display issues (new user)
Edward Reid
The problem that's stopping me from liking it -- and I'm hoping to hear suggestions -- is the extremely wasteful use of space on the small screen. This would be annoying on a large screen, but unless I find a way around it, makes using Memento on a small screen too cramped for me to use.
First, I need table view. List view just doesn't work for my application.
But table view doesn't seem to respect the font choices I make for fields. Letters remain much larger than I need. I see the font choices in list view and card view; why not in table view?
Then there's about two blank lines after every row displayed. Yes, I know, whitespace makes reading easier. But that's only when there's enough room. And I know, selection using fat fingers is hard. But interminable scrolling in a pinhole isn't great either.
And the heading with the column labels is similarly huge.
The result is that in landscape mode (which I need to see enough of my data), I only see three rows of the database! Even in portrait mode I only see seven rows.
Then there's width. Table view adds a row number, which is good, except that it's about ten feet wide. Well, not quite, but it's far wider than it needs to be.
Dates have no formatting option that I've found. They seem to be always displayed with the month fully spelled out, wasting a lot of space.
While I can adjust column widths, the choices are very coarse. And there's a wide margin included within each column, whether I want it or not.
Well, I'm hoping someone will say there's a magic option I can set which causes Memento to make far better use of the limited screen real estate. Otherwise I have to look further.
Edward
Edward Reid
John C
I can tell you first hand I use this for my Insurance business and am able to modify and tweak it at will.
I can code and use the app on my three tablets, my phone and my pc. It's really enhanced what I do.
Are there constraints or things you don't like yes. Can you typically work around them, yes yes.
I've used it for years and it's feature set has grown exponentially over this time.
I'm always excited to see a new update. It always gives me more options to make my life easier.
The programmers totally work with the users and add features based on feedback.
This new beta now has Tasker support which will really move us ahead.
Think positive.
J
Eugene Kartoyev
The name of this post contains "new user", It implies many things, I guess, but with positive thinking - chances are, that all advantages will be explored and database use habits changed - no doubt - for better ones. Databases are not all about tables - tables are about raw database content. A good database is about organizing nice form, selections, sortings, filters, graphs, datatypes, calculations, as well as extraction, concentration and consolidation of currently needed data - all of which are offered by Memento.
Otherwise, if one thinks only about tables - it is much better to use - excel or google sheets. They have all the table-view advantages,because they are specially designed for that - but not Memento's convenience in data manipulation. Besides, maybe it's time to change the small and slow device with tiny screen real estate for a bigger and faster one. A modern 7-inch pad makes life a lot more pleasant in all respects.
But, to get off the Memento subjective criticism and counter-response path a bit, John, I'd rather like to ask you about Tasker. I tried using it about a year ago, -- got excited about what it offers and purchased all kinds of plug-ins automatizing inputs, views and switches. However, after a little while, I realised that with Taskers watchers continuously running in the memory, it drained my battery in no time. I just could't keep my super-pooper latest flagman tab alive for more than a couple of hours.... Solution - neeeh, Tasker goes to the garbage.
I observe some public excitement about Tasker "at last" befalling Memento, too, and maybe, I could revise my attitude, provided Tasker could endow Memento with some really divine breathtaking supernatural capacities that would totally overshine the battery killer issue...
So, the question is -
1) Don't you have the same battery problem using Tasker?
2) What would be the greatest Tasker feature to be heavily used in Memento?
Bill Crews
Don't dismiss specific requirements of other users just because yours don't match them. It could be that Table View and dense data display are real requirements for Edward. That doesn't make Memento a bad tool, but maybe one that won't work for him right now.
By the way, in addition to the Using Tasker wiki page, check out the Triggers wiki page (http://wiki.mementodatabase.com/index.php/Triggers), both for the new Mobile Edition 4.0.0 and Desktop Edition 1.0.5 BETA products only. It isn't only Tasker integration that is coming. There's an Intent app integration model being implemented and a fairly robust event model also being implemented. Vasya is right to move to Release 4 with this. It is a major addition, especially for JavaScript coders who have database integration requirements.
John C
Eugene Kartoyev
you are absolutely right Bill, that dismissing other people's requirements is unacceptable...
BUT
the problem is that other user requirements may be contradictory to mine. So, what do I do if the developer, out of a sudden, listens to all the contradictory requirements and now spoils things down for me?
Let me make a bit exaggerated example regarding the complaint under discussion.
If the row number is ten-feet wide, as Edward said,and it stops him from liking Memento -- but this is perfect for me, exactly the thing that I wanted, and it makes me love Memento!
It may be very uncomfortable for low-resolution screen users, now. So, the proposed solutions are:
1) Make them narrower - it will become eye-straining for me.
