Ecu readers

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Good afternoon.
Please excuse my ignorance regarding this group as I've only just stumbled uopn it.
Basically I've been trying to find a code reader for my vehicle (rover metro GTI /MPI 1990 ecu MKC10072) for some time.
I bought a datacheck 100 but it would not recognise the ecu.
I'd always liked the idea of the mems diag app and all it promised so I cut off the plug from the datacheck and proceeded to make the cable for use with the mems diag software to no avail as the app times out not connecting to the ecu.
I've checked continuity of all connections from the ecu plug to tge inside of the usb cable and all checks out fine.
Is there anything logical I'm missing?
Is there an alternative app?

Thanks in advance much appreciated

[Martin Rubenstein]

There’s so much that can go wrong that it’s quite unlikely it will work first time.

Firstly, can you confirm the version/protocol is MEMS 1.6 and not, for example, 1.3?

Secondly, are you confident that you built your lead correctly iaw the instructions on Pwel’s website (and Colin’s)? From what you said, I don’t know if your lead will work: the lead needs to be a “USB to TTL Serial Cable (5.0V)” and then, on Windows, anyway, you need the apprpriate driver.

Then, there’s the question regarding the Android device you are running the MEMSDiag App on. Not all Andoid devices will run it, as Pawel’s site mentions. I believe most Samsung devices work. (I run MEMSDiag in Virtualbox on Windows, and that was hard enough to get running!). Then for Android you need and additional cable I think, to allow 2-way communication.... I’m really not sure about the exact details: I’ve only run it in Android within Virtualbox on Windows, not on an Android device.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Good afternoon Martin.
Thank you for your reply.
As I understand it my vehicle will be mems 1.6 for an MPI 1.4 metro.
I've set the protocol on the app to 1 6 also.
Im using a Samsung Galaxy s5 and it does not appear to be one of the non functional models.
There is a chance the cable may be wrong as I copied the exact part number / type from the memsgauge website that took me to this link and looked on ebay with the cheapest being around £16 and there's no way I would have paid that initially (I collected the parts over a year ago) so maybe this is the issue?
It is / was a TTL cable but may not be the required spec and I'm not good with these things really.

It would help if there was a way I could post photos to this page?

thanks for your assistance so far
Much appreciated

[Martin Rubenstein]

I believe that Haro sells the leads on ebay. Do you have his email address so you can contact him and check? Certainly, if you bought one of his leads you could rest assured it would work. And the other lead I was yhinking about is the OTG lead. Never having used an Android device, I have no idea what tgey look like, but I imagined that the TTL lead and OTG lead plugged in series between the Samsung device and the MEMS diagnostic socket. Certainly, Pawel’s site seems to give a lot of detail on this.

I’m glad you noticed the protocol setting in Pawel’s app, because that was yet another setting, which, if not correct, would stop it working. I don’t suppose anyone ever got it to work first time, so just keep going and I’m sure you’ll eventually get it going.


Do you have a Windows laptop? It might help if you try and also get, say, Haro’s sftware working too. One you get one working, you’ll then have confidence in the lead.

And tgere are still times when, even though I’ve had it all working, I come back to it after a couple of months and can’t get it to connect because I’ve forgotten some critical setting or my usb connection has become loose! A lot of places where things can go wrong.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Hi Martin

thank you once again for your informative reply

its encouraging that this does not work straight out of the box so to speak meaning there is hope for me

so from the top

I'm not familiar with Haro, is this a source for built up cables?

if so I'm interested.

I will try to add photos of my lead I'm using (I'm now replying on laptop so may be able to add images) the TTL lead I have has the cover removed as I was checking continuity on the terminals, does this look like the riht lead?

also I will try to attach pictures of the OTG cable ive been using (which I know works as I've used it elsewhere) and a simple usb to micro usb adapter I've used also.

and also a screenshot of the memsdiag error message for clarity

lastly I do have a windows laptop, do you have a link to the software for that?

hanks again for your help, I'm feeling more optimistic now

kind regards

 

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

[leopold....@t-online.de]

Hi,
usb-ttl  seems to be the right one, but you only need ground, rx and tx for the connection..It is not verified that all this software works on your ecu. You say it is an mpi but it's from 1990 so you have to test. You may download Haros mems-scan ,you'll find it in his thread before or you may try mems-rosco from github.com/leopoldg.
On both programs you have to set the communication port within options before starting!

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the information.
I do only have ground tx and rx wired up to the usb and confirmed with continuity check.

I'll have a look at the link you posted abd see what I can make of it.

Kind regards

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

evening all

so ive downloaded the "rosco" app and ran it on my laptop.

it does not work with this error message, does this mean my cable is categorically no good or is there another variable I'm not aware of?

thanks in advance

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Further to my last post.
There was an option to "name serial device" and specify temperature units beforehand.
Knowing no better I named "ecu" and Celsius

Just incase that has a bearing on anything?

