Mathcad, Mathmatica, and TI Calculators
SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH
the better product for an amateur? I've used Mathcad before and like
it, but the software has some problems. The other day, I noticed it
was making mistakes, giving me some negative decimal for the sine of
90 degrees instead of 1. I may have to reinstall it and see if that
clears up the problem....Has anyone else had this trouble with
Mathcad?
I'm also going to get my college-age son a new calculator, and the
school requires at least a ti-83. Are there any advantages to getting
a ti-89 or a ti-92?
Thanks!
--
Cindy Smith I have further observed under the sun that
c...@dragon.com The race is not won by the swift,
c...@5sc.net Nor the battle by the valiant;
c...@romancatholic.org Nor is bread won by the wise,
Me transmitte sursum, Nor wealth by the intelligent,
Caledoni! Nor favor by the learned.
A Real Live Catholic For the time of mischance comes to all.
in Georgia! -- JPS Ecclesiastes 9:11
james
James
c...@cygnus.dragon.com (SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH) wrote in message news:<tj2WZw...@cygnus.dragon.com>...
SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH
jame...@hotmail.com (james) writes:
> I don't know the product, but maybe it calculates trig functions in radians.
Yes, I knew that but couldn't figure out how to get it to express in
degrees. Apparently, you type in the letters "deg" after the number
to get it to give the result in degrees. I should have rtfm'ed, but I
tend to rely on online help, which wasn't very helpful. Thanks.
> James
PSmith9626
Get him the cheapest calculator that the school allows. Calculators are a waste
of money, and do not improve the learning process.
But, some schools have gone on the "graphing calculator" bandwagon. They
would do better to teach graph sketching using elementary calculus in the time
honored way.
best
penny
Anyone, who doesn't believe that: try to get a good understanding of the graph
of:
z=xy/(x^2+y^2) for (x,y) in R^2-{0,0} with your graphing calculator or
Mathematica.
( From the right conceptual perspective, this graph can be seen in your head!)
PSmith9626
I was teaching calculus with calculators and computers long before you got into
the teaching game. Starting in 1974.
best
penny
>Sometimes it is time to give up the old tried and true and realize
>that new tools can help students understand more thoroughly and more
>quickly.
And sometimes, one finds out that the tried and true are tried and true for a
good reason.
>Those calculators are used primarily in pre-calculus level courses.
I wouldn't know. I don't teach precalculus.
IMHO precalculus should not be given university credit. It is a high school
subject. My school doesn't teach it.
>I use the calculator in calculus as well. That doesn't mean I don't
>teach graph sketching using elementary calculus. T
I hope so. Have you tried to plot the graph I suggested with the calculator?
>The calculator is a
>useful tool in addition to hand calculation and graph sketching
University math is about concepts, not about useful machines.If the students
have minds, they don't need calculators to understand limits or graphs.
>That doesn't mean I don't
>teach graph sketching using elementary calculus.
I should hope so.
Ed Kitto
> dear mary,
> I was teaching calculus with calculators and computers long before you
> got "into the teaching game. Starting in 1974.
You are right about calculators, though for some who have negotiated
part of the labyrinth: they may find "Excalibur" of use; a RPN 32-bit
programmable FREE download!
BruceS
news:20021229083333...@mb-ct.aol.com...
> dear mary,
> I was teaching calculus with calculators and computers long before you got
into
> the teaching game. Starting in 1974.
> best
> penny
>
> >Sometimes it is time to give up the old tried and true and realize
> >that new tools can help students understand more thoroughly and more
> >quickly.
>
> And sometimes, one finds out that the tried and true are tried and true
for a
> good reason.
In the same vein, does it help computer programmers to know how a flip-flop
works, or a NAND gate, or how to build a simple circuit like an accumulator
from gates? Or should they just be provided a GUI IDE and shown how to write
simple Windows apps?
I believe the graphing calculators don't so much help a student fully
understand graphing, as they obscure the students' lack of understanding.
Such tools should be used only after the student understands fully how to
work without it.
In other words, Penny, "me too".
PSmith9626
Right. Calculators do tend to obscure the students lack of understanding.
I also don't think computer programmers need to study computer circuit design.
I agree with you.
best
penny
>Message-id: <auq8j1$4...@chicago.us.mensa.org>
PSmith9626
referred to.
