Sandwich Open Golf

[JFO]

Hi Everyone, with the Open Golf coming back to Sandwich in a few weeks, will there be any shuttle services associated with it?, when the Open Golf came in 2011, I seem to recall seeing ALX400 Tridents from Stagecoach in Devon and other fleets running around.

[Group_owner]

There is no parking for the general public at the venue (and prohibited on the approach roads to Royal St George's) but there will be two Park & Ride sites (with space for a total of 12,000 cars), details of which are now on the KM and event websites -

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/sandwich/news/everything-you-need-to-now-about-the-open-249998/ 

https://www.theopen.com/getting-there

A warning that the Park & Ride car parks will be charging £15 a day for the first three days, and £20 from Wednesday 14th onwards, so a short stop for photography is not really an option unfortunately.   Given that the immediate approach road from the event is private property and the public roads in the vicinity will probably be busy with other vehicles and a large number of visitors on foot, there may be better scope for pedestrian-free pictures at locations between the Park & Ride sites and on the approaches to Sandwich itself.

The KM website states that "The northern site will be on farmland to the west of Cliffsend village, situated directly adjacent to the A299 Hengist Way. The southern one is on the A256 south west of Deal."  The Park & Rides open at 0900 on Sunday 11th and earlier in the morning on all subsequent days, as shown on theopen.com website above.

In an earlier bulletin on 4th June, KM reported that, on their way into Sandwich, 

"Park and ride buses from the north site go via Monks Way, the Toll Bridge, High Street and St George’s Road.

From the south site they go via the Deal/Dover Road and St George’s Road."

The tournament runs from next Sunday 11th to Sunday 18th July, and a significant number of vehicles from elsewhere in the Stagecoach group are expected, though I have no further details so reports will be extremely welcome.

Can anyone offer any experience from having tried photography of the bus services at this event before (as James mentioned, the last time was in 2011)?

Suggestions from those with more local knowledge of suitable locations would be warmly welcomed.

Derek J

[Nicholas King]

What happened in 2011 was covered extensively in Invicta 708, including a front cover picture.  Most photographers seemed to position themselves at the corner of St. George’s Road, near the station; the only Park & Ride site was at Barville Farm, Tilmanstone.  Whether that is the same as this year’s southern site at “Eastry” “on the A256 south-west of Deal” doesn’t seem clear.

                In 2011, the vehicle requirement on the first few days (qualifying rounds) was almost entirely covered locally; the visiting vehicles only arrived in quantity for the tournament proper from the middle of the week.  Of course, that pattern may be different this year.

                The overnight parking site for visiting vehicles is not yet known, and it is probably not in our interests to try visiting it even when we find out where it is.  In 2011 the vacant former depot site at Russell Street in Dover was used, but that is long since developed.

                I would echo Derek’s plea for reports of what happens.  I should be able to accept late information for Invicta up to Monday 19th, though a general flow as the event unfolds would be preferred, especially if it turns out that any facts need to be checked.

 

Nicholas King

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[JFO]

"In 2011 the vacant former depot site at Russell Street in Dover was used, but that is long since developed", well I don't know Nicholas, that St. James car park is pretty empty at night...

But anyway thank you for some info guys, I've had quite a few freinds outside of the Group asking me about this, and In adition to all the visiting Stagecoach vehicles, I have also been told that a Non PCV Leyland G181JHG will also be at the event too, and I will try to get to Sandwich at least twice.

[Neil Gow]

Crikey - last time I covered Golflink shuttles was 36 years ago in 1985, and the time before was 1981 so if I go this year it'll be a 40th anniversary! In 1981 the service was operated mainly if not exclusively by AEC Regents and Reliance coaches. Four years later there was more variety: still the odd Regent but also two different types of Fleetlines, a recently acquired ex London Country Leyland National and a Metroliner coach. There may have been some other types too, despite a 0529 start I only had one hour in Sandwich due to two missed connections (at Westerham and Ashford) on the journey from High Wycombe all by bus.

Here are some 1985 pics (sorry for the quality of the Metroliner but included for the sake of interest). Some of the younger members on the group might never have seen these types. However there is still an AEC Regent in the fleet, so maybe... who knows?

Neil G.

[JFO]

I braved the rain and visited Sandwich on Monday 12th, and asside from not noticing any other photographers, my observations are as follows.

Firstly the Southern "P&R" site is next to Eastry Road Roundabout on the A256 Road, and is not far from Eythorne's Pike Road Industrial Estate where the vehicle's are being parked up overnight in a yard next to the Kings Ferry Coaches Dover Outstation: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51306802527/, and that shot was taken from my car after I saw that line up driving down there.

