Belief in God
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Introduction
At the heart of Islam lies belief in God.
The core of the Islamic creed is bearing witness to the phrase, La illaha illa Allah, "There is no true deity deserving worship but God." The testimony to this belief, called tawhid, is the axis around which all Islam revolves. Moreover, it is the first of the two testimonies by which a person becomes a Muslim. Striving after the realization of that oneness, or tawhid, is the core of Islamic life.
For many non-Muslims, the term Allah, the Arabic name of God, refers to some distant and strange deity worshipped by the Arabs. Some even think it to be some pagan "moon-god". However, in Arabic, the word Allah means the One True God. Even, Arabic speaking Jews and Christians refer to the Supreme Being as Allah.
Finding God
Western philosophers, Eastern mystics as well as today’s scientists attempt to reach God in their own way. Mystics teach of a God who is found through spiritual experiences, a God who is part of the world and resides within His creation. The philosophers seek God through pure reason and often speak of a God as a detached Watch-Maker with no interest in His creation. A group of philosophers teach agnosticism, an ideology that holds that one can neither prove nor disprove God's existence. Practically speaking, an agnostic asserts he must be able to perceive God directly in order to have faith. God has said:
"And those who are devoid of knowledge say: ‘Why does not God speak unto us or why is not a [miraculous] sign shown to us?’ So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are all alike..." (Quran 2:118)
The argument is nothing new; people in the past and present have raised the same objection.
According to Islam, the correct way of finding God is through the preserved teachings of the prophets. Islam maintains that the prophets were sent by God Himself throughout the ages to guide human beings to Him. God says in the Holy Quran that the correct path to belief is to reflect upon His signs, which point to Him:
"…Indeed, We have made all the signs manifest unto people who are endowed with inner certainty." (Quran 2:118)
Mention of God’s handiwork occurs often in the Quran as the locus of divine revelation. Anyone who sees the natural world in all its wonder with open eyes and an open heart will see the unmistakable signs of the Creator.
"Say: Go all over the earth and behold how [wondrously] He has created [man] in the first instance: and thus, too, will God bring into being your second life – for, verily, God has power to will anything." (Quran 20:29)
God’s handiwork is also present within the individual:
"And on earth there are signs [of God’s existence, visible] to all who are endowed with inner certainty, just as [there are signs thereof] within your own selves: can you not, then see?" (Quran 51:20-21)
The beauty and complexity of our universe. The Cone Nebula pictured by NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope. (AP Photo/NASA)
la3111
Robert
Mark Twain
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wed wed
Hello Robert And Leo Alessi
Accept my regards
Please watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4kn25BjqOk
Does God Exist?
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Matt Germany
Does god exist?
No.
Hope that cleared things up for you.
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Martin Atkins
I have also heard from Hindus and other religions that their religious scriptures support scientific claims.
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la3111
wed...@gmail.com
The idea of self-evident truths are accepted by all. Take science for example: science takes the world’s reality as a self-evident truth; it believes that the world is real. In other words, the physical world is separate and external from our minds and our thoughts.
So you may be thinking, ‘I believe that the real world is real, as I can touch and feel it. I believe the world is real because other people also say that the world is as tangible to them as it is to me.’
However, this doesn’t prove anything. Touching and feeling something doesn’t prove that what you touch and feel is external to your mind. The thinking and feeling could simply be happening by the workings of your brain. Consider this; maybe your brain is in a jar on the Moon. There is an alien who has placed probes in it, who is making you think and feel what you’re feeling right now.
You don’t actually have substantial evidence for the reality of the world you experience. Evidence based on experience is unreliable as the experience could simply be produced in the brain. Evidence based on philosophy or complex logic is also a product of the mind. The external world may have no real existence apart from what is going on in your skull.
On reading this you may demand proof, proof that the real world is external to the brain… but we don’t have any proof. Actually, we don’t need it. That’s why we call the belief in the real world an axiom, a self-evident truth or a basic belief. Therefore, I would argue, that rejecting God’s existence is equivalent to rejecting that the world is real because they are both self-evident truths.
This is not a type of special pleading for God because there are a myriad of other self-evident truths and axioms that we believe in. These include:
• The existence of other minds
• The existence of objective moral values
• The existence of logical truths
• The validity of our reasoning
• The law of causality
Self-evident truths, axioms and basic beliefs are cross cultural in that they are not culturally bound. They are also innate in that they are not acquired via any form of information transfer, and they are also foundational. What is meant by foundational is that they provide the basis for a coherent worldview. These aspects of self-evident truths will be explained further while addressing the key objections to this argument.
Martin Atkins
Which gods have many good arguments which support a belief in the existence of that god? There are thousands of god constructs. Isis is a god. What about Thor? Shiva? Zesus? Allah? Jupiter? Etc.? For the sake of time, how about we pick only 5 gods that have many good arguments which support the belief in the existence of that god and thoroughly run through those arguments for those 5 specific gods.
