Industrial Agriculture and sustaining increase carrying capacity of the Earth
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Tom
Nov 19, 2009, 2:26:31 PM11/19/09
to memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
Besides the main court case information I guess I should have included something on why industrial hog farming can be a negative thing and what are the alternatives.
First off, if your neighbor put 65,000 pigs in next door, the first thing you might notice is a certain smell. A clothespin attached to the nose may help a bit :-).
Current industrial agriculture practices are temporarily increasing the carrying capacity of the Earth for humans while slowly destroying the long term carrying capacity of the earth for humans necessitating a shift to a sustainable agriculture form of industrial agriculture. This is a continuation of thousands of years of the invention and use of technologies in feeding ever growing populations.
from Wikipedia
My premise is that while I am a huge proponent of science and technology, I think some industrial scale agribusiness has abused technology (eg huge numbers of animals in unhealthy toxic condition, constantly shot with antibiotics to keep them alive) while ignoring the environmental impact and leaving others to pick up the long term costs.
Regarding industrial scale hog farming in particular, there are many problems in putting huge numbers of pigs in a very small and unheathy environment. I will mention two very important ones:
1.pound for pound, pigs general 5 times the excrement of a human being.
So putting tens of thousands of pigs in a small area requires a great deal of care in sewage treatment, ventilation, etc. Industrial farms have huge lagoons of this stuff that, if not adequately protected can leach into the local groundwater, just like an unprotected toxic waste dump could.
A safe system that would protect the health of the pigs and the environment around the farms would cost a lot of money. Human nature being what it is, most farmers are more concerned with short term profitability, and allow their neighbors and country to pick up the tab for the long term environmental costs.
In 24 states in the U.S., isolated cases of groundwater contamination has been linked to [Factory Farms]. For example, the ten million hogs in North Carolina generate 19 million tons of waste per year. The U.S. federal government acknowledges the waste disposal issue and requires that animal waste be stored in lagoons. These lagoons can be as large as 7.5 acres (30,000 m2). Lagoons not protected with an impermeable liner can leak waste into groundwater under some conditions, as can runoff from manure spread back onto fields as fertilizer in the case of an unforeseen heavy rainfall. A lagoon that burst in 1995 released 25 million gallons of nitrous sludge in North Carolina's New River. The spill allegedly killed eight to ten million fish.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture#Criticism_of_factory_farming
2. Pigs are very close to humans including the ease of disease transmission between them.
H1N1 is thought to have come from an industrial hog farm outside of Mexico city.
Alternatives:
Spread out the pig population to the point where the environment can absorb the excrement and the health of the pigs can be naturally maintained.
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture
Tom
First off, if your neighbor put 65,000 pigs in next door, the first thing you might notice is a certain smell. A clothespin attached to the nose may help a bit :-).
Current industrial agriculture practices are temporarily increasing the carrying capacity of the Earth for humans while slowly destroying the long term carrying capacity of the earth for humans necessitating a shift to a sustainable agriculture form of industrial agriculture. This is a continuation of thousands of years of the invention and use of technologies in feeding ever growing populations.
from Wikipedia
The major challenges and issues faced by society concerning industrial agriculture include:
Maximizing the benefits:
- Cheap and plentiful food
- Convenience for the consumer
- The contribution to our economy on many levels, from growers to harvesters to processors to sellers
while minimizing the downsides:
- Environmental and social costs
- Damage to fisheries
- Cleanup of surface and groundwater polluted with animal waste
- Increased health risks from pesticides
- Increased ozone pollution and global warming from heavy use of fossil fuels[10]
My premise is that while I am a huge proponent of science and technology, I think some industrial scale agribusiness has abused technology (eg huge numbers of animals in unhealthy toxic condition, constantly shot with antibiotics to keep them alive) while ignoring the environmental impact and leaving others to pick up the long term costs.
Regarding industrial scale hog farming in particular, there are many problems in putting huge numbers of pigs in a very small and unheathy environment. I will mention two very important ones:
1.pound for pound, pigs general 5 times the excrement of a human being.
So putting tens of thousands of pigs in a small area requires a great deal of care in sewage treatment, ventilation, etc. Industrial farms have huge lagoons of this stuff that, if not adequately protected can leach into the local groundwater, just like an unprotected toxic waste dump could.
A safe system that would protect the health of the pigs and the environment around the farms would cost a lot of money. Human nature being what it is, most farmers are more concerned with short term profitability, and allow their neighbors and country to pick up the tab for the long term environmental costs.