As for the vehicles in use, the following local vehicles were noted, "Wave" Buses SN66VWD 10715 and SN66VWE 10716 from Folkestone, SN63NCF 10066 from Dover, and KX08KZE 15437 from Ashford, which drove passed me in Dover heading back toward Ashford with a Blue "Open Golf" sticker in its window, but was being driven by an "Orange Boiler Suite" mechanic so may have developed a problem.
I also noted the following visitors from Stagecoach Fife Scotland YX19OUD 11179: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51308264859/, YX19OUE 11180, YX19OUF 11181, and 11560 SK21FJF-11565 SK21FJV inclusive: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51308554090/, and while driving home a convoy of Stagecoach "Exeter Park & Ride" MMC Buses including 10403 SN66WNJ were seen driving into Pike Road, Eythorne.

With regards to the Routings, vehicles from Eastry do indeed run via the A256, Sandwich Station, and St. Georges Road, while vehicles from Cliffesend run past Discovery Park and then pass through the Toll Gate Arch, where Stewards helpfully shout "BUS!" as the vehicles aproach: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51308266654/, before continuing down the High Street: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51306804267/, to Sandwich Station and St. Georges Road, while from my observations vehicles returning to Cliffsend seemed to run via the A256 Bypass and not past the Guildhall.

As for other Stagecoach services, Route 43 journeys from Discovery Park: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51307546466/, and Route 45 journeys from Ramsgate are running in and out of Sandwich via the A256 Bypass and Dover Road and not serving Discovery Park, and Repainted Dart 34434 KV53EZL was seen turning out of the High Street into Dover Road: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51308554150/, while 34482 SV53DDJ was seen arriving at the Guildhall: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51306804247/, and also noted was that Sandwich Schools were not open, so although Stagecoach School journeys were runing but empty, with "Breeze" Bus YN16WVL 15271 spotted on the 16:00PM 45A to Westwood, there was none of the School Services provided by Thomsetts Coaches, Regents Coaches, or Bayliss Excutive Travel, though Bayliss were ingaged on Shuttle duties for the "R&A" with allmost all of their coach fleet seen in use, along with 2 Sprinter vans from DJ. Coaches of Gravesend.

So hope this helps, and I will try and get back to Sandwich on Saturday 17th if not before.

[noisynoel]

Are you sure about Scotlands 11560-11565 inclusive? I have saw 11561/2/4 and there is photographic evidence of 11565, however, 11563 is still tracking in Dunfurmline on bustimes?

Noel

[Neil Bays]

I visually saw 11560/1/2/4/5 today (14th july)

Neil B

[JFO]

With good weather for it I visited Sandwich again on Wednesday 14th, and though I couldn't drive this time (due to having my first Covid jab in the morning), from the Route 81 Bus I was therefore able to snap the Southern "P&R" site at Eastry Road Roundabout on the A256 Road, with Scania MMC's 15324 YN67YKM and 15327 YN67YKR from Stagecoach in Devon seen loading up: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51311906776/.
With regards to the vehicles used, the local vehicles that were noted on Monday appear to have gone back to their respective depots and routes, while the visitors from Stagecoach Fife Scotland: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51312108908/, have been joined by visitors from Stagecoach in Devon, with 10689 SN66VUZ seen crossing Sandwich Toll Bridge: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51312632154/, while 3 "Exeter Park & Ride" MMC's 10453 SN65NZJ, 10454 SN65NZK and 10455 SN65NZM were noted with 10455 SN65NZM seen in the High Street: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51311908276/.
As for other Stagecoach services, Route 45 journeys to and from Ramsgate are still running in and out of Sandwich via the A256 Bypass and Dover Road and not serving Discovery Park, and Repainted Dart 34653 GX54DXD was seen turning out of the High Street into Dover Road: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51312107408/, while also repainted 34411 GX53MWA was seen turning into the High Street next to the Bell Hotel: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51311906786/.
Finally Stagecoach is also not the only operator bringing MMC's to Sandwich with the most unexpected sighting for me being Westways Coach Service's of London? MMC 600CXS new as YX17NUJ: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51312633729/.
I will also make a final visit to Sandwich on Saturday 17th.

[noisynoel]

Todays (Fri 16/07) run out included 

15918/9 from Ashford (On loan from HB), 
15562
15324
10066
15318/24
10714

 And this evening they were joined by 

10718
15261
15541
10064

10949/63 have also arrived at Tilmanstone

Noel

[Nicholas King]

I’m not sure that 10403 is right (highlighted below).