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wed...@gmail.com
God gave us all minds and intellects to enable us to make this crucial decision. It is the most important decision in the life of a human being. Upon it depends his future. Consequently, each and every one of us must examine dispassionately the evidence presented, and choose what appears to be right until further evidence arises.
Like every other religion or philosophy, Islam also claims to be the one and only true way to God. In this respect it is no different from other systems. This booklet intends to provide some evidence for the validity of that claim. However, it must always be kept in mind that one can only determine the true path by putting aside emotions and prejudices, which often blind us to reality. Then, and only then, will we be able to use our God-given intelligence and make a rational and correct decision.
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Leo E. Alessi
“Those who will not reason are bigots, those who cannot are fools, and those who dare not are slaves.”
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Martin Atkins
What do you think about these 5 proposals to reform Islam?
1) Ensure that Muhammad and the Qur'an are open to interpretation and criticism.
2) Give priority to this life, not the afterlife.
3) Shackle sharia and end its supremacy over secular law.
4) End the practice of "commanding right, forbidding wrong."
5) Abandon the call to jihad.
From Heretic by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, p. 73
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J.Aguilar
Finding God
Western philosophers, Eastern mystics as well as today’s scientists attempt to reach God in their own way. Mystics teach of a God who is found through spiritual experiences, a God who is part of the world and resides within His creation. The philosophers seek God through pure reason and often speak of a God as a detached Watch-Maker with no interest in His creation. A group of philosophers teach agnosticism, an ideology that holds that one can neither prove nor disprove God's existence. Practically speaking, an agnostic asserts he must be able to perceive God directly in order to have faith. God has said:
"And those who are devoid of knowledge say: ‘Why does not God speak unto us or why is not a [miraculous] sign shown to us?’ So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are all alike..." (Quran 2:118)
The argument is nothing new; people in the past and present have raised the same objection.
According to Islam, the correct way of finding God is through the preserved teachings of the prophets. Islam maintains that the prophets were sent by God Himself throughout the ages to guide human beings to Him. God says in the Holy Quran that the correct path to belief is to reflect upon His signs, which point to Him:
"…Indeed, We have made all the signs manifest unto people who are endowed with inner certainty." (Quran 2:118)
Mention of God’s handiwork occurs often in the Quran as the locus of divine revelation. Anyone who sees the natural world in all its wonder with open eyes and an open heart will see the unmistakable signs of the Creator.
"Say: Go all over the earth and behold how [wondrously] He has created [man] in the first instance: and thus, too, will God bring into being your second life – for, verily, God has power to will anything." (Quran 20:29)
God’s handiwork is also present within the individual:
"And on earth there are signs [of God’s existence, visible] to all who are endowed with inner certainty, just as [there are signs thereof] within your own selves: can you not, then see?" (Quran 51:20-21)
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wed wed
May I know what do you believe in?
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Leo E. Alessi
“Those who will not reason are bigots, those who cannot are fools, and those who dare not are slaves.”
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Martin Atkins
Wed Wed,
Do you think that we should ensure that Muhammad and the Qur'an are open to interpretation and criticism as well as abandon any punishment for people who do criticize Islam or interpret the Qur'an?.
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wed wed
Martin Atkins
Islam does not punish anybody for criticizing Islam or criticizing the Quran. God says in the Quran ( Call - This is addressed to the Prophet- to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair admonition, and dispute with them in the way - which is- fairest ) God calls for wisdom in arguments, as long as it is expressed with respect. So there is no issue with questioning aspects of religion, because that leads to a better understanding and possibly stronger faith. You should understand your faith and you have the right to ask questions as long as you do it with respect. In fact, Islam calls for respect regardless of the religion. So it is not only forbidden for muslims to disrespect Islam, but any other religion as well.
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Martin Atkins
Web Web,
Don't some Muslims view open critiques, deep questions, or disagreements about Islam disrepectful? Don't Shia and Sunni have disagreements that cause killings? Didn't the Danish humorous cartoons of Muhammad (Salalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) criticizing violence in the name of Islam only result in more killings--not words or shame but more death?
By the way, I applaud all Muslims who are challenging this violence and actually pushing for real reform within Islam.
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Michael Stanfill
From: wed wed <wed...@gmail.com>
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Belief in God
Martin Atkins
Can the person get respect without respecting his or her ideas, religious or otherwise?
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Martin Atkins
In other words, can you disrespect the religious or other ideas without disrespecting the person?
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Michael Stanfill
From: Martin Atkins <mfafree...@gmail.com>
To: MFA Discussion Board Public <memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 3:31 PM
Martin Atkins
My Thor's hammer bop you on your head!!!!
