Art Smart
R. K. Henry
art museum( http://www.knoxart.org ) to see the the M.C. Escher exhibit on
display there. Now it looks like this week might be my opportunity to link
up with my sister see something I'd like to see and let the cherubs see some
kind of art besides Pokémon cards.
So with the idea that it's better to look at these things with some prior
idea of what you're looking at, any suggestions? program notes? I've always
been fascinated by the Escher works here's an opportunity for me to see 85
of them all in one place. I'm sure the bunch in this group ought to be able
to provide some interesting insights.
--
Bob
Opus (:>
"R. K. Henry" wrote:
--
Opus (:>
"I wish the stage were as high and narrow as a tightrope so that only the most
highly trained would dare to venture out upon it." --Goethe
http://www.carla.coble.com -Acting site
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PSmith9626
Escher was motivated by mathematical ideas: Symmetry, Broken Symmetry,
change of dimension, perspective illusions, limits etc.,. I don't know a good
source offhand but I wonder if some of it is described in "Godel, Escher ,
Bach" by Hofstadter? Also , the collected works of Martin Gardner discuss many
of these ideas , and sometimes Escher specifically.
best
penny
Typical Escher: A tesselation of the disc into gods and angles approaching the
boundary as a limit. The idea is from complex analysis and non-euclidean
geometry.
As a girl , I used to favor the lizard that crawled between two and three
dimensions.
CRxx
PSmith9626 heeft geschreven in bericht <20000320175358.27035.00000038@ng-
>As a girl , I used to favor the lizard that crawled between two and three
>dimensions.
I liked the tiretracks in which was some water in which a huge fish was
swimming.
Christine!
>
PSmith9626
Also cool. Escher liked fish as a motif.
best
penny
>Message-id: <uKyB4.3106$bA1.1...@amoeba1.soneraplaza.nl>
R. K. Henry
> No ideas on Escher, but as you're driving through Nashville, wave at me.
Sorry. Coming from the other direction and won't be getting anywhere near
Nashville.
--
Bob
CRxx
PSmith9626 heeft geschreven in bericht
>dear christine,
> Also cool. Escher liked fish as a motif.
> best
> penny
The funny thing is he never actually drew my favourite. In my memory i have
combined two different pictures of his. On of the tiretracks filled with
water, one of a forest reflected in water in which the fish was swimming.
But i still like that one ;'-)
I used to have Escher as a background on my homepage, and a minimalized
picture of two hands drawing each other as a mail me knob. That
homepageversion is gone now.
Christine!
Rian
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CRxx <xxr...@multiweb.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
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>
> PSmith9626 heeft geschreven in bericht
Rian
tetraeder and such). I love Escher. He was Dutch you know! Everyone here
has at least one reproduction.
Rian
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PSmith9626 <psmit...@aol.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
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> dear bob,
> Escher was motivated by mathematical ideas: Symmetry, Broken
Symmetry,
> change of dimension, perspective illusions, limits etc.,. I don't know
a good
> source offhand but I wonder if some of it is described in "Godel,
Escher ,
> Bach" by Hofstadter? Also , the collected works of Martin Gardner
discuss many
> of these ideas , and sometimes Escher specifically.
> best
> penny
>
> Typical Escher: A tesselation of the disc into gods and angles
approaching the
> boundary as a limit. The idea is from complex analysis and
non-euclidean
> geometry.
>
dennis curtis
Rian
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dennis curtis <curt...@gte.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
38D83C86...@gte.net...
PSmith9626
Polyhedra: eg., Tetrahedron, Octahedron
best
penny
CRxx
dennis curtis heeft geschreven in bericht <38D83C86...@gte.net>...
> I am an artist. I prefer Gris or Klee.--dc
A strange statement. What does being an artist add to your liking of artists
like Paul Klee, who did some nice upside down bluebirds. (Wasn't that the
painting that was exposed upside down for weeks before someone actually
noticed it was upside down?)
Don't know Gris or anekdotes.
It just feels a tad elitist, which is okay, but i really did not expect
this. Am i reading you wrong or what?
Christine!
CRxx
Rian heeft geschreven in bericht
<953705199.12312....@news.demon.nl>...
>well, yes, but as an engineer, he drew interesting pictures!
I guess you must be enjoying Stegemann every now and then too?
Christine!
