>> timing, i could've spent more time improving the keyframes, cleaning
>> out the animation and passed on the in-betweens to my fellow worker;
>> but alas, like i said, there's no one i know of, nor is there the time
>> to find someone who can. A lot of people have interest in animation,
>> but when they see the actual work that is required to see the stuff in
>> motion, they back off.
@milad
You should point these things out. Again, this what many want to hear
from you people, how did you do your work, what problems did you face.
Most of them will be classic cases, but again you should go through
them to get things right. See this 5 min small movie as a small step
towards what lies ahead. It is not the end of the road, but the first
junction on a long journey. From what i believe, our aim is not just
making a movie of our own, it more than that. Mark the beginning of a
culture. Like i said, give a platform for like minded enthusiasts.

>>
>> Legendary animators like Frank Thomas, Ollie Johnston and Tex Avery,
>> did most of their (handdrawn) animation on their own, when they
>> couldn't get assistants to fill in for them; its one of the greatest
>> example of how much interest and love you should have for animation to
>> do something with it.
>>
>> I guess i'm too bloated with it, sorry guys, just got carried away...
>> <:)
It is nice of you to point to legends :)
I would say you never got carried away, you should discuss this in the
group, if you don't, it will simply end up as a movie by milad and
crew for gnulabs :)
Now its more like many other people at least can think that they have
a role and they are seeing and hearing something. Even if they can't
contribute much to this project, they will surely get the direction.

Moreover, i think you should start talking about appreciating
animations. How to appreciate an animated movie is a big question.
Many people don't even understand how an animated movie can compete
for the oscars :) If you talk about latest innovations in animation
movies, i would say things in store are path breaking. Animated movies
didn't change much with technology. They just used it to improve the
productivity of existing methodologies. Now, people are experimenting
with chances of using technology to innovate and revolutionize how
animations are done.

>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sajjad Anwar
> http://geohackers.in
> +91 9995 19 13 12
>
> >
>

Mladdy

unread,
Nov 14, 2009, 4:55:40 AM11/14/09
to MES-FSUG
@jinesh
> I do understand this. The thing is, understanding of the political
> importance of an open movie project is one thing. The understanding of
> technological advantages of it is another and the understanding of
> concept of collaboration is altogether different matter. Nobody have
> to understand all these things to conceptualize and implement an open
> movie project. It is something which happens on the go.

the whole concept of collaboration would've worked, wonderfully, given
we had the time...

> @milad
> I am no expert in the field to say whether it is right or wrong and
> ultimately, there is no wrong in a creative venture. I am quite sure
> you have a level of understanding of the problem and solutions. I just
> wish you can help others too to pick up their vision on how to think
> inside a movie.

You see, I'm no Blender Guru either; it just so happens that I happen
to know more about Blender that people here do; I'm self taught at it,
and had juiced out the online community for all kinds of help. People
said fsf and open source were utter piece of crap, but I tried out
Blender, and witnessed the magic it withheld, beneath all those
lucrative learning curves. I probably cant convince people to use it
completely, since in the end, its all about preference.

> This is what i wanted to know. There will always be problems and the
> interesting fact is, animators wont come up in a day. I took up my
> line of work because of the passion i have towards it, the case is
> same for sajjad/manu. So it might take time for some one to show up
> the surface and say i have interest in this. He might be thinking its
> not something i can't pursue for my life. The real achievement we can
> get out of this venture is not having a 5 min animation movie(if you
> think about it in a larger sense, there is nothing great in that). It
> is the identification and building of a group of talents with same
> passion.

+1000

I've been learning animation for years, both digital and manually; and
yes, I still think and know that this isnt the end of it; there's a
hell lot more to learn about it; an entire generation of
possibilities... Video game character designing, pixel based character
animation, high quality-poly friendly for the masses to see, believe
me, I've tried my hand in most of it... And like you, I honestly think
this isnt a big deal at all, but rather a venture to find out more
liek minded people, but its hasnt been successful so far. If only this
initiative was taken a few months back...

> @milad
> You should point these things out. Again, this what many want to hear
> from you people, how did you do your work, what problems did you face.
> Most of them will be classic cases, but again you should go through
> them to get things right. See this 5 min small movie as a small step
> towards what lies ahead. It is not the end of the road, but the first
> junction on a long journey. From what i believe, our aim is not just
> making a movie of our own, it more than that. Mark the beginning of a
> culture. Like i said, give a platform for like minded enthusiasts.