                It has not been reported by anyone else, and is a Manchester vehicle, from where there is otherwise no evidence of any loans.

                I suspect JFO means 10453, which is indeed an Exeter vehicle, and has been seen on the Golf work by several people.  The registration quoted also fits for that.

 

Nicholas King

 

From: 'JFO' via Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: 13 July 2021 01:06
To: Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>

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[Michael Cockett]

Has 11563 been spotted yet?

Bus Times still indicates in Scotland 

Michael

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[Neil Gow]

These are the vehicles I logged on Saturday. It is just a snapshot of one hour there at lunchtime and 90 minutes between 4.30 and 6pm. I know I didn't see them all, for instance I saw the disappearing backs of a Stagecoach Gold liveried decker and a Wright Gemini (not Stagecoach) which didn't come back while I was there despite the two Tridents and some others making two rounds trips in this time.

There were a lot of private hire coach/midicoach movements going on too, but I think the Bayliss vehicles were also on carpark shuttles (they had Red Coaches notices).

East Kent: 15265, 15562, 15818, 15919

South: 10889, 10892, 10945, 10959, 10963, 15985, 15992, 15993, 18510, 18523, 19881, 19882

South West: 10453, 10455, 10459, 10501, 10503, 15311, 15318, 15324

Fife: 11176, 11179, 11181, 11560, 11564

Manchester: 11524, 11543, and a third possibly 11523 (noted as 11593 which doesn't exist yet).

Bayliss: MJ69 BAY, TW69 BAY, AB69 BAY, V44 BAY

The use of two Tridents from Stagecoach South is notable. 18510 is one of Basingstoke depot's newest double deckers (along with 18511), but Portsmouth have little excuse. I was told that 15918/9 were moved to Ashford for the event specifically to prevent that from happening here.

Neil G.

[Michael Cockett]

Watching Lewis Hamilton win the race at Silverstone this afternoon(Sunday). I noticed a stagecoach single deck in the background within the confines. Good planning two major events on the same weekend!

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[Nicholas King]

Other sources say that the third Manchester vehicle is (or was) 11508.  There don’t seem to be any others from there.

 

Nicholas King

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[Geoff Lloyd]

Just a bit of background information - Bayliss Executive Travel were the chosen supplier of coaches for a timetabled programme of the Royal & Ancient transfers from a number of hotels in Canterbury, Dover & Deal, and from accommodation at the University of Kent. They weren't running to/from the Park & Ride sites, although they were often caught up in the queue of deckers! Virtually their entire fleet was used, (Shearings liveried coaches excepted) on an operation which spanned almost 24 hours per day.

"Running the gauntlet" of St George's Road & Sandown Road in the longer coaches, especially before and after implementation of traffic control, was an interesting challenge, believe me!

Geoff.

[Neil Gow]

I'm not so sure about the third Manchester vehicle now - it was probably 11543 coming back. Best to disregard this unless someone else saw another one.

[Chris]

Might the non-Stagecoach Wright Gemini have been in Lothian livery? I saw a picture of an ex-Lothian Wright Gemini now in the fleet of G.H. Watts (Leicestershire) in an unstated location allegedly heading for the tournament (one of three) on "social media", but no idea as to what it was used on/for and nothing other than that. 

Chris

On Sunday, 18 July 2021 at 16:54:12 UTC+1 Neil Gow wrote:

These are the vehicles I logged on Saturday. It is just a snapshot of one hour there at lunchtime and 90 minutes between 4.30 and 6pm. I know I didn't see them all, for instance I saw the disappearing backs of a Stagecoach Gold liveried decker and a Wright Gemini (not Stagecoach) which didn't come back while I was there despite the two Tridents and some others making two rounds trips in this time.

[...]

Neil G.

[Nicholas King]

11508 was definitely seen by others, though perhaps eluded Neil on the day.

 

Nicholas King

 

From: mdekb...@googlegroups.com <mdekb...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Neil Gow
Sent: 18 July 2021 23:17
To: Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Invicta] Sandwich Open Golf

 

I'm not so sure about the third Manchester vehicle now - it was probably 11543 coming back. Best to disregard this unless someone else saw another one.

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[Nicholas King]

Three vehicles from Watts were certainly there, on private hire or excursion work.

                Full details, as far as known, in upcoming Invicta.