Rian
dennis curtis
Rian wrote:
>
> well, yes, but as an engineer, he drew interesting pictures!
>
> --
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> dennis curtis <curt...@gte.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
> 38D83C86...@gte.net...
> > I am an artist. I prefer Gris or Klee.--dc
> >
dennis curtis
down on his easel and coming back to it sometime later, found he
liked it better that way and is credited as a result with creating
the entire genre of abstract art. Juan Gris was,IMO, the best of the
Cubist painters. I see nothing strange about liking one thing over
another. If I sounded elitist,then delete the artist part of the
sentence. I like many other artists to Escher is all I was saying.
Escher was a wonderful printmaker. His pattern prints are my
favourites of his works.
--dc
CRxx wrote:
>
> dennis curtis heeft geschreven in bericht <38D83C86...@gte.net>...
>
> > I am an artist. I prefer Gris or Klee.--dc
>
R. K. Henry
> CRxx wrote:
>
> > What does being an artist add to your liking of
> > artists like Paul Klee, who did some nice upside down bluebirds.
>
> Well, I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. And what I
like
> is Klimt and Hopper. Ooooo, I love Hopper. Also Turner.
I notice that Hopper is another artist who has been emulated frequently. I
saw a television ad starring Bill Cosby in which he played a detective
explaining to a young woman the advantages of getting "Turner Classic
Movies" from your cable or satellite provider. The action took place in a
cafe very reminiscent of "Nighthawks."
Klee and Klimt, I don't know. I rather like sharp, precise, lines depicting
geometric perfection--somewhat like Escher--even if Escher's precise lines
are somewhat oddly placed at times. That what I like about photography,
clean, sharp lines. If things are out-of-focus there's a reason for it and
you can use that to good purpose. And the smooth, even tonalities. (That's
one reason I'm fascinated by airbrush.) If you want to distort perspective
the view camera swings will take care of most things for you. Does that say
anything about me? That I have absolutely no artistic instincts? Probably.
Having a rather mechanical, geometric view of the world may make me soulless
but I guess I'll just have to accept that.
Of course you realize I haven't see most of these art pieces, only pictures.
One online source for us ignorant yahoos in the hinterlands:
http://www.artchive.com/
--
Bob
R. K. Henry
> dear bob,
> Escher was motivated by mathematical ideas: Symmetry, Broken
Symmetry,
> change of dimension, perspective illusions, limits etc.,. I don't know a
good
> source offhand but I wonder if some of it is described in "Godel, Escher ,
> Bach" by Hofstadter? Also , the collected works of Martin Gardner discuss
many
> of these ideas , and sometimes Escher specifically.
> best
> penny
>
> Typical Escher: A tesselation of the disc into gods and angles approaching
the
> boundary as a limit. The idea is from complex analysis and non-euclidean
> geometry.
>
> As a girl , I used to favor the lizard that crawled between two and three
> dimensions.
Thanks Penny. Someone at a monthly gathering with whom I was discussing
Escher described him as a frustrated mathematician--the viewpoint of
computer programmer. Said she had a T-shirt of "drawing hands." Isn't it
cool to have someplace with people with whom you can talk about such things?
Well I went Thursday afternoon. Took mom, my sister, and her kids and all
enjoyed it. Pretty good show, organized by the National Gallery of Art.
Worth a trip if you don't have to drive too far.
I suppose the "approaching the boundary as a limit" to which you refer is
probably illustrated by the exhibited piece "Circle of Limits III." The
exhibit included a working paper on this piece (along with the original
woodcuts) which showed how the relative size of the elements moving toward
the outside of the circle was mathematically determined. Arcs, apparently
drawn with a compass, extend from the edge of the large circle and there are
X's at various points. I don't really understand the relationship, yet,
bears further study I suppose if I can find someplace to read up on it.
I'm not sure I quite see all the mathematics here. But then I tend to
recognize mathematics in almost everything so maybe it's staring me in the
face and I just don't see it. And of course there are all kinds of
mathematics that I'm unfamiliar with. I'd like to learn.
The exhibit was as I hoped: that you really can see more from the original
reproductions (after all they're all reproductions, that's the point) than
from a JPG off the internet or a single-color halftoned reproduction in a
book. Well, especially so for a 23-foot long print like "Metamorphosis".
