MiSUMi parts for MM 1.5 confirmation please.

[T i m]

Hi all,

I have been printing all sorts of stuff on the MM 1.5 I built from a kit with / for a mate a while back and am now getting close to ordering the bigger pieces to build mine (and another set for a neighbour to build).

I have the following part numbers and would like someone to confirm they are the right things please. We are mainly looking for reliability and value for money, no point spending more than needed but at the same time don't mind spending 'a bit more' for what could be considered as the best minimum. ;-)

Extrusions:    HFS5-2020-300 (/340/420)

Linear shaft:   (8mm, X and Z) PSFG8-360 (/440)
                     (10mm, Y) PSFG10-430

Linear bushing: (Value)
C-LMU8 (/10)  Would these be the same you would typically get from eBay?)

*or*

Linear bushing:
LMU8 (/10)

Post assembly 'T' nuts (5mm thread)
HNKK5-5

All the best and thanks for your time, T i m

[Michael Anton]

The extrusions are correct.

I used PSFJ for shafts, which have a higher tolerance than PSFG.  I've heard that nophead recommends even higher tolerance than that should be used, which would be PSFU shafts.  Personally, I wouldn't use a lower grade than the PSFJ shafts.

I don't recommend getting ebay Chinese bearings.  I didn't have much luck with them, and they were sloppy and noisy, so I replaced them with Misumi bearings.  This is even after I cleaned them in an ultrasonic cleaner filled with varsol, and reoiled them.  You wouldn't believe the amount of crud that came out of them.

HNKK5-5 are pre assembly nuts.  You need to put them into the slots before assembly.  These should be fine, but you may want to get some post assembly nuts as well, in case you forget to put a nut in, but they are expensive.  Then you don't have to take it apart again to insert an extra nut.

Mike

[T i m]

On Sunday, 16 August 2015 10:48:59 UTC+1, Michael Anton wrote:

The extrusions are correct.

Thank you.
 

I used PSFJ for shafts, which have a higher tolerance than PSFG.  I've heard that nophead recommends even higher tolerance than that should be used, which would be PSFU shafts.  Personally, I wouldn't use a lower grade than the PSFJ shafts.

Ok and thanks again. I will ammend my shopping list accordingly.
 

I don't recommend getting ebay Chinese bearings.  I didn't have much luck with them, and they were sloppy and noisy, so I replaced them with Misumi bearings.

Which ones please Michael as they seem to do two ranges, 'Value' and the other?

 This is even after I cleaned them in an ultrasonic cleaner filled with varsol, and reoiled them.  You wouldn't believe the amount of crud that came out of them.

Did you also do this with the Misumi offerings OOI?

HNKK5-5 are pre assembly nuts.

Yes, sorry, I mixed my post and pre up again! ;-(   I think it was you who suggested those Misumi nuts on my first question around this area?
 

 You need to put them into the slots before assembly.  These should be fine, but you may want to get some post assembly nuts as well, in case you forget to put a nut in, but they are expensive.  Then you don't have to take it apart again to insert an extra nut.

Agreed. I was going to use those nuts for the pre assembly but will probably use what I now believe are non Misumi T nuts that came with the MM kit I built for my mate for the other / post stuff.

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/32302396500_1/60pcs-lot-2020-aluminum-profiles-font-b-T-b-font-Slot-font-b-nuts-b-font.jpg

Thanks again Mike,

Cheers, T i m

[Michael Anton]

On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 4:42:20 AM UTC-6, T i m wrote:

On Sunday, 16 August 2015 10:48:59 UTC+1, Michael Anton wrote:

The extrusions are correct.

Thank you.
 

I used PSFJ for shafts, which have a higher tolerance than PSFG.  I've heard that nophead recommends even higher tolerance than that should be used, which would be PSFU shafts.  Personally, I wouldn't use a lower grade than the PSFJ shafts.

Ok and thanks again. I will ammend my shopping list accordingly.
 

I don't recommend getting ebay Chinese bearings.  I didn't have much luck with them, and they were sloppy and noisy, so I replaced them with Misumi bearings.

Which ones please Michael as they seem to do two ranges, 'Value' and the other?

I used LMU8, and LMU10.  The permanently lubricated ones might be handy, if you have the room, and can afford them.  Or did you mean which Chinese ones, in which case, I wouldn't know how to answer that other than the part number was LM8UU/LM10UU.  I used LM10LUU for the Z, rather than two LM10UU, as they aligned better, and these were cheap Chinese ones, and seem to work ok, though they probably have more slop than the Misumi ones.

