Historical information
Derek Jones
Michael
I am conscious that in the past I have resisted having a lot of
non-contemporary content as this is mainly intended as a news group. As
long as we keep the right balance I'm happy to keep any historical information
on this group if there is interest in it (which I certainly share!), rather
than create a separate one.
I am very grateful to Bob Cook and John Bennett for filling in some of the gaps in the information I was able to find in my own records.
Mr Goad is another of these largely unsung pre-war operators, and as such was a bit more substantial than Bulmer, if rather shorter-lived. He was based at Station Road Garage, close to the KESR station, and ran a stage service between Tenterden (West Cross) and New Romney via Appledore (extended at times to Dymchurch, mainly in the summer months) between 1936 and at least 1939. As such it is a good example of where independents tended to take advantage of cross-boundary opportunities the major companies shied away from, as these would have breached the area agreements of the time (in this case between M&D and East Kent, effectively at Appledore).
Its timetable varied over the years, but Notices &
Proceedings issue 375 dated 11th February 1939 contained a full timetable
showing an enhanced daily service in the summer months, and in the winter there
were Sunday-only journeys to Dymchurch plus a Saturday service as far as
Appledore (I have copied an extract as a PDF to
the Files section of the group website).
This
suggests he had contract commitments (and/or other business activities) during
the week. Whether the service lasted into the war years I do not know, but
it does not seem to have reappeared after the war, and in December 1945 M&D
had introduced their new service 73 between Tenterden and Appledore, initially
under a road service permit until full licensing was reintroduced in 1946/7
(Notices & Proceedings itself did not reappear until August 1946).
I have seen a copy of the photo you mention, which may well have been taken
outside the operator’s garage in Station Road, Tenterden. RP is a Northamptonshire registration dating
from anytime from 1924 to 1932. If it is RP 7730 that makes it a Reo Speed Wagon
new in 5/29 to W Gibson, Walgrave (a village between Northampton and Kettering).
Northants Motor Tax shows it to Godfrey, London SE27, then Parker, Uxbridge,
and (depending on the dates involved) could have passed from Parker to Goad.
It is also recorded as a mobile canteen with Peterborough Corporation during
the war, which if correct could have been its ultimate fate after leaving Goad. John Bennett also tells me “The body has been
quite extensively rebuilt at some stage with the lower panels extended and
swept out to modernise the appearance and a new destination screen has been
added. Quite a neat job too.”
You can see some more photos of vehicles of this era (some of them local to Kent) with information from John on Dick Gilbert’s website on the following links:
http://www.skylineaviation.co.uk/buses/vintage1.html
http://www.skylineaviation.co.uk/buses/vintage2.html
KP is possible as that series was issued in 1928/9, but the
only Reo known in that series was KP 1524 of Langton, Gillingham which passed
via Medway Bus Owners Association to Maidstone & District in 1931 and
thence to Lane (dlr), London W8 with no further operator traced. Therefore I would say RP is more likely.
Bob Cook has identified three other vehicles with Goad, two former Green Line
coaches and an ex-Lincolnshire GMC:
GF 565, AEC Regal/Hall Lewis C27R (new 1930) acquired by 5/39 ex-London
Transport (T107) and passing to F. Williams, Treorchy by 5/43;
YE 4379, ADC 419D/Short C28D ex Harris, Cambridge after 5/37 (new to London
General 1927, via LT (AW20));
and VL 2859, GMC T30/ -?- B20F (new 1930) acquired in or after 1937 and ex
Lincolnshire (378) (who had acquired it in 1935 from Blankley, Colsterworth and
sold it in 1937).
Thanks Michael for asking this question - please keep them coming, as it helps to highlight some of the less well known Kent (and East Sussex) operators of the past.
Derek J
On Dec 15, 8:44 pm, "Michael Wadman" <michael.wadm...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Well, as my request for information on Mr Bulmer was so successful, I'll
> try again. This one is a bit trickier as I've got the operator details
> from the legal lettering but I can't identify the vehicle.
>
> The operator is F C Goad of Station Road, Tenterden. The vehicle is a
> small bonneted bus, probably a 20-seater, might be a REO. The
> registration letters appear to be RP or KP, but I can't see the numbers
> because the spring hanger is in the way. RP 7730 has been suggested but
> I can't confirm that.
>
> Does anyone have any information on the bus or the operator?
>
> MW
>
Take your friends with you with Mobile Messenger. Click Here!
clive
up to the group and post a comment about another nearby operator -
Jessops Coaches, of the Kingsdown Arms Frinsted. Mr Jessop bought the
pub in 1924 and by the late 1920's was operating a school contract to
Doddington School. Then when Road Service Licensing commenced in 1930
he applied for a Friday only express service into Sittingbourne, which
he was duly granted. This suggests that the Sittingbourne operation
had started before 1930 though I have not as yet been able to confirm
this.
