Proposed KCC Bus Grant Cuts

[kentishphil]

Link:   Kent County Council urged to reconsider proposed bus cuts in the county (kentonline.co.uk)

[adam williams]

Interesting that the 17 is included - presumably any cuts would retain school-time services.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 at 08:33, kentishphil <gates...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Link:   Kent County Council urged to reconsider proposed bus cuts in the county (kentonline.co.uk)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdekbusclub...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/180683c1-b7f3-4f2c-b2ae-3437fe3c860dn%40googlegroups.com.

--

/adam

[Nicholas King]

In respect of Adam’s posting : as mentioned in my parallel message, it is only the supported evening service on the 17 (two return trips) which is under threat in this exercise.

                The passenger numbers come out at about a dozen per trip, which is better than many others on the list, but I should not be at all surprised if most of those were local at either end of the route, rather than within the Elham Valley.

                Note also the statement by Arriva that the proposed cuts would be “limited”.  That’s because Arriva hardly do any KCC work nowadays.  The effect of the proposals, if carried through, will weigh much more heavily on the smaller operators who are already running these services because Arriva (and to a rather lesser extent Stagecoach) have surrendered them in past years.

 

Nicholas King

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/CAGfFiMFhFTRf%3D_rzRGw13MuW0UunheYM1BdBCiqX_briPAW-Hg%40mail.gmail.com.

Virus-free. www.avg.com

[adam williams]

Nicholas

thanks - we'd long planned to try a few of the pubs down the Elham Valley and use a late 17 to get home - guess we need to do that sooner rather than later!

I'd also heard murmurs that the Thursday-only 111 across the north of the Marsh might be under threat, but not sure if that's true or not.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/001501d824b0%242299abd0%2467cd0370%24%40btinternet.com.

--

/adam

[JFO]

I had also heard things about Route 111 and School Routes 292/293 too, though I was told by a freind in the industry in 2021, that it was a case of other operators being interested in taking on the routes, though as usual I am open to correction on that.
With regard to some of the "Supported Services", does KCC still support the "FastTrack" Routes A & B in North Kent?, I have always been slightly surprised that those Routes need support considering the highly Urban Areas they run though, and their high frequency and patronage, and so in my opinion this would be one to potentially review.

[Nicholas King]

Derek Jones has now posted the relevant details, and yes, the 111 (southern version) is on the list.

                I would gladly join Adam and others in the Elham Valley pubs if I were in Kent, but they themselves seem to be disappearing rather rapidly!

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdekbusclub...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/001501d824b0%242299abd0%2467cd0370%24%40btinternet.com.

 

--

/adam

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdekbusclub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/CAGfFiMH_8i3sRWgLSb%3DabvVqPvPNrc%2BfoZHdmeL573%2BGLdR1sA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Chris]

The consultation has now started, and I was able to pick up a paper copy of the questionnaire today in Ashford library. As it isn't always clear which journeys are subsidised and which aren't, here's a summary of those concerned (with apologies for the terrible formatting!)

Whole services

9 (Chalkwell), 24 (Autocar), 58 (Nu-Venture),  59 (Nu-Venture), 70 (Nu-Venture), 88 (Nu-Venture), 111 (Stagecoach), 123 (Stagecoach), 208 (Go-Coach), 255 (Autocar), 266 (Autocar), 292/299 (Autocar), 293 (Autocar), 296 (Autocar), 332 (Chalkwell), 343/344/345 (Chalkwell), 474/475 (Go-Coach), 502 (Nu-Venture), 541/542/544 (Regent's [sic]), 634 (Regents), 662/664/666 (Chalkwell - note not Stagecoach 666, just the Chalkwell SDO element), 954 (Regents), Detling Shopper (Compaid), E1 (Go-Coach), HC3 (Clarkes Minibuses), HS7/HS8 (Chalkwell), Sandwich Connect (Britannia), S4 (Go-Coach), Tenterden Hopper (Social Hub), TW9 (Go-Coach), X1/X2 (Arriva), All Kent Karrier.

Evening journeys

5 (Arriva) Mon-Sat, 18:44 ex Sandhurst and all later journeys

17 (Stagecoach): Mon-Sat, 1940 ex Folkestone and all later journeys

61/61A (Stagecoach): Mon-Sat, 181 from Whitfield and all later journeys

90/61/61A (Stagecoach): Sundays, 1828 from Aycliffe and all later journeys

Others

6 (Arriva) Sunday diversion through Pembury

6/645 (Stagecoach): 0819 Herne - Hillborough School and afternoon return

8 (Chalkwell): Six off-peak journeys Monday to Friday, plus 1520 Sittingbourne Community College - Teynham

13 (Nu-Venture): Saturday service

222 (Autocar): Four journeys Mon-Friday, all Saturday service. Some Mon-Fri journeys will continue. 

277 (Arriva): 0637 ex Stonecourt Lane Mon-Fri

360 (Chalkwell): Sunday service

433 (Arriva): Sunday service

489 (Arriva): Sunday service

Of course, much is hidden in the detail: Some of the services carrying the largest amount of subsidy have some of the lower costs per passenger journey (e.g. 59 - £126.000, £3.67/passenger, X1/X2 - £207,721, £3.24/passenger), whilst conversely the same can also be true (292/299 - £14,498/68, £24.37/passenger). Personally, I feel this particular measure is missing from the consultation document and would put a slightly different light on some of the "big spending" routes. If the cut off was £4/passenger, rather than £3, 6, 17, 58, 59, 88, 90/61/61A, 208 474/475, 954 and X1/X2 would come off the list, for example. 

It's also fair to say that much could change - whilst perhaps not as likely as pre-Covid, some services may still be declared commercial, others may but to a reduced frequency or revised routing on other services, and some changes may not go through. But as we say in Invicta, "photographers may be advised..."

