If the Bus Fits...

[JFO]

Not to long ago I seem to recall there was some discussion on here about whether Double Decker Buses could fit under Buckhurst Lane Railway Bridge between Wadhurst and Frant in East Sussex, and while looking for something else I remembered this shot I did of GO Ahead London General Buses EH220 YX18KPK passing under Buckhurst Bridge while on SouthEastern Trains Rail Replacement to Tonbridge in April 2022.

[inp...@gmail.com]

In the 1974 to 1976 period PFN860 and 861 (both in National Green) were regulars on an afternoon 84 short working to Flimwell for a time. The conductor alighted before the bridge to assist the driver with positioning.  Note the Summer jacket.

Ian P

[autocar]

Of interest is the requirement for the conductor to assist the bus through this bridge dates from 1930:-

Tunbridge Wells Borough Council, despite a recommendation from the Watch Committee to approve, declined to license the new double-deckers. Autocar appealed to the Ministry of Transport and as a result their inspector, Mr TJD Atkinson, held an enquiry at the town hall on Wednesday 30 April 1930. Mr Hawkins represented Autocar, while the Town Clerk appeared on behalf of the Council. Also present was the Borough Surveyor, Chief Constable, a number of councillors, the Surveyors to Tonbridge and Uckfield Rural District Councils and a member of Ticehurst Rural District Council. Mr Hawkins explained (as reported in the Courier of 2 May 1930) “that no reason for the refusal had been given officially………it appeared that some members did not like the idea of that type of ‘bus in town.” He continued “At the moment one double-decker was operating in Tunbridge Wells. This bus (UU 6610) was licensed by the Council in August 1929 for an experimental period, subject to its being run from between Tunbridge Wells and Tonbridge.” Mr Hawkins also mentioned the previous double deck operations from 1909 and from 1922 to 1927, although both of these were open-top. There was some discussion on the danger of buses hitting lamp standards, but Hawkins offered for the company to bear the cost of any that needs to be moved. The main arguments of the objectors were that the vehicles were not attractive, suitable for the area, or needed for the traffic of the Borough. The inspector asked if any action had been taken during the previous operation of the type and getting a negative reply said “That is the difficulty.” In response to the suggestion that they may get blown over in a gale, he said “I really must get down to something more tangible.” Autocar duly got their double-deckers approved for operation on trunk routes, entering service in June 1930 on the Tonbridge service and on 1 August 1930 elsewhere, but perhaps not all of their aspirations, as only eight were kept here and the other four were moved to East Surrey.

One provision was for the safe operation under the slewed arch under the railway near Wadhurst. As the bus had to pass through the centre of the arch, the conductor was required to walk ahead and blow his whistle if the road was clear.

It must have ended with the last conductors. Various double deckers have been used over the years - Warrens, Eastbourne and Hams mostly for Wadhurst School workings.

Eric

[Neil Bays]

I recall a story told by my dad that when he worked for M&D he was either left behind there as a Conductor or when he progressed to a driver he left his Conductor behind.

Neil B

[Chris]

The 1965 rule book for M&D drivers and conductors is currently on my desk, in the mentally labelled "do something with for History Corner before passing to the Club library?"*. 

Rule 118 says the following:

Services 84, 94 and 110--Railway Bridge, Wadhurst

All double-deck vehicles negotiating this bridge in either direction must keep to the centre of the roadway and approach the bridge at slow speed. The conductor is to alight from the vehicle and, by means of hand signals, pilot the vehicle under the bridge. 

Although other rules (Hollingbourn [sic] and two in Strood) require a moderate speed approach, this is the only bridge that required a 'slow' approach and for the conductor to alight. 

* If of interest to members, I might push it up the pile a bit quicker! 

[Richard Ratcliffe]

M&D always managed to spell Hollingbourne without an “e”.  Similarly Chatham & District’s quirky spelling of “Waggon” in the destination “Luton Waggon-at-Hale”   The pub sign only (correctly) ever had a single “g”

 

Ratty

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[Jeremy Cooper]

When we took over the 254 at Stagecoach Hastings following the collapse of Countryliner we did consider using double-deckers on certain workings on the route (I think it was rather than using two buses in the pm school peak) but decided that it was too much of a risk to expect drivers accustomed to single-deckers to remember to go in the centre of the road if they happened to have a double-decker. So we knew they would fit, just banned them to avoid an accident.

[Neil Gow]

I can also confirm the same wording is on page 78 of the 1956 edition of the rule book (rule 126).

Interesting that the number of rules seems to have decreased slightly between 1956 and 1965, despite the addition of two more depots and another low bridge in the intervening period.

[Neil Gow]

Lowheight double deckers were later permitted on the 254 (and 349), without conductors, at least by 1982. Here's a small selection of pictures I have - one is at Wadhurst but in the vicinity of the station rather than the bridge. 6102 is actually on a Hastings local service but I included it because it would have arrived from TW the evening before and overnighted at Silverhill, and was working local services before returning on the 1735 journey to TW (which exchanged drivers at Sandhurst with the last southbound journey at the time).

6102 - Hastings - July 1982

5813 - near Wadhurst - June 1985

5821 - Hawkhurst - June 1985

5886 - Hawkhurst - October 1992

Warrens ex M&D GKL 827N - Tunbridge Wells - February 1992

The 5886 picture is also of note, as Hastings & District were still running the route through to Tunbridge Wells but 156 was taken off at Hawkhurst with a minor defect and 5886 loaned for a couple of hours before 156 was substituted back on a few minutes after the picture was taken. So at least one Hastings driver has piloted a double decker under that bridge.

[JFO]

I had a feeling there would end up being some pictures from you Neil!, and for the record Seaford & District double deckers can also fit under Buckhurst Bridge too.

[JFO]

While in Sussex on Saturday 8th I returned to Buckhurst Bridge and captured Travelmasters FJ08FYK to show that the Bus still fits...