I totally agree, but ask the questions, I can try to answer them.

> >> Legendary animators like Frank Thomas, Ollie Johnston and Tex Avery,
> >> did most of their (handdrawn) animation on their own, when they
> >> couldn't get assistants to fill in for them; its one of the greatest
> >> example of how much interest and love you should have for animation to
> >> do something with it.
>
> >> I guess i'm too bloated with it, sorry guys, just got carried away...
> >> <:)
>
> It is nice of you to point to legends :)
> I would say you never got carried away, you should discuss this in the
> group, if you don't, it will simply end up as a movie by milad and
> crew for gnulabs :)
> Now its more like many other people at least can think that they have
> a role and they are seeing and hearing something. Even if they can't
> contribute much to this project, they will surely get the direction.

Its a really disgusting idea, but its the truth...

> Moreover, i think you should start talking about appreciating
> animations. How to appreciate an animated movie is a big question.
> Many people don't even understand how an animated movie can compete
> for the oscars :) If you talk about latest innovations in animation
> movies, i would say things in store are path breaking. Animated movies
> didn't change much with technology. They just used it to improve the
> productivity of existing methodologies. Now, people are experimenting
> with chances of using technology to innovate and revolutionize how
> animations are done.

I'll post articles and related reading material on it soon.. Just
gimme some time.

jinesh kj

unread,
Nov 14, 2009, 5:59:05 AM11/14/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
@milad


On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> @jinesh
>> I do understand this. The thing is, understanding of the political
>> importance of an open movie project is one thing. The understanding of
>> technological advantages of it is another and the understanding of
>> concept of collaboration is altogether different matter. Nobody have
>> to understand all these things to conceptualize and implement an open
>> movie project. It is something which happens on the go.
>
> the whole concept of collaboration would've worked, wonderfully, given
> we had the time...

I just have actually one thing to add, dont think you have to keep the
MESTECH in perspective. I am quite sure nothing new will happen in two
or three weeks. What i would say is, make maximum use of opportunity.
There are ways how you can use MESTECH. Like, more than the movie
itself, you can put the whole experience of making an animation movie
into a 1 hr presentation and tell it to every one. Pointing on how
things could have improved, if there was more communication, more
involvement, more time.


>
>> @milad
>> I am no expert in the field to say whether it is right or wrong and
>> ultimately, there is no wrong in a creative venture. I am quite sure
>> you have a level of understanding of the problem and solutions. I just
>> wish you can help others too to pick up their vision on how to think
>> inside a movie.
>
> You see, I'm no Blender Guru either; it just so happens that I happen
> to know more about Blender that people here do; I'm self taught at it,
> and had juiced out the online community for all kinds of help. People
> said fsf and open source were utter piece of crap, but I tried out
> Blender, and witnessed the magic it withheld, beneath all those
> lucrative learning curves. I probably cant convince people to use it
> completely, since in the end, its all about preference.

I am quite out of the field of animation and have no idea how good or
bad blender or in that case any tool related to this is. The way to
convince someone to use it is, showing them what you can do with it.
Thats exactly what you are doing now. So, there is nothing to think or
worry about. I would say, the question of FOSS adaption is a different
one from question of making a movie. FOSS adaption is usually of many
different reasons, back here, FOSS is kind of default because its
something which has less restrictions.

It might not be the case with everyone. For e.g. i have seen prof.s
back in kerala telling students to use only visual studio and .NET to
finish their project. Programming Language is just a tool to finish a
project to visualize the concepts he develop through the other steps
in developing the whole system. The student should be able to
distinguish and select the system and language he is comfortable with
and required for him. There is a difference between, all projects you
do should be a FOSS project and all projects you do should be with
JAVA/.NET. For an easy adaptation of FOSS, people should realize this
difference. Also they should understand there are multitude of
solutions for the problems they face.

If am correct, currently, autodesk has a kind of monopoly over the
applications related to design and modeling. They are default industry
standard. But, its not the most cost effective solution to go forward
and definitely not one a student can pursue for his academic purposes.
we may have to teach and preach a lot of people to make them
understand this. Everybody likes things as it is, it is difficult for
someone to digest the need for something which has a message of
freedom along with par or superior performance(its not the case
always).