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wed wed
Religion is
perfect, people (and the people following that religion) are not. Many times
religion is not practiced correctly or is misunderstood. For example, people
react differently based on their own mentality when someone offends Muhammad
(Salalahu Alayhi Wa Salam), as according to your example. Some of them
overreacted (in the name of Islam) or reacted violently out of love and
jealousy (from the Islamic perspective all these reactions are wrong). On the
other hand, there were some muslims that did react in the right way by giving a
better understanding of who the prophet is. So extremists such as ISIS (in the
East) and the right-wing (in the west) are all exceptions and segments of
people that do not represent everyone else.
In fact, the majority of Sunni's and Shia's live in peace. I am a Sunni
and both my neighbors are Shias.
We might follow religion differently but that does not mean that we hate each other or that we do not get along. Television and the media in general portray things in a very extreme manner that does not necessarily always reflect reality.
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Martin Atkins
Web Web,
If Judaism (a religion) is perfect, according to you, why aren't you proselytizing Judaism? Do you also talk about the perfection of Judaism, especially if fellow Muslims speak against Judaism? Be honest, do you really believe that Judaism, Mormonism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other religions besides your own, Islam, are perfect? Be honest.
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Martin Atkins
Yes, I like it, too, when groups of people cooperate and don't kill each other.
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Martin Atkins
I have Muslim friends who live and work beside atheists, Christians, Hindus and others without any serious tension and even befriend them. My roommate's girlfriend in California was Muslim, and he converted.
I think secularism--government focusing on this world and letting the divine realm to the clerics-- helps. That was Jefferson and Madison's solution to dealing with religious strife (Protestant vs Catholic; Church of England vs Colonialists; and other warring groups).
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wed wed
We were initially talking about violence and extremism in the name of religion. As per my knowledge – no religion calls people to kill one another. Thus, in this sense, all religions are perfect.
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wed wed
Perhaps other religions do not answer the big questions of life, such as “Who made us?” and “Why are we here?” Perhaps other religions do not reconcile the injustices of life with a fair and just Creator. Perhaps we find hypocrisy in the clergy, untenable tenets of faith in the canon, or corruption in the scripture. Whatever the reason, we perceive shortcomings in the religions of our exposure, and look elsewhere. And the ultimate “elsewhere” is Islam.
Now, Muslims would not like to hear me say that Islam is the “ultimate elsewhere.” But it is. Despite the fact that Muslims comprise one-fourth to one-fifth of the world’s population, non-Muslim media smears Islam with such horrible slanders that few non-Muslims view the religion in a positive light. Hence, it is normally the last religion seekers investigate.
Another problem is that by the time non-Muslims examine Islam, other religions have typically heightened their skepticism: If every “God-given” scripture we have ever seen is corrupt, how can the Islamic scripture be different? If charlatans have manipulated religions to suit their desires, how can we imagine the same not to have happened with Islam?
The answer can be given in a few lines, but takes books to explain. The short answer is this: There is a God. He is fair and just, and He wants us to achieve the reward of paradise. However, God has placed us in this worldly life as a test, to weed out the worthy from the unworthy. And we will be lost if left to our own devices. Why? Because we don’t know what He wants from us. We can’t navigate the twists and turns of this life without His guidance, and hence, He has given us guidance in the form of revelation.
Sure, previous religions have been corrupted, and that is one of the reasons why we have a chain of revelation. Ask yourself: wouldn’t God send another revelation if the preceding scriptures were impure? If preceding scriptures were corrupted, humans would need another revelation, to keep upon the straight path of His design.
So we should expect preceding scriptures to be corrupted, and we should expect the final revelation to be pure and unadulterated,for we cannot imagine a loving God leaving us astray. What we can imagine is God giving us a scripture, and men corrupting it; God giving us another scripture, and men corrupting it again … and again, and again. Until God sends a final revelation He promises to preserve until the end of time.
Muslims consider this final revelation to be the Holy Quran. You consider it … worth looking into. So let us return to the title of this article: Why Islam? Why should we believe that Islam is the religion of truth, the religion that possesses the pure and final revelation?
“Oh, just trust me.”
Now, how many times have you heard that line? A famous comedian used to joke that people of different cities cuss one another out in different ways. In Chicago, they cuss a person out this way, in Los Angeles they cuss a person out that way, but in New York they just say, “Trust me.”
So don’t trust me—trust our Creator. Read the Quran, read books and study good websites. But whatever you do, get started, take it seriously, and pray for our Creator to guide you.
Your life may not depend on it, but your soul most definitely does.
Martin Atkins
What is the penalty for leaving Islam per religious law? Is it non-violent?
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Martin Atkins
What about the Meriam Ibrahim and many like her? She was compelled by threat of death to convert to Islam because her father was Muslim. Again, because she refused, she received the death penalty and got international attention for it.
What about switching religions? Apostates are killed (or punished).
Is that not violent coercion? People are killed if they don't convert, and Muslims are killed if they convert to another religion.
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Michael Stanfill
Matthew 10:34–37 “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”
Luke 14:26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
Psalm 137:9 “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”
John 15:6 “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
2 Chronicles 15:13 “That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.”
Deuteronomy 13:12–16 “If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.”