Chris

[DerekJ]

Thanks Chris

The consultation ends on 20th April, and the online version can be found here - 

https://letstalk.kent.gov.uk/bus-funding-reductions

This includes a PDF showing the timetables of the journeys affected (or for Kent Karrier there is just a summary of the scope of the service in each area) which I have attached.

Derek J

[simon....@offmyplanet.com]

Just to add to KCC's woes, I received the following from Stagecoach yesterday which affects my two local services, the G & 666.

"Summary

From Sunday 17 April 2022, there'll be important changes affecting some bus services in the Ashford area.

Details

What’s changing?

From 17 April, the following services will no longer be operated by Stagecoach:

Route G (Godinton Park, town centre, South Willesborough)
Route 15S (Wye to/from Ashford schools)
Route 124 (Egerton to/from Ashford schools)
Route 925 (Ashford to/from Canterbury schools)

There will also be some adjustments to timetables affecting routes B, 2A, 123, 517 and 666.

Why?

During the course of the pandemic, bus passengers and local communities have benefitted from central and local government funding for bus services. This support, combined with the steps we’ve taken to protect jobs and services, has kept bus networks on life-support.

The pandemic has also accelerated long-term changes to our local economy and communities, including in people's travel patterns. We will always continue to maximise the scope of our services, but they must also reflect those changes in how and when people travel.

It means we’ve been forced to take some very tough decisions about whether we can continue to maintain services which are poorly used and may no longer benefit from the same level of government support that has sustained them over the last two years.

Kent County Council is working with other commercial bus operators to see if they are able to continue to provide these services. We remain fully committed to working with local government partners to maximise the scope and availability of bus connections.

Other changes from 17 April

Route B
There will be a new Monday to Saturday timetable with buses about every 20 minutes during the day.
Passenger numbers are still significantly lower compared to a couple of years ago. In addition we are still challenged by the national shortage of bus drivers which continues to affect the transport and logistics sector across the UK. This change will mean we are able to improve the reliability of this service.
There are no changes to route B buses on Sunday and Bank Holidays.

[View the new route B timetable here]

Route 2A
The additional relief journeys that start and finish in Homewood School grounds will no longer operate. This means that instead of two buses running together, there will only be one.

[View the new route 2A timetable here]

Route 123
The last journey from Ashford (Park Street) to Biddenden will be retimed to depart 15 minutes later at 18:00.

Route 517 (Ashford schools to Park Farm/Singleton)
The 15:15 bus from Hythe Road will no longer operate due to low usage.
There is no change to the 15:45 bus from Hythe Road (Norton Knatchbull School).

Route 666 (Godinton Park to/from town centre)
The Sunday and Bank Holiday service between Godinton Park/Repton Park and the town, will no longer operate. This is because these buses interworked with route G which will no longer be operated by Stagecoach.

Valid Between
Valid from 25/02/2022 to 31/05/2022

"

This happens to be the first email of the many that Stagecoach have sent me over the last year for "Stagecoach Email Alert for Route [G]" which has actually had anything to do with route G, they're normally telling me about road closures in Canterbury, Broadstairs or Ramsgate of which the Ashford G goes nowhere near - So it doesn't really surprise me that Stagecoach don't know where the 666 goes, it does not serve Godinton Park. On Sundays it runs from Eureka Park cinema and the station via Repton Park every hour switching to/from the G at the station. 

Route G cancellation - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/591651/

Route 666 variation - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/591644/

Route 925 cancellation - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/591652/

Route 15S cancellation - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/591653/

Route 124 cancellation - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/591654/

Simon

[Nicholas King]

The hard fact is that significant savings need to be made, and there will have to be some unwelcome decisions.

The elephant in the room is the commercial services now being de-registered by operators, with more lurking in the wings if Govt recovery funding proves to be insufficient.

What’s emerged so far is probably only the tip of the iceberg.

                If any of these is found deserving of support, that can only be at the expense of digging further into the list of supported services which have, so far, escaped the cut-off point.

 

Nicholas King

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdekbusclub...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/001501d824b0%242299abd0%2467cd0370%24%40btinternet.com.

 

--

/adam

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdekbusclub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/CAGfFiMH_8i3sRWgLSb%3DabvVqPvPNrc%2BfoZHdmeL573%2BGLdR1sA%40mail.gmail.com.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdekbusclub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/c5b0f148-e354-4522-9d67-0ed1cadab910n%40googlegroups.com.

Virus-free. www.avg.com

[Chris]

The Environment and Transport Cabinet Committee met on 19th May, and I've finally managed to read the report and listen to the webcast (https://democracy.kent.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=831&MId=8971&Ver=4, then click on the relevant link under item 12, which spring the recording forward to the correct point), as written minutes aren't yet ready. 

The meeting was a little fraught, to say the least, with many references to the equalities impact assessment (including the young and perhaps even non-drivers if I didn't imagine it, rather than focussing purely on the elderly) as well as number of 'classic political' points being made. The original timetable as suggested when the consultation was started in February seems to have slipped a bit, as that suggested contract terminations would be issued at the end of May, whereas this meeting has stated that individual service proposals will not be ready until the July meeting - currently on the calendar for 6th July. 

It was made quite clear that alternatives will be/are being considered, so a service being on this list doesn't immediately mean it will be withdrawn without replacement, just that it may not continue in its present form. Some operators may also put forward proposals that will be a lower cost option. I thought one point raised by one of the attending councillors along the lines that we should be considering the transport and environment budgets together when it comes to matters such as this to be worthy of further consideration (especially given as they are handled in the same committee), to try and reduce chances of one department promoting one thing that another goes against by being unable to support public transport alternatives. 

Chris