[Alan Richey]

Very difficult to read those images, but that doesn’t look like a COM number to me.?

Have you checked in Device Manager (right-click on Start button) that your cable has been recognised by the computer, and installed, has been allocated a COM Port and the driver is actually working? (No warning yellow triangle)

Have you then typed in the correct COM Port (COM3 or COM4 or whatever) in ‘options’ in MEMSRoscoe ?

Possibly a dumb question, but as you haven’t detailed to us what you have done, I have to ask - Did you have the ignition turned on ?

[Alan Richey]

Martin: are there no instructions anywhere for this ? This user just seems to be using trial and error.

[leopold....@t-online.de]

Hi,
have a look to the attached file.

Like Alan mentioned : You may first  check settings in windows if your usb-ttl converter has been recognized.
If you have win10: press windows-tab +pause, then device manager  , within connections (second or third entry) you should see your ttl converter.Mostly as com 3!

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Thanks guts for all the information and assistance.
To start off with. The error message I received read "error connecting to ECU on port ecu. Check cable wiring and check ecu is on"

I plugged it in and turned the ignition on then also tried with the engine running, upon hitting the connect button on screen I got that error message.

When I plugged the ttl to the laptop the laptop made the bleep noise it dies when connecting devices and the usb flashed momentarily whether that means it's been officially recognised or not I'm not sure but will follow tge steps recommended by you later today and see how I get on.

Thanks for all your informative replies.

[Martin Rubenstein]

Al, I was going to say I couldn’t find any instructions, especially concening the COM port part, but then I saw Leopold’s post following yours and his excellent presentation. Perhaps Leopold might mention Windows Device Manager to check which COM port is in use and there are no problems (yellow warning signs with it); I’ll have another read of it and maybe send a suggestion to Leopold.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Good evening all.
It's been a while but new job and house move out the way i thought I'd dust this off
There was some confusion before as to weather I had the right cable or not so I dug out my old ebay transaction and the details are attached.
It does not mention 5v but 3.3v so I assume this is why I couldn't connect?
Can anyone recommend a cost effective supplier of the 5v cable please?
I know mouser is recommended but the postage is nearly as much as the cable itself which seems odd.
Thanks in advance

[Martin Rubenstein]

Try CPC Farnell. I get all my stuff from them. They are very good and postage is free above I think it’s £10, certainly a nominal amount

https://cpc.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?catalogId=15002&langId=69&storeId=10180&gs=true&st=5v%20ttl&aka_re=1

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Thanks Martin
I've ordered one from cpc now so fingers crossed
Kind regards
Justin

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Hi all.
So I've got my new cable from cpc and wired it up.
Plugging it into my phone via the adapter cable and into the 3pin socket I still getting the error message unable to connect to ecu on mems diag
I will intend to Check connectivity of the various cables first but in the meantime if anyone all ready has it noted down which USB TTL cable wire colour should connect to which pin on the ecu (I believe it's 8 and 9 and ground) that way I can assume the USB cable is good as it's new but at least check the continuity of the connections between it and the business end if the ecu.
Thus eliminating a hardware issue so I can concentrate on the software.

Thank you all in advance
Justin

[Martin Rubenstein]

Such a long time since I made mine. I followed the info on Pawel’s site - he’s the developer of the Android MemsDiag app. I also followed Colin Bourassa’s instructions. No contradictions, but when using Windows you make sure you’re on the right COM port. It never works first time; if ot does you’ve done something wrong ;)

On my Rover 100 my cable continuity test shows:

Red wire to pin 15
Yellow wire to pin 10
Black wire to pin 30


You’re using your phone, so does that mean the Android app? With an OTG lead?

[leopold....@t-online.de]

in mems-diag press the points on top right side, preferencies will open.Here you can choose which ecu you will get to. Standard is ecu 1.6
Wrong decision  no connection!

[Martin Rubenstein]

Pawel’s blog page is here:

http://memsdiag.blogspot.com/2015/01/memsdiag-what-is-memsdiag-memsdiag-is.html?m=1

I can’t get Colin’s page to open.

You’ve seen the topics covering communications problems with the ECU no doubt.

[leopold....@t-online.de]

Here is Colins :https://github.com/colinbourassa/librosco/blob/wiki/HardwareInterface.md
but it is the same like Pawels

[Martin Rubenstein]

Thanks, Leopold. I was trying

http://alum.wpi.edu/~colinb/rover-mems-16-diagnostic-protocol.html

and not getting very far.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Hi both
Thanks for your information.
I am using my Samsung phone with the otg cable , and I do have it set to mems 1.6
I'll check the continuity later today to see what's amiss.
I'll keep you posted

Kind regards

[Francis Knight]

If you've got a terminal emulator app (almost essential when playing around with serial device comms), you could temporarily link the TX and RX lines of your cable, then see if all output you type gets echoed back. If not, adjust settings and/or ports until you do. Then you can be confident that when you've plugged into the ECU, your setup is actually talking to it.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Hi all
Thank you for all your help to date.
Thank you Francis for your comment I appreciate the input.
Before I got myself too in depth again with the software side of things I thought I'd go over all the connections once more.
I did take photos but for some reason I can't attach them whilst on my mobile however I will try to explain the situation as I understand it as best I can.
Firstly please understand I'm very much an amateur when it comes to computing.