My sister/brother-in-law have a copy of "Gödel, Escher, Bach" and I borrowed
it while I was visiting.
--
Bob
Rian
005b01bf947b$09226300$81f3e4ce@rkhenry...
> The exhibit was as I hoped: that you really can see more from the
original
> reproductions (after all they're all reproductions, that's the point)
than
> from a JPG off the internet or a single-color halftoned reproduction
in a
> book. Well, especially so for a 23-foot long print like
"Metamorphosis".
>
smaller.
Rian
Rian
> Does that say
> anything about me? That I have absolutely no artistic instincts?
Probably.
> Having a rather mechanical, geometric view of the world may make me
soulless
> but I guess I'll just have to accept that.
>
in constructivism, That means metered out to the millimetre, All
geometrics here, lots of op-art. I love it when I get dizzy looking at a
picture (they tell me it is a hint of epileptics, like my getting sick
at strobo lights or sunny lanes with trees at hihj speeds).
Rian
dennis curtis
painting. Got to a point where the curators wouldn't let him into his
own shows!! True! He would bring his paint box and "touch up"
incessantly.
All of his exhibitions were full of wet paintings. Turner..an amusing
old fart, but his sense of light was second to none except for a few
renaissance painters,like Veronese, or Andrea Del Sarto.--dc
Catharine Honeyman wrote:
>
> CRxx wrote:
>
> > What does being an artist add to your liking of
> > artists like Paul Klee, who did some nice upside down bluebirds.
>
> Well, I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. And what I like
> is Klimt and Hopper. Ooooo, I love Hopper. Also Turner.
>
> Aloha,
> Catharine
>
> --
> ..
dennis curtis
likes
what one likes. I think the important thing is to know WHY you like or
dislike a given thing and you explained yourself well. I cannot abide
Mahler. I won't put up with Jackson Pollack. I think Fitzgerald is
too effete for me. Escher was clever. Andrea del Sarto was genius.-dc
"R. K. Henry" wrote:
>
> Catharine,
>
> > CRxx wrote:
> >
> > > What does being an artist add to your liking of
> > > artists like Paul Klee, who did some nice upside down bluebirds.
> >
> > Well, I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. And what I
> like
> > is Klimt and Hopper. Ooooo, I love Hopper. Also Turner.
>
> I notice that Hopper is another artist who has been emulated frequently. I
> saw a television ad starring Bill Cosby in which he played a detective
> explaining to a young woman the advantages of getting "Turner Classic
> Movies" from your cable or satellite provider. The action took place in a
> cafe very reminiscent of "Nighthawks."
>
> Klee and Klimt, I don't know. I rather like sharp, precise, lines depicting
> geometric perfection--somewhat like Escher--even if Escher's precise lines
> are somewhat oddly placed at times. That what I like about photography,
> clean, sharp lines. If things are out-of-focus there's a reason for it and
> you can use that to good purpose. And the smooth, even tonalities. (That's
> one reason I'm fascinated by airbrush.) If you want to distort perspective
> the view camera swings will take care of most things for you. Does that say
> anything about me? That I have absolutely no artistic instincts? Probably.
> Having a rather mechanical, geometric view of the world may make me soulless
> but I guess I'll just have to accept that.
>
dennis curtis
beat the band. --dc
Catharine Honeyman wrote:
>
> R. K. Henry wrote:
>
> > I notice that Hopper is another artist who has been emulated frequently.
>
> He is. While I love the pop culture aspects of "Nighthawks," I am fonder
> of his less-well-known paintings. I love the wistfulness he gets in each
> work. There are many scenes in "Pennies from Heaven," one of my
> best-beloved movies, which echo his work.
>
> Of course, I also have a shameful love for Maxfield Parrish and a lot of
> the Pre-Raphaelite painters.
>
> Aloha,
> Catharine
>
> --
> ..
dennis curtis
invented it. Wonderful!--dc
Rian wrote:
>
> R. K. Henry <rkh...@preferred.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
> 005901bf947b$06f0dd00$81f3e4ce@rkhenry...
> > Does that say
> > anything about me? That I have absolutely no artistic instincts?
> Probably.
> > Having a rather mechanical, geometric view of the world may make me
> soulless
> > but I guess I'll just have to accept that.
