my struggle
Jade Williams
children. I'm 26 -so maybe I'm in the wrong newsgroup - but I still have
difficulties with socialization and the effect its had on my life and
abilities has been devestating. The fact that I have been able to mask
these difficulties extremely well has set me back even further, to the point
now that I under achieve and I can't seem to do anything about it. I have
some people around me at the moment that (I think) are trying to help me but
still something holds me back. If anyone can understand my situation and
has some advice I'm all ears.
Jade
Pedro Rodrigues
Anything about early days? Examples of nowadays hard times? When did you or
anyone else assume you were were having problems due to 'gifted children'
fact? Well, that kind of things, you know, some background.
What do you think of yourself, for instance?
Of course if you don't feel confortable expressing dsome feelings here, just
enter on private message.
Pedro Rodrigues
"Jade Williams" <jad...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
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Ray L
news:rEKy8.50475$uR5.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Writing is a form of socialization, and your language is flawless,
so you've got that part covered. Are you also good at talking with
people on the phone?
What about non-verbal communication? Have you studied
body language?
What kinds of situations give you trouble?
RoyB
"Jade Williams" <jad...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
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internal dialogue. How do YOU assess yourself? How do you speak to yourself
concerning daily successes or failures?
I know that for years my own internal dialogue contained the words "stupid"
and "dumbass". Once I was tested and was accepted for membership, it was as
if the external validation of what I was hoping was true about myself moved
me away from that negative dialogue, and I became more tolerant and
forgiving of myself and others.
Roy
T. Scott Frick
Just in case anyone is thinking Roy is the only smart person in the world
who grew up with doubts about his intelligence, I'll second what he says. I
only took the Mensa test because I wanted to be able to compare myself to my
son. I needed a benchmark to go from. From my readings on gifted children
(Clark, Silverman, Webb, etc...) it was clear to me that he was gifted.
But, not me, I had never been identified when I was in school. So, even
though I always sort of, half way, kind of, suspected I was smart, there was
no proof. Without the proof there is conflict. And even though no one but
my closest family knows about my membership (let's face it, even this
newsgroup is fairly anonymous), it was like the great weight lifted. Now
all I am left with is what to do with all of the potential. You gotta do
something with all that voltage, right?
Concerning Jade's struggle with under achievement, I've been there. The
condensed version. Smart kid with inner doubts in a stupid school system
that sorts children by apparent ability. The Gruppenfurher selects smart
kid for classes with average kids. Kid underachieves to survive. I can
still remember entering third grade wondering if that would be the year we
would be able to discuss something. What a vacuum school was. End of
school story.
The after school special. After school (high school, that is) smart kid
can't help himself. Reads everything of interest at local college library.
Yes, lots of college libraries let non-students borrow books. Kid spends a
few years reading and teaching himself everything the school couldn't or
wouldn't. This is the time of my life I am proudest of. Setting my own
learning goals and following my own nose for teachers, books that is, made
up for a lot of the doubts I had previously had about myself.
I don't know what else to say right now. This seems like an important
thread and I'd hate to see it die.
SW
"RoyB" <bias...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
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Wow I too had a simialr experience but even weirder . Since I recently
joined Mensa I have been motivated to learn a lot of what I experienced
growing up to the ripe age of 51. I also recently read Gifted Grownups: The
Mixed Blessings of Extraordinary Potential by Marylou Kelly Streznewski
which explained a lot to me about why I feel and think the way I do.
Listen to my story and then tell me if it sounds familiar. I am 51, just
joined Mensa a few months ago despite knowing that I had a very high IQ
since High School. I am a child of uneducated socio-economically
disadvantaged parents. In my childhood environment, a steady job regardless
of how mindless or underpaid it was, was a mark of success. I grew up
thinking that I was not good enough for college or the highly paid corporate
jobs. Luckily for me, my desire for material goods was enough drive to make
me seek out such employment regardless of my feelings.
I entered a junior college despite being accepted at West Point, MIT and a
few other good colleges. I quit college after one year because I had an A+
average. Fearing that I was just luckily since I found the coursework so
easy I thought it best to quit while I was still ahead. Surely the work
would get harder the next year and I would fail.