Looking in the Haynes manual for 36 pin ecu connections it is stated that pin 10 is diagnostic output and pin 15 is diagnostic input.
My understanding is that output is TXD and input is RXD.

Looking at the USB cable I have and tapping into the 3 wires used (yellow black orange) it would appear I have orange to pin 10 - diagnostic output TXD and yellow to pin 15 - diagnostic input RXD.

It's shown on the data file for the cable I used that orange is TXD - output and yellow is RXD - input

My understanding is that you need a TXD connected to an RXD and vice versa to transmit and receive the information?

It would appear I have TXD to TXD and RXD to RXD ?
Is anyone else reading that the same? - have I got my wires crossed so to speak?

Thanks all for your help 😉

[leopold....@t-online.de]

nothing will be damaged if you change rxd and txt.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Evening all.
Some good news.
I've switched the wires around as proposed yesterday and rather than getting the failed to connect to ecu message I'm now getting (amongst many other OK messages)
OK ecu replied correctly [time elapsed] ;200
Followed by many lines of
-ERR,CMDfailed-timeout [time_elapsed]:200
-ERR,CMDfailed-timeout[time_elapsed]:1600
-ERR,CMDfailed-timeout[time_elapsed]:600
Etc etc

Not the 100% success I want however at least I've got confirmation that the ecu is talking to my phone with the cable plug itself making lots of encouraging green flashes.
So now I feel like trying out one of the windows based programmes but does all the "timeout" messages mean anything to anyone?

As ever I thank you for your assistance
Justin

[Martin Rubenstein]

The timeout messages don’t ring any bells with me, but I’m pleased that you’re going to try one of the Windows programmes: the OTG lead won’t be needed and many of us are more familiar with them. But if yiu still have problems, don’t rule out the possibility that your original connections were correct. It’s a while since I made my lead but I found that the instructions of Colin and Pawel were quite clear, but then again I know from experience it’s not difficult to get things wrong when, for example, working out the wiring of a female socket whilst looking at a pin-out drawing of a male plug. Look forwards to the update.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Right then
Tablet still gives same error message as phone so I will focus my efforts around the windows systems for the foreseeable future.
Just need to work out how to open rar files 😣😣

[leopold....@t-online.de]

windows programs will not work with MPI
but I would test the 1.9 setting!

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Ahh right.
That's probably the end of that then as mine is mpi and last night I tried both settings on memsdiag 😣

[Martin Rubenstein]

Are you in the UK? If so, and you want to send me your lead, I could at least test it on my SPi Rover 100. Then, hopefully, with that pronounced 100% good, you’d be in a much better position. And I know the support from Pawel, the developer of Memsdiag is excellent.

[Martin Rubenstein]

Is there a way you can test the OTG lead? I thought I might have read somewhere there are OTG leads of dubious quality out there (like everything else we come across).

I can run Memsdiag on Windows running Android in a virtual machine; thankfully, there’s no need for an OTG lead in that setup.

[Alan Richey]

I don't think this is true, I am happily running MEMSScan on my Windows PC and my engine is a Rover T16 which is definitely MPI..  So I would recommend you try this software.  This is the version produced by Haro and seems to be very stable.   You can get it from https://github.com/haro78/MEMS-Scan/releases

As to the wiring, there is a picture at http://memsdiag.blogspot.com/ that shows where each colour wire goes.  That is what most of us have used.

I can't help on MEMSDiag as I have never found an Android phone that will connect properly.   But we are still waiting for an answer from you about the Windows setup and we can't really help until they are answered.

When you run Device Manager and plug the cable into the computer what COM port has it been allocated ?

When you start up MEMSScan make sure you go to Options > EditSettings.   I see from a previous post that you named the serial device 'ECU'.  That will never work.  It must contain the words COM followed by the port number you found, so it will be like COM2 or COM3...

Come back with the answer.

AL

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Hi all
Thanks again for your replies.

Martin - I visit Cosford museum often with my kids - we all love it.
I work at MOD Donnington not far from it.
Sadly I don't own a hydragas pump which is one of the reasons I decided to build my own suspension 😉.

Alan - I'm encouraged that you can get a windows system to operate an mpi setup so maybe there's hope yet.
I'll gang onto my cable for a day or 2 just in case I have a requirement to try something out.
I'm 99% confident that my cable is OK now as I've traced it one way using the Haynes pinout and the logic that TX goes to RX ect. And also confirmed against the various comments in this thread however it would still be beneficial to actually test it real world as Martin suggested and offered.