2) Leave them as they are - it will leave low-resolution screen users unhappy.
3) Make separate solutions - wide for high resolutions and narrow for low-resolutions. No, there are risks that wasteful memory reservation for all-fit purposes will make low-resolution screen users unable to run Memento at all, because of memory issues.
Once again, it is an exaggerated example, just to give you an idea of what may happen, if developers concentrate on every single requirement.
In Android programming, in many cases - there are no universal dynamic solutions. Everything is programmed separately for each type of screen and resolution. Like - apps have to keep five folders with all the icon duplicates for smart-TVs, tabs, phones, small phones, smartwatches. Apps keep inside all UI translations even if you never use those languages. Apps keep separate modules for one-screen view, divided screen view, TV screen view etc.
The program may grow four times in size in google play and dozens of times when deployed in the memory if absolutely all screens are taken into account, and by hundreds of times if old very versions of Android are included. It will be mandatory for the program to include Android-support libraries to run on all devices, even though you may not need them on your newer device.
As a result, a fit-for-all solution becomes a waste of valuable resources and fit-for-nobody solution.
In Android developer page, it gives you the statistics, something like 90% of people use a higher version of Android than 4.1. A huge share of this number use Android 5+. Thirty percent use tabs, 1% use smartwatches. The developer analyzes that data and concentrates on a bigger share of users. Android development console specifically says - do not try to make a universal solution. If you really want to - make two separate solutions - one for older phones, another for newer ones. Otherwise, your program will become unsustainable.
Memento developers did a great thing by adding a user-voice page. If Edward sends a proposal there, and lots of people agree with it - then, fine. I shut up. Let Memento have tiny headings, itsy-bitsy cells in tables, decorative fonts, no margins, 500 columns and lots of other things for low resolutions. Bad for me, I will become a minority.
Memento is not about some specific individual's liking or disliking. It has become a community-based solution. That's why, my constructive piece of advice was to upgrade the device and enjoy other amenities of a modern phone, rather than complaining that one of the greatest apps on Earth is not running nicely on a small and slow device.
----
As for Tasker, thanks a lot for pointing out the links. I will see what is offered. I adore the presence of such new feautures and will surely start using them, as soon as and if my phone allows it. But, again, no guarantee that tomorrow somebody will not write something, like - "I want to like your Memento thing, but I can't, because tasker doesn't want to run smoothly due to my fat fingers. Hey, developers, you could've done a better job for me!". Sounds like that to me.
Edward Reid
Yes, this is a trivial database -- one table, seven columns.(That's after excising half a dozen columns that I don't really need in the field.) But 21,000 rows, or max 7,000 rows when split up into five DBs. In fact it's an Excel spreadsheet at home. But I tried Sheets and Excel on the phone and found them excruciatingly slow, like minutes just to display. And that was before Sheets crashed ...
I like big screens. I spent thousands of hours programming using the old 24x80 character terminals back in the '70s and '80s. And that was after we got terminals ... did plenty with punched cards and paper tape. I referred those terminals as "24x80 pinholes". I don't want to go back. I have a 21" monitor beside my laptop monitor, and it doesn't matter what I choose for the desktop image because I never see it.
So yes, proper use of screen real estate has been a pet peeve of mine for decades. Cramming too much on a screen is bad too. But when I'm not at my desk, I like being able to carry my data with me. Could not do that thirty years ago.
Eugene: If there's a way to use card view to browse a list, please tell me. And yes, I agree that all my suggestions should be optional. If you are better off with more whitespace, I'm all in favor of providing it for you. The only thing in my list that I'm pretty sure should be changed outright is to respect the font choices in list view. (Four years ago, I could not use a smartphone and could barely use a tablet. Five eye surgeries have changed that. If it weren't for those surgeries, I'd be screaming because everything is too small. So I totally support the ability to adapt displays to the individual.)
John: I did in fact get my data loaded into Memento yesterday and went out into the field -- a cemetery where I'm starting to gather data for findagrave.com. I used it quite successfully. I still want a decent way to scroll through and browse my list. For example, I found later (at home, using Excel) that one name I was looking for was misspelled in the source data. I only found it by browsing the list. Searching and indexing were no help.
I went out on my bicycle. That's one reason I don't want another, and larger, device. Mine is perfectly capable if the app doesn't waste 80% of the screen on blank space.
So I'm trying to work with it. I tried MobiDB; it seems similar to Memento but lacks some features. It does however offer date formatting options and finer column width control. And there's clearly a community here, which is a major advantage. I may try a couple of others I find listed.
I have posted my suggestions to the User Voice forum.
Edward
Eugene Kartoyev
you see, actually as it can be inferred from your comment, you are not asking for a database, you are asking for an efficient table-viewer, like excel or google sheet. But even those, giant applications don't fit your purposes.