2 Chronicles 15:13 “All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.” NIV
2 Kings 17:25 “When they first lived there, they did not worship the Lord; so he sent lions among them and they killed some of the people.”
Psalm 78:21–22, 31 “When the Lord heard them, he was furious; his fire broke out against Jacob, and his wrath rose against Israel, for they did not believe in God or trust in his deliverance. . . . God’s anger rose against them; he put to death the sturdiest among them, cutting down the young men of Israel.”
Psalm 78:21 “Therefore, when the Lord heard, he was full of wrath; a fire was kindled against Jacob, his anger mounted against Israel; because they had no faith in God.”
Exodus 22:20 “Whoever sacrifices to any god, other than the Lord alone, shall be devoted to destruction.”
Deuteronomy 13:7-12 “If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods . . . Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God.”
Martin Atkins
Judaism and Christianity no longer kill people for religious crimes (apostasy, adultry, etc.). By contrast, there are Muslim countries that still do.
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Martin Atkins
Wed Wed, you wrote, "The answer can be given in a few lines, but takes books to explain. The short answer is this: There is a God. He is fair and just, and He wants us to achieve the reward of paradise." Do you think that this lack of focus on this world is why Muslim counties are generally so poor and unskilled (except for a very few exceptions)? Young Muslim men don't spend as much time as non-Muslim men on self-improvement and improving this world. And many Muslim women face more obstacles to worldly success than even non-Muslim women. Now there are some exceptions but this is generally true.
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Michael Stanfill
From: Martin Atkins <mfafree...@gmail.com>
To: MFA Discussion Board Public <memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com>
wed wed
Michael Stanfill,
As I said ( As per my knowledge ) not before you mentioned to me.
One of the fundamental truths established by the sacred texts is that no one can be compelled to accept Islam. It is the duty of Muslims to establish the proof of Islam to the people so that truth can be made clear from falsehood. After that, whoever wishes to accept Islam may do so and whoever wishes to continue upon unbelief may do so. No one should be threatened or harmed in any way if he does not wish to accept Islam.
Among the many decisive pieces of evidence in this regard are the following. God says:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)
God says:
“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)
God says:
“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.” (Quran 3:20)
God says:
“The Messenger’s duty is but to proclaim the Message.” (Quran 5:99)
It is important to note that these last two verses were revealed in Medina. This is significant, since it shows that the ruling they gave was not just contingent on the Muslims being in Mecca in a state of weakness.
Some people might be wondering that if Islam indeed advocates such an approach, then what is all this we hear about jihad? How can we explain the warfare that the Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, and his Companions waged against the pagans? The answer to this is that jihad in Islamic Law can be waged for a number of reasons, but compelling people to accept Islam is simply not one of them. As for conversion, this is to be done peacefully by disseminating the Message with the written and spoken word. There is no place for the use of weapons to compel people to accept Islam.
The Prophet, said in his letter to the Roman governor Heraclius:
“I invite you to accept Islam. If you accept Islam, you will find safety. If you accept Islam, God will give you a double reward. However, if you turn away, upon you will be the sin of your subjects.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari, Saheeh Muslim)
Once people have heard the Message without obstruction or hindrance and the proof has been established upon them, then the duty of the Muslims is done. Those who wish to believe are free to do so and those who prefer to disbelieve are likewise free to do so.
Even when the Muslims are compelled to fight and then, as a consequence, subdue the land, their duty thereafter is to establish God’s law in the land and uphold justice for all people, Muslim and non-Muslim. It is not their right to coerce their subjects to accept Islam against their will. Non-Muslims under Muslim rule must be allowed to remain on their own faith and must be allowed to practice the rights of their faith, though they will be expected to respect the laws of the land.
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wed wed
Martin Atkins.
The religion of Islam includes a basic set of rules designed to protect the rights and freedoms of individuals and communities. It is a doctrine concerned with respect, tolerance, justice, and equality. The Islamic concepts of freedom and human rights are imbedded in and guaranteed by the Sharia (Islamic Law). Islam establishes a legal framework, and embodies a code of ethics, designed to protect the rights of an individual including his or her right to live in a secure community.
Prophet Muhammad said, “Whosoever wakes up (in the morning) feeling that he is secure in his community, free from ailments and diseases in his body, and has enough provision for a single day, it is as if he owns the entire world.”
The Sharia is concerned with preserving five basic rights: the right to practice religion, the protection of life, the safeguarding of the mind or intellect, the preservation of honour and family, and the sanctity of wealth and property. It is a moral and ethical base in which individual rights are upheld but not permitted to overshadow the rights of the community.
Islamic law contains comprehensive principles and general rules that take into consideration the changing circumstances of society, as well as the constancy and permanence of human nature. While the Sharia combines stability, flexibility, and firmness, it has set down immutable punishments for certain crimes, that are not affected by changing conditions and circumstances. One of these punishments is the death penalty.
There are only two categories of crimes for which the death penalty can be applied under Sharia law. One is murder and the other is for crimes against the community (sometimes known as spreading mischief). One of the core principles of Islam is that a cohesive and secure community is absolutely paramount. Crimes that threaten the community include treason, apostasy (when one leaves the religion of Islam and actively turns against it), , piracy, rape, adultery, practising magic and homosexual activity.
“We ordained ...that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.” (Quran 5:32)
One of the most grave sins is the intentional taking of a life. When Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, was asked what the major sins were, he said, “Associating others with God, disobeying one’s parents, murder and bearing false witness." God says,
“And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein; and the Wrath and the Curse of God are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him” (Quran 4:93)
It is important to understand that there is no place for vigilantism in Islam. A person accused of a crime must be properly convicted in an Islamic court of law before any punishment can be meted out. In the case of the death penalty the severity of the punishment requires that very strict evidence standards must be met before a conviction is found.
There are three categories of punishment in the Sharia. Hadd punishments, for crimes against the community are those that are divinely prescribed in the Quran or the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad. They cannot be changed. These punishments can only be carried out by a Muslim ruler or his deputy. It is not permissible for individual Muslims to carry out the hadd punishments (which sometimes include the death penalty) because of the chaos and tribulation it would cause in the community.
The second form of punishment, specifically for murder or serious assault, is called Qisas. Whenever a person causes physical harm or death to another, the injured or family of the deceased has the right to retaliation. A unique aspect of Qisas, is that the victim’s family has the option to insist upon the punishment, accept monetary recompense, or forgive the offender, which could even avert the death penalty. Quran urges families and victims to forgive and show mercy even in the direst of circumstances.
“And there is (a saving of) life for you in Al-Qisas (the Law of Equality in punishment), Oh men of understanding, that you may become pious.” (Quran 2:179)
All other crimes fall into the third category, Tazir, which is a discretionary punishment decided by the court.
God sent down His book of guidance the Quran, He gave humankind Islam, the final message and completion of all religions, He sent Prophet Muhammad, a man capable of leading humankind into a new era of tolerance, respect, and justice. The words of Quran and the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad contain rights and responsibilities granted by God to humankind. They are not subject to the whims and desires of men and women or the changing allegiances of governments and corporations.
Islamic law, the Sharia, God’s laws are embed with justice, mercy and forgiveness; it does not involve taking human life unnecessarily.
“We sent our messengers with clear signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance so that men may conduct themselves with justice.” (Quran 57:25)
“O you who believe, be upholders of justice, witnessing for God alone.” (Quran 4:135)
Even on the rare occasions when the death penalty is called for it is carried out under humane conditions and holds the promise of forgiveness and eternal paradise. Prophet Muhammad said, “Swear allegiance to me that you will not worship anything besides God, Will not steal, and will not commit illegal sexual intercourse.” And then (the Prophet) recited from the Quran and added, “And whoever among you fulfils his pledge, his reward is with God. Whoever commits something of such sins and receives the legal punishment for it, that will be considered as the expiation for that sin. Whoever commits something of such sins and God screens him, it is up to God whether to excuse or punish him.”
Postscript. It must be noted that individuals, groups and countries have perpetrated great crimes in the name of Islam and in the name of Sharia law. Men women and children have been condemned to death without the benefit of the strict evidence standards demanded by the Sharia and without the sense of justice and forgiveness that are characteristic of the teachings of Quran and the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad.
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Michael Stanfill
Martin Atkins
Web Web,
With equal conviction, the Christians use the Bible for proof of God, argue that the evidence is overwhelming, and that people will know Christ's Truth if they only open their hearts and minds to the Truth. Biblical verses are also used to bolster their arguments.
Why should I give more weight to the same religious arguments from Islam? I see no discernable difference. Many people give the same level of skepticism toward Christianity and Islam--and reject both.
Web Web, we are much alike. You reasonably reject Christianity, Judaism, Huduism, Buddhism, etc. I just go one religion further and apply your refined critical thinking toward other religions to your own religion---Islam.
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Michael Stanfill
Michael Stanfill
Martin Atkins
Wedwed,
Is Michael telling the truth? Is that a true story? If so, do you have a few examples of government sanctioned death sentences for Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc for renouncing their Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc? That story seems pretty damning of Islam and a rebuttal to your claim that Muslims are NOT coerced into staying Muslim and becoming Muslim.
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Martin Atkins
Wedwed,
Is there going to be an Islamic movement to save the life of this apostate with quotes from the Qur'an to justify why killing this man is utterly wrong--equivalent to what would happen in a Jewish, Hindu, or Christian community. Does the death sentence for this apostate deeply trouble you and the rest of the Muslim world?
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Martin Atkins
Wedwed,
Never mind, I just read your previous email in which you clarified that the death penalty could be used for apostates to preserve community cohesion.
