Journal writing
Orson Zedd
Jason
omprem
As for being 'intrinsically motivated', that is called spiritual
enlightenment. You have a long way to go.
Orson Zedd
happened yet, for your information, and it never will. I do, however,
have plans to turn them into my own personal army of freethinkers and
critical thinkers.
Also, intrinsic motivation can be non-spiritual as well. As they said
on Venture Brothers:
Dr. Venture: C'mon, you do this stuff every day!
Dr. Byron Orpheus: But that's different!
Dr. Venture: Why? Because you call it by a different name? Church,
lab. Soul, synapses. Purgatory, computer. Get over yourself!
OZ
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April E. Houser
that OZ is a teacher? People are able to perform in multiple roles. OZ
being a teacher and a freethinker don't have to be related at all. Do
you think that OZ goes into the classroom and tells the students to be
atheist?
Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
April E. Houser
Aeho...@ATT.net
Orson Zedd
test, he said it was because I didn't like him, because I'm an
atheist. I explained to him that a students beliefs has no bearing on
their grade and, in fact, that I didn't grade those tests this time.
Today he gets onto me for saying, "Thank God." "Why do you say that
if you don't believe." Apparently, "Because I can," isn't a good
enough explanation for him.
Maybe he'll never believe that I honestly don't care about his
beliefs. But it's still true.
OZ
Also explained I believe more in Santa Claus than Yahweh, when he
asked why I celebrated Christmas. "More empirical evidence."
April E. Houser
Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
April E. Houser
Aeho...@ATT.net
omprem
'Freethinkers' confuse using the cover of criticism to give vent to
their biases and fears with thinking. Fortunately the rest of the
world does not.
Equating science with spiritual enlightenment is also an oxymoron. It
is an attempt to legitimize the bias, addiction, fear, negativity of
atheists. It is also a cry for help but, alas, atheists, like other
addicts, have to hit bottom before they seek help. Despite falling as
far as you have, you still have some way to go before you hit bottom.
But, that's OK, we are here for you when finally seek help.
Also, in attempting to equate practices of atheism with religious
practices you have confirmed that atheism is a religion. Atheism
follows a well-known negative spiritual path known as the via negativa
in Catholicism and as Jnana Yoga in Hinduism. Now go Google those
terms because, who knows, you might actually learn something.
On Mar 8, 5:03 pm, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not child abuse unless I choose to abuse them. That hasn't
> happened yet, for your information, and it never will. I do, however,
> have plans to turn them into my own personal army of freethinkers and
> critical thinkers.
>
> Also, intrinsic motivation can be non-spiritual as well. As they said
> on Venture Brothers:
> Dr. Venture: C'mon, you do this stuff every day!
> Dr. Byron Orpheus: But that's different!
> Dr. Venture: Why? Because you call it by a different name? Church,
> lab. Soul, synapses. Purgatory, computer. Get over yourself!
>
> OZ
>
omprem
view themselves and their environment. He cuts off choice and
brainwashes his students into his limited world view using his limited
resources.
But you are correct that 'freethinker' and 'teacher' are oxymorons.
'Freethinker' is actually ''parrot'.
On Mar 8, 7:07 pm, "April E. Houser" <aehou...@att.net> wrote:
> What do you consider to be child abuse in this situation? The fact
> that OZ is a teacher? People are able to perform in multiple roles. OZ
> being a teacher and a freethinker don't have to be related at all. Do
> you think that OZ goes into the classroom and tells the students to be
> atheist?
>
> Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
> April E. Houser
> Aehou...@ATT.net
omprem
promote it in your classes. That is a breach of trust and you should
resign immediately.
For a teacher to say that he doesn't care about his student's beliefs
is irresponsible in the extreme and a sure sign of that teacher's
incompetence to teach.
On Mar 8, 7:17 pm, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In fact, I have one student I'll call N.N.. Last time he failed a
> test, he said it was because I didn't like him, because I'm an
> atheist. I explained to him that a students beliefs has no bearing on
> their grade and, in fact, that I didn't grade those tests this time.
>
> Today he gets onto me for saying, "Thank God." "Why do you say that
> if you don't believe." Apparently, "Because I can," isn't a good
> enough explanation for him.
>
> Maybe he'll never believe that I honestly don't care about his
> beliefs. But it's still true.
>
> OZ
>
> Also explained I believe more in Santa Claus than Yahweh, when he
> asked why I celebrated Christmas. "More empirical evidence."
>
> On 3/8/10, April E. Houser <aehou...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > What do you consider to be child abuse in this situation? The fact
> > that OZ is a teacher? People are able to perform in multiple roles. OZ
> > being a teacher and a freethinker don't have to be related at all. Do
> > you think that OZ goes into the classroom and tells the students to be
> > atheist?