As it stands I can't simply connect my laptop in a jiffy as it only occurred to me that the programme I originally had was on my old laptop.
I tried to download one if them last night (memsrosco I think) but it got the better of me with RAR files and all that.
I think the issue is that I already had winrar on this laptop to attempt to install a navagation software (another unsuccessful venture) so now it wants me to pay for it which I don't fancy doing with my success rates (what happened to the good days when you could just right click download and Bobs yer teapot?
I don't even know what COM ports are??
Like I've said computers are not my strong point but the irony is I need to go through this so I can diagnose some running issues all because computers aren't my strong point 😣
I'll have another go at that tonight downloading a windows programme and see where that gets me.

I will of course keep you all updated

Many thanks
Justin

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Thanks both for your replies.
The COM port quandary makes a bit more sense now so thanks for that and memsscan must be the version I tried previously as I also don't recall having to un-rar (is that even a thing?) The file beforehand so I will definitely have a go at that tonight once I've tweaked my suspension.

Yep those liquid levellers darlek pumps a a good asset to have but a little on the big side for occasional use plus I feel more at home with a setup I fully understand - what put me off hydragas was the not knowing if or when a unit may fail which happened to the previous owner leaving him stranded in Normandy.
The increasing costs of replacement units was also a deciding factor however if I do a rough calculation of what coilovers have cist me in R&D I would have enough for 10 pumps and 2 sets of hydragas units 😂

I'll be in touch ..

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

so I've clicked the link for memsscan

got this

clicking the top link and hitting open reveals this 

I genuinely have no idea what to do now sorry 

any help much appreciated

kind regards 

[Martin Rubenstein]

Try this: with that folder on your desktop, which I assume is where you put it, double click on mems-scan.exe. (Or right click mems-scan.exe and select open).)

Does that work?

[Alan Richey]

I just realised I have been replying direct not via the Group.    I just explained to him how to change default programs so that clicking on a ZIP file will not invoke WINRar.

In the future I'll reply via the Group.

Sorry

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Nice one chaps
I'm not 100% sure how this whole group chat / email thing works either.
Anyway what you've said regarding winrar does make sense so I'll get on removing that tonight and going at it again.
Many thanks and I'm sure I owe you all a drink at some point😉

I'll update you soon
Bye for now
Justin

[Martin Rubenstein]

One thing I forgot to mention and it may well not apply to you, but on my laptop, when I open
MEMS-scan, it can take quite a while (30 secs, sometimes even longer) to open. So if nothing appears to happen, don’t worry just be patient, and if your laptop is an old one like mine, go and make a cup of tea. The wait will be worthwhile. I’m sure we’ll get you sorted even if it takes a little while. And it’s good for me too: I’ve become very rusty on this stuff, not having used it for quite a while. I’d forgotten just how amazing these software packages are - they would easy hold their own alongside dealer-level diagnostic software.

[Francis Knight]

Puzzled! I had always assumed that librosco only understood the MEMS protocol associated with the 3-pin diagnostic port. 

Should it also understand the 36-pin version?

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

ahahh

thanks for the replies

I now have memsscan installed and ready to go.

I'm too tired to test the cable right now but will get on it some time tomorrow.

cheers all 

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

I DONT BELEIVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!

if I'm not mistaken its finally working

it connected up ok once id figured out how to name the port (thanks Alan and Martin) and for a short period I've ran the engine and observed the readings.

all I can say is thank you very much from the bottom of my heart to everyone who has contributed to this topic over the last year or so especially those who have stuck with me most recently since I decided to resurrect this project.

if ever I can do anything for you please let me know - check out my website at http://easywider.co.uk/  if you want some wheel arch extensions for anything let me know, they're yours for free.

in reality I suppose this is just the beginning as I now have to know what to do with this information.

here is a screen shot of the fault codes 

I didn't do anything with them as this is literally new territory for me.

I get the impression you can do a fair bit with this software so it stands to reason I could also bugger things up quite well.

with that in mind I do have a few questions to ask if I may? 

1. my first question is - should I clear the fault codes? - I'm not surprised that there are so many as all sorts of weird and wonderful things have happened to the car since I've owned it.

I'm not surprised the tps fault is showing as that's given my some proper grief over the years and is currently unplugged and working well (needs addressing obviously) 

2. is there an advantage of clearing the codes?

do I then just wait for new ones to pop up indicating the most recent / active faults? indicating those ares that need attention? -this is what I feel needs doing first.

3. also how accurate is the data and information? if I have an error of crankshaft sync ( I think that's one of them) should I absolutely categorically on this before I pull the car apart?

4. ive seen a few similar programmes mentioned here? whats the best one to go for or are they pretty much the same?

5. lastly I've seen a tab for making adjustments - what's the benefit of this? or should I leave well away for the time being?