In 24 states in the U.S., isolated cases of groundwater contamination has been linked to [Factory Farms]. For example, the ten million hogs in North Carolina generate 19 million tons of waste per year. The U.S. federal government acknowledges the waste disposal issue and requires that animal waste be stored in lagoons. These lagoons can be as large as 7.5 acres (30,000 m2). Lagoons not protected with an impermeable liner can leak waste into groundwater under some conditions, as can runoff from manure spread back onto fields as fertilizer in the case of an unforeseen heavy rainfall. A lagoon that burst in 1995 released 25 million gallons of nitrous sludge in North Carolina's New River. The spill allegedly killed eight to ten million fish.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture#Criticism_of_factory_farming
2. Pigs are very close to humans including the ease of disease transmission between them.
H1N1 is thought to have come from an industrial hog farm outside of Mexico city.
Alternatives:
Spread out the pig population to the point where the environment can absorb the excrement and the health of the pigs can be naturally maintained.
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture
Tom
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Clogtowner <clogt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi y'all - did you miss out a link to this? I'm interested in what
alternatives were proposed.
On Nov 17, 3:59 pm, Tom <ssoitg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't know if any of you are concerned on environmental issues, but we had a
> win in court yesterday concerning industrial hog farms in Western KY. Of
> concern is 16 million+ gallons of pig excrement a year. These farms are
> literally right on the TN border and could potentially affect the West TN
> aquifer.
>
> The game is played as follows:
> This millionaire Tosh subcontracts the pig farms to other farmers under an
> very exacting agreement. What happens is that Tosh gets the money, while
> assuming none of the responsibility for whatever environmental disaster
> there is long term.
>
> Sweet deal. And with the state environmental cabinet protection head and
> former Gov as friends..
>
> Luckily many individuals came together to fight it. Many have contributed
> thousands of dollars to the legal costs to bring this suit. Of course,
> there are millions of dollars being made so it's an uphill battle.
>
> Tosh WILL be responsible
> It nice to see some people get together and have a real impact on their
> homes and the environment...
>
> Of course the State's environmental cabinet will appeal.. even the
> Democratic administration wants a "business friendly" environment.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: nandgnett <nandgn...@bellsouth.net>
> Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:17 PM
> Subject: Fw: Courier Journal article about the river county hog lawsuit/win
--> To: Undisclosed recipient <nandgn...@bellsouth.net>
>
> Cc: Mike Tierney <mtfurnit...@cs.com>
>
> Subject: Courier Journal article about the river county hog lawsuit/win
>
> http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009911160372
>
> > --
> > Do not be afraid to go out on a limb ... That's where the fruit is.
> > - Anonymous
>
>
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Clogtowner
Nov 20, 2009, 7:05:54 AM11/20/09
to Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
Hi y'all - some good stuff there. I have thought of keeping pigs. I
guess it comes down to the free range versus factory farming issue. I
know which chicken/turkeys I like best, but the price must be paid - I
think it is one that we can (should) afford.
On Nov 19, 1:26 pm, Tom <ssoitg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Besides the main court case information I guess I should have included
> something on why industrial hog farming can be a negative thing and what are
> the alternatives.
>
> First off, if your neighbor put 65,000 pigs in next door, the first thing
> you might notice is a certain smell. A clothespin attached to the nose may
> help a bit :-).
>
> *Current industrial agriculture practices are temporarily increasing
> the carrying
> capacity <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity> of the Earth for
> humans while slowly destroying the **long term carrying capacity of the
> - Convenience for the consumer
> - The contribution to our economy on many levels, from growers to
> - Damage to fisheries
> - Cleanup of surface and groundwater polluted with animal waste
> - Increased health risks from pesticides
> - Increased ozone pollution and global warming from heavy use of fossil
> fuels[10]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture#cite_note-society-9>
> contamination<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwater_contamination>has
> requires that animal
> waste <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_waste> be stored in
> lagoons<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manure_lagoon>.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture#cite_note-17>
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to>memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
guess it comes down to the free range versus factory farming issue. I
know which chicken/turkeys I like best, but the price must be paid - I
think it is one that we can (should) afford.
On Nov 19, 1:26 pm, Tom <ssoitg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Besides the main court case information I guess I should have included
> something on why industrial hog farming can be a negative thing and what are
> the alternatives.