For the next 20 years I held many jobs, averaging 2-3 years per job. These
were prestigious jobs paying much more than I ever hoped to make. I told
myself that I had a knack at interviewing so I could get hired for any job I
wanted. It had nothing to do with my job abilities but rather my skill at
manipulating others to make them believe that I was the best person for the
job. It was my skill at knowing how to dress for the interview and how to
conduct myself. This is what made me succeed.
The same pattern emerged job after job. I would get hired, rise to the top
and then quit in 2-3 years before they found out I was a fraud and inept. My
theory was that staying at any job for 2 years was easy regardless of your
skills. According to my theory the first year was spent learning the job and
the second year you were expected to produce and by the third year they
would decide if you measured up to the job. My strategy was to coast along
and then find a new job in year 2 or 3. I did this for 20 years despite
receiving industry and worldwide recognition as an expert in my field. Due
to this behavior I had no children (due to constant relocations which were
not conducive to starting a family) and moved 11 times.
I thought I was clever, as I always managed to get a new job in my allotted
time and at a higher salary no less. This I thought was my "gift".
Throughout this time I had no long term friendships. The people I was in
contact with were not interested in the same things as me and seemed to not
think as logically as me. I also never stayed in one place long enough to
develop long term friendships. My wife was my best friend and I hers. This
worked for us; better for me than her as I later found out. This got me
through to age 40. Socially I discovered that I did not need 'friends'. I
had enough interests to keep me busy. I also had been able to specialize in
a field that allowed me to work on my own without a staff or department to
run. Some of that time was working as a consultant. It was perfect for me.
High pay and no one but myself to deal with as no one did anything good
enough for my standards anyway. With the help of Xanax and other
perscription drugs I was able to attend social events and give speeches and
seminars. To me it was all a game to be played and I succeeded only because
I was good at the "game".
At this time I was living in a major city where I was well known in the
industry from TV appearances and the lecture circuit. This made lots of
demands on me socially. I needed to join clubs and glad hand people and this
made me anxious and uncomfortable. After all, who was I to think I could
talk as equals with chairmen of Fortune 500 companies, mayors and others in
high positions. My parents did not even recognize the names of people I
knew. I was smoozing in a world so different from the one I came from.
I got scared as I was getting too well known and more and more people were
believing in me. Time to bail out before I was discovered as a fraud. This
time it would be harder as I now had a solid national reputation and could
not easily hide. The answer was to switch careers. My hobby and first love
has always been computers so I took a job in that field in a different city
where I am not known. As usual, I started at a mid management position and
rose to CIO in a few years. It has been ten years now and despite almost
bailing out every year, I have stayed put primarily because I work alone, no
one understands what I do and even if I screw up, no one will ever know it.
Here I was now at age 51 and still thinking I was a fraud despite constant
validation from every employer and two subsequent IQ tests given as a
prerequisite to employment. I attributed all of my success to being adept at
conning people into thinking I know more than I do. After all, I had to be
scamming them as I always found the work to be easy without much effort
compared to the long hours worked by my co-workers.
This was my life. I went through my entire life thinking I was a street
smart con artist which accounted for my great and highly profitable jobs. It
was not until two months ago when I was accepted into Mensa did I finally
accept my intelligence as the source of my success. Only then did I start
reading about the special problems of the gifted. I saw myself in the
stories told by others. I now understand my feelings and sources of
frustration. I finally accepted that I was smart and I was different than
the majority of the rest of the world. I had always accepted the fact that
everyone thought the same and if I found things a little easier it was
because I had a better memory than most people.
I finally understood why I lived below my means for 30 years as everytime I
showed my abilities or fruits of my efforts I was told by my parents that I
thought I was better than everyone else. In my family it was not seemly to
show your wealth. Call it a crazy view of the world or just plain insane but
where I was raised you did not show your wealth. If you did it was like
telling everyone that you were better than them. You were expected to dress
poorly and to have the same house and car as everyone else. Your position
and wealth were supposed to be known only through whispers and rumors. I
finally figured out it had to do with my parents growing up in the great
depression and living in the slums where you had to hide the fact that you
had any money, first to remove yourself as a target for thieves and secondly
so as not to make the others there feel bad by displaying your wealth.