Therefore, you are turning to a database application rather than a table-keeper, which is a wise decision. Building a database needs planning. You need to identify repetitive data, and put them into different types of fields and libraries which will be unterconnected and make your database run fast and nicely.
In the card view you can put the most important data into card names. You can pick the needed card to look for more details. You can filter cards by names starting with a specific letter to find the name you have lost. You can group data by anything you want - to get to the needed record easily.
There are tons and tons of things a database can do much better, faster and more efficiently than a raw table, which gets you concentrated on needed data only. If you take the well-known Access or Oracle databases - there, you will probably hate raw tables even worse than Memento's. Normally, tables show raw data, and raw data can't have specific formatting.
As for date customization - the thing you want - it is absolutely possible in Memento by using a javascript or calculation field.
Mobi and Sailform won't offer this solution to you and many others too. I worked with these databases for half a year or so, until I accidentally ran into Memento. When I saw how flexible the field types are in Memento - I went "Oh! So nice!" immediateĺy!
The other dbs have other disadvantages I've described about somewhere else - and the biggest ones - confining data to internal phone memory only - so, you are much more likely to lose your data when you run big volumes of data and decide to include / exclude some part of data. They will simply lose data because of memory limitations when the database app is manipulated in internal cache. Another issue is data migration and forms incompatibility between devices.
In other words, if you decide to keep the same database on several devices some day, like on a phone and on a tab - it will become a mess. You can't just simply copy your database backup from one device to another. You will have to reprogram everything from scratch.
In Memento it is possible to move database from one device to another and it will always look identical - no additional tweaking is required. It's another "So nice!!!" for me. You can keep your database in internal memory or external sd card. You can store pictures / pdfs / everything in a dedicated memory space with your database or outside it, by means of references, so you can always handle memory. Which is important for voluminous data, like yours. You can just copy the database to your friend's device and data will look neat and nice immediately.
You just have more control over everything in Memento. (except maybe white margins and fonts in raw table-view).
Therefore, if you ride a bike, and there is a risk that you lose your phone with valuable data, it is enough to back it up and restore it on a new device, with no effort.
By the way, I contacted the developers of the aforementioned dbs, they say, it's their policy to provide as little control over database storage as possible. I don't know what's it related to, I guess, to their desire to monetize on syncing or something. No coherent answer was received. Unstandardized card view customization confines you to using one device only. You won't use your data in Windows or another phone there.
It's up to you to decide, but for me, as database memory-stability, universality and functionality - Memento is No 1.
As for data organizing concerned, some good advice could be given to you, if you provide more specifically what kind of data you have. And maybe a small sample of your data.
Like, you want your dates to be formatted - I'd do the following
1. Have a field with raw date
2. Establish a calculation field that will format your date
3. Put this field where needed in the card with proper formatting
4. Hide the raw source field for the view mode.
How to do that - you have Memento-wiki, you have many users - who can help you with formulas, and advice.
If you start building a proper database interface, you will see how powerful it is. As for solutions, just provide a more specific question and database sample to receive an answer on an optimal way.
Bill Crews
It is not clear to me that having a developer refine a neglected view a little by doing things like -- removing some actual wasted space and having field display logic access font settings that didn't exist the last time it was updated -- would blow the app up into a monstrosity. It sounds like a simple, light-weight update to me.
Also, it isn't clear to me that it is a zero-sum game. I haven't used the grid view lately, but it is a cool option for when it is needed. It is just an optional view -- no big deal. I can still group, filter, sort, and aggregate as needed. It is a feature, not a bug, not even a completely-different thing.
If I have a concern over the direction of Memento, it isn't a grid view that bothers me. I hope that the focus on businesses using lots of team features like collaboration, comments, flexible sharing, etc will not work against the fundamental user orientation the app has always had.
Maybe someday, Vasya will have customization in the installation process, so some folks will tailor it one way and others another way, like including plug-ins. You already have a bit of that with moment.js. Maybe that would limit the bloat that could otherwise occur. He's been making good decisions so far. I think he will likely continue to do so. Maybe we should all relax a little. But I doubt that refinement of the grid view is high on the priority list right now.
Edward Reid
Sorry about the very delayed response. Yes, actually I have database design experience going back some 40 years, back when "database" only referred to a back end storage system, and all UI was in separate application programs. The integrated versions started coming out in the 1990s. I've worked with databases that have hundreds of tables. I've written SQL, though I'm no expert. I've used Access (ugh). I've used SQLite Spy.
Thanks for the tips on Javascript and calculation fields. I decided that I'm better off just keeping my dates in text fields, yyyy-mm-dd format. I don't need to do calculations, just sorting and comparison, and some dates are missing month, day, or both, and I don't expect a date type to handle this. (BTW, IIRC Mobi does now have date formatting capabilities.)