 

 This is even after I cleaned them in an ultrasonic cleaner filled with varsol, and reoiled them.  You wouldn't believe the amount of crud that came out of them.

Did you also do this with the Misumi offerings OOI?

No, I figured they should be decent, but the Chinese ones were iffy from the get go.  Put them on a shaft, and you can tell if there is crud in them, as they don't run smooth.

 

HNKK5-5 are pre assembly nuts.

Yes, sorry, I mixed my post and pre up again! ;-(   I think it was you who suggested those Misumi nuts on my first question around this area?

Probably, the information you were asking for seemed familiar, like maybe I'd responded to you once before.

 

 

 You need to put them into the slots before assembly.  These should be fine, but you may want to get some post assembly nuts as well, in case you forget to put a nut in, but they are expensive.  Then you don't have to take it apart again to insert an extra nut.

Agreed. I was going to use those nuts for the pre assembly but will probably use what I now believe are non Misumi T nuts that came with the MM kit I built for my mate for the other / post stuff.

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/32302396500_1/60pcs-lot-2020-aluminum-profiles-font-b-T-b-font-Slot-font-b-nuts-b-font.jpg

I've been using these pre-assembly nuts, instead of the Misumi ones lately: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100pcs-T-sliding-nut-block-M3-or-M4-or-M5-or-M6-slide-t-nut-for/32319910245.html.  They sell them in 50 lot too, with free shipping.  They fit the Misumi extrusions fine, but you have to make sure that there is nothing in the slot that interferes with the nuts.  The Misumi ones don't have this problem, but the threads are not as deep as these ones, and they are cheaper, which is nice.

[T i m]

On Monday, 17 August 2015 07:44:43 UTC+1, Michael Anton wrote:

<snip>

 

Which ones please Michael as they seem to do two ranges, 'Value' and the other?

I used LMU8, and LMU10.

OOI, have you tried the Misumi 'value' offering Mike?
 

 The permanently lubricated ones might be handy, if you have the room, and can afford them.  Or did you mean which Chinese ones, in which case, I wouldn't know how to answer that other than the part number was LM8UU/LM10UU.  I used LM10LUU for the Z, rather than two LM10UU, as they aligned better, and these were cheap Chinese ones, and seem to work ok, though they probably have more slop than the Misumi ones.

 

I think I was asking if you used the Misumi 'Value' or their 'Non value' (although there aren't maked as such of course but I'll call them that to differentiate the two ranges). If the items you ordered didn't start with C- then you didn't buy the Misumi 'Value' bearings. ;-)
 

 This is even after I cleaned them in an ultrasonic cleaner filled with varsol, and reoiled them.  You wouldn't believe the amount of crud that came out of them.

Did you also do this with the Misumi offerings OOI?

No, I figured they should be decent, but the Chinese ones were iffy from the get go.  Put them on a shaft, and you can tell if there is crud in them, as they don't run smooth.

I don't know what the bearings were that came with the kit I built (they were unmarked) so they could have been Chinese ones or potentially, the Misumi value ones. That said, they all seem to move on the shafts ok (even though the supplied shafts were stainless steel and therefore possibly not the 'best' solution). I have since bought some Chinese bearings and from mewmory, they too seem to move ok on the spare shafts I have. However, I haven't tried some Misumi bearings so can't make any advanced comparisons.

 

<snip>

 

I've been using these pre-assembly nuts, instead of the Misumi ones lately: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100pcs-T-sliding-nut-block-M3-or-M4-or-M5-or-M6-slide-t-nut-for/32319910245.html.  They sell them in 50 lot too, with free shipping.  They fit the Misumi extrusions fine, but you have to make sure that there is nothing in the slot that interferes with the nuts.  The Misumi ones don't have this problem, but the threads are not as deep as these ones, and they are cheaper, which is nice.

Interesting. That could be a negative re the use of the Misumi T nuts over what we used on the MM kit as the threads on those seemed pretty deep. Whilst I think they may have been more expensive, they do have a deep thread and can be used in both pre and post roles. This could still be an advantage (over using pre assembly nuts in things that you don't predict to ever need to move) and if the cost *difference* is taken as a proportion of the cost of the whole printer, may not actually be an issue (to those of us trying to build a good printer for the least cost etc). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Michael Anton]

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 1:56:36 AM UTC-6, T i m wrote:

On Monday, 17 August 2015 07:44:43 UTC+1, Michael Anton wrote:

<snip>

 

Which ones please Michael as they seem to do two ranges, 'Value' and the other?