So, not having people familiar with the systems we plan to use is a
primary problem and we can list it as one, and can think about what
can be done to solve it. People not having an understanding of FOSS
concepts is another and it should be addressed at different level.
Lastly, why a true collaborative efforts are not possible even in
closely knit community of students, who stay together in hostels is
another(it is a kind of social problem :)). Now its not time for us to
solve the problems, we are thinking about identifying them. When i was
there in MES, there were people who used to work in blender and GIMP.
But none used them for any work he done for college or for that matter
for others. Because, blender just came out then and GIMP was not
stable and very unreliable. Surely things are improving now. So, don't
worry about nothing is happening, be happy that you at least found
some interesting minds who can help you a little in working a movie
out.


>
>> This is what i wanted to know. There will always be problems and the
>> interesting fact is, animators wont come up in a day. I took up my
>> line of work because of the passion i have towards it, the case is
>> same for sajjad/manu. So it might take time for some one to show up
>> the surface and say i have interest in this. He might be thinking its
>> not something i can't pursue for my life. The real achievement we can
>> get out of this venture is not having a 5 min animation movie(if you
>> think about it in a larger sense, there is nothing great in that). It
>> is the identification and building of a group of talents with same
>> passion.
>
> +1000
>
> I've been learning animation for years, both digital and manually; and
> yes, I still think and know that this isnt the end of it; there's a
> hell lot more to learn about it; an entire generation of
> possibilities... Video game character designing, pixel based character
> animation, high quality-poly friendly for the masses to see, believe
> me, I've tried my hand in most of it... And like you, I honestly think
> this isnt a big deal at all, but rather a venture to find out more
> liek minded people, but its hasnt been successful so far. If only this
> initiative was taken a few months back...

So what you say is, you got a bunch of people who can make movies, and
may help out in any pre/post production activities but none who can
really do or have interest in the part "animation" of the movie? That
it self is a good thing. Now, we can look out side the campus in that
case :) to get more people when we think of more learning.

>
>> @milad
>> You should point these things out. Again, this what many want to hear
>> from you people, how did you do your work, what problems did you face.
>> Most of them will be classic cases, but again you should go through
>> them to get things right. See this 5 min small movie as a small step
>> towards what lies ahead. It is not the end of the road, but the first
>> junction on a long journey. From what i believe, our aim is not just
>> making a movie of our own, it more than that. Mark the beginning of a
>> culture. Like i said, give a platform for like minded enthusiasts.
>
> I totally agree, but ask the questions, I can try to answer them.

Don't worry about questions :) am an expert in asking questions, i
believe i usually raise enough opportunities in the long mails for you
to answer me. If you ever feel like am beating around the bush or
going away from the true purpose, just let me know.

>
>> >> Legendary animators like Frank Thomas, Ollie Johnston and Tex Avery,
>> >> did most of their (handdrawn) animation on their own, when they
>> >> couldn't get assistants to fill in for them; its one of the greatest
>> >> example of how much interest and love you should have for animation to
>> >> do something with it.
>>
>> >> I guess i'm too bloated with it, sorry guys, just got carried away...
>> >> <:)
>>
>> It is nice of you to point to legends :)
>> I would say you never got carried away, you should discuss this in the
>> group, if you don't, it will simply end up as a movie by milad and
>> crew for gnulabs :)
>> Now its more like many other people at least can think that they have
>> a role and they are seeing and hearing something. Even if they can't
>> contribute much to this project, they will surely get the direction.
>
> Its a really disgusting idea, but its the truth...

Don't get disappointed, we are not making a animation movie production
studio here, think it more as building a club of animation
appreciators, among them potential people with interest and patience
for the job may be there.

>
>> Moreover, i think you should start talking about appreciating
>> animations. How to appreciate an animated movie is a big question.
>> Many people don't even understand how an animated movie can compete
>> for the oscars :) If you talk about latest innovations in animation
>> movies, i would say things in store are path breaking. Animated movies
>> didn't change much with technology. They just used it to improve the
>> productivity of existing methodologies. Now, people are experimenting
>> with chances of using technology to innovate and revolutionize how
>> animations are done.
>
> I'll post articles and related reading material on it soon.. Just
> gimme some time.

Take your own time. This not some thing you obliged to do, see it more
as sharing something you know, do it when you please. Its completely
your discretion.

Once again, its not movie which is important, but the journey towards
the movie is. So, be happy on whats happening and how its going on.
There are 3-4 groups in gnulab, and i haven't heard a word from most
of them(a language tech team, one OS related team, a speech related
team, some one who works on embedded etc.). So, be happy about things
and feel free to discuss with us at any stage. You are the man in the
ground so ultimately, its your decision on what to do or not to do. If
people are thinking about making a movie and leaving it aside, i would
say, better leave it now itself since its not going to change anything
:) . So, others be sure what you want out of this project, other than
a 5 min animation.

