Self Loathing Atheists? Or Are There Good Aspects Of Religion?
sudo
After giving up religion, atheists try giving up something else for Lent
(RNS) What would an “atheist Lent” look like? A group of young nonbelievers are finding out, observing the Christian practice minus its religious context.
Vlad Chituc, 23, stirs Quinoa Tabbouleh near an already-made portobello burger at his apartment in Durham, N.C., Wednesday, March 13, 2013. Chituc, an atheist, is participating in Lent by converting from vegetarian to vegan, something he hopes to continue indefinitely as an act of good morals and good health. RNS photo by Ted Richardson
Download this photo. For questions,contact Sally Morrow.
They have given up alcohol, animal products, and various Internet and cellphone interactions. One has vowed to make a daily Lenten practice of telling those he encounters how important they are to him.
But their observance of the 40-day period in which many Christians abstain from worldly desires in a bid to come closer to God has upset some atheists who say borrowing religious traditions is antithetical to nontheism.
The exercise has also illustrated a divide in the nontheist community – between older atheists who see religion as inherently evil and younger atheists who are more open to interactions with religious belief.
“I really like the idea of Lent,” said Chelsea Link, 23, a Boston-based Humanist who is abstaining from alcohol. “It’s giving yourself a set amount of time to break a bad habit or form a new good one, and that seems like a really healthy practice. But we are not doing it because God told us to; we are doing it because there is a benefit to us.”
The idea of atheist Lent came from Vlad Chituc, a 23-year-old atheist blogger, who was inspired by the Swiss-born Humanist Alain de Botton, whose recent book, “Religion for Atheists,” suggests adapting religious rituals can create community and meaning among nonbelievers.
Vlad Chituc, 23, prepares Quinoa Tabbouleh and a portobello burger at his apartment in Durham, N.C., Wednesday, March 13, 2013. Chituc, an atheist, is participating in Lent by converting from vegetarian to vegan, something he hopes to continue indefinitely as an act of good morals and good health. RNS photo by Ted Richardson
Download this photo. For questions,contact Sally Morrow.
“Religions have been working on how to live as good human beings for thousands of years,” Chituc said. “So it made sense to me that they have figured out some stuff that those of us trying to live good secular lives can learn from.”
Chituc observed his first Lent last year by eating a vegan diet. His success was limited, but he was inspired by the mindfulness of the experience.
“Atheists love to talk about abstract intellectual values like logic and reason,” he said, “but I realized that there were other things I needed to think about and I started being more aware of them.”
This year, Chituc, a lab manager in Durham, N.C., invited several fellow atheist bloggers to join him in observing Lent. A half dozen agreed, and they are tracking the experience on the blogNonProphet Status. All but one are under the age of 25.
Their posts have upset some atheists, including Tom Flynn, executive director of the Council for Secular Humanism. He wrote an online column refuting the idea and calling Lent, “one of the most profoundly anti-humanistic features of Christianity.”
In a telephone interview, Flynn singled out Lent as dangerous because it suggests atonement can be gained by giving something up — like meat on Fridays — instead of by making amends to those who have been wronged. And because atheists are not bound to a liturgical calendar, they can practice abstention any time.
Vlad Chituc, 23, gets ready to eat his Quinoa Tabbouleh and portobello burger, much to the interest of his dog “Toad”, at his apartment in Durham, N.C., Wednesday, March 13, 2013. RNS photo by Ted Richardson
Download this photo. For questions,contact Sally Morrow.
“More broadly, we have to be cautious in borrowing traditions and forms from the churches,” Flynn said. “There is an awful lot in congregational practices that hark back to an earlier pre-democratic, pre-Enlightenment time and that can bring a lot of baggage that is contrary to secular ideals.”
Chituc, meanwhile, is unimpressed with that argument. Instead, he is concerned he might offend religious observers of Lent.
“They might think it is trivializing to say all Lent is about is giving something up,” he said. “It is obviously more than that to them, so I am trying to say we are not trying to capture the meaning of your tradition, we are trying to make the most of our lives, and we have found something meaningful and useful in what you are doing.”
Virginia Kimball, a Catholic theologian at Assumption College in Worcester, Mass., who mentors people in Lenten practices, sees nothing wrong in atheists borrowing Lent. The desire to find meaning in ritual, she said, is a universal human desire.
“I give every credit to these young people who are humanists and atheists because they are sensing that human life is more than just animal processes and that is worthy of the great philosophers,” she said.
Chris Stedman, author of “Faitheist,” a memoir of his journey from evangelical Christianity to atheism, has joined Chituc in observing Lent. He thinks young atheists are more accepting of religious forms and believers than their older counterparts because they have grown up in a more diverse environment than previous generations.
“So it does not surprise (me) when I see people under 30 who identify as atheists and yet are curious about the religious beliefs and practices of their peers,” Stedman said. “I think this is a trend, that we are going to see more interactions between religious believers and atheists and I think we’ll also see more borrowing from the religious traditions.”
Link, the Boston Humanist who’s giving up alcohol, agrees. She said she is distancing herself from organized atheism because of the hostility she feels it exhibits towards religion.
“I think there is definitely a transition going on,” she said. “A lot of younger atheists are saying, ‘I don’t believe in God either, but I don’t understand why you are foaming at the mouth about it.’”
Orson Zedd
On 3/20/13, sudo <sud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> After giving up religion, atheists try giving up something else for
> LentKimberly
> 2013 | 24
> Comments<http://www.religionnews.com/2013/03/18/after-giving-up-religion-atheists-try-giving-up-something-else-for-lent/#comments>
>
>
> 4
>
> (RNS) What would an “atheist Lent” look like? A group of young nonbelievers
>
> are finding out, observing the Christian practice minus its religious
> context.
> [image: Vlad Chituc, 23, stirs Quinoa Tabbouleh near an already-made
> portobello burger at his apartment in Durham, N.C., Wednesday, March 13,
> 2013. Chituc, an atheist, is participating in Lent by converting from
> vegetarian to vegan, something he hopes to continue indefinitely as an act
> of good morals and good health. RNS photo by Ted
>
> ** Show
> caption<http://www.religionnews.com/2013/03/18/after-giving-up-religion-atheists-try-giving-up-something-else-for-lent/#>
> Vlad Chituc, 23, stirs Quinoa Tabbouleh near an already-made portobello
> burger at his apartment in Durham, N.C., Wednesday, March 13, 2013. Chituc,
>
> an atheist, is participating in Lent by converting from vegetarian to
> vegan, something he hopes to continue indefinitely as an act of good morals
>
> and good health. RNS photo by Ted Richardson
>
> ** Download this
> photo<http://archives.religionnews.com/multimedia/photos/rns-ateist-vegan-a>.
>
> For questions,contact Sally Morrow <sally....@religionnews.com>.
> They have given up alcohol, animal products, and various Internet and
> cellphone interactions. One has vowed to make a daily Lenten practice of
> telling those he encounters how important they are to him.
>
> But their observance of the 40-day period in which many Christians abstain
> from worldly desires in a bid to come closer to God has upset some atheists
>
> who say borrowing religious traditions is antithetical to nontheism.
>
> The exercise has also illustrated a divide in the nontheist community –
> between older atheists who see religion as inherently evil and younger
> atheists who are more open to interactions with religious belief.
>
> “I really like the idea of Lent,” said Chelsea Link, 23, a Boston-based
> Humanist who is abstaining from alcohol. “It’s giving yourself a set amount
>
> of time to break a bad habit or form a new good one, and that seems like a
> really healthy practice. But we are not doing it because God told us to; we
>
> are doing it because there is a benefit to us.”
>
> The idea of atheist Lent came from Vlad Chituc, a 23-year-old atheist
> blogger, who was inspired by the Swiss-born Humanist Alain de Botton, whose
>
> recent
> “Religion for Atheists,” suggests adapting religious rituals can create
> community and meaning among nonbelievers.