I look forward to using this new tool and reporting back what I find

thanks once again for all your help you have all been truly amazing 

[leopold....@t-online.de]

Hi Justin,
congratulation.
First of all, connect the TPS. Then clear all the fault codes. Warm up ( better drive) until the engine has more than 85 C. Check for faults again. If there are any try to solve them. If you can`t then ask here again.Additionally you can do a log file , it will be saved within c:/memsscan/logs as a txt file. You may have a look to it with excel, Al's memsanalyzer or in mems rosco on the tab"read log".
If you hover over the expressions in mems-rosco"all reading" you will be shown some explanations for a couple of these expressions.
BTW, what is /was the trouble with your engine?

[leopold....@t-online.de]

I forgott one thing.
Question 5: Don`t touch  one of these settings it is for mechanics with good knowledge of mems only!!!!!!!

[Martin Rubenstein]

Excellent. I was checking all day yesterday to see if you’d posted.

Nothing to add to Leopold’s great advice except also try and attach your logfile in a post as well so we can look at it, too.

Those fault codes may well b e years old and some no longer relevant. You’ve been running with he throttle position sensor disconnected? You must have been running in “limp home” mode then: the ECU needs to know where the throttle is at all times. Your logfile, with the tps reconnected (and fault code cleared) will be very helpful.

I think it’s fair to say the data and info is mostly accurate, but you’re right to keep an open mind. I would think the cam-crank sync should be accurate; however, a ‘scope would be the true test. Is it not easy to get the cambelt cover off and physically check the marks?

I’d say stay with this program for now, get familiar with its use etc snd then play with the others at a later date when you have sorted all the other problems.

What were the problems/symptoms that you needed to disconnect the tps?

Well done again, you’ll find yourself a lot higher up the computing learning curve after this as well as understanding a lot more about MEMS and OBD in general.

[Alan Richey]

I'm probably biased but I think your next step is to install MEMSAnalyser  (http://www.rmrsoft.com) that will give you the chance to analyse a log file in great detail.   If not, then as has been suggested, post your logfile here and we can all take a look.  

[Martin Rubenstein]

No, Al, you’re not biased: it’s my tool of choice for the logfile. Leopold mentioned it, but in with 2 other options, and I meant to expand on it to say it would be my preferred choice and the tool I’d be using when Justin attaches his logfile.

And, for Justin, just to add about an oscilloscope being the true test for cam-crank sync, the ‘scope is useless unless you have a known good waveform to compare to (either from a waveform library eg at Pico, or an identical engine to ‘scope).

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Thanks for all the comments guys it's good to know I'm going in the right direction.
The reason I disconnected the tps is that it's always been a bit iffy sometimes requiring the tps reset procedure to bring down a fast or unstable idle.
I changed the original tps from the car to a new old stock unit from a replacement throttle body.
This worked great for a good few months but then the car started to missfire in use - resetting the tps made no difference it got so bad I actually did a compression test as I thought it would be something bad.
A friend suggested disconnecting the lambda which made no difference so out of desperation I disconnected the tps and the fault completely went.
No other symptoms other that a very slight lumpy idle when cold but other than that it drives great.
Since then I've checked the wiring to the tps and it's all good.
So plan A is to warm engine and reconnect the tps.
Clear fault codes and run memsscan again and see what happens 😉😉
I'll be back in touch soon
cheers

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Still on topic but a different question
Can this programme be made to work on a tablet preferably 7inch?
My plan was to run memsdiag direct to my in-dash tablet screen to provide data on the go.
Can this windows system be made to work with my android tablet or will this run on a Windows 10 tablet?
It would save having to balance the laptop on the engine 😉

[leopold....@t-online.de]

Can this windows system be made to work with my android tablet or will this run on a Windows 10 tablet?

Why don`t you try on the win10 system yourself?
windows programs run on windows systems
android programs (mems-diag) run on androids!

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Hi
I would, but I don't have a windows table so I was just wondering if anybody was successfully using one before I forked out for one 😉

[Martin Rubenstein]

You could make one logfile with say ignition on and engine off and simply slowly depress the accelerator to the floor and slowly release. You’ll then see if the tps signal is smooth throughout. This logfiles from software will help remove all (or most) of the guesswork and theorising!

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

good evening folks

so for tonight's activities I've reconnected the TPS and cleared fault codes

ran engine the list of fault codes went from this

to just 06 - fuel temp sensor / 18 - no description and 21 - crank shaft sync

.

so not flagging up TPS as a fault however I did notice on the "all data" tab that it shows throttle angle as 44 degrees - surly at idle it would be close to zero or am I taking that too literally?

so on to the recorded faults

06 - fuel temp sensor - I wasn't even aware it had one?

18 - ??

21 - crank shaft sync - as far as im aware the crank is monitored by the crank sensor on the flywheel - so what is this synchronising with? it has no cam sensor and surly the crank sensor just tells the ECU where it is in the cycle to add spark etc?