>
> > Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
> > April E. Houser
> > Aehou...@ATT.net
Orson Zedd
MemphisBill
On Mar 9, 7:32 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Because they asked. They ask, "Mr. White, are you saved?" I can't lie to
> them. Or I can, but I'm not going to. "Do you go to church?" Again, I'm
> not going to lie to them. It would have been a breach of trust if I lied to
> them and told them I was a believer in whichever particular deity they
> prefered.
>
> It's not child abuse to limit the ways a child can think; it's the only way
> to make any sort of reasonable progress. I can't have my students thinking
> that they can conjugate any verb however they want and that I'll be fine
> with it, because whether I agree with it or not, Grammar has rules that must
> be followed. Procedures that must be maintained. I can easily lower my
> standards to your level and let my students do whatever they want, but when
> that state test rolls around and they all flunk it, that's a criticism of my
> abilities as a teacher to actually teach the material. Now you're free to
> use the passive voice in your papers all the time, but I will count off
> because I'm trying to teach you the active voice.
>
> Also, get back on topic. It's fine and dandy if you want to troll us, but
> this is not the "criticize Orson Zedd topic". Just look around and you'll
> find plenty of those.
>
> OZ
>
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Orson Zedd
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MemphisBill
with something else.
He can keep this up for years.
On Mar 9, 10:27 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hadn't realized he wasn't going to give me empirical evidence to support his
> positions at the time. And I'd have probably responded anyway, as that was
> blatant character assassination.
>
> OZ
>
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Orson Zedd
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MemphisBill
On Mar 9, 10:54 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, if he's going to resort to character assassination, I move for his
> immediate bannination.
>
> OZ
>
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MemphisBill
completely.
omprem
On Mar 9, 8:32 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Because they asked. They ask, "Mr. White, are you saved?" I can't lie to
> them. Or I can, but I'm not going to. "Do you go to church?" Again, I'm
> not going to lie to them. It would have been a breach of trust if I lied to
> them and told them I was a believer in whichever particular deity they
> prefered.
>
> It's not child abuse to limit the ways a child can think; it's the only way
> to make any sort of reasonable progress. I can't have my students thinking
> that they can conjugate any verb however they want and that I'll be fine
> with it, because whether I agree with it or not, Grammar has rules that must
> be followed. Procedures that must be maintained. I can easily lower my
> standards to your level and let my students do whatever they want, but when
> that state test rolls around and they all flunk it, that's a criticism of my
> abilities as a teacher to actually teach the material. Now you're free to
> use the passive voice in your papers all the time, but I will count off
> because I'm trying to teach you the active voice.
>
> Also, get back on topic. It's fine and dandy if you want to troll us, but
> this is not the "criticize Orson Zedd topic". Just look around and you'll
> find plenty of those.
>
> OZ
>
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> > > >> .
> > > >> For more options, visit this group at
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> > > >> .
>
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omprem
conversation as see if they approved of your proselytizing students on
behalf of atheism. Care to provide that information.
It is a strawman logical error when you change the content of the
discussion from from abusing your position of trust to impose a
religious viewpoint on your students to a discussion of grammatical
rules. I don't think promoting atheism is a part of the state tests.
As for your assertion that I was off topic that too is a strawman
fallacy because your abuse of your students' trust came up in the
conversation.
You're not very good at this logic thingy, are you?
Now, are you going have the courage of your so-called convictions and
give me the name and address of your school board/district or are you
going to try to slink back into the dark cave of atheism and hope to
avoid discovery.
On Mar 9, 8:32 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Because they asked. They ask, "Mr. White, are you saved?" I can't lie to
> them. Or I can, but I'm not going to. "Do you go to church?" Again, I'm
> not going to lie to them. It would have been a breach of trust if I lied to
> them and told them I was a believer in whichever particular deity they
> prefered.
>
> It's not child abuse to limit the ways a child can think; it's the only way
> to make any sort of reasonable progress. I can't have my students thinking
> that they can conjugate any verb however they want and that I'll be fine
> with it, because whether I agree with it or not, Grammar has rules that must
> be followed. Procedures that must be maintained. I can easily lower my
> standards to your level and let my students do whatever they want, but when
> that state test rolls around and they all flunk it, that's a criticism of my
> abilities as a teacher to actually teach the material. Now you're free to
> use the passive voice in your papers all the time, but I will count off
> because I'm trying to teach you the active voice.
>
> Also, get back on topic. It's fine and dandy if you want to troll us, but
> this is not the "criticize Orson Zedd topic". Just look around and you'll
> find plenty of those.
>
> OZ
>
> > > >> memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > > >> .
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omprem
omprem
classroom. Your school board/district would be interested to hear
about that. Have you asked their permission? Or are you just trying to
intimidate young minds?
On Mar 9, 11:27 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hadn't realized he wasn't going to give me empirical evidence to support his
> positions at the time. And I'd have probably responded anyway, as that was
> blatant character assassination.
>
> OZ
>
> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > > >> .
> > > > > >> For more options, visit this group at
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> > > > > >> .
>
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Liz P
How's this for an ad hominen attack: What a freakin' asshole y'all!