> >
CRxx
feeling i got. I could not place it with the view you have given us on you
until so far, so i was a bit suprised, and i didn't trust my own judgement
on this entitrely.
of course you like other artists as well. Personally i like weird
representations of reality such as Magritte, Dali or Willink. The last one
is dutch, i don't know whether you know him, but he painted landscapes which
are exaggerated in realism, combined with unrealistic setting and weird
light.
Christine!
PSmith9626
I found kandinsky's books useful in my early communications with my
"unconscious" in therapy. He has found much about the visual language of the
unconscious.
best
penny
>Kandinsky
>Message-id: <38D977B0...@gte.net>
PSmith9626
Sounds like I would have enjoyed the
exhibit.
best
penny
>Message-id: <005b01bf947b$09226300$81f3e4ce@rkhenry>
Maybe , I should publish a math guide to Escher?
Rian
Rian
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CRxx <xxr...@multiweb.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
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Rian
> Rian-- You like constructivism? look up Malevich, the Russian who
> invented it. Wonderful!--dc
>
CRxx
which would do the trick, i think.
Christine!
PSmith9626 heeft geschreven in bericht
<20000323062132...@ng-bj1.aol.com>...
dennis curtis
I really enjoy unconventional art. Hercules Seghers was
Rembrandt's teacher, who etched the most bizzare lanscapes I've
ever seen. The artist during the Renaissance who painted portraits
using vegetables, insane art,"frame front" paintings, Trompe d'oeil
(sp?), Gorky(not the writer),too much to list here. Dali did some of
the most brilliant renditions of illusions ever painted. Surrealism is
among my persued subjects. Also Dadaism, Merxism, Junk art, so called
primitive art(always wanted to do something with black and white
shoe polish on cardboard!), Spainish and French funk art,(Tapies and
Tingley), and DGMS!!!( Don't get me started!)
I think there is a time when an idea lifts itself by it's own
wings
out of the context of age, place and people. Good to know that the
process exists, sad to know that it's more often than not, accidental
and as a result, not investigated. If that process of idea transfer
has
been researched, I would be curious about knowing the info.
Elitism might be a good topic for another thread. I see nothing
wrong with being an elitist, as long as you can deliver. Otherwise,
it's mere braggidocio and open to ridicule. There is no worse insult
than being called an amateur. No arrogance at all as long as you
supply the goods.
"A master is merely one who started before you did."--Dancing Wu-Li
Masters.--dc
dennis curtis
.....dc
CRxx
dennis curtis heeft geschreven in bericht <38DAC7BD...@gte.net>...
> CRxx-----
> I really enjoy unconventional art. Hercules Seghers was
>Rembrandt's teacher, who etched the most bizzare lanscapes I've
>ever seen.
Funny i don't know him. What you say reminds me very much of Jeroen Bosch or
Hieronymus Bosch (allway mix them up).
And about elitism. In itself it is okay to be part of an elite, but to
naturally conclude opinions are better because the owner of the opinion is
part of an elite does not seem very smart to me, and is elitism IMO.
Perheps our perspectives of what elitism is differ.
Christine!
Rian
>
>
> Funny i don't know him. What you say reminds me very much of Jeroen
Bosch or
> Hieronymus Bosch (allway mix them up).
>
CRxx
Rian heeft geschreven in bericht
There were at least two of them. If Hieronymus is not Jeroen, there are
three.
Christine!
>
Rian
If you find it, you might look me up, and my father.
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CRxx <xxr...@multiweb.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
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dennis curtis
were bizzare for the way they were drawn, rather than for what was in
them. They were accurate 'scapes, but very dense.
One can be an elitist by birth, one can be an elitist through hard
work. I agree with you on the opinion part. Is it safe to say that
an elitist is another name for an expert? Even there, opinions are
just that , but they have the experience and tend to have more
informed opinions. Just because they are elitist in a field is no
reason not to listen to them. To dismiss an elitist because they are
elitist is not a good idea. I mean the elitists who made it from
their own efforts, not the pride of birth type. This is getting into
elitism and maybe the title should be changed.--dc
CRxx wrote:
>
> dennis curtis heeft geschreven in bericht <38DAC7BD...@gte.net>...
> > CRxx-----
> > I really enjoy unconventional art. Hercules Seghers was
> >Rembrandt's teacher, who etched the most bizzare lanscapes I've
> >ever seen.