After World War two the school operations expanded such that he needed
two vehicles in the morning and one in the afternoon. At this point he
had three Bedford OB's though one was used for spares. At some point
the operation reduced so that only one vehicle was required. I was
fortunate to visit the pub in the early 1960's as my father was Percy
Jessops accountant. They were a little wary of visitors and the inside
of the pub dated back pre war with an early pin ball machine and
musical player. Very few enthusiasts appeared to be aware of Jessops
existence though one visit by the Omnibus Society is recorded. I made
an off the chance visit in 1973 after Percy had died and was fortunate
to photograph the last OB just before operations finally ceased.
About twelve years ago my wifes sister and partner purchased the
Kingsdown Arms and the opportunity was taken to display copies of the
photographs I had been able to obtain. Some postcard copies were also
sold from the bar. Following the sale of the pub (and subsequent
closure) the pictures were put on display in the nearby village hall.
Around that time I began researching the history of Jessops but found
that there were a number of questions that could not be answered.
Recently however I have been able to move forward on this and some
members may have noticed a couple of articles in the East Kent Gazette
where the editor used extracts from a draft of my research (without my
permission - but never mind).
Anyhow I am also a member of the Omnibus Society and their PHRG
(Provincial History Research Group). They produce occasional small
booklets that may have limited demand or which help to publicise
ongoing research and have offered to put Jessops into this programme -
hopefully in the Spring.
The story is not however just about Jessops. I have tried to put his
operation into the wider context of what was happening with bus
services in, around and particularly to the south of Sittingbourne.
Research has led us to a "Rover" charabanc operated by a publican in
Milstead and a picture of another Charabanc recorded as being operated
by Elveys (of Milstead and later Doddington). Both of these are
virtually "unknown".
If therefore anyone can offer any more information or relaeent
photographs I would be pleased to hear from them.
Clive Cheeseman
> Are you a PC? Upload your PC story and show the worldhttp://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/122465942/direct/01/
Michael Wadman
Derek,
Thanks for the information about Mr Goad. I do have other historical queries,
but I’ll feed them through gradually so as not to swamp the group.
The suggestion that the bus in the photo is RP 7730 came from a photograph list
supplied by David Packer to OS members. Presumably he got it from the original
photographer.
It’s good to know that information on these smaller operators is still
available, and I hope that some procedures are in place to ensure that it is
not lost should some unfortunate event befall its current custodians.
Presumably it is thought, probably correctly, that there is insufficient interest
in the small operators who either gave up or went plughole without being
acquired by the major operators to justify a companion volume on them similar
to those on the major operators in the Club’s territory. Being a contrary
sort of person myself, I’ve always found the small operators to be more
interesting!
Regards and thanks once again,
MW
-----Original Message-----
From: mdekb...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:mdekb...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Derek Jones
Sent: 21 December 2008 13:12
To: mdekb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Invicta] Historical
information
Michael
I am conscious that in the past I have resisted having a lot of
non-contemporary content as this is mainly intended as a news group. As
long as we keep the right balance I'm happy to keep any historical information
on this group if there is interest in it (which I certainly share!), rather
than create a separate one.
I am very grateful to Bob Cook and John Bennett for filling in some of the gaps in the information I was able to find in my own records.
Mr Goad is another of these largely unsung pre-war operators, and as such was a bit more substantial than Bulmer, if rather shorter-lived. He was based at Station Road Garage, close to the KESR station, and ran a stage service between Tenterden (West Cross) and New Romney via Appledore (extended at times to Dymchurch, mainly in the summer months) between 1936 and at least 1939. As such it is a good example of where independents tended to take advantage of cross-boundary opportunities the major companies shied away from, as these would have breached the area agreements of the time (in this case between M&D and East Kent, effectively at Appledore).
Its timetable varied over the years, but Notices & Proceedings issue 375 dated 11th February 1939 contained a full timetable showing an enhanced daily service in the summer months, and in the winter there were Sunday-only journeys to Dymchurch plus a Saturday service as far as Appledore (I have copied an extract as a PDF to the Files section of the group website).
This suggests he had contract commitments
(and/or other business activities) during the week. Whether the service
lasted into the war years I do not know, but it does not seem to have
reappeared after the war, and in December 1945 M&D had introduced their new
service 73 between Tenterden and Appledore, initially under a road service
permit until full licensing was reintroduced in 1946/7 (Notices &
Proceedings itself did not reappear until August 1946).
I have seen a copy of the photo you mention, which may well have been taken outside the operators garage in Station Road, Tenterden. RP is a Northamptonshire registration dating from anytime from 1924 to 1932. If it is RP 7730 that makes it a Reo Speed Wagon new in 5/29 to W Gibson, Walgrave (a village between Northampton and Kettering). Northants Motor Tax shows it to Godfrey, London SE27, then Parker, Uxbridge, and (depending on the dates involved) could have passed from Parker to Goad. It is also recorded as a mobile canteen with Peterborough Corporation during the war, which if correct could have been its ultimate fate after leaving Goad. John Bennett also tells me The body has been quite extensively rebuilt at some stage with the lower panels extended and swept out to modernise the appearance and a new destination screen has been added. Quite a neat job too.
You can see some more photos of vehicles of this era (some of them local to Kent) with information from John on Dick Gilberts website on the following links: