JFO went for a drive

[JFO]

Hi Everyone hope your well, and although I'm still not able to upload attachments, with others starting to talk about the places they've been on Saturday 3rd of April 2021 I went for a longer drive and like a few others, I checked out the Southeastern Trains Rail Replacement between Tunbridge Wells and Battle.
As others have said there was a lot of variety at Battle, with GO Ahead London General Buses Envrio EN25 LK57EJN from Bexleyheath, Wright Bus VWL47 YX54FWN and MCV Bus MDL1 YJ60GGE from Folkestone, and Scania Bus 51 YN58BCE from Newhaven, Hams Travel's Gemini's DW65HAM and MC65HAM and MMC MC17HAM: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51092790476/, and Ramblers Buses Newly aquired Tempo Buses YJ07VSX and 965 YJ10EXS, all seen parked at Battle Rail Station, while Stagecoach Dart 34732 SV55BZG: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51093332548/, and Enviro 27582 GX58GKP: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51093332573/, were passing by on Routes 304/305.
Finally while in Sussex my determination to do some more scenic shots took me back to scenic Robertsbridge where Hams Travel's Brand New MMC Single Decker DW21HAM: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51092892732/, and Volvo Coach DW66HAM, Ramblers Buses Newly aquired Tempo Bus  966 YJ10EXT: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51093342578/, and  GO Ahead London General Buses Wright Bus VWL48 YX454FWO from Newhaven: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51093610095/, were all seen turning in and out of Station Road and the High Street, while Stagecoach Dart 34732 SV55BZG: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51093602560/, and Enviro 27573 GX58GKD: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51092790461/, were seen passing through on Routes 304/305.

[JFO]

I went for another drive on Saturday 17th of April 2021, and visited the Romney Marsh and Rye and Winchelsea area's in Sussex where I also checked out the Southern Trains Rail Replacement between Ashford and Hastings with several operators helping, inlcuding GO Ahead who supplied 901 YN56FFA out of Newhaven: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51121680589/, E240 YX60DPN and E282 YX14RTZ out of Bexleyheath and WVL83 LF52ZNR and VWL47 YX54FWN out of Folkestone, Crosskeys Coaches who supplied MX62GXZ, Travelmasters Bus and Coach who supplied Gemini MX07BVE, Brookline Coaches of Ryarsh  who supplied Bova Coach BC69BLC: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51121367302/, and Rambler Buses who supplied recently aquired Tempo's YJ07VSX and 965 YJ10EXS.
While in Sussex my intention to do more scenic shots took me back to Winchelsea where I captured 

Ramblers 965 YJ10EXS passing the New Inn Pub: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51121845438/, and Ramblers YJ07VSX: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51121939601/, and GO Ahead 901 YN56FFA: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51121683404/, climbing past the Pipewells Gate Arch, while GO Ahead 901 YN56FFA: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51121683474/, and Stagecoach 10724 SN66VWP: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51121845478/, were seen passing the last remaining wall of St. Johns Hospital Almshouse which overlooks Pewis Marsh to the West of Winchelsea.
Finally while driving to Sussex I also captured Stagecoach Dart 34548 GX04EZA passing the Church at St. Mary in the Marsh on Route 11A: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51121842533/, while 15773 GN61EVW was found parked up along with 2 others at Old Romney: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51122727760/.

[JFO]

I went for yet another drive on Saturday 24th of April 2021, and returned to Rye and Winchelsea in Sussex where I again checked out the Southern Trains Rail Replacement between Ashford and Hastings with several operators helping, inlcuding GO Ahead who supplied EN15 SN58CFF, EN25 LK57EJN, EN35 SN11BOF and E282 YX14RTZ out of Bexleyheath and WVL83 LF52ZNR and VWL47 YX54FWN out of Folkestone, Crosskeys Coaches who again supplied MX62GXZ, Travelmasters Bus and Coach who supplied YX67UYG: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51137236040/, and Rambler Buses who supplied recently aquired Tempo's YJ07VSX: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51136903709/, and 965 YJ10EXS and 966 YJ10EXT.
While in Sussex I also did some more scenic shots in Winchelsea where I framed Ramblers 966 YJ10EXT through the Pipewells Gate Arch, while their YJ07VSX was seen looking a little "Lost" as it passed the wall of St. Johns Hospital Almshouse, where Stagecoach new paint E200 36504 GN12CMK was unusually on Route 100 and seen turning off the A259 to enter the vilage: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51135451787/, while 10725 SN66VWR was captured turning into Winchelsea past the "Cinque Ports" Village Sign and Post Office: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51136124966/, and is a shot I did for the scenery not the vehicle...

[JFO]

I returned yet again to Rye and Winchelsea in Sussex on Saturday 1st of May 2021, where I checked out the Southern Trains Rail Replacement between Ashford and Hastings with several operators helping, including GO Ahead who supplied WVL83 LF52ZNR and VWL47 YX54FWN out of Folkestone, Crosskeys Coaches who again supplied MX62GXZ and X72UAO, Travelmasters Bus and Coach who supplied YX67UYK, BK10MFU and BK10MFV: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51152454850/, and Hams Travel who supplied MC17HAM, DW18HAM and DW70HAM.
While in Sussex naturally I also did some more scenic shots in Winchelsea where I captured Stagecoach 10722 SN66VWM: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51151592738/, and E300 27572 GX58GKC the later unusually on Route 100: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51152145194/, both passing the wall of St. Johns Hospital Almshouse along with Hams DW70HAM: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51152462990/, which was also seen turning into Winchelsea past the New Inn Pub and Post Office: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51150678247/, while their MC17HAM was captured passing a blooming tree on its way in to the village: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51150686297/.

[michael...@gmail.com]

The use of a single deck on the 100/101 is not unusual.  

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[JFO]

Fair enough, however I assumed it was unusual because I had never noticed an E300 single decker on the 100 before.

[JFO]

I went for a different drive on Saturday 8th of May 2021, and I found myself in the nice countryside west of Maidstone, where I took advantage of the good weather (for me at least) to do yet more scenic shots, and in adition to making my first visit to the little village of Plaxtol where I captured Autocar Buses Solo YJ10OAC passing the Parsh Church on KKC Contracted Route 222 back to Tonbridge: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51167051009/, I returned to the more familiar locations of Mereworth and Wateringbury.
While in Mereworth, I saw some Nu Venture Buses E200's on the Saturdays only extention of Route 151 from Medway: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51166500763/, being passed by Arriva Buses on Route 7, with 793 YX10BDZ being passed by 6238 YJ57BKE: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51167047304/, and 785 YX10BCY being passed by 4107 SN17MXF: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51166265966/, both near the B2016 Junction where ALX400 DAF 6007 KL52CWU was seen turning into the village: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51166265996/, while 6436 GN04UFD was seen passing Mereworth's old Triumph Filling Station and Church Spire: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51167047294/.
I also drove through Wateringbury on the way back and Arriva Buses ALX400 DAF 6007 KL52CWU was seen again: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51167047354/, this time at the boundary of Wateringbury which is also home to Starline Coaches, and then while in Wateringbury I was surprised to see a Travel West Midlands Buses Scania single decker YN56FEP.

[JFO]

A fellow group member and I went for a longer drive on Saturday 15th of May 2021, and amongst other things we checked out the Southeastern and Southern Trains Rail Replacements from Ashford to Rye, Ore and Bexhill, and Hastings to Robertsbridge.
As usual with a big rail blockade there was a lot of variety with many GO Ahead London General Buses Envrios and B7TL PVL398 LX54GZK: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51182025284/, from Bexleyheath, Wright Bus VWL47 YX54FWN and Gemini WVL83 LF52ZNR from Folkestone, and Scania Buses 901 YN56FFA, 902 YN56FFB and 53 YN58BCK from Newhaven: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51181447783/, Travelmasters Levante Coach FJ61EYL and Gemini's BK10MFU and BK10MFV: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51180546657/, Hams Travel's Gemini's DW65HAM and MC65HAM and MMC's MC17HAM, DW18HAM and DW70HAM and Ramblers Tempo's 966 YJ10EXT and 965 YJ10EXS, all seen in Ashford, Rye, Ore and Hastings, while Brighton and Hove Coaches Elite Coach 530 BV18YBH was seen on my first ever vist to Bexhill: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51182318905/, and Ramblers Panther Volvo 03 BDY389 headed up a long line of coaches parked on the New road near their Depot at West Ridge: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51180546597/.
Finally while in Sussex my determination to do yet more scenic shots took me back to scenic Robertsbridge where GO Ahead London Wright Streetdeck? WHV62 BF65WJA: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51182327350/, and several Enviro's: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51182327295/, were all seen looking rather out of place as they turned in and out of Station Road Hill: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51182327240/, and the High Street: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51182322755/, while Stagecoach "Hastings Arrows" E200 36489 GN12CKP: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51180550187/, and Enviro 27572 GX58GKC: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51182025369/, were amongst those seen passing through on Routes 304/305.

[michael...@gmail.com]

It is a great shame that we have to rely upon members from Dover Area to update us regarding the 304/305 running through to Tunbridge Wells. The Bus Times web-site still shows that the 304/305 runs between Hastings and Hawkhurst, where the vehicles changes into a 254 to Tunbridge Wells. In the past Vehicles leaving Hastings on the 304/305 used to show Hawkhurst for Tunbridge Wells and the 254 leaving Tunbridge Wells showed Hawkhurst for Hastings. When did it change?

 

You indicate that 36489 was unusual on the 305, but looking back over the past few weeks there appears to have been an arrow liveried E200 most days

 

Michael

 

From: 'JFO' via Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: 17 May 2021 19:26
To: Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>

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[Group_owner]

Michael, what were you referring to when you query talk of 304/305 "running through to Tunbridge Wells" ?

James's pictures were in Robertsbridge so they were on the section of route that is numbered 304/305 anyway.

There are one or two journeys that cross Hawkhurst with the "wrong" number and don't change, because they don't follow the whole route (e.g. 254s to and from Hurst Green).

So what point are you trying to make?

Derek J

[michael...@gmail.com]

Derek

 

If you refer to the caption for 36489 on the flickr attachment to James’s post he clearly states “This vehicle is unusually on Route 305 from Hastings to Hawkhurst and Tunbridge Wells”. This to me implies that the 305 is now running throughout as a 305 to Tunbridge Wells and not changing numbers at Hawkhurst. Thus the withdrawal of the 254 service number does not seem to have picked up by enthusiasts at or either end, be it Hastings or Tunbridge Wells. It is still showing as a 254 on Bus Times and as far as I can see no change of route number has been published in notices and proceedings.

 

Simple question when the number was changed to 305 to Tunbridge Wells throughout without a change of route number at Hawkhurst.  James appears to have picked this up first last Saturday

 

Michael

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[DRH]

As a Tunbridge Wells member, I can only say that what Derek says is correct as far as I can tell: the route is still numbered 254 Tunbridge Wells<>Hawkhurst (for Hastings) and 304/5 Hastings<>Hawkhurst (for Tunbridge Wells); the artificial split being for licensing reasons. Passengers can book through and stay on the bus at Hawkhurst. Bus Times and the Stagecoach website seem to concur on the numbers.  Use of an Arrow-branded Enviro has indeed been quite common in recent weeks. 

I can't provide a recent photo but here's one taken 17 April 2021 of the 251, where the same situation prevails : 251/2 Tunbridge Wells<>Heathfield (for Eastbourne); 51 Eastbourne<>Heathfield (for Tunbridge Wells).

DRH

[NRS]

Vehicles arriving in Tunbridge Wells during the main part of the day (when I visit) still show 254 including Hawkhurst for Hastings when leaving.  I haven't seen a 304/305 in Tunbridge Wells.

Norman

[Chris]

Michael,

I think it is the caption that is erroneous, or at least being misread, rather than the state of affairs. Bustimes now states the source for their data at the bottom of each page, and that for the 254 is currently listed as the Stagecoach Open Data feed dated today (23/5). I think we can therefore be pretty certain no such change has (ever) occurred, and the services continue under two numbers as before.

Chris

[Group_owner]

Hmm.  I'm not sure that James's wording actually implies that its running through to Tunbridge Wells is unusual (which is what you seem to have inferred), but merely that the use of an Arrow vehicle on the route itself might have been unusual.  You're quite correct to comment on the latter point, as others have done, but the mention of Tunbridge Wells is incidental, and operationally accurate, whatever number it happens to show on the front at any stage.

Hope that clears this up, and thanks to others for their comments since.

Derek J

[Nicholas King]

I agree with others (thank you) that nothing has changed over the numbering or operational pattern of 254 and 304/305.

                The registrations are split at Hawkhurst, as Derek says, to keep within rules about domestic mileage limits.  I dare say the different numbers reflect the history of each segment, having been re-spliced from the old M&D 5, 12 and 84 many years ago, several times now.  Possibly they also reflect each section being within different county council areas, so far as any financial support is involved.

                It is good to see these regular reports from the Rother area by JFO, for we don’t get many from those who are on the spot, and I hope he won’t feel discouraged from continuing his valuable input.

 

Nicholas King

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[JFO]

Thank You Nicholas, I had a very awfull drive (and Accident) on Saturday 22nd, so your words of encouragement are welcomed, and as for that "Hastings Arrows" Bus, I was Not implying anything to do with the Route Numbers, but simply stating that I belived the use of one on those routes was somewhat unusual, as told to me in the past by some of my Flickr Followers who are from Hastings and Battle and know the Area and its Routes much better than I do.

[michael...@gmail.com]

James



Further to your note to Nicholas as you are probably aware he is the Editor
of the M&D and East Kent Bus monthly news Sheet called the Invicta. I am
responsible for the photo circuit of a fellow society which covers both
Stagecoach South and South East, so we have to keep track what is going on.
I am based in St Leonards.



Early last year at the start of the pandemic Stagecoach announced that it
was introducing three distinct liveries and that local branding would be
phased out. Repaints started and reduced services came in followed by the
withdrawal of wi-fi. When repaints started it was noticeable that route
specific vehicles were being repainted and thus were reduced considerably.
There are now very few routes now left with sufficient dedicated route
branded vehicles.,



Garages are now tending to put the route branded vehicles on other routes
more often than they would have in the past. Whether this due to the
repaints or operational purposes I do not know.



To glean what is going on, as regards vehicles it is best to look at Bus
Times each day. Most Photographers are now using it as it saves them
considerable time in locating specific vehicles. Other essential items are
the monthly Invicta news sheet, Fleet Handbook and Route Working Publication
which Nicholas prepares.

Michael





From: 'JFO' via Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup
<mdekb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 23 May 2021 20:41
To: Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>

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3fa1577n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> .

[michael...@gmail.com]

James



Further to your note to Nicholas as you are probably aware he is the Editor
of the M&D and East Kent Bus monthly news Sheet called the Invicta. I am
responsible for the photo circuit of a fellow society which covers both
Stagecoach South and South East, so we have to keep track what is going on.
I am based in St Leonards.



Early last year at the start of the pandemic Stagecoach announced that it
was introducing three distinct liveries and that local branding would be
phased out. Repaints started and reduced services came in followed by the
withdrawal of wi-fi. When repaints started it was noticeable that route
specific vehicles were being repainted and thus were reduced considerably.
There are now very few routes now left with sufficient dedicated route
branded vehicles.,



Garages are now tending to put the route branded vehicles on other routes
more often than they would have in the past. Whether this due to the
repaints or operational purposes I do not know.



To glean what is going on, as regards vehicles it is best to look at Bus
Times each day. Most Photographers are now using it as it saves them
considerable time in locating specific vehicles. Other essential items are
the monthly Invicta news sheet, Fleet Handbook and Route Working Publication
which Nicholas prepares.

Michael





From: 'JFO' via Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup
<mdekb...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: 23 May 2021 20:41

To: Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>

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[Chris]

It just so happens that I did take a picture of the 254 in Tunbridge Wells on 26th April. Although we have confirmed the route numbers remain as previous, this seems as good a place as any to post the picture! 35102 does the deed here.

I wonder, though... has anyone ever photographed Autocar's commuter-link journeys along a section of route, numbered 354? I seem to recall (so may be completely wrong) that at one point it was one of the most heavily subsidized routes in East Sussex in terms of subsidy/passenger. 

Chris