Spitfire Audio Kontakt Libraries

[Gerald Weiß]

MyQuestions:

DO you find Kontakt easier/harder to use than Hallion Sonic ?

Would Kontakt slow down my Cubase (because too many plugins ?

Do they both (more-a-less) cover similar types of sounds ?

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You have to understand that Steinberg works closely with Yamaha. That is why Halion is like having Yamaha Motif synth at your disposal. Motif was used by Steve Wonder in his life gigs. Motif has sounds from DX7. There are many advantages of having Halion as a free plugin. Yes Halion comes free with your stock Cubase installation. Free. There are good and bad libraries in both Halion and Kontakt. Iconica Strings for Halion are amazing. Way better than Session Strings from NI. Session Guitars for Kontakt are amazing and there is nothing like that for Halion. There are way more third party libraries for Kontakt than Halion. Both platforms have their pros and cons. I have both

I am curious about this, because I have had nothing but problems with Kontakt 7 since going Mac M1.... Not to badmouth NI, but they are far and away the worst when it comes to catching up with Silicon...... I still have libraries that are not compatible- 2 1/2 years later!

If in native mode, make sure all plugins in the project are compatible with Apple silicon and OS Ventura (if you're on the new Mac) but also check the CPU on the project with no plugins and just Kontakt 7.

No worries. You're in native mode by default. To enable Rosetta you get info (cmd + I) on the Logic Pro app icon and tick 'Open using Rosetta'. I have the same preload setting on my Kontakt 7. I've noticed some libraries are more CPU hungry and will give me similar random spikes to yours, e.g. Straylight. I think most Spitfire libraries should be compatible with Apple silicon. On their website only two libraries are incompatible. But I would check the CPU performance with other Spitfire libraries, or similar libraries, and see if the issue still persists. It's possible that it's specific to Kepler (which might be quite CPU hungry). If so then maybe contact Spitfire support to check if it is supported. It's a shame to think that Mac Silicon can be such as hassle and be quite underwhelming in scenarios like this. I miss the ease of using my iMac Pro and never seeing messages like 'An Audio Unit Plug-in reported a problem'. But even though things have settled a bit, it's still something of a transitional phase and we are where we are.

This is something you need to do, but I don't think it will resolve your CPU spike problem. I'm on a 20-core M1 Ultra Mac Studio with 128 GB of RAM and I'm using the internal drive (4TB). I've given disk full access, have tried multiple audio buffer, multithread, process buffer and Kontakt 7 settings (multiprocessor support off and also on & different preload sizes). Also tried this with internal audio rather than my interface but I'm still getting single thread CPU spikes like yours on certain larger instruments, e.g. Lores. All this was tested in a Logic project with no third party plugins except Kontakt 7 and the same settings as you.

Try no multiprocessor support in Kontakt and test.

Experiment with 2 or 4 cores and see how things go.

As a tip, you "theoretically" can unload the Kontakt plug in the channel strip after changing multi-processor options, then reload it in the channel strip.

In practice, this doesn't work - despite NI suggesting it does.

There "appears" to be some sort of communication/reporting between Logic/Kontakt re: multicore....so shut down/restart Logic after each Kontakt multiprocessor change.....and test.

In the channel strip, choose "No Plug-in" to unload it.

As mentioned, this isn't enough - so you need to make the change in Kontakt's prefs (the AU version in Logic, not the standalone version of Kontakt).

Once done, exit Logic, then re-insert Kontakt in a channel strip (or several) and test.

If running Logic in Apple Silicon ("native") mode, rather than Rosetta, plug-ins run in their own process "outside" of Logic.

I think that what may be happening is that Kontakt/Logic are competing for (CPU core) resources - potentially resulting in the issues you're having.

By setting a null (Off) or 2/4 core limit in Kontakt, both Logic/Kontakt won't step on each other's metaphorical toes.

There'll be a balance between them that works best for your libraries/needs.

Leave Logic on "Auto" for Processing Threads.

The other option to test is to run Logic in Rosetta mode. In this case, plug-ins run within a thread that is under Logic's control (note this is being simplistic, but used for clarity) - so Logic is responsible for the way CPU core/resource allocation works for plug-ins/the AU thread(s).

They're the first company I've ever liked any orchestral samples from aside from VSL. The woodwinds blend better than any other library, imo. The strings have a few things I like more, like being a little less lifeless. Although, depending on the assumed 'divisi string library' we'll see from VSL... this may not be an issue if it's divisi enough to create a very fluid performance. Although, most things I like about VSL more for strings, I just found a few things I liked about spitfire also that promt this consideration. The spitfire trumpet demo had a few things I really liked a lot, but with a couple I thought VSL was better on. Mostly it was an even match, with benefits in both.

Either way, I've considered getting Albion (as I in NO WAY could afford a $19k brass library, a price that their demo's haven't quite lived up to). With not having a Violin II from VSL, and with my liking the sound from Spitfire as a 'VSL gap filler', I think that they'd make a great adition to my VSL collection (something I've yet to say about anyone else). But, the limitiations of 'ensemble only' really bother me in Albion. Anyone own it and have used it with VSL? Any thoughts on the ensemble restriction in use with VSL samples also? Any thoughts at all?

I'm not a fan of wet samples usually, but I'd rather have entirely wet with a good room or entirely dry. I like spitfire as an addition in that sense, but not as a replacement library by any means. I should have also asked what people think VSL does better and spitfire does better. No library has 100 perfect everything so I imagine someone on here has to like a few things on both sides.

Spitfire's trumpet has much louder releases than VSL. This can add a very human sound to the performance and it can be unwanted also. I wish this was available as a modifable option (Either a fader or another option anyway).

My woodwinds comment- I like VSL woodwinds in every way. I only thought that the blend had a far more natural blend in spitfire's demo's than anything I've been able to accomplish. I like that blend a lot. But otherwise, I like VSL woodwinds far more.

I love their percussion. I've never been a big fan of VSL's percussion. I don't have the full perc library at my disposal, but from demo's only... there are benefits on both sides it seems. I think I'd prefer to own both in the end, rather than one over the other.

From information in other forums, if I understand things correctly (I could be wrong), first, there are a very limited number of licenses for Spitfire, and when they are gone, they are gone, and second, one of the requirements for purchasing the libraries is that you will not use them in commercial releases, but only for mock-ups. The use of live musicians for the final product is required. Spitfire is specifically aimed at top tier professional (primarily film) composers.

The reason why I think this is worth discussing though, is that there are many things VSL users may desire from VSL's future products. VSL's legato interim patches are limited by 1. Why not more? I have had instances where I hear a subtle machine gun effect because of quickly going back over the same notes, or a kind of fanfaring c g, c g. There are small things that matter. I don't know that Spitfire is any different. But I do know that I liked the trumpet release samples and other things I wish I either had with VSL, or at least had the option of choosing with VSL.

From information in other forums, if I understand things correctly (I could be wrong), first, there are a very limited number of licenses for Spitfire, and when they are gone, they are gone, and second, one of the requirements for purchasing the libraries is that you will not use them in commercial releases, but only for mock-ups.

Hmmm. I don't know, if I'm going to drop 19 grand on a sample library I think I have the right to use them however I darn well please. I can't stand arrogance in any company let alone a sample library. What reason do they have to limit the use of their product to mock ups. I wonder how their customer support is.

That aside, as much as I adore VSL I think a composer should have other options on hand. If you use VSL all the time in every project you ever work on your music will develope a homogenous sound to it. It's like hiring the same trumpet player over and over on all of your projects. You may really like that trumpet player but it's nice to have some variety every once in a while. I've been crossing over into other genres of music and I'm finding that VSL can be a bit difficult to work with when you're trying to do a string arrangement for a Pop song or Hard Rock. Of course, it could be that I need to remove myself from the Classical mentality when composing.

I've seen a lot of down-talk from VSL users (not so much here, but elsewhere) on Spitfire's modules. Personally, I've liked very little out of East West and I see many users on here owning VSL and EW, praising both. But I think Spitfire is far better than EW, imo and that their libraries have advantages and disadvantages and in every way they are just as viable as VSL on several different things. I think Spitfire is producing very high quality instruments.

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