I used LMU8, and LMU10.

OOI, have you tried the Misumi 'value' offering Mike?

Nope, I don't know part numbers for those, and I can't find anything on their site regarding "value" bushings.

  

 

 The permanently lubricated ones might be handy, if you have the room, and can afford them.  Or did you mean which Chinese ones, in which case, I wouldn't know how to answer that other than the part number was LM8UU/LM10UU.  I used LM10LUU for the Z, rather than two LM10UU, as they aligned better, and these were cheap Chinese ones, and seem to work ok, though they probably have more slop than the Misumi ones.

 

I think I was asking if you used the Misumi 'Value' or their 'Non value' (although there aren't maked as such of course but I'll call them that to differentiate the two ranges). If the items you ordered didn't start with C- then you didn't buy the Misumi 'Value' bearings. ;-)

There don't seem to be any plain linear bearing that start with C-, the only ones that do are in blocks, or have flanges on them, which I didn't need.

 

 

 This is even after I cleaned them in an ultrasonic cleaner filled with varsol, and reoiled them.  You wouldn't believe the amount of crud that came out of them.

Did you also do this with the Misumi offerings OOI?

No, I figured they should be decent, but the Chinese ones were iffy from the get go.  Put them on a shaft, and you can tell if there is crud in them, as they don't run smooth.

I don't know what the bearings were that came with the kit I built (they were unmarked) so they could have been Chinese ones or potentially, the Misumi value ones. That said, they all seem to move on the shafts ok (even though the supplied shafts were stainless steel and therefore possibly not the 'best' solution). I have since bought some Chinese bearings and from mewmory, they too seem to move ok on the spare shafts I have. However, I haven't tried some Misumi bearings so can't make any advanced comparisons.

I could have just had a bad supplier.  He replaced the problem ones (they were full of rust), but I can't say that the replacements were much better.  The ones that I put into service were pretty noisy compared to Misumi ones.

 

 

<snip>

 

I've been using these pre-assembly nuts, instead of the Misumi ones lately: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100pcs-T-sliding-nut-block-M3-or-M4-or-M5-or-M6-slide-t-nut-for/32319910245.html.  They sell them in 50 lot too, with free shipping.  They fit the Misumi extrusions fine, but you have to make sure that there is nothing in the slot that interferes with the nuts.  The Misumi ones don't have this problem, but the threads are not as deep as these ones, and they are cheaper, which is nice.

Interesting. That could be a negative re the use of the Misumi T nuts over what we used on the MM kit as the threads on those seemed pretty deep. Whilst I think they may have been more expensive, they do have a deep thread and can be used in both pre and post roles. This could still be an advantage (over using pre assembly nuts in things that you don't predict to ever need to move) and if the cost *difference* is taken as a proportion of the cost of the whole printer, may not actually be an issue (to those of us trying to build a good printer for the least cost etc). ;-)

Some of the Misumi brackets have protrusions on them that fit into the slot, and these can interfere with the nuts that protrude into the slot.  I still end up using Misumi nuts as a result at times.  I also design parts that fit into the slot, so again, I have to watch where the protrusions are located so they don't interfere with the nuts.

Mike

 

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Wednesday, 19 August 2015 05:51:47 UTC+1, Michael Anton wrote:

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 1:56:36 AM UTC-6, T i m wrote:

On Monday, 17 August 2015 07:44:43 UTC+1, Michael Anton wrote:

<snip>

 

Which ones please Michael as they seem to do two ranges, 'Value' and the other?

I used LMU8, and LMU10.

OOI, have you tried the Misumi 'value' offering Mike?

Nope, I don't know part numbers for those, and I can't find anything on their site regarding "value" bushings.

Hmm, can you see these from where you are Mike?

 http://uk.misumi-ec.com/vona2/result/?Keyword=C-LMU8

<snip>

There don't seem to be any plain linear bearing that start with C-, the only ones that do are in blocks, or have flanges on them, which I didn't need.

 

<snip>

I could have just had a bad supplier.  He replaced the problem ones (they were full of rust),

Wow, that is bad. I don't have any 'good' smooth rods here yet but I've run the Chinese bearings I have ready on one pair of SS shafts I have (we replaced the ones that came in the kit for longer ones) and they seem to run smoothly enough but don't feel particularly tight.
 

but I can't say that the replacements were much better.  The ones that I put into service were pretty noisy compared to Misumi ones.

Understood.
 

<snip>

 

Some of the Misumi brackets have protrusions on them that fit into the slot, and these can interfere with the nuts that protrude into the slot.

