Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a theory 2. Evolution has never been p

[MANUEL RAMIREZ]

Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time
1. Evolution is just a theory
2. Evolution has never been proven to be a fact
3. Evolution is statistically impossible
4. Evolution is unobservable therefore unscientific
5. Evolutionist can not really explain how life began
6. Evolutionists can not explain how the first cell was able to reproduce itself
7. Ape to man findings are hoaxes and lies
8. There are no findings of elements evolving
9. Evolution can not explain how some blob came to life
10. Evolution can not explain the orderliness and complexity of DNA
11. Evolution can not explain how cells divide
12. Evolution can not explain why we have flowering and non flowering plants, either they flower or they don't
13. There is no evidence of micro or macro evolution anywhere at anytime
14. Evolution can not explain where energy or matter came from
15. Evolutionists can only guess what they think man will look like in the future
16. Evolutionists keep changing their ideas whenever they are refuted

[Matt Germany]

Manuel,

What do you think the word theory means in a scientific context?

--Matt

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[Matt Germany]

Also, as far as #4 goes.  You're completely wrong.  Read about it, if you'd like:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment

I first read about that experiment in Dawkins' The Greatest Show on Earth.  Pretty neat.

--Matt

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:50 AM, MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com> wrote:

[Matt Germany]

As for #5, evolutionary theory has never been an attempt to explain how life began (you got one half-way right, at least).  It's the best explanation we have for how life has diversified over time, not how it began.

--Matt

[Matt Germany]

I could keep going if you'd like.  Just let me know.

Ignorance about an concept doesn't invalidate that concept.  If you really have uncertainties about evolutionary theory, pick up some books (written BY REAL SCIENTISTS INSTEAD OF CHRISTIAN APOLOGISTS) or look up some studies in scientific journals.  You might find the subject interesting.  I know I did after I started reading about it.

I went to a Christian high school, so my biology class was mostly a waste of time.  The teacher literally said about the chapter on evolution (a large portion of the textbook), "We're not gonna spend a lot of time on this," because there was an understanding that everyone already knew that the all animals were created on a few days after the universe's birth by a magic sky man and we only needed to know about this bullcrap for state testing.

I eventually came to disagree.  I've since ploughed through the Origin of Species, The Greatest Show on Earth, and all sorts of neat articles in scientific publications.  Having been on both sides of this, I can tell you, "the evolution is bullshit" sentiment only makes sense if you look at the evidence through a cloudy, creationist lens.

--Matt

[MemphisBill]

Where did you come from?

[Matt Germany]

#16 is my favorite.  I really love when anti-science folks smugly through phrases like that around without realizing that that's exactly how science works how science works. Things are only right until they're not.  All science is constantly (dare I say it?) evolving.  Scientists are always trying to come up with better explanations of how the world works based upon the best data they can get.

--Matt

--

[fun4alll]

Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time:
Evolution has demonstrated its value as we mature our tools on genetics, study the origin of disease, and examine our own genome. Religion offers us a linty of presumed miracles of no explanatory value... Which one is the scam?
1. Evolution is just a theory:
Yes, just as is the atomic theory; this is not a slap, and does not refute that atoms exist, just because it's 'just a theory'.

2. Evolution has never been proven to be a fact

Look up the definition of theory, proofs are for math. Real world sciences use theories. Get over it.

3. Evolution is statistically impossible

Presumably creationism is statistically sensible? Our current working version of evolution, which continues to be matured, does a better at explaining all of the interrelationships of life on earth, as opposed to what exactly, that everything was made just like this, and ll of the overlapping genes and skeletal structures mean nothing. Theists believe we have a god given brain.... If so, it's meant to be used.

4. Evolution is unobservable therefore unscientific

It's observed in rapidly reproducing life, which is why we have antibiotic resistant strains of disease yes, thy are adapting, our diseases are NOT a punishment for homosexuality as your anti-evolution breather-in would claim.

5. Evolutionist can not really explain how life began

It was not intended to. It can't explain how to prepare tasty oatmeal cookies either.

6. Evolutionists can not explain how the first cell was able to reproduce itself

This is silly, if its a real cell, then it can reproduce itself like any other cell does. The better question is how the first self replicating cell came into existence. That's a more compelling question, but evolution only applies after this event and not before, see question 5.

7. Ape to man findings are hoaxes and lies

Apes didn't turn into man, apes are modern creatures that exist in our time frame. We share a common ancestor which was neighbor a man, not a modern ape. Thanks for clarifying my suspicion that you knowledge of evolution is quite limited.