> [image: Vlad Chituc, 23, prepares Quinoa Tabbouleh and a portobello burger
> at his apartment in Durham, N.C., Wednesday, March 13, 2013. Chituc, an
> atheist, is participating in Lent by converting from vegetarian to vegan,
> something he hopes to continue indefinitely as an act of good morals and
> good health. RNS photo by Ted
>
> ** Show
> caption<http://www.religionnews.com/2013/03/18/after-giving-up-religion-atheists-try-giving-up-something-else-for-lent/#>
> Vlad Chituc, 23, prepares Quinoa Tabbouleh and a portobello burger at his
> apartment in Durham, N.C., Wednesday, March 13, 2013. Chituc, an atheist,
> is participating in Lent by converting from vegetarian to vegan, something
> he hopes to continue indefinitely as an act of good morals and good health.
>
> RNS photo by Ted Richardson
>
> ** Download this
> photo<http://archives.religionnews.com/multimedia/photos/rns-atheist-vegan-b>.
>
> For questions,contact Sally Morrow <sally....@religionnews.com>.
> “Religions have been working on how to live as good human beings for
> thousands of years,” Chituc said. “So it made sense to me that they have
> figured out some stuff that those of us trying to live good secular lives
> can learn from.”
>
> Chituc observed his first Lent last year by eating a vegan diet. His
> success was limited, but he was inspired by the mindfulness of the
> experience.
>
> “Atheists love to talk about abstract intellectual values like logic and
> reason,” he said, “but I realized that there were other things I needed to
> think about and I started being more aware of them.”
>
> This year, Chituc, a lab manager in Durham, N.C., invited several fellow
> atheist bloggers to join him in observing Lent. A half dozen agreed, and
> they are tracking the experience on the blogNonProphet
>
> Their posts have upset some atheists, including Tom Flynn, executive
> director of the Council for Secular
> He wrote an online
> column<http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/religious_humanism_or_something_gone_wild/>
> the idea and calling Lent, “one of the most profoundly anti-humanistic
> features of Christianity.”
>
> In a telephone interview, Flynn singled out Lent as dangerous because it
> suggests atonement can be gained by giving something up — like meat on
> Fridays — instead of by making amends to those who have been wronged. And
> because atheists are not bound to a liturgical calendar, they can practice
> abstention any time.
> [image: Vlad Chituc, 23, gets ready to eat his Quinoa Tabbouleh and
> portobello burger, much to the interest of his dog "Toad", at his apartment
>
> in Durham, N.C., Wednesday, March 13, 2013. RNS photo by Ted
>
> ** Show
> caption<http://www.religionnews.com/2013/03/18/after-giving-up-religion-atheists-try-giving-up-something-else-for-lent/#>
> Vlad Chituc, 23, gets ready to eat his Quinoa Tabbouleh and portobello
> burger, much to the interest of his dog “Toad”, at his apartment in Durham,
>
> N.C., Wednesday, March 13, 2013. RNS photo by Ted Richardson
>
> ** Download this
> photo<http://archives.religionnews.com/multimedia/photos/rns-atheist-vegan-c>.
>
> For questions,contact Sally Morrow <sally....@religionnews.com>.
> “More broadly, we have to be cautious in borrowing traditions and forms
> from the churches,” Flynn said. “There is an awful lot in congregational
> practices that hark back to an earlier pre-democratic, pre-Enlightenment
> time and that can bring a lot of baggage that is contrary to secular
> ideals.”
>
> Chituc, meanwhile, is unimpressed with that argument. Instead, he is
> concerned he might offend religious observers of Lent.
>
> “They might think it is trivializing to say all Lent is about is giving
> something up,” he said. “It is obviously more than that to them, so I am
> trying to say we are not trying to capture the meaning of your tradition,
> we are trying to make the most of our lives, and we have found something
> meaningful and useful in what you are doing.”
>
> Virginia Kimball, a Catholic theologian at Assumption College in Worcester,
>
> Mass., who mentors people in Lenten practices, sees nothing wrong in
> atheists borrowing Lent. The desire to find meaning in ritual, she said, is
>
> a universal human desire.
