Seasonal Greetings 2017

[Derek Jones]

My thanks to the small but dedicated band of contributors (including several new participants) who have provided us with pictures and reports during 2017, and also to Ken Lansdowne who as always has shouldered most of the burden of checking everyone's postings, approving them for posting to the group's website and for distribution to those receiving them by e-mail (either individually or in digest form).

The Invicta Newsgroup has now been running for eleven years, and inevitably (after the excitement generated by the withdrawal of Volvo Olympians by Stagecoach and other non-DDA compliant double deckers elsewhere in the county during 2016), things have been rather quieter this year.

That isn't to say the group has been inactive for any length of time, and amongst the many topics covered have been the cessation of Poynters in August, the expansion of bus service operation by Regent Coaches of Whitstable, the introduction of "Little & Often" minibuses in Ashford by Stagecoach and of "Arriva Click" on a rather different basis in Sittingbourne; a quantity of new buses for Arriva in Maidstone and Medway (with a few others elsewhere) and for Stagecoach at Hastings and Eastbourne more recently.  The old garage in Tunbridge Wells was finally closed by Arriva in October, and another "end of an era" event saw the East Kent company ceding its National Express activity to The King's Ferry at the end of July, and ceasing to operate coaches as a result. There were bus service changes around Kent with major revisions at Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells in April, and in Dover, Deal and Sandwich in September, while Stagecoach introduced a second open-top service in Thanet which ran during the summer holiday period.

May I take this opportunity to wish everyone the very best for the festive season and for 2018.

Taking up the "Mystery Location" theme that has generated considerable interest this year, here is something a little different for you to puzzle over (and hopefully for someone to solve) during the forthcoming holiday.

There are no vehicles to look at here, but an unusual sign at the front of an unidentified Charrington pub.

The reason for the "No Red Double Decker Buses" sign suggests that it was there to deter visits by those on LT staff outings heading for the coast, so the location (believed, but not confirmed, to be somewhere in Kent) could be along the A2, A20 or A21.

Can anyone identify the location and the name of the pub?

Derek J

[Eric]

Looks like Flimwell to me but I can't remember the name of the pub.  We used to stop there on family outings to Hastings from Edenbridge.

Eric

[Richard Ratcliffe]

I wonder if a clue is the “double aspect” traffic light pole to the left of the mysterious sign?  Does that indicate a railway level crossing ahead?  But this would have been before the days of automatic level crossings.  But that pole looks remarkably modern.   There is a time clue in the ownership of the pub – Charrington had ceased to be a stand alone brewing entity during the 60’s.  Became part of Bass Charrington after the merger with Bass in 1967 and the Charrington name was progressively dropped during the 70’s.

 

All of which is but scratching the surface!

 

Have a good one!

 

Richard Ratty

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[TREVOR GROVES]

Hi All

My guess is also Flimwell, just back from the cross roads.

My second guess is along the old A2 at Teynham but my money is on Flimwell

Merry Christmas

Trevor Groves

----Original message----
From : mdekb...@googlegroups.com
Date : 21/12/2017 - 23:25 (GMTST)
To : Mdekb...@googlegroups.com

Subject : [Invicta] Seasonal Greetings 2017

[TREVOR GROVES]

Hi Derek

Someone mention a railway crossing close by to the pub.

Does this help?

best wishes

Trevor Groves

----Original message----
From : mdekb...@googlegroups.com
Date : 21/12/2017 - 23:25 (GMTST)
To : Mdekb...@googlegroups.com
Subject : [Invicta] Seasonal Greetings 2017

[DRH]

Eric is right.  Send him the Mars bar; I'm on a diet. 

It is the erstwhile Hare & Hounds at Flimwell cross-roads (East Sussex).  

The pub closed many years ago (although no-one told Traveline - it is still a timing point on the 254, Hastings - Hawkhurst - Tunbridge Wells). The building now houses a rustic furniture outlet. .

The only PCVs parked in the pub/furniture outlet car park in my memory were various upmarket Mercedes coaches hired short-term by Mr Roffey's Inland Travel for continental ski and summer holiday work. Maybe in olden days, LT RTs or Routemasters on garage staff days out to Hastings might been tempted to call in. I wonder what caused the publican to discourage them?

But red double-deckers can still be seen nearby at Ham's Travel.

DRH

[michael cockett]

……….and it is not numbered 254 on the Hastings – Hawkhurst section either!!!!

 

From experience the majority of the coaches Southbound and Nortbound used the Blueboys Inn at Kippings Cross. Is the Chef still outside?

 

Michael

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[Group_owner]

Well, that didn't take long to solve - thank you everyone involved for your contributions.

Comparing both of Trevor's pictures with modern Streetview images confirms that both were indeed taken close to the Hare & Hounds.

The first one looks westwards (with the Hare & Hounds itself on the left of the picture), but the second is looking southwards from the Royal Oak (hence the London Road location), and the pub sign post on the left-hand edge of the picture is the one belonging to the latter pub which still trades today. Many of the buildings on the right-hand side of this picture are still there, including the weatherboarded one and (directly ahead of the photographer) the half-timbered building that used to be occupied by Roffey when they traded as Inland Travel and parked coaches in front of it - these buildings are all now set back much further from the road which was realigned and widened here many years ago.

But this raises a further interesting question - why was the junction called a Level Crossing, when there wasn't a railway there?

The nearest that a railway got to Flimwell was at least two miles away at Hawkhurst station, actually at Gill's Green just over a mile to the north of Hawkhurst, at the terminus of the branch line from Paddock Wood, which closed in 1961. See # below.

The crossroads at Flimwell was therefore just a point where two roads crossed, but there were no traffic lights or "Give Way" markings so no-one did so unless provided with something else to alert them to the danger of traffic crossing their path.

My guess is that (given that the picture claims to date from 1931) the national guidelines (these did not become regulations until the 1930s) had not then reached every location, and signs were then less standardised.  The red triangle and such concepts as "Give Way" and "Major Road Ahead" that became recognised on road signs later were not then in widespread use, so "level crossing" was adopted as the nearest suitable warning.

So the "mystery location" slot needs a new picture to get the brain cells back into gear after Christmas - offers welcome!

Derek J

# -  Hawkhurst Station was in any case a terminus, and there had been proposals to extend the line to Rye so the station at Hawkhurst was laid out to enable through trains should the extension ever happen - even now the embankment that would have supported a bridge across what became the A229 can still be seen at what is now the entrance to an industrial estate.  Most of the road crossings between Hawkhurst and Paddock Wood used bridges or tunnels - there were only four level crossings, and the only one on a major road was at Goudhurst Station, on the A262 to the west of that village.

On Friday, 22 December 2017 19:02:08 UTC, trevor wrote:

Hi Derek

Someone mention a railway crossing close by to the pub.

Does this help?

best wishes

Trevor Groves

----Original message----
From : mdekb...@googlegroups.com
Date : 21/12/2017 - 23:25 (GMTST)