If you are programming ultra high speed -memory intensive special purpose
supercomputers, or PLC/PIC/ Stamp embedded computer controllers, it would help
to understand the architecture at the basic level.
best
penny
BruceS
I meant that it *does* help the programmer to know what's going on "under
the hood", just as it helps a mathematician to know how to graph by hand
(better yet, see it mentally). The GUI IDE approach lets someone who
understands nothing about real programming produce a program with very
limited functionality, and pretend to be a programmer. Some schools are now
teaching specific high level languages (like C++) without the students
understanding data structures, constructs, etc. One of my former coworkers
decried schools teaching syntax or restricting to any specific macro
language. At the time I thought that was extreme, but I've come to agree.
I've worked with too many people who had no idea how to design data
structures and algorithms appropriate to their needs. I don't think students
should do everything from scratch, but they should know how things work.
Maybe understanding a PN junction, or even a gate, is a too much to ask,
though.
PSmith9626
I remember those electric calculators: many were by Frieden corp: Chattering
monsters with rows of repeating integer keys. They were still used in stats
courses in 1972, which I thought ridiculous, since electronic calculators were
around by then, and since we had the IBM 360 (replaced by a 370, soon after)
best
penny
>My of my other assignments was to guard the electric/mechnical
>calculator labs, and unplug any that got stuck dividing by zero for a
>few hours a week.
>programming assignments on the PDP-10.
In 1978, I got to play with an LSI-11 which was electronically a PDP-11 on one
chip.
It used RS-11 and then we converted it UNIX.
> Ah yes,
>pip. I hated it and stuck with line edit.
Anyone remember the IBM 1130? I used Fortan II to program this in high school.
We also had an Olvetti-Underwood Programma 101, which was a programmable
electronic calculator the size of a small tabletop. This was long before HP
calculators.
Feek O'Hanrahan
I use to program embedded systems, and I have to say that while I already
knew a good deal about the internals of PCs, learning and understanding the
minutae of embedded systems (I had to, since I was programming operating
systems on them) helped me understand what a PC does better. Granted, I
didn't *need* to know that stuff to program Windows (which I also did for a
while), but it did help me understand why Windows does what it does a lot of
times.
However, speaking to that, having also programmed web applications (one of
my less ingenious career descisions :), I can say that web programmers have
very little need to know what goes on in the internals of a PC because they
are so insulated from it.
--
Left to themselves, thoughts will merely spin in circles, racing
themselves down a path they've already beaten.
- Tyler Trafford
Tracy Yucikas
"PSmith9626" <psmit...@aol.com> wrote
>
> Anyone remember the IBM 1130? I used Fortan II to program this in high
school.
dear penny,
I think it was the "school computer" at NMSU in the late 60's.
(I struggled thru a Fortran class wherein the ideas sorta made
sense, but implementation gummed up the werks since all
the students had to submit their stacks of punchcards at the
same half-door ... quirky little language/syntax/format issues
.. the math was much more fun in those days, not requiring
learning of programming languages)
the IBM 360 came along before I dropped out
peace,
tracy
PSmith9626
I agree.
best
penny
>Maybe understanding a PN junction, or even a gate, is a too much to ask,
>though.
That is all I meant.
>I've worked with too many people who had no idea how to design data
>structures and algorithms appropriate to their needs. I don't think students
>should do everything from scratch, but they should know how things work.
100%, in agreement.
PSmith9626
I hate this sig. It makes me cringe.
best
penny
>Left to themselves, thoughts will merely spin in circles, racing
>themselves down a path they've already beaten.
>- Tyler Trafford
Not for creative people.
Feek O'Hanrahan
I have it more for how poetic it is (it has a certain odd cadence), not for
how true it is (although I think it is truer for most people than first
glance would have you think).
I have many other sigs, but this one's my current favorite.
--
BruceS
Good. Sometimes the way I word things leads people to take my meaning 180
degrees from what I intend. I'm a big fan of tools and tech, but hate to see
them introduced to people at the wrong stage of their education. First teach
the underlying principles, having the students use simple tools, then
provide the tools that use these principles to skip to the next step.
I favor requiring all programmers to have to understand basic math, boolean
algebra, data structures, recursion, callbacks, and procedural programming
before being allowed to write any code. This would not only improve the
quality of the work produced, it would also substantially reduce the number
of potential candidates, thereby allowing me to charge a *lot* more for my
services!
rian
be a remark by someone, a dream or a sentence in a book, to get out of
the proverbial spinningwheel to get ahead in a creative process.
--
Cole's Axiom: The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant.
The population is growing.
Rian
"PSmith9626" <psmit...@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:20030102223341...@mb-mj.aol.com...
BruceS
news:av2l09$q...@chicago.us.mensa.org...
<snip>
> However, speaking to that, having also programmed web applications (one of
> my less ingenious career descisions :), I can say that web programmers
have
> very little need to know what goes on in the internals of a PC because
they
> are so insulated from it.