>
> First off, if your neighbor put 65,000 pigs in next door, the first thing
> you might notice is a certain smell. A clothespin attached to the nose may
> help a bit :-).
>
> the carrying
> capacity <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity> of the Earth for
> humans while slowly destroying the **long term carrying capacity of the
> earth for humans necessitating a shift to a sustainable
> agriculture<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_agriculture>form
> of industrial agriculture. This is a continuation of thousands of
> years
> of the invention and use of technologies in feeding ever growing
> populations.*
> years
> of the invention and use of technologies in feeding ever growing
> from Wikipedia
>
> The major challenges and issues faced by society concerning industrial
> agriculture include:
>
> Maximizing the benefits:
>
> - Cheap and plentiful food
>
> The major challenges and issues faced by society concerning industrial
> agriculture include:
>
> Maximizing the benefits:
>
> - Convenience for the consumer
> - The contribution to our economy on many levels, from growers to
> harvesters to processors to sellers
>
> while minimizing the downsides:
>
> - Environmental and social costs
>
> while minimizing the downsides:
>
> - Damage to fisheries
> - Cleanup of surface and groundwater polluted with animal waste
> - Increased health risks from pesticides
> - Increased ozone pollution and global warming from heavy use of fossil
> fuels[10]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture#cite_note-society-9>
>
> (From Wikipedia)
>
> My premise is that while I am a huge proponent of science and technology, I
> think some industrial scale agribusiness has abused technology (eg huge
> numbers of animals in unhealthy toxic condition, constantly shot with
> antibiotics to keep them alive) while ignoring the environmental impact and
> leaving others to pick up the long term costs.
>
> Regarding industrial scale hog farming in particular, there are many
> problems in putting huge numbers of pigs in a very small and unheathy
> environment. I will mention two very important ones:
>
> 1.pound for pound, pigs general 5 times the excrement of a human being.
>
> So putting tens of thousands of pigs in a small area requires a great deal
> of care in sewage treatment, ventilation, etc. Industrial farms have huge
> lagoons of this stuff that, if not adequately protected can leach into the
> local groundwater, just like an unprotected toxic waste dump could.
>
> A safe system that would protect the health of the pigs and the environment
> around the farms would cost a lot of money. Human nature being what it is,
> most farmers are more concerned with short term profitability, and allow
> their neighbors and country to pick up the tab for the long term
> environmental costs.
>
> *In 24 states in the U.S., isolated cases of groundwater
> (From Wikipedia)
>
> My premise is that while I am a huge proponent of science and technology, I
> think some industrial scale agribusiness has abused technology (eg huge
> numbers of animals in unhealthy toxic condition, constantly shot with
> antibiotics to keep them alive) while ignoring the environmental impact and
> leaving others to pick up the long term costs.
>
> Regarding industrial scale hog farming in particular, there are many
> problems in putting huge numbers of pigs in a very small and unheathy
> environment. I will mention two very important ones:
>
> 1.pound for pound, pigs general 5 times the excrement of a human being.
>
> So putting tens of thousands of pigs in a small area requires a great deal
> of care in sewage treatment, ventilation, etc. Industrial farms have huge
> lagoons of this stuff that, if not adequately protected can leach into the
> local groundwater, just like an unprotected toxic waste dump could.
>
> A safe system that would protect the health of the pigs and the environment
> around the farms would cost a lot of money. Human nature being what it is,
> most farmers are more concerned with short term profitability, and allow
> their neighbors and country to pick up the tab for the long term
> environmental costs.
>
> contamination<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwater_contamination>has
> been linked to [Factory Farms]. For
> example, the ten million hogs in North Carolina generate 19 million tons of
> waste per year. The U.S. federal government acknowledges the waste
> disposal<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_disposal>issue and
> example, the ten million hogs in North Carolina generate 19 million tons of
> waste per year. The U.S. federal government acknowledges the waste
> requires that animal
> waste <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_waste> be stored in
> lagoons<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manure_lagoon>.
> These lagoons can be as large as 7.5 acres (30,000 m2). Lagoons not
> protected with an impermeable liner can leak waste into groundwater under
> some conditions, as can runoff from manure spread back onto fields as
> fertilizer in the case of an unforeseen heavy rainfall. A lagoon that burst
> in 1995 released 25 million gallons of nitrous sludge in North Carolina's
> New River. The spill allegedly killed eight to ten million fish.
> See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture#Criticism_of_fact...