Mladdy

unread,
Nov 14, 2009, 8:11:13 AM11/14/09
to MES-FSUG
@jinesh

> I just have actually one thing to add, dont think you have to keep the
> MESTECH in perspective. I am quite sure nothing new will happen in two
> or three weeks. What i would say is, make maximum use of opportunity.
> There are ways how you can use MESTECH. Like, more than the movie
> itself, you can put the whole experience of making an animation movie
> into a 1 hr presentation and tell it to every one. Pointing on how
> things could have improved, if there was more communication, more
> involvement, more time.

Hiran suggested something similar; a presentation of an actual movie
that'll only come out after mestech... it's a great idea, but this
story isnt powerful enough to be given that 'professional' attention.
AFAIK.

> I am quite out of the field of animation and have no idea how good or
> bad blender or in that case any tool related to this is. The way to
> convince someone to use it is, showing them what you can do with it.
> Thats exactly what you are doing now. So, there is nothing to think or
> worry about. I would say, the question of FOSS adaption is a different
> one from question of making a movie. FOSS adaption is usually of many
> different reasons, back here, FOSS is kind of default because its
> something which has less restrictions.

Yes, true.

> It might not be the case with everyone. For e.g. i have seen prof.s
> back in kerala telling students to use only visual studio and .NET to
> finish their project. Programming Language is just a tool to finish a
> project to visualize the concepts he develop through the other steps
> in developing the whole system. The student should be able to
> distinguish and select the system and language he is comfortable with
> and required for him. There is a difference between, all projects you
> do should be a FOSS project and all projects you do should be with
> JAVA/.NET. For an easy adaptation of FOSS, people should realize this
> difference. Also they should understand there are multitude of
> solutions for the problems they face.

> If am correct, currently, autodesk has a kind of monopoly over the
> applications related to design and modeling. They are default industry
> standard. But, its not the most cost effective solution to go forward
> and definitely not one a student can pursue for his academic purposes.
> we may have to teach and preach a lot of people to make them
> understand this. Everybody likes things as it is, it is difficult for
> someone to digest the need for something which has a message of
> freedom along with par or superior performance(its not the case
> always).

I just wish everyone here understood this. :(

> So what you say is, you got a bunch of people who can make movies, and
> may help out in any pre/post production activities but none who can
> really do or have interest in the part "animation" of the movie? That
> it self is a good thing. Now, we can look out side the campus in that
> case :) to get more people when we think of more learning.

The movie itself is not my utlimate goal here; i wanted to create a
situation where people could come forward to learn and share, which
seemingly isnt possible before the publishing of the movie; but the
idea is pretty plagued by the fact its supposed to be released by
MESTECH dates.

> Don't get disappointed, we are not making a animation movie production
> studio here, think it more as building a club of animation
> appreciators, among them potential people with interest and patience
> for the job may be there.

Nicely put! But that doesnt seem to be there in everyone's agenda.

jinesh kj

unread,
Nov 14, 2009, 8:57:52 AM11/14/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
@everyone around here


On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> @jinesh
>
>> I just have actually one thing to add, dont think you have to keep the
>> MESTECH in perspective. I am quite sure nothing new will happen in two
>> or three weeks. What i would say is, make maximum use of opportunity.
>> There are ways how you can use MESTECH. Like, more than the movie
>> itself, you can put the whole experience of making an animation movie
>> into a 1 hr presentation and tell it to every one. Pointing on how
>> things could have improved, if there was more communication, more
>> involvement, more time.
>
> Hiran suggested something similar; a presentation of an actual movie
> that'll only come out after mestech... it's a great idea, but this
> story isnt powerful enough to be given that 'professional' attention.
> AFAIK.

When you talk about a movie, the important thing is you will never
talk about the story :) If you feel the story is not strong, never
tell that, just tell the story of how you done it, without actually
telling anyone how to go about, may be including demos and tutorials
on different tools used and planning to use, problems and issues, what
is desired and what is not desired from a good animator, etc. can be
focused. Also, you can call experts from outside to give more life to
the whole effort. Also remember to highlight the tech part. There are
many ways on how to do a good presentation on something which is not
there :) I am pretty sure i can teach that to you people too. But,
first of all i think we(?) need to decide what is ultimately required
out of the project.