I did run a data log for around 30 seconds - ie no idea if that's enough but my plan is to take my laptop into work tomorrow and firstly see how it drives with the TPS reconnected and run another scan to see if anything else gets picked up and maybe run another data log.

lastly I notice the adjustments screen has an ECU reset button - is it worth hitting that? - would it just start my ECU from scratch?

as always any help much appreciated.

kind regards

Justin

[Martin Rubenstein]

It’s roadworthy? I thought you were in the middle of the suspension modification? And you obviously got the MOT before the throttle position sensor problem (oand lambda disconnection?).

Yes, I don’t have a fuel temp sensor but I show the fault code. I’m not familiar with your engine: I have the SPi K Series, but if you don’t have a cam sensor, then the crank sync will be another spurious fault code. As you say, there’s no other input it could sync to.

You can’t take the throttle angle literally. Al Richey did explain it to me once; it’s to do with the software and how the signal is dealt with. I could be wrong but it may be if you divide the indicated angle by 2, you get a closer value. Anyway, what matters is a continuous signal throughout the range. No spikes or dropouts. Don’t worry about the indicated angle. (I think Al’s program gives the correct angle.)

Coolant temp and inlet air temp fault codes? Those could be genuine; see how they display over the warm-up on the log.

ECU reset: if you have been playing with settings on the tab Leopold told you not to touch ;) that reset would set them back to the default state. That would also happen if you disconnected the battery/ECU, but then you’d also lose the learned, adaptive stuff like fuel trim and idle speed and there may be something else. I’m not sure if that reset button also take the ECU back to the same, fully factory default state. My guess is that there is no reason to reset the ECU; I would leave it. Indeed, if you disconnected the battery whilst working under your car, you will already have reset it.

The lambda signal error fault: you might not have run the car long enough for it to go into closed loop (30 seconds? maybe more if static?).

Anyway, that’s as I remember it. In one of the topics, there’s a list of resources and there’s a Chapter 14 (from a Haynes manual) on MEMS. It is full of information on how it all works.


PS. You need to get to bed a bit earlier ;)

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Thanks Martin for your informative reply.
You're right I really do need to get to bed earlier however with 3 kids in the house this us the only time I get to play 😉
As for the car it us all road legal and tested, I just work quick with having completed the suspension adjustments in 2 evenings and I'm happy to report it handles nicely.
Right then having reconnected the TPS and cleared the fault codes last night I've drove it this morning and to my surprise it's driving very well - the last time I drove it with the TPS connected it was virtually undrivable.
So this seems positive.
Last night's remaining fault codes were

06 - fuel temp sensor

18 - ??
21 - crank shaft sync

I will run the car again at lunch and check to see if anything gets flagged up.
If we are ignoring the fuel temp sensor code leaving the crank sync - would a faulty crankshaft sensor flag this?
It's not very old BTW.

Only other thing I did notice was there is a green icon for the idle switch (which my car has) and I didn't notice it doing anything pressing the throttle so u need to look at that.
Regarding the throttle angle I may do as suggested and run a log on that and see how it looks.

All jolly good fun.

Thanks loads
Justin

[Martin Rubenstein]

If you document the suspension mod on the Internet, please send a link, not that I’d ever contemplate such a job now, but I’m fascinated to see how it was done.

I need to connect up my car to refresh my memory on the spurious faults, but for now ignore the crank sync “fault”. If your ckp sensor was faulty your car would not start. And without a cam sensor there’s no way MEMS can determine crank-cam sync. It has to be a spurious fault. (In an ideal world, the software would know which engine you have, and if there’s no cam sensor, that fault code would be disabled. What the eye doesn’t see, the heart doesn’t grieve over!). Looks like you have no fault codes then.

Up to 1993 there was a physical idle switch on the accelerator pedal. After 1993 they “trained” MEMS to learn when the car was idling (might take a few journeys, probably quicker in urban driving) so no need for a switch. The green light shows when MEMS says you’re at idle. Works well.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Hi Martin
I've just realised that I haven't documented the suspension build on a separate forum - I had documented everything I did up until photobucket chucked a wobbly several years back.
I have documented it word for word on Facebook - I'm not sure if you use it but all of my suspension posts were made public so if you start here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=604363983300675&id=100011812351048 and work backwards they should all come to light eventually.
I seem to recall I began designing the setup December 2016.
Failing that I do have a text version I write for our club magazine that I could send you and try to attach the photos - let me know if that's better.

Anyway yes I agree with your thoughts, I've done a quick Google search regarding mems fault codes and it would appear that where sensors are not fitted (crank sync and fuel temp were given as examples) that you get a generic code flag up.
Come to think of it the code didn't even temporarily dissappear when erasing them with engine running and I would have thought a genuine fault codes would still take a delay to register even just seconds.
So yes it would appear I don't have any faults as of last night but I will check again on my lunch break.
I may well try mems analyser next and look into getting a windows tablet

I'll update you soon 😉
Regards
Justin

[Martin Rubenstein]

Many thanks. Luckily I replaced my front Hydragas units 2 years ago and have 2 rear ones as spares. I wouldn’t have the patience for what you’ve done, not for a bog standard Rover 100! The Facebook stuff was good enough, thanks.