>
> Funny i don't know him. What you say reminds me very much of Jeroen Bosch or
> Hieronymus Bosch (allway mix them up).
>
CRxx
dennis curtis heeft geschreven in bericht <38DC0B45...@gte.net>...
> CRxx--Touche. I have never heard of Jeroen Bosch. Seghers landscapes
>were bizzare for the way they were drawn, rather than for what was in
>them. They were accurate 'scapes, but very dense.
> One can be an elitist by birth, one can be an elitist through hard
>work. I agree with you on the opinion part.
Sometimes i do miss terribly, but still i am allways firing away. Who cares?
Is it safe to say that
>an elitist is another name for an expert?
No absolutely not. Elitism is more or less equivalent to racism. It places a
higher value on elite, opposed to the common people. Something which can be
found in Mensa, but absolutely nowhere near the amount some people think it
is. Usually it are the not really smart who are elitists.
Experts are people who have expertece (help me out here...) People who use
the fact that they are experts to make an argument are elitist as well, but
most of the times experts can find better arguments.
Even there, opinions are
>just that , but they have the experience and tend to have more
>informed opinions. Just because they are elitist in a field is no
>reason not to listen to them. To dismiss an elitist because they are
>elitist is not a good idea. I mean the elitists who made it from
>their own efforts, not the pride of birth type. This is getting into
>elitism and maybe the title should be changed.--dc
So to dismiss an elitist because he is an elitist does not sound too silly
to me ;-)
Christine!
dennis curtis
thread title. Is a tool and die machinist an elitist because she
can find work anywhere in the world at a moment's notice? I think so.
You don't? A PHD in any field is not a member of an elite group? I
am having a bit of trouble, not a lot, getting a handle on your
thrust of arguement.
On the contrary, in my view and sitting at the feet of masters
in their fields, an elitist is one who will more often than not
,give a hand up, if only she is asked. I do not wanna know from
those who dont know diddley. Learn from the learned and that is an
elitist pursuit. I do NOT see elitism equivalent to racism. You
will have to convince me on that point. --best--dc
winter
its a shame that the word elitist has come to be used to mean what it
means, for its root,the word elite, is old, it has good place and it suffers
for the association.
if those who began its use to describe racial superiority did so to name
their views, then the word 'elite' has suffer a reverse fortune fo the word
gothic which, i am told, started as a perjorative for gothic architechure.
in my view, any of the elite in an accomplishment who see their status as
reason for thinking themselves generally better only show the limited
nature of their accomplishment, and their misaprehension should not
detract from the word or its meaning.
winter
Rian
on people who are not members.
Race is a group. Racists are members of such a group that look down on
people who are not members of said group!
Now do you see the comparison?
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dennis curtis <curt...@gte.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
38DC2316...@gte.net...
> CRxx- Agreed with the last sentence. Next post,im gonna change teh
> thread title. Is a tool and die machinist an elitist because she
> can find work anywhere in the world at a moment's notice? I think so.
> You don't? A PHD in any field is not a member of an elite group? I
> am having a bit of trouble, not a lot, getting a handle on your
> thrust of arguement.
> On the contrary, in my view and sitting at the feet of masters
> in their fields, an elitist is one who will more often than not
> ,give a hand up, if only she is asked. I do not wanna know from
> those who dont know diddley. Learn from the learned and that is an
> elitist pursuit. I do NOT see elitism equivalent to racism. You
> will have to convince me on that point. --best--dc
>
>
CRxx
winter heeft geschreven in bericht <8bh8as$k...@chicago.us.mensa.org>...
>its a shame that the word elitist has come to be used to mean what it
>means, for its root,the word elite, is old, it has good place and it
suffers
>for the association.
Elite is no problem, it is just that people who are not elite, think people
who are, are elitist as well, which is only sometimes true. I think it is a
major basis to all kinds of inequality in societies and between societies.
>
>if those who began its use to describe racial superiority did so to name
>their views, then the word 'elite' has suffer a reverse fortune fo the word
>gothic which, i am told, started as a perjorative for gothic architechure.
>
>in my view, any of the elite in an accomplishment who see their status as
>reason for thinking themselves generally better only show the limited
>nature of their accomplishment, and their misaprehension should not
>detract from the word or its meaning.