I don't know whether i am reading you right. In what i understand, you
want to make this as a learning curve where people can understand what
can be shared and how it can be done etc. than just making the movie.

From what i see, its not important whether you release the movie or
not. We are not working as a production house as i put before. We are
looking into the experience and the learning curve involved in the
work. In what i see, if people just say, whatever happens we should
release the movie by MESTECH, i say you should revisit the main goal
of the whole project. One thing everyone should understand is, we are
not working towards MESTECH, but it is an opportunity we like to use
for getting like minded passionate talents into the fold.

Moreover, if you think releasing a movie and showing it to people
without telling the story behind it, i don't think you will gain
anything. On my long years of experience, something which is inside
the vault has more value than something which is already out :) So, i
will advice you people to make maximum mileage out of it.

>
>> Don't get disappointed, we are not making a animation movie production
>> studio here, think it more as building a club of animation
>> appreciators, among them potential people with interest and patience
>> for the job may be there.
>
> Nicely put! But that doesnt seem to be there in everyone's agenda.

The answer to this should come from others. From this i understands at
least you are good with this idea :)

Moreover, one more thing i want to stress is, i work in a research lab
in IIIT,Hyderabad. Every year we require some people capable of and
passionate about technology. If you ask Mahesh, you will know to what
extent we usually go to get someone who is good into the institute.
So, all of you please take these activities to identify your field of
interest. If any of those conflict with the interests we have, i will
be very happy to recommend you people for a P.G. seat in IIIT.

Mladdy

unread,
Nov 14, 2009, 1:21:50 PM11/14/09
to MES-FSUG
Boy, am I brainwashed! I just lost the motivation to actually finish
this movie by MESTECH! All of you guys here, tell me, what is to be
done? Do we make a movie for the sake of it by MESTECH, or do we try
and establish a base to a semi-pro movie, taking time, developing and
finding skills? The latter actually gives the whole scenario a lot
more meaning, where interested people can actually learn from those
who know, and share their views to increase the productivity manifold.

I need your opinions and suggestions as soon as possible, cause I've
been working tirelessly on the project since the beginning of leave,
and I've suddenly stopped now; I wont move forward unless I get
something thats satisfactorily feasible; the whole point of it is
starting to seem very utterly useless to me now. Ok, we did it, we
displayed a movie for MESTECH; so what?

Maybe the only person who'll gain something here, is me, and MAYBE,
the rest who can learn the respective software tools and positions
given to them, but is that what this is all about? I dont know, its
all starting to sound odd. If we've got to this earlier, we could've
discussed about the movie, workshops, and could've taken professional
help; anything else, that could deeply promote this movie as a whole.

But I'm very VERY sure, that right now, if we deviate from the current
plans now, there's even a chance that NOTHING can happen, there wont
be that disillusioned goal of releasing it by the tech festival, or
anything more important, such that we could take this all seriously.
And personally, I'm not sure if i'll be here to help after s5 sem,
since i heard s6 doesnt even give the students time to breath, forget
sleep.

Opinions, and FAST.

Sajjad Anwar

unread,
Nov 14, 2009, 1:44:02 PM11/14/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 11:51 PM, Mladdy <agen...@gmail.com> wrote:

Boy, am I brainwashed! I just lost the motivation to actually finish
this movie by MESTECH! All of you guys here, tell me, what is to be
done? Do we make a movie for the sake of it by MESTECH, or do we try
and establish a base to a semi-pro movie, taking time, developing and
finding skills? The latter actually gives the whole scenario a lot
more meaning, where interested people can actually learn from those
who know, and share their views to increase the productivity manifold.

Well, undoubtedly,  we are going ahead with the movie project planning the release on MESTECH '09. We would choose this as a platform for building a team, and then planning a series of Open Movie projects. This could involve more brains.

I need your opinions and suggestions as soon as possible, cause I've
been working tirelessly on the project since the beginning of leave,
and I've suddenly stopped now; I wont move forward unless I get
something thats satisfactorily feasible; the whole point of it is
starting to seem very utterly useless to me now. Ok, we did it, we
displayed a movie for MESTECH; so what?

We know you have been working hard. Just dont get lost at this moment. Move ahead. Make sure you pull everything into the list.