Let us know when you’ve got logfiles, but certainly things are looking good. And a lot better than this time last week. You definitely need to play with Al Richey’s programs, too, once the dust settles.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Right then.
I've just done a quick drive and reconnected the laptop and still showing technically no fault codes and driving very well.
So all in all its looking very promising.
The idle switch is also being recognised so that's all good too.
Technically speaking I've now achieved my minimum objective as the car runs well with no fault codes.
I did notice at idle the throttle position angle showing as 87 degrees as opposed to last night's 40 something so I do think something is am is in this area.

Job 1 is to do as you suggested and move the throttle through its arc and share the log which should be tonight.
Jib 2 is to download the analyser programme and see what that picks up.

So far so good though - very impressed.

P.s my car is a midas cortez kit car - essentially a rover metro but fiberglass (I don't like rust lol)

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

with regards to data logs, is this any good for the TPS as suggested?

it was ignition on - start logging - move throttle cam directly by hand slowly open and close twice then stop logging.

does this assist in identifying a potential issue with the TPS?

I did notice on the all data screen it showed a value of 103% at rest and went up to something like 120% at full throttle

thanks in advance

[leopold....@t-online.de]

for diagnostic we need the txt file!

[Martin Rubenstein]

Please send the logfile itself.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Thanks all for your help.
My next plan of action is to try the mems analyser programme just out of curiosity really as part of the learning curve.
I don't seem to be able to upload file directly to this forum page but will keep you updated with what I find.

Cheers

[Martin Rubenstein]

Note that the MEMSAnalyser program is just that: it analyses logfiles made with other programs such as memslogger - by Al, the same developer- or Haro’s or Leopold’s. It’s very flexible in that respect, but it took a lot of effort on Al’s part to make it able to read the different log-files. You use MEMSAnalyser after you’ve got the logfile and you’re back home with a cup of tea. On the other hand, Leopold’s program and Haro’s, whilst also having the logging facility, allow you to see in real time what the readings are.

When you get to try Al Richey’s memslogger, make sure you thoroughly read the Readme file first.

[Alan Richey]

I actually use MEMSScan now rather then MEMSLogger.  It's easier

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Right then I see - gotcha.

So long with 1 and analyse with the other - I take it that's what you did with my data?

Which next programme would be recommended to try next?
I've erased my faults and my car's doing om so what other things can be achieved?
I really want to have my dashboard screen wired up to the ecu so I can see live data on the move even if that means swapping android to windows.

[leopold....@t-online.de]

Main difference between memslogger and other log files: mems logger shows hex digids while the others are normal digits , so you can do your own graphs in excel with ease. The originator of the log files is the same.With mems-rosco readlog you may see up to 4 graphs at a time and you may read mems-diag logfiles too while memsanalyzer shows faults too.Only Haro`s log file logs the ecu-number!

[Alan Richey]

You need to understand that there are 4 programs (MEMSGauge (Colin), MEMSRosco (Leopold), MEMSScan (Haro) and MEMSLogger (Me)) that all do the same thing, i'e show what is happening to the engine in real time.   These were written by the 4 different people to their own specifications so it doesn't matter which one you use, just pick your favorite  (Although I wrote MEMSLogger, I actually use Haro's MEMSScan).

However, unless you have a passenger, it is dangerous to look atthese programs while you are driving, it's a receipe for a crash.   So for that reason all 4 programs produce a log file that you can analyse when you get back home.   That is why I wrote MEMSAnalyser, which will take any of the 4 logfiles and show graphically what the engine did over the whole trip rather than just the snapshot you get from the 4 programs.

Make sense ?

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

good evening guys

thanks for the input.

a lot of what you have said recently does indeed make sense - so that's a good start.

I think for me, since I've completed primary main objective #1 which is to confirm my cable works and clear my fault codes I will now systematically go through each of the  programmes ands which "feels" the best moving forwards.

one of the reasons of utilising my in-dash tablet is that I regularly do track days and being able to have a graphical display of what's been going on may be beneficial, also I liked the idea that should a fault situation occur in normal day to day use I could log into the programme to get a heads up on what the problem may be without even getting out of the car

also with regards to memsscan the overview screen would provide useful additional engine data whilst on the move without the need to resort to extra gauges on the car, I had an IAT gauge on my last car fitted by myself and it was invaluable in tuning the carburettor, ok so not relevant here but either ay the more info at my fingertips the better.

I like the idea of producing graphs for each journey, 

like I say next step will be try each one n turn and pick my chosen programme then integrate it into the car

ill keep you posted :)

[Martin Rubenstein]

Great progress. But remember what Al Richey said about the dangers posed to the driver’s concentration by live data If you don’t have the in-dash tablet you won’t won’t be tempted to look at it and play with it whilst driving. I think you should leave the glass-cockpit idea for aircraft.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

I grew up watching Knight rider.
I won't be happy until my car talks to me and can jump over walls 😁

[Martin Rubenstein]

Ha! Just be careful and definitely keep in touch, Justin.