The Sharia is concerned with preserving five basic rights: the right to practice religion (but only the proper Islamic religion), the protection of life (except for apostates and various other criminals), the safeguarding of the mind or intellect (except for critical statements about Islam or even talk about reforming Islam), the preservation of honour and family (especially when the honor of a man is in jeopardy and can be dismissed by killing a woman), and the sanctity of wealth and property (except if the property belongs to a heretic, Christian/Jew, or apostate).
Martin Atkins
Wedwed,
Based on what you sent, you're only advocating that people be put to death for the following crimes, right?
1. Treason
2. Apostasy (when one leaves the religion of Islam and actively turns against it)
3. Piracy
4. Rape
5. Adultery (sex with someone other than your wife or husband if you're married)
6. Practicing magic
7. Homosexuality
You don't necessarily want the death sentence for murders--that's up to the victim's family--but definitely death to adulters, homosexuals, magicians, and apostates.
That is a very interesting stance on justice.
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Martin Atkins
If that is accurate, why do you believe that?
Tiffany Lindfield
> Introduction
>
> At the heart of Islam lies belief in God.
>
> The core of the Islamic creed is bearing witness to the
> phrase, La illaha illa Allah, "There is no true deity deserving worship
> but God." The testimony to this belief, called tawhid, is the axis
> around which all Islam revolves. Moreover, it is the first of the two
> testimonies by which a person becomes a Muslim. Striving after the realization
> of that oneness, or tawhid, is the core of Islamic life.
>
> For many non-Muslims, the term Allah, the Arabic
> name of God, refers to some distant and strange deity worshipped by the Arabs.
> Some even think it to be some pagan "moon-god". However, in Arabic, the word Allah
> means the One True God. Even, Arabic speaking Jews and Christians refer to
> the Supreme Being as Allah.
> Finding God
>
> Western philosophers, Eastern mystics as well as today’s
> scientists attempt to reach God in their own way. Mystics teach of a God who
> is found through spiritual experiences, a God who is part of the world and
> resides within His creation. The philosophers seek God through pure reason and
> often speak of a God as a detached Watch-Maker with no interest in His creation.
> A group of philosophers teach agnosticism, an ideology that holds that one can
> neither prove nor disprove God's existence. Practically speaking, an agnostic
> asserts he must be able to perceive God directly in order to have faith. God
> has said:
>
> "And those who are devoid of knowledge say: ‘Why does not God
> speak unto us or why is not a [miraculous] sign shown to us?’ So said the
> people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are all alike..." (Quran
> 2:118)
>
> The argument is nothing new; people in the past and
> present have raised the same objection.
>
> According to Islam, the correct way of finding God is
> through the preserved teachings of the prophets. Islam maintains that the
> prophets were sent by God Himself throughout the ages to guide human beings to
> Him. God says in the Holy Quran that the correct path to belief is to reflect upon
> His signs, which point to Him:
>
> "…Indeed, We have made all the signs manifest unto people who are
> endowed with inner certainty." (Quran 2:118)
>
> Mention of God’s handiwork occurs often in the Quran as
> the locus of divine revelation. Anyone who sees the natural world in all its
> wonder with open eyes and an open heart will see the unmistakable signs of the
> Creator.
>
> "Say: Go all over the earth and behold how [wondrously] He has
> created [man] in the first instance: and thus, too, will God bring into being
> your second life – for, verily, God has power to will anything." (Quran 20:29)
>
> God’s handiwork is also present within the individual:
>
> "And on earth there are signs [of God’s existence, visible] to
> all who are endowed with inner certainty, just as [there are signs thereof]
> within your own selves: can you not, then see?" (Quran 51:20-21)
>
>
>
>
>
> The beauty and complexity of our universe. The Cone Nebula pictured
> by NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope. (AP Photo/NASA)
Thank you Wed Wed for taking time to discuss your beliefs openly on a public forum. It is not easy speaking your opinion in a room full of people who disagree. That takes effort. Thank you. Though,I disagree with your points, I'm glad to read ideas from another person's perspective.
wed wed
You
should distinguish between the laws set by counters and the laws of Islam
.
All Islamic countries follow shareah (law), but each country has its own laws as well, which may be related to religion however not set by Islam, but made by the state itself. So the punishment for badmouthing Islam is created by the state and not but Islam itself and is not a part of shareah law.
For example, when the Muslims entered Makkah their army captured many prisoners, including many of those who had persecuted, tortured and killed Muslims for 13 years before they emigrated to Al-Madinah. The prisoners were gathered in front of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). He asked them: "What do you think I will do to you?" Knowing how they had treated Mohammad (pbuh) and his followers, the prisoners were afraid that their fate would be death as a punishment for their crimes. However, in an attempt to ask for leniency, one of them replied: "You are a kind brother and nephew to us", reminding Mohammad (pbuh) that they were his people and many of them were from the same tribe as Mohammad (pbuh). Mohammad (pbuh) replied to them: "You are all free to go!"