Maybe the only person who'll gain something here, is me, and MAYBE,
the rest who can learn the respective software tools and positions
given to them, but is that what this is all about? I dont know, its
all starting to sound odd. If we've got to this earlier, we could've
discussed about the movie, workshops, and could've taken professional
help; anything else, that could deeply promote this movie as a whole.

Not you alone. Someone who is following the list is learning by one way or the other. So dont bother about that for the time being. Professional help could be sought and well planned with regard to the movie projects after the release of this. That is, after building a good team from the campus, learning and letting them learn. 

But I'm very VERY sure, that right now, if we deviate from the current
plans now, there's even a chance that NOTHING can happen, there wont
be that disillusioned goal of releasing it by the tech festival, or
anything more important, such that we could take this all seriously.
And personally, I'm not sure if i'll be here to help after s5 sem,
since i heard s6 doesnt even give the students time to breath, forget
sleep.

No deviation in plans right now, I guess. 

Opinions, and FAST.


Mladdy

unread,
Nov 15, 2009, 2:50:52 AM11/15/09
to MES-FSUG
@ Sajjad

Sorry to say this, but isn't very much the response I'd like hear. I
don't find a purpose in spending my time with this.

>Someone who is following the list is learning by one way or
the other. So dont bother about that for the time being.

No offense, but that's a very optimistic comment; aren't we trying to
think realistically with this?

I've resumed work on the movie; but still, I don't know why I'm doing
this. Guess I've to finish the work I started I guess, too much hope
has been dissipated. :P

Praveen A

unread,
Nov 15, 2009, 9:12:07 AM11/15/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
2009/11/15 Sajjad Anwar <sajj...@gmail.com>:

> Well, undoubtedly,  we are going ahead with the movie project planning the
> release on MESTECH '09. We would choose this as a platform for building a
> team, and then planning a series of Open Movie projects. This could involve
> more brains.

From my experience many events turn out to be double edged swords. On
the one side it energise people to get some work done, but on the
other side many see an event as an end in itself.

Discuss with everyone in the team and listen to what everyone has to say.

Like someone mentioned earlier, even if the movie is unfinished by
MESTECH, showcasing the effort that went in would still be worth
while, IMHO.

If the person who does the major part does not feel like rushing it, I
would be keen to listen to what he has in mind.

- Praveen
--
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)
Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now!
http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign

Hiran Venugopalan

unread,
Nov 15, 2009, 9:21:56 AM11/15/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
2009/11/15 Praveen A <pra...@gmail.com>:

> Like someone mentioned earlier, even if the movie is unfinished by
> MESTECH, showcasing the effort that went in would still be worth
> while, IMHO.

My 'IMHO' suggest the same. Start working. Announce at MESTECH.
Make a site like Orange Project (Manu/ Anivar/ Zyware will be to able
to support web things)

Think it as the first Open Movie from India, than thinking a student
movie for an event!

Note : That was my humble opinions. Please Read like it :D
--
H
IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | PGP : 4634C034 | W : http://hiran.in
Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you
answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html

Jemshid KK

unread,
Nov 16, 2009, 9:00:42 AM11/16/09
to mes-fsug
let me put my point here.
talk is cheap, show me the movie.
jemshid

Hiran Venugopalan

unread,
Nov 16, 2009, 9:02:17 AM11/16/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
2009/11/16 Jemshid KK <jems...@gmail.com>:

> let me put my point here.
> talk is cheap, show me the movie.

make it.
make a movie with out talking.

Mladdy

unread,
Nov 16, 2009, 9:07:53 AM11/16/09
to MES-FSUG
Easy for you all to say. :D I'll be posting the second poster today,
or soon.


SOMEONE COME UP WITH A NAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jinesh kj

unread,
Nov 16, 2009, 9:14:44 AM11/16/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Hiran Venugopalan <hir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 2009/11/16 Jemshid KK <jems...@gmail.com>:
>> let me put my point here.
>> talk is cheap, show me the movie.
>
> make it.
> make a movie with out talking.

I like to disagree, its better to make the movie and talk. Just make
sure the movie is made. Its communication which distinguishes a
collaborative project and am failing here to understand how we can do
that without talking.

Praveen A

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Nov 16, 2009, 10:58:32 AM11/16/09
to mes-...@googlegroups.com
2009/11/16 Jemshid KK <jems...@gmail.com>:

> let me put my point here.
> talk is cheap, show me the movie.
> jemshid
>

Atul Chitnis: talk is cheap, show me the code.
Richard Stallman: we need more, not less, talk about freedom

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