Orson Zedd <ninte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>hadn't realized he wasn't going to give me empirical evidence to support his
>positions at the time. And I'd have probably responded anyway, as that was
>blatant character assassination.
>
>OZ
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com.
Liz P
omprem <ompr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >> .
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>> > > >> .
>>
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Clogtowner
preaches atheism. He simply stated that he answered his students
honestly, and I respect him for that. When this topic has crept into
my teaching in the past my answer has been that the question is not
relevant to the subject matter and I'll chat with anyone about such
matters in a social environment off campus. Of course my students were
all much older than OZ'
If a student asked a teacher in the most religious State known to man
"are you saved," and the teacher answered "yes," would that be a
breach of ethics?
Human...@aol.com
If I knew which school board/district you work for I would send this
conversation as see if they approved of your proselytizing students on
behalf of atheism. Care to provide that information.
It is a strawman logical error when you change the content of the
discussion from from abusing your position of trust to impose a
religious viewpoint on your students to a discussion of grammatical
rules. I don't think promoting atheism is a part of the state tests.
As for your assertion that I was off topic that too is a strawman
fallacy because your abuse of your students' trust came up in the
conversation.
You're not very good at this logic thingy, are you?
Now, are you going have the courage of your so-called convictions and
give me the name and address of your school board/district or are you
going to try to slink back into the dark cave of atheism and hope to
avoid discovery.
> > > >> .
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Orson Zedd
because frankly, it's none of your godsdamn business. I'm not going
to fall for the Marty McFly gambit because I don't see what's to be
gained. You're amazingly dense, which is fine. I like arguing with
the dense, it makes things interesting. But you're on some vendetta.
Some mission from some arcane nether god. Frankly, I'm not playing
this game. Call me a coward or any other names you can think of.
Insult me and my position and my mother if you want. Fact is I don't
care about you.
So, tl;dr, fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
OZ
Clogtowner
least.
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>
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> > > > > To post to this group, send email to
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> memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughta lliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>> > .
MemphisBill
preaches atheism."
Of course not. Omprem is always saying stuff about us that isn't
true. He is not here to argue with us in good faith. He is here to be
destructive. And it is working. He pisses people off. That is not what
this board is for. Every time someone writes back to him, it just
encourages him. He is like that entity on the first Star Trek that fed
off of negative energy. That is Omprem.
MemphisBill
every minute of it.
On Mar 9, 4:04 pm, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Omprem, I'm not going to give you the information of my employer,
> because frankly, it's none of your godsdamn business. I'm not going
> to fall for the Marty McFly gambit because I don't see what's to be
> gained. You're amazingly dense, which is fine. I like arguing with
> the dense, it makes things interesting. But you're on some vendetta.
> Some mission from some arcane nether god. Frankly, I'm not playing
> this game. Call me a coward or any other names you can think of.
> Insult me and my position and my mother if you want. Fact is I don't
> care about you.
>
> So, tl;dr, fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
>
> OZ
>
Orson Zedd
OZ
MemphisBill
On Mar 9, 6:50 pm, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> He's the very definition of sociopath.
>
> OZ
>
omprem
Do be shy? Stand up for your beliefs.
On Mar 9, 11:27 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hadn't realized he wasn't going to give me empirical evidence to support his
> positions at the time. And I'd have probably responded anyway, as that was
> blatant character assassination.
>
> OZ
>
> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > > >> .
> > > > > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en
> > > > > >> .
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to
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> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > .
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>
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> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
omprem
board have in him to teach what is on the curriculum and not teach a
bunch of personal, messy, and hateful bias that is going on in his
head.
Jason
We live in the South. The line separating church and state is blurred
in this area. Teachers in public schools give out Jesus pamphlets and
so forth in public schools and it's condoned. In one case, a public
elementary school teacher asked the class to raise their hands if they
believed in God knowing that there was one child of an atheist family
in the classroom. That is not very nice, in my opinion. And I don't
think that it would be nice vice versa.
I was educated in Pennsylvania and California. The separation line is
much clearer in these regions of the United States and such
theological behavior in the public schools from teachers is not nearly
as tolerated probably due to the greater religious diversity. Private
schools in the US can teach whatever they want because these private
school forgo public funding.
My stance? I do not think that theological issues should be discussed
by the teachers. And children can pray in the classrooms but not be
lead or encourage by a public employee; that is the current law. Now
I do think that learning about the world and universe is important.
Therefore, I do object when Southern teachers refute basic geology or
students state that astronomy is not a real science because it
conflicts with their religious concept of a 6,000 year old earth.
When I did a talk at the Evangelical Christian School (private) in
Cordova, Tennessee, I asked some students and teachers approximately
how many students believed that the earth was less than 10,000 years
old. The students and teachers both claimed that the overwhelming
majority of the 600+ students in attendence believed that the earth is
approximately 6,000 to 10,000 years old. The head of the science
program also believed this and also that evolution is a farce.