Being of a certain race, does not automatically make one a racist, just like
being elite, does not make one an elitist. I do not think the word elite
itself has suffered very much. I just think it is very important to be aware
of elitism, and the reality and lack of reality behind it.
If i can make it, everybody should be able to make it, so people who don't
are simply not doing it good enough. Tough luck! It is a bit like the
hinu-system of casts. A paria is a paria because of whatever, and will
allways be a paria.
The hindu-system is very extreme, but there are no systems where there
really is a classless system.
I have a nicely deviant IQ, which is something i did not really earn or
created or whatever. I have no reason to be proud of my IQ. That same
reasoning also goes for lots of other traits and achievements as well (your
achievements are your achievements, and you can be proud of them, but it
remains a thing to realize an achievement which is much lower rated, may
actually for the person that made that achievement much more of an
achievement, simply because the possibilities that person has to achieve
this were far more limited.
People do not get anywhere if they are lazy bums, but why are they
considered to be lazy bums? And if they are lazy bums, how come they are
lazy bums? It is very easy to pass judgement on other people, but in all
fairness, most judgements are based on presumptions which are from the
perspective of the person who judges, and not from the perspective of the
person who is judged. When people fail to realze this, all kinds of forms of
discrimination enter the equation.
Christine!
PSmith9626
Go to a university library and look at the covers of vol iv and vol v of
: Differential
Geometry by Michael Spivak.
The original ( unpirated ) version by Publish or Perish press has a
differetial geometers version of a Bosch landscape spreade over four
panels.Every item is from geometry and it is utterly unearthly.
Enjoy
penny
Aradia
> Being of a certain race, does not automatically make one a racist, just like
> being elite, does not make one an elitist. I do not think the word elite
> itself has suffered very much. I just think it is very important to be aware
> of elitism, and the reality and lack of reality behind it.
OTOH, I've never considered myself elite (possibly out of my own sense of
humility), but I do consider myself elitist when it comes to computers
(ok, how can one be humble and elitist? Hmmmm).
> If i can make it, everybody should be able to make it, so people who don't
> are simply not doing it good enough. Tough luck! It is a bit like the
> hinu-system of casts. A paria is a paria because of whatever, and will
> allways be a paria.
In my case, it's: stupid people shouldn't be allowed to use computers. If
they don't want to bother learning to use the damn things, tough luck.
> The hindu-system is very extreme, but there are no systems where there
> really is a classless system.
Buddhism, for the most part. There are different labels for certain stages
(bhikkus, stream-enterers, et cetera), but none of which places any
greater worth or importance on the person, only to signify where they are
in their life (monk, less than four rebirths from enlightenment, et
cetera). Perhaps because we (theravadins in any case) believe the Buddha
to be a mortal no more special (elite? ;) than anyone else.
> I have a nicely deviant IQ, which is something i did not really earn or
> created or whatever. I have no reason to be proud of my IQ. That same
> reasoning also goes for lots of other traits and achievements as well (your
> achievements are your achievements, and you can be proud of them, but it
> remains a thing to realize an achievement which is much lower rated, may
> actually for the person that made that achievement much more of an
> achievement, simply because the possibilities that person has to achieve
> this were far more limited.
All that use of "achieve" has made my mind go numb. Next paragraph. =)
> People do not get anywhere if they are lazy bums, but why are they
> considered to be lazy bums? And if they are lazy bums, how come they are
> lazy bums? It is very easy to pass judgement on other people, but in all
> fairness, most judgements are based on presumptions which are from the
> perspective of the person who judges, and not from the perspective of the
> person who is judged. When people fail to realze this, all kinds of forms of
> discrimination enter the equation.
Hey, look at that skinhead wearing all the black leather! I'm definitely
not new to prejudice. (Ooo...and I'm freshly shaved this
morning...teehee! =)
-- Sean...
Another skinhead for world peace
(just doesn't sound as cool without the picture of Gandhi - damn)
#!/usr/bin/perl
$j=\$j;{$_=unpack(P25,pack(L,$j));/Just Another Perl Hacker/?print:$j++&&redo}
PSmith9626
Penny belongs to the race--homo
mathematicus which makes her elitist.
She knows her race is superior to the race of planeria worms.
Gor
I am elitist--- I am the patron god of elitism.
>Being of a certain race, does not automatically make one a racist, just like
>> being elite, does not make one an elitist.
It does if you are arousian.