8. There are no findings of elements evolving

Elements? I can't answer a nonsense question. Nice try.

9. Evolution can not explain how some blob came to life

I suppose that repeating #5 suffices for you as clever, but I'll choose to refrain from repeating my answer above.

10. Evolution can not explain the orderliness and complexity of DNA

It does actually, that's one of its most impressive characteristics, as stated above in 3, I'll not repeat myself.

11. Evolution can not explain how cells divide

Ahhh, now it's time to repeat question number 6, with the term divide replacing reproduce. How clever. See answer above

12. Evolution can not explain why we have flowering and non flowering plants, either they flower or they don't

I imagine there is a bible quote that speaks of flower plants, spare us. The tight relationship between plants and insects gave us flowers. Once again, evolution alone makes it all so clear and coherent. It's a beautiful explanation, but ideas are of no utility to a closed mind.

13. There is no evidence of micro or macro evolution anywhere at anytime

See antibiotic resistant germs from question 4, hey, don't leave any question not repeated. Yawn.

14. Evolution can not explain where energy or matter came from

Ahh, back to number 5 again, and where are my oatmeal cookies. Your dullness is making me hungry.

15. Evolutionists can only guess what they think man will look like in the future

Wrong, it predicts that we will look like what we need to look like in order to remain well adapted to the environmental conditions of the future, whatever they may be.

16. Evolutionists keep changing their ideas whenever they are refuted

Continuous improvement is a good thing, it's how all of the sciences have matured and continue to mature. Sure, the creationists story is static, primitive, and useless, and for its stability you are it's cheerleader. I'll take value of stability any day. We should move forward, and not be satisfied with dogma.

[Matt Germany]

Three cheers to you, Fun4all!

I was too busy to go through it line by line.  I'm glad you could hit all the high points.

Funny Manuel has kept silent since his attempted jab failed to land.

--Matt

[Orson Zedd]

So Mr. Creationist, who created God?  Are you really going to expect me to believe an all powerful deity always existed for purely naturalistic reasons?

[Matt Germany]

I would supplement your response to #7 though.  You were spot on, but  I think there Manuel's getting at how some fossils were faked in the 18th-19th century, sometimes by hucksters hoping to sell tickets to their sideshows other times by scientists (I read about one such example of this on Cracked:  http://www.cracked.com/article_20212_the-6-greatest-acts-trolling-in-history-science.html) for shits and giggles or for fame.

However, once fakes have been exposed as such, they are no longer relied upon by evolutionary theorists.  The fact that some conmen and desperate/bored scientists

 have faked some fossils, doesn't invalidate all other fossils ever found as fakes.  It means the fake fossils can't be relied upon in the study of evolution.  It doesn't mean real fossils can't be studied or aren't useful for understanding how evolution happens.  That's not how logic works.

Hope Fun4all and I have cleared everything up for you, Manuel.  Experience tells me you'll probably just ignore all of this though.  But like I said before, I'd encourage you to pick up a book written by a biologist or look at some scientific papers on evolution if you do still have trouble understanding why we think evolution is the best explanation we've got for how humans and other species became what they are today.

--Matt

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Matt Germany <matt.ge...@gmail.com> wrote:

[MANUEL RAMIREZ]

If you've been led to our friendly forums, it's because the LORD is tugging on your soul, gently wooing you into a life of Love! Don't throw away this opportunity! Look deeply into your sad, hollow heart, take note of all the things you don't like about yourself. Know that God hates that even more than you (as well as things to which you are completely ignorant through self-denial and cognitive dissonance), and yet He will still consider accepting you as His Own if you but have faith in His Son, Jesus. Will you do that? Will you discard your pathetic life as it is now, the life that never got you anywhere, and instead embrace a New Life? Embrace a Life with Christ! It's easy! You can start with this Sinner's Prayer:

Dear LORD,

I acknowledge that you, Jesus, are the Son of God. I believe that you were born of the Virgin Mary in a miraculous way (impregnating her with the Holy Spirit, which is You, without her knowledge or consent, or even the benefit of physical sperm, but by the very will of God, who is, amazingly, also You). I believe you died on the cross for my sins. I believe you were resurrected, floated up into the air, through the atmosphere, and straight to Heaven. I know that your divine nature means you were impervious to the physical effects of the lack of oxygen in space, that your divine body saved you from any danger of your blood boiling, your eyeballs exploding, or your lungs turning into red slush.

I admit that I was born a sinner by your design, and there is nothing I could have done to prevent it. I know I have led a life of sinning by not obeying your every command. It tears me up inside. My guilt is overwhelming.