Ah, I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
 

 I still end up using Misumi nuts as a result at times.  I also design parts that fit into the slot, so again, I have to watch where the protrusions are located so they don't interfere with the nuts.

Hmm. I wonder what make the extrusions were on the MM 1.5 I built as I can't rember finding any positional restrictions on those. However, that may be that the T nuts we used weren't bothered by any interferences?

Thanks again for your feedback Mike.

Cheers, T i m

[Michael Anton]

On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 2:27:07 AM UTC-6, T i m wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 August 2015 05:51:47 UTC+1, Michael Anton wrote:

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 1:56:36 AM UTC-6, T i m wrote:

On Monday, 17 August 2015 07:44:43 UTC+1, Michael Anton wrote:

<snip>

 

Which ones please Michael as they seem to do two ranges, 'Value' and the other?

I used LMU8, and LMU10.

OOI, have you tried the Misumi 'value' offering Mike?

Nope, I don't know part numbers for those, and I can't find anything on their site regarding "value" bushings.

Hmm, can you see these from where you are Mike?

 http://uk.misumi-ec.com/vona2/result/?Keyword=C-LMU8

Yes, I can see them via that link, but they don't seem to be listed on the USA site.  Go figure.

 

<snip>

There don't seem to be any plain linear bearing that start with C-, the only ones that do are in blocks, or have flanges on them, which I didn't need.

 

<snip>

I could have just had a bad supplier.  He replaced the problem ones (they were full of rust),

Wow, that is bad. I don't have any 'good' smooth rods here yet but I've run the Chinese bearings I have ready on one pair of SS shafts I have (we replaced the ones that came in the kit for longer ones) and they seem to run smoothly enough but don't feel particularly tight.
 

but I can't say that the replacements were much better.  The ones that I put into service were pretty noisy compared to Misumi ones.

Understood.
 

<snip>

 

Some of the Misumi brackets have protrusions on them that fit into the slot, and these can interfere with the nuts that protrude into the slot.

Ah, I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
 

 I still end up using Misumi nuts as a result at times.  I also design parts that fit into the slot, so again, I have to watch where the protrusions are located so they don't interfere with the nuts.

Hmm. I wonder what make the extrusions were on the MM 1.5 I built as I can't rember finding any positional restrictions on those. However, that may be that the T nuts we used weren't bothered by any interferences?

It could be that the things you were mounting to the extrusions didn't have any interferences with the nuts.  It is not an issue with the extrusions.  If the nut protrudes into the slot, and the thing you are mounting protrudes into the slot, they can hit one another, unless the protrusions don't line up with each other.

I often design parts that locate on the slots, so they self align, rather than relying on the tolerances of the mounting hardware.  This is nice, but causes issues with nuts that protrude into the slot, unless the parts are designed with this in mind.  AFAIK, only the top vertexes of the original MM1.5 parts were designed to locate on the slots, and they have enough clearance for the nuts, so this is probably why you never had any issues.

Mike

[T i m]

On Friday, 21 August 2015 05:59:29 UTC+1, Michael Anton wrote:

<snip>

 

 http://uk.misumi-ec.com/vona2/result/?Keyword=C-LMU8

Yes, I can see them via that link, but they don't seem to be listed on the USA site.  Go figure.

Ah good, as long as you can see them. So, I wonder if the 'C' prefix means 'Chinese'?  ;-)

So, I wonder how they compare with their std line or the Chinese ones?

 

<snip>

Hmm. I wonder what make the extrusions were on the MM 1.5 I built as I can't rember finding any positional restrictions on those. However, that may be that the T nuts we used weren't bothered by any interferences?

It could be that the things you were mounting to the extrusions didn't have any interferences with the nuts.  It is not an issue with the extrusions.  If the nut protrudes into the slot, and the thing you are mounting protrudes into the slot, they can hit one another, unless the protrusions don't line up with each other.

Ah, yes, I undersand now.
 

I often design parts that locate on the slots, so they self align, rather than relying on the tolerances of the mounting hardware.  This is nice, but causes issues with nuts that protrude into the slot, unless the parts are designed with this in mind.

Gotcha.
 

 AFAIK, only the top vertexes of the original MM1.5 parts were designed to locate on the slots, and they have enough clearance for the nuts, so this is probably why you never had any issues.

And none of the bits I have designed (so far) have such locators so they would be ok etc. The T nuts we used do have a small collar that protrudes back into the slot and infact it is that that collar that restrisct the T nut from rotating further than 90 Degrees. 

Cheers, T i m