> protected with an impermeable liner can leak waste into groundwater under
> some conditions, as can runoff from manure spread back onto fields as
> fertilizer in the case of an unforeseen heavy rainfall. A lagoon that burst
> in 1995 released 25 million gallons of nitrous sludge in North Carolina's
> New River. The spill allegedly killed eight to ten million fish.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture#cite_note-17>
> 2. Pigs are very close to humans including the ease of disease transmission
> between them.*
>
> H1N1 is thought to have come from an industrial hog farm outside of Mexico
> city.
>
> Alternatives:
> Spread out the pig population to the point where the environment can absorb
> the excrement and the health of the pigs can be naturally maintained.
> See also:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture
> Tom
>
> H1N1 is thought to have come from an industrial hog farm outside of Mexico
> city.
>
> Alternatives:
> Spread out the pig population to the point where the environment can absorb
> the excrement and the health of the pigs can be naturally maintained.
> See also:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture
> Tom
>
> > .
Tom
Nov 20, 2009, 11:29:20 AM11/20/09
to memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
I don't think the animals have to even be "free range" but just kept at a population density that is not leathal. Pork is a very lucrative livestock in general, it is one of the very few things we export to China.Chinese demand for pork is huge. China is set to remove import barriers to pork:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dj-cme-livestock-review-chinaus-pork-news-spurs-hog-buying-2009-10-29
My wife's family have been pig farmers as well, they are just against the industrial scale stuff.
Tom
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dj-cme-livestock-review-chinaus-pork-news-spurs-hog-buying-2009-10-29
My wife's family have been pig farmers as well, they are just against the industrial scale stuff.
Tom
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com.
ornamentalmind
Nov 20, 2009, 5:23:27 PM11/20/09
to Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
Without the intention of derailing this topic, the recent movement to
“industrial scale stuff” has all but taken over the beef, poultry and
feed industries. This and the draconian methods used by the few meet
processing and distributing companies and feed companies has resulted
in unhealthy and toxic environments, untested genetically modified
feed and animals…with most not allowed to or even able to walk, and a
global distribution network for tainted burgers already in place based
on each burger being an amalgamation of hundreds of cows with almost
no health regulation in place. And, that regulation which is in place
is mostly financed by the very industry being regulated. You do the
math…
http://www.foodincmovie.com/
On Nov 20, 8:29 am, Tom <ssoitg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think the animals have to even be "free range" but just kept at a
> population density that is not leathal. Pork is a very lucrative livestock
> in general, it is one of the very few things we export to China.Chinese
> demand for pork is huge. China is set to remove import barriers to pork:http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dj-cme-livestock-review-chinaus-pork...
> > memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
“industrial scale stuff” has all but taken over the beef, poultry and
feed industries. This and the draconian methods used by the few meet
processing and distributing companies and feed companies has resulted
in unhealthy and toxic environments, untested genetically modified
feed and animals…with most not allowed to or even able to walk, and a
global distribution network for tainted burgers already in place based
on each burger being an amalgamation of hundreds of cows with almost
no health regulation in place. And, that regulation which is in place
is mostly financed by the very industry being regulated. You do the
math…
http://www.foodincmovie.com/
On Nov 20, 8:29 am, Tom <ssoitg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think the animals have to even be "free range" but just kept at a
> population density that is not leathal. Pork is a very lucrative livestock
> in general, it is one of the very few things we export to China.Chinese
> > <memphisfreethoughtalliance%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<memphisfreethoughtalliance%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=.
>
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>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > > > .
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> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=.
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>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=.- Hide quoted text -
> > For more options, visit this group at
>
> - Show quoted text -
Liz Purkrabek
Nov 20, 2009, 5:53:25 PM11/20/09
to memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
I'm reading The Omnivore's Dilemma. It's been a great book on just this
topic. Our food system is beyond scary. More like deadly.
-----Original Message-----
From: ornamentalmind [mailto:ornamen...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
Subject: Re: Industrial Agriculture and sustaining increase carrying
capacity of the Earth
memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com.
topic. Our food system is beyond scary. More like deadly.
-----Original Message-----
From: ornamentalmind [mailto:ornamen...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
Subject: Re: Industrial Agriculture and sustaining increase carrying
capacity of the Earth
Clogtowner
Nov 21, 2009, 9:48:00 AM11/21/09
to Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
Hi y'all - please don't take away my faith in burgers - I have nothing
left!
> ...
>
> read more »
left!
>
> read more »
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