Please forgive me.

Please change my heart so I can be a willing slave and do whatever you want me to do.

Please change my heart to want to read the Holy Bible and agree with all of it.

Be my Savior.

By my LORD and Master.

I beg you, save me from the very Hell you created for me in the beginning of time in case I didn't fear and obey you.

In Jesus' Name I pray.

[Michael Stanfill]

Who in their right mind would want to join a religion that has a hateful god?

---

From: MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com>
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a theory 2. Evolution has never been p

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[gas...@aol.com]

Been there, done that, eye's were open to reality. 

memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com

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[Matt Germany]

Manuel,

Why are you here?

I'd like to know.  Really.

Furthermore, does that work?  Ever?

That must be really neat.  I'd love it if every time anyone disagreed with me I could just pull some tired heart-strings argument out of my back pocket and everything would be fixed.

That would be SO neat!  Guantanamo would be shut down.  The U.S. would have reasonable gun control laws.  The DoJ wouldn't undermine the 1st Amendment.  It would be great!

I'm really fighting the urge to say, "Screw off, Manny."

So, can you tell me?  Why are you here?

--Matt

[Orson Zedd]

I'm with a group of atheists, therefore God must be workon on my
heart? I don't understand that shit. I'm on a group of atheists and
freethinkers because I'm both

>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com>
>> *To:* memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is

[fun4alll]

>I believe that you were born of the Virgin Mary in a miraculous way (impregnating her with the Holy Spirit, which is You, without her knowledge or consent, or even the benefit of physical sperm, but by the very will of God, who is, amazingly, also You)

I don't anger easily, especially by people that mean well. This manual fella is devout, and is taking time out of his day to try to do something he believes is wholesome. Why should anyone get angry at a person like that? I get far more annoyed at people that are deliberately insulting, rude, and crass. I'd much rather see 'those' folks go away, or folk I should say; there's only one, and that unwelcome troll knows who he is.

Nevertheless, I just had to highlight that one particular sentence above, OMG, just consider that aspect of Emanuel's belief system. "without her knowledge or consent"! We have concise words to describe events such as these, it's called rape, and the prodigy of such events by the unmarried also have a concise term; they are referred to as bastards. If the hero of their story is the illegitimate bastard offspring of a raping god, it's sure a sad way to start things off, and adding in that extra bit about "the benefit of physical sperm", well... That's just really creepy. So sorry Mary, that you had to go without this "benefit", but I guess that's just how this god rolls, so i guess you'll just had to take this the dry way, bummer. After all, it's not as if you had much of a chance in fighting this fella off, but to go without his "benefit" too, I suppose that just made it worse. Can't we just tweak this story a tad and pretend that Mary was more inviting, and perhaps even had a really good time with Mr big? That would have been a better beginning, sooooo, lets make it so, and accept my minor revisions.

[MANUEL RAMIREZ]

 we’re at an impasse.
You do not accept anything axiomatic or logically rational as an acceptable argument.
Even if you were to do so, I doubt that we could agree to stipulate upon the same axiomatic or logically rational concepts.

We proponents of this and many more social study contentions cannot prove them to them to the standard of proof required by you and those agreeing with you. 

On the other hand you and those agreeing with you cannot disprove them or prove any refuting concept to the standard you wish to hold us to.

Similarly no one can prove or disprove to your standard that 2 + 2 = 4. Do you contend because we’re unable to prove it, 2 + 2 doesn’t equal 4?

Respectfully

[Orson Zedd]

How is God logically rational as an explanation. What does God even
explain? Where does God come from? Why does he get a pass on
empiricism when science doesn't?

" We proponents of this and many more social study contentions cannot
prove them to them to the standard of proof required by you and those
agreeing with you. "

That means what you propose is total bullshit, frankly.

[Robert]

Once again, you refuse to discuss even one point of your original post.
Posters answered them, but you cannot seem to follow through on their
points. Instead, you post a prayer then punt. The standard is that of
empirical evidence. If you ever care to actually discuss evolution based on
evidence then please pick a point and we'll hash it out based on scientific
evidence not on revelation or belief.

-----Original Message-----
From: MANUEL RAMIREZ
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 10:00 AM
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a
theory 2. Evolution has never been p

we�re at an impasse.

you contend because we�re unable to prove it, 2 + 2 doesn�t equal 4?

Respectfully

[Michael Stanfill]

Manual Ramirez is making the claim of a god, so the burden of proof is on him.  Nice try at shifting the burden, but no cigar.