>
> “I give every credit to these young people who are humanists and atheists
> because they are sensing that human life is more than just animal processes
>
> and that is worthy of the great philosophers,” she said.
>
> Chris Stedman, author of
> memoir of his journey from evangelical Christianity to atheism, has joined
> Chituc in observing Lent. He thinks young atheists are more accepting of
> religious forms and believers than their older counterparts because they
> have grown up in a more diverse environment than previous generations.
>
> “So it does not surprise (me) when I see people under 30 who identify as
> atheists and yet are curious about the religious beliefs and practices of
> their peers,” Stedman said. “I think this is a trend, that we are going to
> see more interactions between religious believers and atheists and I think
> we’ll also see more borrowing from the religious traditions.”
>
> Link, the Boston Humanist who’s giving up alcohol, agrees. She said she is
> distancing herself from organized atheism because of the hostility she
> feels it exhibits towards religion.
>
> “I think there is definitely a transition going on,” she said. “A lot of
> younger atheists are saying, ‘I don’t believe in God either, but I don’t
> understand why you are foaming at the mouth about it.’”
> 1054 184 reddit0
>
>
> 4
>
> Culture<http://www.religionnews.com/category/culture/>
>
> --
> --
> Disclaimer: This MFA Forum is a public site and does not necessarily express
> the official opinion of Memphis Freethought Alliance, Inc. or its members.
> Posters on this forum include MFA members as well as non-members. People
> are encouraged to give their honest opinion about ideas and critique other
> people's ideas and not to attack people personally. Please keep posts open,
> honest, and civil. Please review the the rules and guidelines to this
> forum: http://www.memphisfreethought.com/DiscussionForum.html (copy and
> paste the web address into your browser if necessary)
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>
Fan of Reason
Yackie
MANUEL RAMIREZ
Where did you get that idea? There is nothing wrong with science.
Science brought us the atomic bomb and the drones which America uses
to kill unbelievers all over the world. The only thing that is wrong
is pseudo science like evolution and gravity that directly
contradicts
the Holy Bible.
ALL SCIENCE IS EVIL, AND FROM SATAN! (aka THE EARTH IS FLAT)
Many worthless freaks believe science is fact, while the Bible is a
lie. I find that quite pathetic, since the only people who seem to
come up with the actual 'proof' that science is fact are the
scientists themselves. Well why wouldn't they? They have to protect
their meaningless jobs.
I find that amuzing, since we know the truth. We believe in factual
faith, where as they believe in 'science-fiction'. We are men of God,
while they are losers of science.
Seriously, how are we meant to believe anything some worthless
scientist tells us, when it is clearly a lie and fabrication to
attack
our God. ALL Scientists are in league with Lucifer, their plan to
blast our heads so full of nonsense that we believe more in their far-
out-trash, than God almighty.
Genetics, dinosaurs, men on the moon. All bullshit. For every co-
called fact they can give me, i can dismiss it as fabricated
nonsense.
It's already a well-known-fact that all the moon landings were faked.
Man has never set foot into space, and I would be willing to bet that
nothing else has either. All the pictures from so-called
sattelites ... FAKE, all pictures from other plantes ... FAKE, and
how
can we believe most so-called fossils are truly what they say if
their
so-called carbon dating bullshit comes from these perverting
scientists too? In truth - We can't.
Oh we have all seen the pictures of a cloned sheep. Ha ha. Like all
sheep don't look identical. Prove to me it was cloned, and not just
some slight-of-hand magician's trick to make the masses actually
believe cloning is possible.
So in an effort to prove these pathetic scientists wrong, I set them
a
task. They ask me to prove God exists? Well I asked them to prove to
me the Earth is round, not flat. Prove this to me - NOT with so-
called
'genuine' pictures from 'outerspace', or any of your other science
fiction bullshit.
Because we know that it is flat, and that God lets people 'flip' to
the other side safely.
Leo Alessi
Yackie
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 9:03:58 AM UTC-5, sudo wrote:
