marathoning -- some confusion about pacing.

[CtheRM]

hi!

I'm running the Columbus Marathon in October (the 21st, to be exact),
and I'm struggling with figuring out appropriate pacing for my
training. I have consulted a number of sources, ranging from RW online
(i.e., kind of fluffy) to Jack Daniel's Running Formula (i.e.,
competitive) to Hal Higdon's online training site (somewhere in
between RW and JD). I'm inclined to think that I should be running
faster and at higher mileage than RW calculates, but I don't know how -
much- faster. And, while JD gives projected marathon times based upon
recent race times, I'm not entirely sure of what my training pace
should be. Higdon suggests running long runs at 45-90 seconds / mile
slower than projected marathon pace, but I'm not clear on my projected
marathon pace. Etcetera.

I ran a 47:40 10k in Berlin (with Ralf's running club -- see post
below!) -- I think I could have run it a bit faster with smarter
pacing (I ran the first two miles too fast). My last marathon time was
3:50, which I would very much like to beat, but it was three years
ago, and I'm struggling to assess my current fitness level more
precisely.

At the moment, the training plan I'm following includes mid-week tempo
runs at 7:40 pace (so far no problem with that -- that was my overall
10k pace, so it feels fine) and long runs at 9:19 pace (likewise, no
problem -- ran 12 miles last weekend at 9:04 pace). Is 9:19 too slow
for a long run? Should I be trying to run it faster? The peak mileage
on this schedule is 40, which seems about 10 miles too low to me.
Could I ask for some opinions on this? Would you recommend running the
long run faster, or keeping it at ~9:19 and aiming for longer mid-week
tempo runs (the longest tempo run on the schedule right now is 8 miles
total, with 5 miles in the middle at the 7:40 pace)? Should I add an
extra run to the week to get overall mileage a bit higher? (Currently
the plan only includes 5 runs / week.) I am conscious of avoiding
"junk miles."

Has anyone else tried RW's online training calculator? I'm skeptical
of it, because even at the "hard" setting it generated what seems like
a rather slow, low mileage training plan. But then I might be
overzealous about pacing long runs.

Thanks for any and all comments.

[CtheRM]

One additional comment:

Obviously I could fill in the gaps by using JD's projected marathon
time to calculate my long run pacing. But I'm not sure of whether JD
and Higdon's expectations are commensurate (does this make sense?).

(This is all complicated by the fact that it's almost impossible for
me to believe that I could actually run a marathon at a pace 90
seconds faster per mile than my long runs. Is this really possible???)

Thanks,
"Christina the Runningmunchkin"

[Horace]

It certainly is possible! But if you think you can run the long runs
faster without shooting yourself in the foot for the rest of the
week's training, go for it.

Do you have marathon-paced runs in there too, esp. towards the end?

Mileage-wise, sure, go for more if you can take it. Not to say these
fancy training strategies aren't worthwhile, but by far the best
predictor of my performance has been simple mileage.

Signed,

A 10-mpw runner

[CtheRM]

10 > 0
which I do believe is ontologically significant.

I don't have any MP runs in the schedule -- and, upon your question
(and further JD reading), I'm beginning to think I really ought to.
The "trouble" is that my schedule at the moment involves the speed day
(tempos / intervals) on Wednesdays, and I'm not sure of where I would
fit an MP run before Saturday's long run. I would simply plan to
switch the speed day to Tuesday and run MP runs every other Thursday
or something, except that ... my husband is planning to run this
marathon, as well (his first!), and I would like to keep us running on
the same days if not at the same pace as much as possible, for a more
team-like effort. That may sound like a rock and a hard place of my
own design (anyone seen the Simpsons trailer yet? yay!), but it's
worth it to me to keep the general shape of our training the same.

Hal Higdon's advanced schedule places MP runs and long runs on
consecutive days -- he calls the MPs "pace" runs, and their distance
is half the distance of the long run. Have you run them on consecutive
days before? Are there any particular benefits to this, besides
trashing your legs?

Also: do you believe in junk miles? I agree that getting my mileage up
>40 is important for the marathon, but I don't want just to add miles
that make me less able to run the quality stuff at the right
intensity. I suppose there's just a sweet spot someplace I should
shoot for.

Thanks!

Cheers,
C

[CtheRM]

Sadly, all of these questions are temporarily irrelevant, as I
sprained my ankle on Saturday (fell on a stupid little rock).

Bah humbug.