---

From: MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com>
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a theory 2. Evolution has never been p

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[fun4alll]

Manuel suggested that I'm not being logical, which has been an interesting change of pace for me. I more often told I'm being exceeding logical, to a fault. My suspicion is that he equates belief with logic. Logic is a virtue to me, and faith is for I him. But I don't want to challenge that. People find comfort in their faith, and that's fine for them. However, my thought process lends itself toward reason, and not belief, so I'm a tough sell, and Manuel probably finds that frustrating. He's a good guy, and we shouldn't pick on him. However, he needs to know that repetitive science nay-sayers and bible prophesies are not going to be an effective recruiting strategy among rational thinkers.

I was really hoping to get some response from him regarding the 'unwilling' Mary. That's a big deal!

[Michael Stanfill]

S I N = Self Inflicted Nonsense

There is no sin, and it's part of the biggest lie,(original sin), from religions like xtianity.

---

From: MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com>
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a theory 2. Evolution has never been p

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[Michael Stanfill]

Is Manual Ramirez the same poster know as  truechristian JesusIsLove(ALABAMA) on the Google Groups Forum, Atheists vs Christians?  The below very same post was made there on May 14th @ 10:52 AM.

https://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity/browse_thread/thread/6305fab9508604f8/5327979e2824eb1b?hl=en&

From: MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com>
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:00 AM

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Disclaimer: This MFA Forum is a public site and does not necessarily express the official opinion of Memphis Freethought Alliance, Inc. or its members.  Posters on this forum include MFA members as well as non-members.  People are encouraged to give their honest opinion about ideas and critique other people's ideas and not to attack people personally. Please keep posts open, honest, and civil.  Please review the the rules and guidelines to this forum: http://www.memphisfreethought.com/DiscussionForum.html (copy and paste the web address into your browser if necessary)

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[Robert]

As I mentioned in a trolls reply post, he is undoubtedly using the sacred shotgun to blast multiple sites at a time.  Hence, no particulars or specific responses.  He is not interested in any discourse.  Just wants us to hopefully recite the prayer and magically the Holy Spirit will descend and help us see the light.  Interesting ...he elevates Alabama by using all caps, but not for Jebus.

memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com

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[MANUEL RAMIREZ]

So-called new atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens have denounced religious belief as not only retrograde but evil; they regard themselves as the vanguard of a campaign to expunge it from human consciousness. Religion, they claim, creates divisions, strife, and warfare; it imprisons women and brainwashes children; its doctrines are primitive, unscientific, and irrational, essentially the preserve of the unsophisticated and gullible.

These writers are wrong -- not only about religion, but also about politics -- because they are wrong about human nature. Homo sapiens is also Homo religiosus. As soon as we became recognizably human, men and women started to create religions. We are meaning-seeking creatures. While dogs, as far as we know, do not worry about the canine condition or agonize about their mortality, humans fall very easily into despair if we don’t find some significance in our lives. Theological ideas come and go, but the quest for meaning continues. So God isn’t going anywhere. And when we treat religion as something to be derided, dismissed, or destroyed, we risk amplifying its worst faults. Whether we like it or not, God is here to stay, and it’s time we found a way to live with him in a balanced, compassionate manner.

[Matt Germany]

[Citations needed.]

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 7:59 PM, MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com> wrote:

So-called new atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens have denounced religious belief as not only retrograde but evil; they regard themselves as the vanguard of a campaign to expunge it from human consciousness. Religion, they claim, creates divisions, strife, and warfare; it imprisons women and brainwashes children; its doctrines are primitive, unscientific, and irrational, essentially the preserve of the unsophisticated and gullible.

These writers are wrong -- not only about religion, but also about politics -- because they are wrong about human nature. Homo sapiens is also Homo religiosus. As soon as we became recognizably human, men and women started to create religions. We are meaning-seeking creatures. While dogs, as far as we know, do not worry about the canine condition or agonize about their mortality, humans fall very easily into despair if we don’t find some significance in our lives. Theological ideas come and go, but the quest for meaning continues. So God isn’t going anywhere. And when we treat religion as something to be derided, dismissed, or destroyed, we risk amplifying its worst faults. Whether we like it or not, God is here to stay, and it’s time we found a way to live with him in a balanced, compassionate manner.

[Leo Alessi]

I like it that you confirm religion and all of its trappings, including the deities, are man-made. I think there may be hope for you yet.

On May 15, 2013, at 7:59 PM, MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com> wrote:

> So-called new atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens have denounced religious belief as not only retrograde but evil; they regard themselves as the vanguard of a campaign to expunge it from human consciousness. Religion, they claim, creates divisions, strife, and warfare; it imprisons women and brainwashes children; its doctrines are primitive, unscientific, and irrational, essentially the preserve of the unsophisticated and gullible.
>
> These writers are wrong -- not only about religion, but also about politics -- because they are wrong about human nature. Homo sapiens is also Homo religiosus. As soon as we became recognizably human, men and women started to create religions. We are meaning-seeking creatures. While dogs, as far as we know, do not worry about the canine condition or agonize about their mortality, humans fall very easily into despair if we don’t find some significance in our lives. Theological ideas come and go, but the quest for meaning continues. So God isn’t going anywhere. And when we treat religion as something to be derided, dismissed, or destroyed, we risk amplifying its worst faults. Whether we like it or not, God is here to stay, and it’s time we found a way to live with him in a balanced, compassionate manner.
>

[Michael Stanfill]

This is more copy and paste from probably a copyrighted source:

http://www.samharris.org/media/killing_the_buddha.pdf/P100

Think Again: God

By Karen Armstrong

So-called new atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens have denounced religious belief as not only retrograde but evil; they regard themselves as the vanguard of a campaign to expunge it from human consciousness.

Go to article

---

From: MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com>
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:59 PM

Subject: Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a theory 2. Evolution has never been p

So-called new atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens have denounced religious belief as not only retrograde but evil; they regard themselves as the vanguard of a campaign to expunge it from human consciousness. Religion, they claim, creates divisions, strife, and warfare; it imprisons women and brainwashes children; its doctrines are primitive, unscientific, and irrational, essentially the preserve of the unsophisticated and gullible.

These writers are wrong -- not only about religion, but also about politics -- because they are wrong about human nature. Homo sapiens is also Homo religiosus. As soon as we became recognizably human, men and women started to create religions. We are meaning-seeking creatures. While dogs, as far as we know, do not worry about the canine condition or agonize about their mortality, humans fall very easily into despair if we don’t find some significance in our lives. Theological ideas come and go, but the quest for meaning continues. So God isn’t going anywhere. And when we treat religion as something to be derided, dismissed, or destroyed, we risk amplifying its worst faults. Whether we like it or not, God is here to stay, and it’s time we found a way to live with him in a balanced, compassionate manner.

[Michael Stanfill]

Here is a pdf of the below copy and paste job:

http://www.uwo.ca/chaplain/crc/articles/god_foreign_policy.pdf

I hope this doesn't violate any rules or laws.

---

From: MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com>
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:59 PM

Subject: Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a theory 2. Evolution has never been p

So-called new atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens have denounced religious belief as not only retrograde but evil; they regard themselves as the vanguard of a campaign to expunge it from human consciousness. Religion, they claim, creates divisions, strife, and warfare; it imprisons women and brainwashes children; its doctrines are primitive, unscientific, and irrational, essentially the preserve of the unsophisticated and gullible.

These writers are wrong -- not only about religion, but also about politics -- because they are wrong about human nature. Homo sapiens is also Homo religiosus. As soon as we became recognizably human, men and women started to create religions. We are meaning-seeking creatures. While dogs, as far as we know, do not worry about the canine condition or agonize about their mortality, humans fall very easily into despair if we don’t find some significance in our lives. Theological ideas come and go, but the quest for meaning continues. So God isn’t going anywhere. And when we treat religion as something to be derided, dismissed, or destroyed, we risk amplifying its worst faults. Whether we like it or not, God is here to stay, and it’s time we found a way to live with him in a balanced, compassionate manner.

[Orson Zedd]

Evolution is basically the universe's microwave. It's a labor saving
device. Any creation deity with a brain in its head would be stupid
not to use it.

On 5/15/13, Michael Stanfill <mpsta...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This is more copy and paste from probably a copyrighted source:
>
> http://www.samharris.org/media/killing_the_buddha.pdf/P100
>
>
> Think Again: God
> By Karen Armstrong
> So-called new atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and
> Christopher Hitchens have denounced religious belief as not only
> retrograde but evil; they regard themselves as the vanguard of a
> campaign to expunge it from human consciousness.

> memphisfreethoughta...@googlegroups.com

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[Orson Zedd]

If God created the universe as it is now, he did a piss poor rushed
job. He could have taken his time, made it so we don't choke easily,
or have back problems, but he didn't see fit to correct his issues.

[Michael Stanfill]

He also screwed up his creation on Earth, and then proceeded to kill every man, woman and innocent child by allegedly flooding the planet.  If this genocidal, homicidal, and infanticidal maniac for a god turned out to be a real, it would be unworthy of any kind of worship.