                It turns out that quite a few vehicles reported on Park & Ride were actually visiting private hires or excursions, probably mis-reported because they were carrying appropriate access labels to the site in their windscreens.  But the Park & Ride service proper was wholly worked by Stagecoach.

 

Nicholas King

 

From: 'Chris' via Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 19 July 2021 10:42
To: Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Invicta] Sandwich Open Golf

 

Might the non-Stagecoach Wright Gemini have been in Lothian livery? I saw a picture of an ex-Lothian Wright Gemini now in the fleet of G.H. Watts (Leicestershire) in an unstated location allegedly heading for the tournament (one of three) on "social media", but no idea as to what it was used on/for and nothing other than that. 

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[Neil Bays]

I saw 2 heading coast bound on the M2 Wednesday afternoon

Neil B

[JFO]

I also returned to Sandwich on Saturday 17th, and while Stagecoach MMC 26232 YW19VNB was making an unusual appearance on Route 45: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318672264/, I mainly focused on the visiting vehicles though I did Not snap everything, and with this post I shall try to mention the vehicles that I think others may have missed.

"Coastliner700" Bus 10963 SN18KOH: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318955260/.
"Route64" Bus 10889 YX67VCA: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318954955/.
"Coastliner700" Buses 15989 YN64XST and 10008 GX12DXP: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318670974/.
"Coastliner700" Bus 15991 YN64XSV: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318668844/.
"Coastliner700" Buses 15988 YN64XSR and 15987 YN64XSP: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51317946866/.
"Coastliner700" Bus 15990 YN64XSU and "GoldLine1" Bus 10769 SN66VYP: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318665529/.
"Exeter Park & Ride" Bus 10454 SN65NZK: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51317947056/.
"Guildford UniBus" 15985 YN64XSM and "Hop12" Bus 15311 YN67YJU: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51317207307/.

With the sun being out I couldn't do as wide a variety of shots, so I mainly captured vehicles around St. Georges Road Turning in the morning: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51317207612/, before walking out to the temporary Bus Terminal they built out at Royal St. Georges: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318663994/, where not many other photographers seemed to have ventured, and where in the afternoon and evening I captured 2 group shots of waiting vehicles: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318149643/, and though that was as close as I was able to get to them, it included 3 visitors from Stagecoach in East London, 19846 LX13DBZ https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51317207867/, 12398 YX16OUF and 12382 YX16OGW: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318667664/.

As for those ALX400's Neil G. mentions, I saw at least 4 including 18527 GX06DYC, 18523 GX06DXY and 18510 GX06DXH: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318148668/, from Hampshire, and 18310 KX05TWG: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51317941311/, which came from Stagecoach in Warwickshire acording to its driver who sounded local to that Area, while I was also surprised to see a non Stagecoach vehicle in use, in the form of that Goodwards Coaches of Basildon, Essex, Gemini T88PGC new as LJ05PKY that Neil mentioned: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318661854/, though the visitors from Leicestershire that Brian E. saw were not seen.

It should also be mentioned that some vehicles did develop issues during the course of the week, and in some cases had to be replaced by other vehicles that had to be brought over from the same fleets, while there was also an incident on the Friday when 3 deckers knocked each others mirrors off at St. Georges Turning and had to be sent home, which was common knowledge amongst all the other photographers and the Traffic Marshals, one of whom told me that they were now under strict instructions Not to let Buses turn in and out of St. Georges Road at the same time, something which I had observed happen earlier in the week without issue.

Finally I am open to correction on all of this info, as I was not able to note every vehicle I saw over the course of the week, and if Nicholas wishes to use any of my shots for Invicta or any other publications, please let me know and I'll be happy to help.

[Nicholas King]

This is all very useful.

                Small points :

-              the three Stagecoach London vehicles were actually from Selkent, not East London;

-              18310 came from Stagecoach South, whatever its driver may have said (accent or otherwise!).

                I’d like to thank everyone who has posted on this topic during the past week.  Coverage in this month’s Invicta, now being finalised, is the much fuller for it, especially as some of my regular reporters have been away or otherwise not in a position to visit Sandwich.

 

Nicholas King

 

From: 'JFO' via Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 19 July 2021 20:01
To: Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Invicta] Sandwich Open Golf

 

I also returned to Sandwich on Saturday 17th, and while Stagecoach MMC 26232 YW19VNB was making an unusual appearance on Route 45: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69558134@N05/51318672264/, I mainly focused on the visiting vehicles though I did Not snap everything, and with this post I shall try to mention the vehicles that I think others may have missed.

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