It's turned out that the data I'm working with is a lot dirtier than I expected, so I've spent a lot of time the past month just cleaning. In the mean time, though, I've quite successfully used Memento to hold enough of this dirty data to help enormously. I can ride into the cemetery and look up a name or location. To do that on paper would require about a ream and would be a lot less convenient. So even as a glorified list manager of very dirty data, it's rather successful.
While I'm cleaning house ... how do I search on other than the first name field? To simplify: I have fields PersonName and Loc, both "name" fields in Memento. When I do a search for a PersonName, it works as I expect. Is there a way to search directly on Loc? All I've found in the Wiki -- and I certainly may have missed a lot -- is to use a wildcard. The Loc field has values like C-52-27. If I search for *C-52 then it appears that I'm getting nearly every record returned. I can set a filter, but that seems to lock me in to specific values.
Edward
Bill Crews
So, have you tried just typing in C-52-27 as a search key?
To my mind, if there is an issue, it would be if too many hits were returned, not likely too few.
Edward Reid
The wiki says "As the user types the search key, the list of recent search keys is replaced by a list of matching entry identifiers (concatenated Name fields) with the library. [,,,] If Enter is pressed instead, the search is executed based on the key value entered, and all entries containing a match in any searchable field are listed."
Sounds good, but "match" isn't defined. In the complete results list it does seem to work as you describe, mostly. You need to add that all words in the search key have to match. (This assumes there's no OR operator present.) So searching for "C 52 28" (sans quotes) returns
GREGORY, ANDREW C-08-52 1964-05-28
ALBRITTON, JANICE C-52-28 nodate
As you can see, it is treating hyphens in the data as word separators rather than as word characters. This is very bad for me. I don't want the first hit above. Of course in this example it doesn't matter, but if I enter "C 01 28" looking for location C-01-28, nine of the ten hits are spurious. There are probably much worse cases, since I have a lot of two-digit numbers, four of them in most records.
It does numerics, but not word starts, even in text fields. If I enter "C 5 2", it returns
CHATHAM, JEFFREY B. C-08-02.5 1966-02-07
VICKERS, MARGARET C-29-01.5 2006-02-14
but not GREGORY, ANDREW C-08-52 1964-05-28
If I enter hyphens in the search key, for example C-52-28, the full results treats them as exclusion operators even though they are not preceded by spaces. That search returns entries with an initial of C in the personal name field, as long as the other fields don't contain 52 or 28. To me this is an outright bug. It is apparently impossible to search for hyphens in data. (Putting quotes in the search string doesn't seem to help.)
The popup list works quite differently, a classic example of confusion caused by modal operation. The popup list returns any entry which contains the literal search key, in any field but starting at the start of a word. Maybe. Confused? I am.
Type C (return NOTHING, OK, acting on a single letter would be extreme)
Type C- (return many results, all those with a location starting with "C-", but not those with "C." in the personal name column)
Type C-5 (return nothing, completely unexplained unless the hyphen causes it to punt)
Entering "CARTER, JOYCE B." returns the record with that personal name in either mode. Entering "CARTER JOYCE B" returns nothing in popup mode but returns the record in full results. Entering "CARTER B JOYCE" does the same. So popup mode searches only for literal strings (except for the hyphen monkeywrench) and full results mode has no way to search for literal strings.
I assume the difference in operation is for performance reasons: the kind of searching involved in the complete results is too slow for a popup list. But the discrepancy is large, striking, and confusing.
I could probably avoid the hyphen problems by using a different separator character. That's arbitrary for the location field, but the hyphen is the ISO standard separator for dates in yyyy mm dd format.
I come back to wanting columns. Is there an equivalent of SQLite Spy for Android? I want to write
select * from namesandlocations where location like 'C-52-%';
select * from namesandlocations where personalname like 'DOHNANYI%' and location like 'A-';
I'd be happy to type that into a GUI, since typing is a lot harder on a phone. Either way, it's a lot easier than trying to explain how Memento search works, unless someone has a much simpler explanation than mine.
OK, so I really don't want full SQLite exposed within Memento. But unless there's another search method that I haven't found, the inconsistencies cause me to rate the search function somewhere around ... well, C-. ;-)
Edward
Bill Crews
I'll be using your very good description of your experience with search to upgrade the wiki regarding search. If you have more to add, please either post or just send to my email.
Eugene Kartoyev
select * from namesandlocations where location like 'C-52-%';
are accomplished with the help of filters.
Searching for C-23, it seems to process tye hyphen as part of the search line if you wrap the line in "double quotes". Like "C-23".