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Thanks everyone and yes I will be keeping in touch as there's still plenty to do 😉
Have a great weekend folks

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Just a quick one
If u buy a windows 7" tablet that has just 1 micro USB port- how do I go about "naming" it COM1 2 3 etc or is it just COM1 by default?
Cheers

[Alan Richey]

Assuming it works like a Windows PC, then the Operating System will allocate the number for you.   To find out what number it has allocated you need to right click on the Start button, select Device Manager and look for the COM port option.

[Martin Rubenstein]

Justin

I'm having problems creating a logfile with Haro's mems-scan: when I select "Start logging" I get an error message "Failed to open logfile (logs\2019-07-23....txt)     When I create my own text file eg logfile.txt and place it in the logs folder and then generate a logfile, MemsAnalyser can't open it: Runtime error 62 Input past end of file.      Memelogger might be a bit fiddly but at least it works for me.      So all I can tell you is that on MemsScan, with the throttle closed I first see a throttle position of 13% on the gauge, and 108% at WOT then falling down to 8% throttle closed.

[Martin Rubenstein]

Solved my problem with mems-scan: I moved the folder from my desktop (on E drive) to the Program Files folder on the C drive and now I can log with mems-scan.     (Possibly due to the Controlled Folder Access setting which I've since had to turn off, anyway, so I can save files to folders.)

I've attached the screenshot of the throttle position on my MEMS 1.6 Rover 100 as logged by Haro's mems-scan and displayed by Al's MEMSAnalyser.      (It would be nice if one could simply paste a picture into the post.)

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Good afternoon folks



Firstly thanks for all your help and assistance in getting me up and running with the mems diagnostic software.



Now that all seems to be running right and I’ve diagnosed a TPS fault with the help of Martin (thank you very much mate) I wish to use the software in anger and on the go.

The memsdiag programme has a feature to log on the go, and produce graphs (as do the other programmes) and GPS tracking so I wish to hook this up to my in-dash tablet permanently so I can use it to log data on the go and also see any faults as they occur.



My problem is with the android tablet in have fitted I can either charge it or data link it but not both owing to it only having the one micro USB socket.

I’ve tried various USB splitter cables and they don’t seem to do what I want.



My question is – can the TTL cable used to link to the 3 pin ECU plug be used to also charge the tablet?

Only 3 wires are used and I believe the red +ve is still free, so adding a 5v charge to this from a power adapter is part of the equation – I’m stuck on the next bit – would it earth back through the black cable back to the ECU or would I need a separate ground from the 5v power adapter and a diode or something like that?



Im hoping that some of you with your superior knowledge of USB cables and the mems ECU may be able to answer this?



I look forward to hearing any responses.



Thank you for your help as always



Kind regards

Justin

[Martin Rubenstein]

Great progress, Justin.

No experience of what you’re trying to do; however, I ran a quick Google search and as ever someone else has been there first

Eg

https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/114070/is-possible-to-charge-device-and-provide-data-transfer-using-a-single-usb-port


Looks possibly helpful; if not, continue the search with

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=android+tablet+charge+and+data+transfer+through+single+usb+port&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

(I think Pawel included a GPS input in memsdiag so he could measure distance gone as part of his MPG calculations.)

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Hi Martin
Thanks for that information, I had tried similar Google searches but not found anything as useful as that.
I'll see how I get on and report back.

Cheers
Justin

[sales.e...@gmail.com]

Good evening all.
I hope you have all been well and good?

So since my last updates I've been using the dashboard tablet daily to keep check on the engine and also use it's other functions for sat nav etc.

I've since changed the tablet for a slightly bigger and better one that has built in GPS suiting my needs well.
The tablet is an xgody at01 with a separate charging port to the USB-C port for data transfer.
However I have a problem with this tablet in that as soon as I plug in the otg cable it no longer charges (despite separate charging cable connection) and the battery actively drains.
The otg cables I have appear to be USB 3.0 with multiple wires within.
I also have 2 USB-C to USB male leads (only 4 wires inside) that plug in and don't drain the battery, however because the largest USB end is male it's no good for connecting to the TTL cable connected to the ECU.
My assumption is that the 9 wire USB cable is somehow shorting something out to cause the battery drain since the 4 wire cable doesn't do this.
Therefore what I'd like to know us how many pins from the TTL cable are actually used?.
I know there are only 3 wires from the ECU so I would assume only 3 pin's are used on the TTL USB cable but I may be wrong.

My plan is to hopefully make a simpler adapter cable from USB-c male to USB female.

Any information gratefully received
. thanks

[Elliott Hopkins]

Hello, did you ever fix MemsDiag from this point. This is where I'm at, at the minute.

On Wednesday, 10 July 2019 at 23:21:56 UTC+1 sales.e...@gmail.com wrote:

[leopold]

If you can not succed with mems-diag the try this:https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jmp.rovermems