---

From: Orson Zedd <ninte...@gmail.com>
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:56 PM

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[fun4alll]

>So-called new atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens have denounced religious belief as not only retrograde but evil; they regard themselves as the vanguard of a campaign to expunge it from human consciousness. Religion, they claim, creates divisions, strife, and warfare; it imprisons women and brainwashes children; its doctrines are primitive, unscientific, and irrational, essentially the preserve of the unsophisticated and gullible.

Well... Yes, they do suggest that. It's a tad harsh to use the terms irrational and unsophisticated, but there quite a bit of truth buried in there.

>These writers are wrong -- not only about religion, but also about politics -- because they are wrong about human nature. Homo sapiens is also Homo religiosus. As soon as we became recognizably human, men and women started to create religions. We are meaning-seeking creatures. While dogs, as far as we know, do not worry about the canine condition or agonize about their mortality, humans fall very easily into despair if we don’t find some significance in our lives.

Oh really, you should see what my dog does during a thunder storm. He is most definitely in despair, agonizing with worry. In an earlier age, man invented Thor, the lightning god, someone to pray to for relief and comfort. I imagine you're not honestly suggesting that fearful children should be told of Thor. Yes, people have their fears, generated by parts of their brain that closely resemble structures found in the brains of dogs. Yes, every generation of children will be blighted by these fears, but prayer to Thor and his fellow gods is just one means of finding comfort. As others speak of vengeful Jelous gods, I tell my children about electrical discharges and ionizing gas. Not only are there alternatives to the gods, but having smarter more successful kids is a nice bonus.

>Theological ideas come and go, but the quest for meaning continues. So God isn’t going anywhere. And when we treat religion as something to be derided, dismissed, or destroyed, we risk amplifying its worst faults. Whether we like it or not, God is here to stay, and it’s time we found a way to live with him in a balanced, compassionate manner.

Fear of the dark, paranoia, and syphilis are here to stay too, that doesn't mean I need to make peace with them. We can suppress these blights upon humanity to minimize their destructive influence. Perhaps the list is incomplete, append god to the end, and then pile on the other annoinces thereafter.

[Shanon White]

If I simply reply to this email is that sufficient for the group or do I go to a forum type place?  I havent "google group"ed before...

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[Matt Germany]

Folks,

Like I said before, I think Manny is clearly trolling us. Only one of his posts on this thread were responsive to the posts of this forums other members:

 we’re at an impasse.
You do not accept anything axiomatic or logically rational as an acceptable argument.
Even if you were to do so, I doubt that we could agree to stipulate upon the same axiomatic or logically rational concepts.

We proponents of this and many more social study contentions cannot prove them to them to the standard of proof required by you and those agreeing with you. 

On the other hand you and those agreeing with you cannot disprove them or prove any refuting concept to the standard you wish to hold us to.

Similarly no one can prove or disprove to your standard that 2 + 2 = 4. Do you contend because we’re unable to prove it, 2 + 2 doesn’t equal 4?

Respectfully

Other than that, it's been mostly prayers or arguments tangentially related to the first one.  I think Michael and Robert are right about this guy that he's reposting or spamming to a bunch of atheist forums at once take as evidence the following sentence he posted a while back:

If you've been led to our friendly forums, it's because the LORD is tugging on your soul, gently wooing you into a life of Love! Don't throw away this opportunity!

Led to whose friendly forums?

This guy's a troll, and I'm done engaging with him.  I think you guys should be done with him too.  As far as I can tell, we're arguing with a wall here.

--Matt

[Martin Atkins]

Emails work the same as posts.

Welcome!

[Yackie]

@Shannon. welcome. It looks like you did it right.

 

@ Manny." As soon as we became recognizably human, men and women started to create religions."

 

I think that is the most telling sentence in all of your posts. Humans created religion.

I believe this statement. I do not believe it compels me to believe in a God, or a religion.

On Monday, May 13, 2013 10:50:36 AM UTC-5, MANUEL RAMIREZ wrote:

Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time
1. Evolution is just a theory

2. Evolution has never been proven to be a fact
3. Evolution is statistically impossible
4. Evolution is unobservable therefore unscientific
5. Evolutionist can not really explain how life began
6. Evolutionists can not explain how the first cell was able to reproduce itself
7. Ape to man findings are hoaxes and lies
8. There are no findings of elements evolving
9. Evolution can not explain how some blob came to life
10. Evolution can not explain the orderliness and complexity of DNA
11. Evolution can not explain how cells divide
12. Evolution can not explain why we have flowering and non flowering plants, either they flower or they don't
13. There is no evidence of micro or macro evolution anywhere at anytime
14. Evolution can not explain where energy or matter came from
15. Evolutionists can only guess what they think man will look like in the future
16. Evolutionists keep changing their ideas whenever they are refuted

[Matt Germany]

Fun4all,

In light of my more nuanced posts I've offered on this thread, it seems a bit arbitrary, but, nevertheless...

Troll alert?

--Matt

--

[Shanon White]

Thanks!  I tend to reply to complete trolls because a lot of times these people just hang out with and deal with like minded people and rarely have meanigful dialog with anyone outside their little group --and when they do, people who don't share their beliefs just sorta go "oh kaaay...." and back away slowly... or change the subject rather than confront them.   So even though it seems like you're "talking to a wall" you really may be providing a much needed perspective --that though they will never admit it to you, forces them to at least begin to examine things they took for granted before in thier comfortable echo chamber of like-minded people.

[Yackie]

good point Shannon.. I still like the troll alert thing. not everyone wants to deal with these people.

[Shanon White]

Well who can blame you :)   If they're still obviously not even aware of what a theory is, it's not gonna be easy to explain ring speciation.

[Shanon White]

It is convenient however that we're given all the main bogus arguments of creationism numbered for easy rebuttal... 

Here's a nice set of videos I found on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY

[Shanon White]

Hahah ok I take back what I said... Manuel is joking.  It's brilliant.   You almost had me there for a minute...  Well played.

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:49 PM, MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com> wrote:

 NASA Gets it Wrong Again: Satan is not Throwing Rocks at Earth!
I was in the church office this morning preparing this Sunday’s bible class when an email came across my desk about another lie from that wicked organization known as NASAtan.

First, they wanted us to accept that the earth is spherical instead of flat like the Bible clearly teaches it is…

1 Sam 2:8b

"...for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them."

Job 9:6

"Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble."

And now, they want us to believe that our world is in danger of being hit by large, out-of-control rocks called meteors floating around in space that would devastate and kill all life as we know it. But lo and behold, they now say there are far fewer of these rocks than was once thought.

True Christians™ understand that this may be a good sign: maybe these rock findings will get fewer and fewer until there are none. Maybe in time, Jesus will stick his wonderful, blond-haired head into the welded-closed hearts of NASAtan’s ungodly scientists and help them to see the truth as it has been foretold in the Bible. Maybe a few of them will even escape Hell. With God, all is possible. (Mark 9:23)

But how dumb do scientists think we are? This cockamimi story about flying rocks in space is as full of as many holes as a cathylick priest sees on an altar boy; the story doesn’t even make sense; if giant rocks are in space moving towards earth, someone had to have thrown them at us, right? But who could it have been? Not humans. Not angels because the angels only care about us and God’s holy business. That just leaves demons. But demons have no need to throw stones, just the Godly as they carry out biblical laws against witches, homosexuals, and blasphemers. (Exodus 22:18; Lev. 18:22; 24:14)

And scientists are quite stupid for another reason—they give names to these rocks that they say might be coming to hit us. Why name a giant rock that we can’t even see coming but is just supposedly “out there” in “space” somewhere? Doesn’t make any sense, folks, and it certainly isn’t in the Bible.

It is my prayer that Jesus may show the scientists of NASAtan the error of their ways before it is eternally too late.

[Robert]

What do you know? A limey troll, perhaps....

-----Original Message-----
From: MANUEL RAMIREZ
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:49 PM
To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a
theory 2. Evolution has never been p

NASA Gets it Wrong Again: Satan is not Throwing Rocks at Earth!

I was in the church office this morning preparing this Sunday�s bible class

when an email came across my desk about another lie from that wicked
organization known as NASAtan.

First, they wanted us to accept that the earth is spherical instead of flat

like the Bible clearly teaches it is�

1 Sam 2:8b

"...for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world
upon them."

Job 9:6

"Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble."

And now, they want us to believe that our world is in danger of being hit by
large, out-of-control rocks called meteors floating around in space that
would devastate and kill all life as we know it. But lo and behold, they now
say there are far fewer of these rocks than was once thought.