Call me crazy but joining Mensa opened my eyes in many ways. I know that
Mensa is not all that but when I was growing up it meant something to belong
to Mensa. I remember seeing people on TV who were geniuses and being told
that they belonged to Mensa. I never thought I could join. Smart, maybe, but
those very smart people were Mensa not just smarter than the average bear.
Only once 20 years ago did I investigate Mensa and then backed off since I
did not think that I could possibly score high enough to get in.
Another thing is that for some reason for all these years no one ever told
me my IQ. I was told it was higher than average and in the top 1% but was
never given a number. As silly as this sounds I never paid much attention to
it. It was not something I was raised to value. My parents would have been
happier to see me in a secure government job. To them I was not succeeding
in life since I had to change jobs so often. They constantly were offering
me money even though I was making twice what my father was making since I
was 25.
To me, seeing my score and joining Mensa plus reading the above referenced
book and other information gleaned from the net put everything in
perspective for me. I now have bought my dream house, moved to the suburbs
and feel confident in my job skills. I finally realize that I found work
easy because of my intelligence and ability to learn easily not because I
was able to just learn a little and make it look like I was a genius. I also
now buy expensive clothes and show the fruits of my success. I no longer
feel embarrassed to shine a little bit and think that I am smart. I went a
little overboard for a few weeks there when I finally came to the acceptance
of my intelligence but am now back to normal. I think it was normal to want
to shout it to the hills after suppressing it for so long. Basically I gave
myself a pat on the back since no one else I know did.
This is my story and hopefully some of you can learn from it and avoid my
mistakes. To the original poster I hope that you can learn from this. I
would also suggest seeing a doctor as you may have a social anxiety or
depression problem as I finally found out I have this year. Do not wait as I
did. Do something. If you have a high IQ you are at least equipped to
succeed at what you try. For me, I got around the problem of self doubt
about being able to do the job by inventing my little 2 year theory. I ended
up developing my people handling skills to explain why I was succeeding. An
interesting side note is that in my last professional personality evaluation
I was said to be Machiavellian in personality from all the years spent in
developing skills to make people want to hire me.
For me when I look back at my jobs, most of them involved working alone
which avoids the socialization issues. I know many smart people who work
from home in the IT field as consultants thereby minimizing contact with the
outside world. Not healty maybe but workable. I also learned that by knowing
what you are doing thoroughly it builds confidence. Work on the areas that
you feel uncomfortable in. I would always put myself in uncomfortable (but
safe) situations to gain the skills I needed to get through life. I still
have some problems but over the years I have conquered most of my fears. I
can now walk into a room and take charge and speak before a group of any
people in the world. For me the changes started in my late twenties and I
started feeling more like an adult than a teen. For you it may be the same.
I also accepted the help from a few mentors who even took me to stores to
buy suits for me and explain how to act. I took there advice even though at
times I thought it was stupid. If you can not get yourself to do even this
please seek out professional help.
Jade Williams
words" I wasn't prepared to accept the fact that I was stupid because I knew
I wasn't. My interaction through dialogue with others has been what has let
me down. I don't really know why. Perhaps I don't explain myself very well
to them but - I make a statement - say and perhaps I'm to brief - because
I'm usually bombarded with advice or a lecture etc about what to my mind has
been made quite obvious by my simple statement. having dealt with, what I
consider to be, that kind of condescention since I can remember I have
developed a kind of timidity that I guess I have internalised - to the
extent that I often say to myself "why bother" and now I guess I fear trying
because lack of comprehension/understanding leads to failure. A person can
only maintain self assurance in the face of that kind of regular negative
reeinforcement for so long before they begin to believe or in my case "opt
out".
Written communication is my most sure form of communication these days but
I'ts so isolated, and quite frankly apart from this I'm still only
dialoguing with myself. Where do I seek help? It means a great deal to me
to hear your story, SW. You seem to have been braver than me in your
dealing with these things - you hung in there a lot longer than I did - but
never have I identified with another story as I have with yours.