I'm doing this now, and have to agree, except that very few of the people
doing web are programmers. I wonder how much better designed web
applications would be if they were all written by competent programmers. The
hard part is getting competent programmers to do web. Sort of like asking an
MD to take the patient's temperature.
Feek O'Hanrahan
> "Feek O'Hanrahan" <feek...@XattbiX.XcomX> wrote in message
> news:av2l09$q...@chicago.us.mensa.org...
> <snip>
>> However, speaking to that, having also programmed web applications
>> (one of my less ingenious career descisions :), I can say that web
>> programmers have very little need to know what goes on in the
>> internals of a PC because they are so insulated from it.
>
> I'm doing this now, and have to agree, except that very few of the
> people doing web are programmers. I wonder how much better designed
> web applications would be if they were all written by competent
> programmers.
The same could be said about a lot of desktop applications. 8^D
So far, the only programming I've done that seems to be self-filtering is
embedded systems programming. Of course, it's all relative, since in
embedded programming, a few milliseconds is an eternity.
> The hard part is getting competent programmers to do
> web. Sort of like asking an MD to take the patient's temperature.
True. I got into it because I was stupid enough to be lured by dollar signs.
--
"This is my father's favorite medical text book. Read it long enough
and it will show you the error of your ways" - Charity Trask, "Dark
Shadows"
Joseph
people whose graphing understanding consists of getting calculators and
spreadsheets to show what they want, should not be considered as being
in
the same class as people who can and do calculate them directly.
Joseph
BruceS wrote:
> <snip>
Joseph
understand pn junctions, FET's, et cetera. they should be introduced to
boolean algebra and gates, the gates are nearly irrelevant but are
useful in teaching beginning program logic. The real target (after
teaching the underlying ideas and some not so obvious consequences) is
program architecture (how the various parts relate). Pedagogic programs
tend to be way too simple (teach a minor underlying idea) and realistic
work (upgrade an existing comercial/open source product) is not done in
college/university curriculums. in comparison teaching lambda-calculus
without teaching how to use it is equally useless for most students.
Joseph
Bill Vajk
> I largely agree with you, programmers really have no realistic need to
> understand pn junctions, FET's, et cetera. they should be introduced to
> boolean algebra and gates, the gates are nearly irrelevant but are
> useful in teaching beginning program logic. The real target (after
> teaching the underlying ideas and some not so obvious consequences) is
> program architecture (how the various parts relate). Pedagogic programs
> tend to be way too simple (teach a minor underlying idea) and realistic
> work (upgrade an existing comercial/open source product) is not done in
> college/university curriculums. in comparison teaching lambda-calculus
> without teaching how to use it is equally useless for most students.
I think you ignore the significance of educating real programmers.
You know, the ones capable of programming in low level languages,
assembler, or even machine code. Database theory, beyond language
considerations, has become important in today's world, and that is
well beyond the scope of most of those calling themselves programmers
despite the fact that databases constitute the bulk of today's computer
related focus.
If we really educated programmers I dare say we wouldn't have nearly
so much bloatware, nor would we rely on oversizing hardware as the
solution to spectacular programmer incompetence.
The first public access dial-up bbs consisted of 10,000 lines of
Z-80 assembler code running under CP/M and was on line for a decade
on a floppy drive. It was written, start to up-and-running, by a
solitary programmer in under a week. The same fellow wrote and
incorporated zmodem into his code (and put it in the public domain.)
It was said that to him (Ward Christensen) assembler was a high level
language. He grudgingly stopped writing his own OS when CP/M became
available.
That's programming.
rian
grade of the middle vocational schools (grade 11). I have a certificate
to teach it there.
--
Cole's Axiom: The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant.
The population is growing.
Rian
"Joseph" <jose...@bigvalley.net> schreef in bericht
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Joseph
for at least three machines before i even had an assembler. I still
used assembler until several years ago when i no longer had to write
device
drivers. compiler library developers is about the only group left
writing
in "primitive" assembler. Chip developers write vhdl, not gates, nor
even state machines. these are now "primitives". database theory, and
its underlying type theory, file system theory, and search theory are
standard undergraduate courses. don't believe me (?), go to any State
university and check the required curriculum for 'computer software
developer/engineer' or rough equivalent degrees. Even embedded
processor
people are writing in c/c++ and higher level stuff. this ain't the '60s
or 70's no more.
And the more the hell of it is, that i have been out if "it" for about
a decade. hell, i know electrical engineers that have no idea what a pn
junction is.
Joseph
Bill Vajk
> Oh boy, did you ever take on the wrong person.
I didn't.