True Christians� understand that this may be a good sign: maybe these rock

findings will get fewer and fewer until there are none. Maybe in time, Jesus
will stick his wonderful, blond-haired head into the welded-closed hearts of

NASAtan�s ungodly scientists and help them to see the truth as it has been

foretold in the Bible. Maybe a few of them will even escape Hell. With God,
all is possible. (Mark 9:23)

But how dumb do scientists think we are? This cockamimi story about flying
rocks in space is as full of as many holes as a cathylick priest sees on an

altar boy; the story doesn�t even make sense; if giant rocks are in space

moving towards earth, someone had to have thrown them at us, right? But who
could it have been? Not humans. Not angels because the angels only care

about us and God�s holy business. That just leaves demons. But demons have

no need to throw stones, just the Godly as they carry out biblical laws
against witches, homosexuals, and blasphemers. (Exodus 22:18; Lev. 18:22;
24:14)

And scientists are quite stupid for another reason�they give names to these

rocks that they say might be coming to hit us. Why name a giant rock that we

can�t even see coming but is just supposedly �out there� in �space�
somewhere? Doesn�t make any sense, folks, and it certainly isn�t in the

Bible.

It is my prayer that Jesus may show the scientists of NASAtan the error of
their ways before it is eternally too late.

[JESUSISLOVEALABAMA]

I had a crew over last week to clear an ice dam off of my roof which tends to build up during heavy snowfall. The one guy who was doing all the work was a Mexican with a cleft palate, so he didn't talk OK, but at least he didn't fall off the roof. The leader of the crew kept calling him and the other two guys "Negro", although the workers referred to each other as "Primo".

When I asked the kid his name he told me that it was Jose, but when I asked him why his boss kept calling him 'Negro' he didn't seem to understand what I was asking. I didn't get a decent answer so I just assumed that the boss is a racist. I would feel bad if I didn't hire them, again, because I know they need the work, but I just don't need that kind of racism around my house.

(None of these guys were black).

I guess the Mexicans are just as racist as the Blacks and the Asians.   

[JESUSISLOVEALABAMA]

Having all them Mexicans on board really adds authenticity to the
picture. I gotta tell you, when you hear a Mexican accent coming out
of a Chihuahua's mouth, it really solidifies one's pre-conceived
notions about Mexican language, behavior, appearance, and basically
what drives these sad faced little bug-eyed creatures to do th

On 15 maio, 00:12, gasu...@aol.com wrote:
> Been there, done that, eye's were open to reality.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Stanfill <mpstanf...@yahoo.com>
> To: memphisfreethoughtalliance <memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 10:04 pm
> Subject: Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a theory 2. Evolution has never been p
>

> Who in their right mind would want to join a religion that has a hateful god?

>
>    From: MANUEL RAMIREZ <x...@operamail.com>
>  To: memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com

>  Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM

>  Subject: Re: Evolution - The Biggest Scam Of All Time 1. Evolution is just a theory 2. Evolution has never been p
>

> If you've been led to our friendly forums, it's because the LORD is tugging on your soul, gently wooing you into a life of Love! Don't throw away this opportunity! Look deeply into your sad, hollow heart, take note of all the things you don't like about yourself. Know that God hates that even more than you (as well as things to which you are completely ignorant through self-denial and cognitive dissonance), and yet He will still consider accepting you as His Own if you but have faith in His Son, Jesus. Will you do that? Will you discard your pathetic life as it is now, the life that never got you anywhere, and instead embrace a New Life? Embrace a Life with Christ! It's easy! You can start with this Sinner's Prayer:
>
> Dear LORD,
>
> I acknowledge that you, Jesus, are the Son of God. I believe that you were born of the Virgin Mary in a miraculous way (impregnating her with the Holy Spirit, which is You, without her knowledge or consent, or even the benefit of physical sperm, but by the very will of God, who is, amazingly, also You). I believe you died on the cross for my sins. I believe you were resurrected, floated up into the air, through the atmosphere, and straight to Heaven. I know that your divine nature means you were impervious to the physical effects of the lack of oxygen in space, that your divine body saved you from any danger of your blood boiling, your eyeballs exploding, or your lungs turning into red slush.
>
> I admit that I was born a sinner by your design, and there is nothing I could have done to prevent it. I know I have led a life of sinning by not obeying your every command. It tears me up inside. My guilt is overwhelming.
>
> Please forgive me.
>
> Please change my heart so I can be a willing slave and do whatever you want me to do.
>
> Please change my heart to want to read the Holy Bible and agree with all of it.
>
> Be my Savior.
>
> By my LORD and Master.
>
> I beg you, save me from the very Hell you created for me in the beginning of time in case I didn't fear and obey you.
>
> In Jesus' Name I pray.
>

> --
> --
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[fun4alll]

Double troll alert.
This thread is infected. Do not reply, let it die.