Jade
"SW" <S...@nowhere.come> wrote in message
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Jade Williams
"SW" <S...@nowhere.come> wrote in message
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>
SW
social group so you will have lots of opportunities to meet and talk with
other gifted adults. You may also want to see a Psychologist as you may have
social anxiety disease. I have General Anxiety Disease and am being treated
for it. There is no shame in it. You could also be depressed which is caused
by a chemical imbalance in your brain and easily treated. Hard to say
without any details about you and your life.
For me I just thrust myself into situations that I was uncomfortable with,
took some strong anti-anxiety pills and just did it. Lo and behold nothing
bad happened and in fact, much good happened. If you are in an HMO seek out
professional mental help or start with your general MD as I did. Also have
hope as I changed for the better when I hit 30. Something psychological
about that age for me but it is when I move far from home and resolved not
to let my family interfere or control my life. I learned to say no if I did
not feel like doing something and became a 'selfish bastard' but I felt
better. I also came to the realization that other people could only make me
feel guilty or bad if I let them. I resolved to not let other's opinions
influence my feelings or moods. I did all this through internal dialogue and
by reading a few good books at the time.
When it comes down to it, YOU have to do something. Nothing anyone else does
will change your life. See a doc and explain your problems. That is a good
first step and is painless. You also need to learn to cope and work around
your problems and again a good therapist can help. Today for example I made
a mistake and the first thoughts that went through my mind was to quit and
get a new job since I made one mistake. My god, I am the second highest
person in my company and I am still thinking like this. The self doubt
passed in a few minutes though but in the past I would be awake all night
playing it over in my mind. It can get better but you need to take the first
steps.
There are also a few things I have learned in my lifetime that see me
through rough times. One is that we are all insignificant and 50 years or so
after we die, no one will really remember us or what we did so do not stress
over what you do as it will all be forgotten in time or seem meaningless in
the future anyways. Things are only important because we make them so. This
is like the HS student getting all upset about wearing the wrong clothes or
something like that. It seems so important at the time but it really is not.
To me I win at life if my good times outnumber my bad times so I usually try
to choose things that will enable me to have a good time/feel good but not
at the expense of other people.
I also learned that it is very difficult to make friends as an adult. Most
of the other adults you run across have childhood friends already. It is
difficult but not impossible as you can run across others like you but you
have to put yourself out there so you can meet them and be prepared to be
shrugged off by most. There was a point in my life when I said I need to
make friends again. I started inviting co workers, neighbors and anyone else
I could find over. Finally we clicked with the friend of a neighbor and a
coworker of my wife. We are still friends with the coworker for over 20
years despite moving several times. The point is that you have to get off
you duff and do something. This is what I realized and this is what helped
me. I had to help myself. I got anxious around new people so my Doc helped
in that area. If you want to do this you can. I also have problem making new
friends because I do not like to comprimise. If I want to do something I do
it and do not want to beg others to go with me. I am lucky because the
friends I have made are all like me. We can go months without seeing or
calling each other and then see each other for a week straight with no hard
feelings about why we have not called. There is also no problem if we do not
want to do what the other wants to do. I am blessed with these two set of
friends but we are so alike in temperments and ideas.
The last and most important thing I have learned is that all things pass.
Through years of ups and downs I realized that everything works itself out.
I think of the times I could not sleep or had my stomach in knots but now
those problems seem trivial and had no importance to anything. When I look
back on my life I can laugh at the things I lost sleep about or thought were
very important at the time. They weren't. Jobs come and go as do friends. I
found that I do not need friends though a have a select few. There was a
time when I would be devastated and depressed if my company was doing bad
and might go under but I lived through many such occurrences and even two
layoffs and I am still alive and actually doing better. At the time it was
the end of my world but if you have a good head on your shoulders you will
rebound easily. I also realized that anyone I know that got layed off did
not end up homeless. They all managed to get other jobs and are doing just
fine. In other words, no not worry too much.
Good luck on your voyage.
"Jade Williams" <jad...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
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Jade Williams
Jade
"SW" <S...@nowhere.come> wrote in message