I think that public (not private) school teachers should keep their
theology (atheism, New Ageism, Christianity, Judiaism, etc) to
themselves and teach a secular curriculum. If the secular curriculum
conflicts with their respective theology, the secular concept should
win by default. For example, if a Jainist protests about young
earthers believing that the earth is a mere 4.5 billion years old and
wants teachers to say that the earth has existed for eternity, we
should teach science--4.5 billion year old earth--and not that the
earth always existed and was never created.
Jason
> > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>> > > >> .
> > > > > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en
> > > > > >> .
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>
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>
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>
> > > > .
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>
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> > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jason
religious sectors who do their very best to keep their theology out of
the classroom even in the South. Often you just have an over
theologically zealous teacher(s)whose behavior is condoned but, yes,
many times the principal or school administrators do crack down on
proselytizing. I just wished that they would do it more
consistently.
> > > To post to this- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
April E. Houser
his religious beliefs to the student, would you consider it child
abuse as well? I ask because that also meets the criteria you listed
(not on the ciriculum and of a personal nature)
Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
April E. Houser
Aeho...@ATT.net
Clogtowner
On Mar 10, 12:32 pm, "April E. Houser" <aehou...@att.net> wrote:
> I do have a question Omprem. If OZ was a religionist, and OZ spoke of
> his religious beliefs to the student, would you consider it child
> abuse as well? I ask because that also meets the criteria you listed
> (not on the ciriculum and of a personal nature)
>
> Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
> April E. Houser
> Aehou...@ATT.net
Orson Zedd
Mississippi. It's a <b>Business</b> and Technical School.
OZ
P.S. I don't have to tell you where I live to stand up for my beliefs.
I'm not going to kowtow to some religious terrorist.
> memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com.
omprem
clear thinking over an extended period. Of course, that is not to say
that you are correct throughout. I particularly liked the bit about
atheism as a religion.
But you are wrong about Jains. Not only would they would not be
bothered with such nonsense they do not believe that the earth has
existed for eternity not that it was never created. They believe in a
recurring Big Bang theory of cosmogony with 311 trillion years of
expansion of the universe followed by 311 trillion years of
contraction followed by 311 trillion years of expansion, etc.
> ...
>
> read more »
omprem
not a conscientious teacher, that he is a theological zealot, and that
administrators should crack down on him. I am in total agreement with
you.
> ...
>
> read more »
omprem
On Mar 10, 1:32 pm, "April E. Houser" <aehou...@att.net> wrote:
> I do have a question Omprem. If OZ was a religionist, and OZ spoke of
> his religious beliefs to the student, would you consider it child
> abuse as well? I ask because that also meets the criteria you listed
> (not on the ciriculum and of a personal nature)
>
> Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
> April E. Houser
> Aehou...@ATT.net
omprem
on students. Thanks for the info.
On Mar 10, 2:43 pm, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually Omprem, I teach in the <b>Nunya</b> County School District in
> Mississippi. It's a <b>Business</b> and Technical School.
>
> OZ
>
> P.S. I don't have to tell you where I live to stand up for my beliefs.
> I'm not going to kowtow to some religious terrorist.
>
omprem
Or, are you afraid to stand up for your beliefs.
On Mar 10, 2:43 pm, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually Omprem, I teach in the <b>Nunya</b> County School District in
> Mississippi. It's a <b>Business</b> and Technical School.
>
> OZ
>
> P.S. I don't have to tell you where I live to stand up for my beliefs.
> I'm not going to kowtow to some religious terrorist.
>
Orson Zedd
Omprem, go. Leave. Your shenanigans are no long welcome here.
Clearly you seem to believe that teachers being human is a terrible,
terrible thing, so why don't you freeze yourself in a glacier and thaw
yourself out in five hundred years after the technological singularity
hits, so that all the teachers are robots?
So, If you don't mind to terribly, I've got a class in five minutes at
Nunya Business and Technical School.
OZ
Liz P
omprem <ompr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>If I knew which school board/district you work for I would send this
>conversation as see if they approved of your proselytizing students on
>behalf of atheism. Care to provide that information.
>
>It is a strawman logical error when you change the content of the
>discussion from from abusing your position of trust to impose a
>religious viewpoint on your students to a discussion of grammatical
>rules. I don't think promoting atheism is a part of the state tests.
>
>As for your assertion that I was off topic that too is a strawman
>fallacy because your abuse of your students' trust came up in the
>conversation.
>
>You're not very good at this logic thingy, are you?
>
>Now, are you going have the courage of your so-called convictions and
>give me the name and address of your school board/district or are you
>going to try to slink back into the dark cave of atheism and hope to
>avoid discovery.
>
>
>> > > >> .
>> > > >> For more options, visit this group at
>> > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en
>> > > >> .
>>
>> > > > --
>> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups
>> > > > "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.
>> > > > To post to this group, send email to
>> > > > memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com.
>> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > > > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
Liz P
omprem <ompr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>It was your admission that you attempt to preach atheism in the
>classroom. Your school board/district would be interested to hear
>about that. Have you asked their permission? Or are you just trying to
>intimidate young minds?
>
>On Mar 9, 11:27 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hadn't realized he wasn't going to give me empirical evidence to support his
>> positions at the time. And I'd have probably responded anyway, as that was
>> blatant character assassination.
>>
>> OZ
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, MemphisBill <runyanB...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Why are you talking to the troll?
>>
>> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>>
>> > > > > >> .
>> > > > > >> For more options, visit this group at
>> > > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en
>> > > > > >> .
>>
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > > > Groups
>> > > > > > "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.
>> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to
>> > > > > > memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com.
>> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > > > > > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>>
>> > > > .
>> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
>> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en.
>>
>> > > > --
>> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups
>> > > > "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.
>> > > > To post to this group, send email to
>> > > > memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com.
>> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > > > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
Liz P
Orson Zedd <ninte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Omprem, I'm not going to give you the information of my employer,
>because frankly, it's none of your godsdamn business. I'm not going
>to fall for the Marty McFly gambit because I don't see what's to be
>gained. You're amazingly dense, which is fine. I like arguing with
>the dense, it makes things interesting. But you're on some vendetta.
>Some mission from some arcane nether god. Frankly, I'm not playing
>this game. Call me a coward or any other names you can think of.
>Insult me and my position and my mother if you want. Fact is I don't
>care about you.
>
>So, tl;dr, fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
>
>OZ
>
>On 3/9/10, Human...@aol.com <Human...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Ad Baculum threats should not be tolerated on this board. When someone
>> threatens someone's career that crosses a line.
>>
>> J.
>>
>>
>> If I knew which school board/district you work for I would send this
>> conversation as see if they approved of your proselytizing students on
>> behalf of atheism. Care to provide that information.
>>
>> It is a strawman logical error when you change the content of the
>> discussion from from abusing your position of trust to impose a
>> religious viewpoint on your students to a discussion of grammatical
>> rules. I don't think promoting atheism is a part of the state tests.
>>
>> As for your assertion that I was off topic that too is a strawman
>> fallacy because your abuse of your students' trust came up in the
>> conversation.
>>
>> You're not very good at this logic thingy, are you?
>>
>> Now, are you going have the courage of your so-called convictions and
>> give me the name and address of your school board/district or are you
>> going to try to slink back into the dark cave of atheism and hope to
>> avoid discovery.
>>
>>
>>> > > >> .
>>> > > >> For more options, visit this group at
>>> > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en
>>> > > >> .
>>>
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> > Groups
>>> > > > "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.
>>> > > > To post to this group, send email to
>>> > > > memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> > > >
>> memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
April E. Houser
make for interesting study and dissection? If so, I seriously doubt it
will reveal anything extraordinary or new, because the biological mass
of the brain isn't the 'problem'. It is the mind.
Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
April E. Houser
Aeho...@ATT.net
omprem
the law by teaching atheism in class. If you have not already stopped
doing that, I remind you that it is easy to trace your location by the
proper authorities if they so choose and I choose to inform them.
On Mar 11, 11:07 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *facepalm*
>
> Omprem, go. Leave. Your shenanigans are no long welcome here.
> Clearly you seem to believe that teachers being human is a terrible,
> terrible thing, so why don't you freeze yourself in a glacier and thaw
> yourself out in five hundred years after the technological singularity
> hits, so that all the teachers are robots?
>
> So, If you don't mind to terribly, I've got a class in five minutes at
> Nunya Business and Technical School.
>
> OZ
>
> ...
>
> read more »
omprem
the one you already have and stop relying on your bias to propel you
through life.
On Mar 9, 9:42 pm, Liz P <epurkra...@comcast.net> wrote:
> You're incredible. When you die can I have your brain?
>
omprem
that you realize that the mind is different from the brain. You are
light years ahead of most of the atheists here in just that bit of
knowledge alone.
On Mar 12, 2:56 pm, "April E. Houser" <aehou...@att.net> wrote:
> Liz- are you asking Omprem for his/her brain because you think it will
> make for interesting study and dissection? If so, I seriously doubt it
> will reveal anything extraordinary or new, because the biological mass
> of the brain isn't the 'problem'. It is the mind.
>
> Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
> April E. Houser
> Aehou...@ATT.net
>
> On Mar 9, 2010, at 8:42 PM, Liz P <epurkra...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > You're incredible. When you die can I have your brain?
>
Orson Zedd
OZ
Clogtowner
it found in a different location - perhaps a cell?
Liz P
Orson Zedd <ninte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> > > > > > Donate, Recycle, Volunteer, and Vote,
>> > >> >> > > > > > April E. Houser
>> > >> >> > > > > > Aehou...@ATT.net
>> >
>> > >> >> > > > > > On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:44 PM, omprem <omprem...@gmail.com>
>> > >> >> > > > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > >> >> > > > > >> You're a teacher? Isn't that child abuse?
>> >
>> > >> >> > > > > >> As for being 'intrinsically motivated', that is called
>> > >> >> > > > > >> spiritual
>> > >> >> > > > > >> enlightenment. You have a long way to go.
>> >
>> > >> >> > > > > >> On Mar 8, 9:04 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com>
>> > >> >> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> <memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > >> >> > > > > >> .
>> > >> >> > > > > >> For more options, visit this group at
>> > >> >> > > > > >>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en
>> > >> >> > > > > >> .
>> >
>> > >> >> > > > > > --
>> > >> >> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to
>> the
>> > >> >> > > > > > Google
>> > >> >> > > > Groups
>> > >> >> > > > > > "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.
>> > >> >> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to
>> > >> >> > > > > > memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com.
>> > >> >> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > >> >> > > > > > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> >
>> > >> >> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> <memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > >> >> > > > .
>> > >> >> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
>> > >> >> > > > > >
>> http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en.
>> >
>> > >> >> > > > --
>> > >> >> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> > >> >> > > > Google
>> > >> >> > Groups
>> > >> >> > > > "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.
>> > >> >> > > > To post to this group, send email to
>> > >> >> > > > memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com.
>> > >> >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > >> >> > > > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> >
>> > >> >> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> <memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>> > ...
>> >
>> > read more »
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Cubicle Smasher
answer this question. That will not prevent me from guessing that he
does not have what I consider a reasonable answer to this question.
The reason I am making this guess is that it seems to me that if
omprem had a reasonable answer (as I do) then he would not be carrying
on in what I interpret to be a hostile manner.
Now for my answer as to how mind differs from brain. The brain is an
organ that exists in "higher" animals that we can observe with our
senses and talk about with concepts which we can directly observe in
our conscious minds (at least my mind). Our own conscious mind is
something that we can directly observe as the boundry of our
conscioness. We can hold a concept of "brain" in our conscious mind.
We have a hard time holding a concept of conscioussness in out
consciouss minds (at least I do). Therefore some people are more
comfortable talking about brains rather than minds, even though our
concept of brains is actually very hazy. Because we can see a brain,
at least the exposed surface of a brain and also whatever photos can
be generated by car scans and other high tech equipment we think we
know a lot about it. However, if we take the position that brain gives
rise to consciouss mind, which may well be true, then we must admit
our ignorance of brain, because as far as I know, nobody yet knows how
this occurs. The answer that some people take is to ignore mind, which
seems silly to me because for me mind is a phenomenon that I can
observe directly. Another approach that is probably just as wrong
headed, but for some reason bothers me less is to say that the mind
has an existance seperate from the brain. In any case brain and mind
are useful words but they tend to get some people all riled up. I'd
like to see what is going on in people's brains when they get agitated
by someone holding a different view in the mind/brain discussion. I'd
also like to here them explain why they mind so much that others have
a different view on this matter. What is going in in their minds is
what I would like to have them explain to me.
> > > >>> be fine- Hide quoted text -
Clogtowner
as I do - I had a vision of a washing machine. That is not something I
usually encounter or think about.
I extract one sentence from your post: "Another approach that is
probably just as wrong
headed, but for some reason bothers me less is to say that the mind
If that were true, could the mind exist without the brain?
Cubicle Smasher
from which the complex minds of complex brains are built.
Another is possibilty is that pointed to by this statement by Willaim
Blake, which can mean many different things: Man has no Body distinct
from his Soul; for that called Body is a portion of Soul discerned by
the five Senses, the chief inlets of Soul in this age.
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Clogtowner
have heard that elsewhere!
Cubicle Smasher
other particles have minds.
Clogtowner
Human...@aol.com
Hi y'all - I just picked a bogey - it is really upset!
Orson Zedd
OZ
Cubicle Smasher
> Then aren't you just redefining what a mind is?
Perhaps or perhaps I am just asking you think about your definition of
what a mind is. Perhaps there is more than one useful definition of
mind or perhaps you possess the one true God given absolute definition
of mind and can share it with us. Then people will no longer need to
think hard about such matters inorder to make scientific advances.
Perhaps you would like to read the following. Then again maybe not.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/#4.3
4.3 Intrinsic Nature Arguments
Another possible argument for panpsychism is neither genetic nor
analogical but instead depends on the idea that every actual thing, or
kind of thing, must have an intrinsic nature. The objects studied by
physics, it is claimed, are described in purely dispositional terms.
That is, while an electron, for example, is said to possess “spin”,
all this amounts to is that the electron has certain dispositions to
behave in certain ways under certain circumstances. It is arguable
that dispositions must be grounded in some intrinsic, non-
dispositional attributes, but we have no conception whatsoever of what
the intrinsic nature of matter might be. In fact, the only intrinsic
nature with which we are familiar is consciousness itself. The
qualities of conscious experience (to take simply sensory experience:
the smell of a rose, the taste of a strawberry, etc.) seem not to be
reducible to relations amongst non-experiential states nor entirely
specifiable without remainder in terms of their causal powers to
produce behavior (and other mental states). They seem instead to
possess (or be) intrinsic and irreducible characteristics. If this is
the only idea of intrinsic nature we possess, and matter must be
assigned some intrinsic nature, it seems that matter must be granted a
mentalistic intrinsic nature. The core idea of this argument can be
traced back to Leibniz who felt forced to ascribe mentalistic
attributes to his monads as the only possible feature which could make
intelligible the active forces that seemed to be required in an
adequate physics, and which finally laid to rest the dream of a purely
mechanical world view. In his discussion of this difficulty, Whitehead
describes all “modern cosmologies” as having to admit a “mysterious
reality in the background, intrinsically unknowable” (1933/1967, p.
133) and notes that Leibniz “explained what it must be like to be an
atom” (1933/1967, p. 132). See Sprigge (1983) for a defense of this
argument within an extended discussion of the virtues of panpsychism
(for another brief summary of the argument see Sprigge 1999). Another,
less idealist, version of the argument is developed in Lockwood
(1991), based upon ideas taken from Russell's later philosophy,
married to an interpretation of quantum physics. Although far from
demonstrative this is, in the words of Timothy Sprigge (1999), “a
hypothesis worth exploring as the only alternative to saying that
matter is unknowable in its inner essence, and as likely also to cast
light on the mind-body or mind-brain relationship.” The currently most
extensive discussion of this form of argument in favor of panpsychism,
based upon a critique of the conception of causation, can be found in
Rosenberg (2005).
Still, one obvious reply to this argument is to bite the bullet of
unknowability and accept that the intrinsic nature of matter is either
unknown or even essentially unknowable. Belief in such irremediable
ignorance would seem neither to entail panpsychism nor to be
incoherent, and many might prefer it to panpsychism.
However, recently several philosophers have made remarks somewhat
reminiscent of this argument. For example, Galen Strawson has argued
for a revised conception of materialism and remarks that “the
experiential considered specifically as such—the portion of reality we
have to do with when we consider experiences specifically and solely
in respect of the experiential character they have for those who have
them as they have them—that ‘just is’ physical” (1997/1999, p. 7).
Strawson hints that only a “revolutionary development” in physics
would allow consciousness to be “discerned and described” by that
science. The idea that a revolutionary change in physics may be
necessitated by the problem of consciousness is endorsed, suggested or
at least hinted at by several distinguished thinkers, including Roger
Penrose (1989), John Searle (1991, pp. 123-4), Thomas Nagel (1979,
1986, 1999) and Noam Chomsky (1999; see the remarks about unification
and revision on p. 82 for example). Suggestive as these thoughts may
be, it only leaves a gap into which the wedge of panpsychism might be
inserted. What reason have we to suppose that the hoped for revolution
in our understanding of matter at the most fundamental level will
involve ascribing essentially mentalistic properties to it? The
panpsychist's hope lies in the thought that any modification of our
conception of the physical that does not incorporate mind will leave
us in an essentially unchanged position, with no explanation of how
consciousness emerges from the radically non-mental physical elements
of the world. We have seen that this argument has been bruited since
at least the time of the Presocratics and it has often led
emergentists to reconsider their position when the problem of
consciousness is directly considered (it is this worry that probably
explains why Morgan, a radical emergentist, retreated into a
Spinozistic parallelism of mind and matter; see Morgan 1923, p. 32).
This leads to the final consideration in favor of panpsychism to be
considered here, which is a sort of methodological argument.
Panpsychism enjoys a metaphysical advantage in that it avoids the
difficulties of emergentism, which are greater than is generally
thought. Not only is there a problem simply in accounting for the
emergence of something so distinctive as consciousness from mere
matter, it is surprisingly difficult to articulate a form of
emergentism that does not threaten to make the emergent features
causally impotent or epiphenomenal. This is not the place to discuss
the difficulties of all the varieties of emergentism, but they seem
serious.
On Mar 12, 10:00 pm, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Then aren't you just redefining what a mind is?
>
> OZ
>
> > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
Clogtowner
prove it later today when we meet.
> > > > > > > headed, but for some reason bothers me less is...
>
> read more »
Orson Zedd
OZ
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com.
Cubicle Smasher
On Mar 13, 8:50 am, Clogtowner <clogtow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi y'all - my philosopher is better than your philosopher and I'll
> prove it later today when we meet.
Well I like my philosopher better because I agree with his opinion.
> > > > > > > > know a lot about it. However, if we take the position that- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
Cubicle Smasher
It might
> help us to think of some sort of existential self that exists outside our
> bodies and that serves to give our collective cells an identity, but it's
> really an illusion. A useful illusion and one we've evolved to understand,
> but an illusion....
>
psychological definition of illusion
Author: Robert I. Reynolds a
Affiliation: a Division of Social Sciences, Fordham University,
Lincoln Center, New York, NY, U.S.A.