So you can see that the prophet treated non-Muslims well even if they harmed him and Muslims and disrespected Islam. The Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, was described as a “Mercy for all the Worlds”, as God said in the Quran:
“We have sent you as a mercy for all the worlds.” (Quran 21:107(
Just because a country says it follows Shareah does not mean that it applied it fully or correctly. So although they generally follow Shareah they don't follow through with all its laws. In other countries we find that although they don't follow Islam they do punish even kill murders and spies. So it really does differ from one country to another regardless of whether they follow a specific religion or not
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wed wed
Thank you very much Tiffany
Lindfield
I understand and do respect you all :)
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Martin Atkins
Is Sharia Law the ideal? Those laws and punishments seemed very harsh compared to Asian, Western, Russian, and most countries outside the Middle East (with the except of some African countries).
I'm happy that adulterers, magicians, homosexuals aren't always automatically killed--just most of time. That is, some Islamic countries go against Sharia Law.
Again, I just found it ironic that the punishment for consensual sex between a) two women, b) two men, c) two people who are married to someone else, or d) one person who's married and another who isn't is death, which is considered more sinful than murder. Consensual sex is more evil than murder, which the murderer can sometimes just pay a fine for! That is so counter to cultural and religious practices in nearly all countries on the planet.
Sharia Law is just so bizarre to me as an American who knows heterosexuals with open marriages and good people who've engage and continue to engage in homosexual behaviors and have open marriages. And magicians who enjoy entertaining people. Knowing these friends would or should be put to death per Sharia Law is unsettling.
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Martin Atkins
Wedwed,
Thanks for clarifying that some Islamic countries don't have rule of law (Sharia Law), and people are sometimes mercifully spared death.
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Martin Atkins
Wed Wed, thanks for taking the time to discuss Islam with non-Muslims. We appreciate you.
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Martin Atkins
Introduction
The core of the Islamic creed is bearing witness to the phrase, La illaha illa Allah, "There is no true deity deserving worship but God." The testimony to this belief, called tawhid, is the axis around which all Islam revolves. Moreover, it is the first of the two testimonies by which a person becomes a Muslim. Striving after the realization of that oneness, or tawhid, is the core of Islamic life.
For many non-Muslims, the term Allah, the Arabic name of God, refers to some distant and strange deity worshipped by the Arabs. Some even think it to be some pagan "moon-god". However, in Arabic, the word Allah means the One True God. Even, Arabic speaking Jews and Christians refer to the Supreme Being as Allah.
Finding God
Western philosophers, Eastern mystics as well as today’s scientists attempt to reach God in their own way. Mystics teach of a God who is found through spiritual experiences, a God who is part of the world and resides within His creation. The philosophers seek God through pure reason and often speak of a God as a detached Watch-Maker with no interest in His creation. A group of philosophers teach agnosticism, an ideology that holds that one can neither prove nor disprove God's existence. Practically speaking, an agnostic asserts he must be able to perceive God directly in order to have faith. God has said:
"And those who are devoid of knowledge say: ‘Why does not God speak unto us or why is not a [miraculous] sign shown to us?’ So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are all alike..." (Quran 2:118)
The argument is nothing new; people in the past and present have raised the same objection.
According to Islam, the correct way of finding God is through the preserved teachings of the prophets. Islam maintains that the prophets were sent by God Himself throughout the ages to guide human beings to Him. God says in the Holy Quran that the correct path to belief is to reflect upon His signs, which point to Him:
"…Indeed, We have made all the signs manifest unto people who are endowed with inner certainty." (Quran 2:118)
Mention of God’s handiwork occurs often in the Quran as the locus of divine revelation. Anyone who sees the natural world in all its wonder with open eyes and an open heart will see the unmistakable signs of the Creator.
"Say: Go all over the earth and behold how [wondrously] He has created [man] in the first instance: and thus, too, will God bring into being your second life – for, verily, God has power to will anything." (Quran 20:29)
God’s handiwork is also present within the individual:
"And on earth there are signs [of God’s existence, visible] to all who are endowed with inner certainty, just as [there are signs thereof] within your own selves: can you not, then see?" (Quran 51:20-21)
The beauty and complexity of our universe. The Cone Nebula pictured by NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope. (AP Photo/NASA)
--
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wed wed
Again acts are unacceptable and its even worse that they were done in the name of God where they are actually NOT a part of of shariah ( law ).
What
has happened is disgusting and they ruin the image of Islam. The acts of one
state does not represent Islam as a while, regardless of whether or not she did
it, it is wrong.
Unfortunately, many people around the world today would be incredulous to hear that the lives and property of non-Muslims are sacred in Islam. There are reasons for this incredulity. The clearest reason is that people grossly misunderstand the Islamic concept of disassociation with unbelief.
Therefore, it is important to stress the general principle in Islamic Law that the lives of all people, Muslims and non-Muslims, are sacred and inviolable. This is clearly indicated by the sacred texts of Islam, and it needs to be shown to the people that those who try to argue otherwise are deliberately misinterpreting the scriptures and taking things out of context.
Indeed, Islam exhorts us to keep people alive and to save people’s lives whenever the chance arises. God says in the Quran: "On that account, We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever kills a human being for other than punishment for murder or corruption in the Earth, it shall be as if he had killed all humanity, and whoso saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the lives of all humanity." [Quran 5:32]
Islamic Law stresses the values of mercy and compassion, and does not take violence lightly, like we see sectarian extremist groups doing these days.
God says in the Quran: "We only sent you (O Muhammad) as a mercy to all people." [Quran 21:107]
Prophet
Muhammad said: "If you show mercy to those on Earth, the One in Heaven
will show mercy to you." He also said: "Those who do not show mercy
to others will not receive mercy." and: "Those who are merciful
receive mercy from the Most Merciful Lord."
He also said: "Kindness beautifies everything it touches, and its absence makes things ugly."
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Martin Atkins
Thanks for taking the time to respimd., Wed Wed.
On a positive note....
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wed wed
Martin Atkins
thank you for your kind response. yes there have been many examples similar to the one you sent me which portrays tolerance and love regardless of differences, its very refreshing and lovely to see.
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Fan of Reason
Thank you for your responses. I am interested in getting your thoughts on how people who are not Muslim or religious (i.e., external to the faith and culture) can work with peaceful Muslims to influence a reformation of Islam. If those who endorse violence based on certain, perhaps misinterpreted, verses in the Koran can be minimized via a reformation, what do you believe the world at large needs to do to help with that cause? For example, I have read a little on the Muslims For Peace website. Do you like that website? What other resources should people look into to help peaceful Muslims mitigate violence in the name of Islam? Also, what more should peaceful Muslims do internally, as a sect, about this problem?
Thank you for your time.
wed wed
Thank you for the participation in the discussion.
" what do you believe the world at large needs to do to help with that cause?"
Non- Muslims need to read more about Islam and get the information from good sources which give pure sight of Islam based on a more accurate interpretation of the Quran and the sunnah. Such as these websites:
These interpretations
allow Muslims to correctly follow the commands of God and the teachings of his
prophet peace be upon him.
" I have read a little on the Muslims For Peace website. Do you like that website?"
No I don't. There are many websites about religions. Some of them are on the right path, but some of them are unfortunately not. ( Muslims For Peace ) is one of these websites as the people behind it claim Prophecy which leads to misconception of Islam to be published.
" What other resources
should people look into to help peaceful Muslims mitigate violence in the name
of Islam?"
In fact the best sources at all are the original sources, the Quran, and the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad, may mercy and blessings of God be upon him. It is not feasible to take one verse from Quran and deduce its meaning without reading the preceding and following verses. Fully understanding the depth and subtlety of the Quran is only possible when one understands the historical context and reason for revelation, as well as in depth knowledge about the life of Prophet Muhammad.
On the other hand, some of Muslims -through social media - do their best to spread awareness people and to reject violence as well. This will show the world that these violent people do not represent Islam nor Muslims and that their acts are denounced by the Islamic faith.
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Fan of Reason
Keith Hodges
Albeit, there are limitations to those senses because we cannot always separate that which we wish to believe as opposed to that which is true. That is why the scientific method employs several checks, like controls, large data sets, regression analyses, the testing of null hypotheses, amongst others, to reduce bias. That the experience may be one created in the brain is refuted by the many peer reviews and deconstruction that every scientific theory is subject to is very much refutable. In science, any theory can fall, but many have stood up against rigorous testing. In that vane, no good scientist should ever "believe" a theorem; he/she can only interpret that theorem in light of what he/she understands at the time. In that same light, it is not self-evident that god is real, based on what we see in the real world. One can witness the winds blowing, the sun rising and falling, the birth of children, the death of men, crimes, acts of benevolence, joy, sorrow, the seven wonders, and so much more, and never have to invoke the name of any god. Likewise, i cannot say that it is evident there is no god;to prove that one only needs to look at the bible itself.
Nothing does more to strongly suggest that the bible was written by ancient munds that didnt quite understand the natural world moreso than the bible itself. Creating night and day and plants before the sun. Creating a perfect world, then your close angel-friend getting jealous and you setting him loose on your servile pups to eat from a tree that you placed there (and not even one generation lasted so ..you punish the whole human race, of course). Then, geberations later, you let your arch enemy into your grace to takk you into a pissing contest about how much he can harm your child, Job. He who told his children to destroy ebtire towns and there people. He who sent his son that we heard nothing about in the old testament (please dont use the suffering servant lie here). He who sacrifices that son who was immortal to begin with, so who in dying never really died. Lets not even get into the historicity of the good book or its predecessors in the Chaldean and other mesopotamian empires.
In all, I mean to say that the statement that god is real does not have to be true for us to accept that the world is real. One cannot say that god is not real either, but on the same token, I cannot say that mermaids are not real either (fir the record, i dont believe in mermaids or God).