DOI: 10.1080/09515088808572940
Publication Frequency: 6 issues per year
Published in: Philosophical Psychology, Volume 1, Issue 2 1988 ,
pages 217 - 223
Subjects: Philosophy of Psychology; Psychological Science;
Abstract
The psychological concept of illusion is defined as a process
involving an interaction of logical and empirical considerations.
Common usage suggests that an illusion is a discrepancy between one's
awareness and some stimulus. Following preliminary definitions of
classes of stimuli, five definitions of illusion are considered, based
upon the possible discrepancies between awareness and a stimulus. It
is found that each of these definitions fails to make important
distinctions, even to the point of equating all illusory and
perceptual phenomena. This dilemma is resolved by redefining illusion
without reference to truth or falsity, but relative to the functioning
of a given perceptual system under different conditions. The
definition accepted as best is 'a discrepancy between one's
perceptions of an object or event observed under different
conditions'. Conditions may differ in terms of stimulus exposure,
stimulus context, or experiental context. The philosophical and
psychological implications are discussed of accepting a definition of
illusion not based on a discrepancy between awareness and a
stimulus.
On Mar 13, 8:56 pm, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Simply the mind is the brain is the mind. They're the same thing. It might
> help us to think of some sort of existential self that exists outside our
> bodies and that serves to give our collective cells an identity, but it's
> really an illusion. A useful illusion and one we've evolved to understand,
> but an illusion....
>
> read more »
>
> OZ
> > > > > > > > concept of brains is- Hide quoted text -
Cubicle Smasher
> Hi y'all - my philosopher is better than your philosopher and I'll
> prove it later today when we meet.
By the way, I am looking forward to getting that John Searle series of
lectures form you.
> > > > > > > > know a lot about it. However, if we take the position that- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
Clogtowner
> > > > > > > > > conscioness. We can hold a concept of...
>
> read more »
omprem
that you understand it and (2) that it is germane to the topic, could
you restate these postings in your own words so that we know if you
know what you are talking about?
> ...
>
> read more »
omprem
willingness to move beyond what passes for knowledge in the atheists
fraternity and actually try to learn. Good luck exploring the unknown
possibilities of existence.
omprem
incompetents to Dr. Candace Pert's 1997 book, Molecules of Emotion.
omprem
On Mar 13, 12:00 am, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Then aren't you just redefining what a mind is?
>
> OZ
>
> > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
omprem
The brain is not the mind.
On Mar 13, 10:56 pm, Orson Zedd <nintenfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Simply the mind is the brain is the mind. They're the same thing. It might
> help us to think of some sort of existential self that exists outside our
> bodies and that serves to give our collective cells an identity, but it's
> really an illusion. A useful illusion and one we've evolved to understand,
> but an illusion.
>
> OZ
>
> ...
>
> read more »
omprem
year undergrad learning about the history of psychological
bafflegab).
> ...
>
> read more »
omprem
data, and your ego.
But, hey, have a nice day.
> ...
>
> read more »
Clogtowner
logically (if that is permitted.) The mind is in every cell - given.
The brain is composed of cells - given? The mind is not in the
brain??????????????????
> > > > > > > > > something...
>
> read more »
omprem
a logical error). The given is that every cell has consciousness. You
jumped from that to 'the mind' is in every cell but you have not
proven that 'the mind' is cellular consciousness or that 'the mind' in
its totality is in every cell. In addition, you have to attempted to
slip back into the idea that 'mind' is in the brain by eliminating
other non-neural cells that you had previously talked about.
Very disingenuous of you. Naughty boy.
> ...
>
> read more »
Clogtowner
consciousness - I'll remember that.
Let's start again:
Given: the consciousness is in every cell. Given the brain is composed
of cells. Ergo, the consciousness is in the brain. Question - is the
mind in the brain too?
> > > > > > > > > > as I do - I had a vision of a washing machine. That is not...
>
> read more »
Human...@aol.com
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omprem
> ...
>
> read more »
Clogtowner
questions you can't answer. Disregard logic because it doesn't fit
your flim flam. Practice duplicity whenever.
I'm beginning to think I'm wasting my time. If you would make an
honest attempt to respond to points, I would be happy to continue but
I think I'm nearing the end of my tether. I'm finding you beneath
debate.
> > > > > > > > > On Mar 12, 9:12 pm, Clogtowner <clogtow...@gmail.com>...
>
> read more »
omprem
then misuse that notion to promote your original theory of brain =
mind. It is bait and switch legerdemain and it is a logical fallacy.
Oh yes, when the atheist finds his illogic and factual errors being
identified constantly he resorts to denial in an effort to avoid
having to admit ignorance but forgets that the evidence is there for
all the world to see. What's next? Personal attack?
> ...
>
> read more »
Clogtowner
I will continue this thread.
> > > > > > > > > consciousness is directly considered...
>
> read more »