Tomorrow in McLaren: Let's clean up the pond's bottom!

[Tom Scott]

Do you want to get muddy in McLaren Park tomorrow? I'm heading over to the drained upper reservoir at 11am Saturday to pick up the hundreds of tennis balls and sunken dog toys. If you have time and don't mind getting a little dirty, please join me!

There isn't time to organize this with park staff, so please bring whatever supplies you can, including good mud boots, work gloves and garbage bags. We'll bring the full bags up to the regular garbage pick-up spot at the parking lot. 

For those who haven't heard, the upper reservoir is being drained to replace an important pump in the park's irrigation system. I spoke with workers today who say the level will remain low for possibly a week. Some water remains for the fish and other wildlife that depend on it.

As previously reported, the reservoir's bottom is littered with hundreds (thousands?) of sunken balls, dog toys and miscellaneous garbage. Some volunteers have already wandered into the muck to get started on this project, filling up one large garbage bin. This is a rare opportunity to remove all this garbage while access is easy.

When: Saturday, November 23 at 11am

Where: Upper reservoir, McLaren Park

What to bring: Mud boots, work gloves, heavy-duty garbage bags, drinking water.

--
TOM SCOTT
415.830.1045

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TOM SCOTT
415.830.1045

[Tom Borden]

Wow, go fetch gone wrong.  You have to wonder what might be leaching out of all that plastic and rubber.  At least all the waterlogged sticks and pine cones are harmless.

Tom B.

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[Dan Schneider]

It is enlightening to know that all recreational activities (no matter how docile they appear) leave a stain on the park. 

Makes one wonder if all the toys and mud/hair from dogs in the lake are a part of the reason the pump fails and it needs to be drained. From what I saw yesterday it took about a dozen SFRPD staff on-site working for several days to mitigate the situation... which must cost some money against the maintenance budget of the park.

Sorry I am unavailable this weekend. 

Appreciate everyones hard work to improve McLaren Park.

Just a heads up.

SFUR is happy to announce the first in a series of Volunteer Trail Work dates has been set with SFRPD Natural Areas staff.

Saturday December 7th from 9:30am-12:30pm in McLaren Park

SFUR anticipates between 18-25 volunteers will attend depending on the weather.

Viva McLaren Park

Dan Schneider

SF Urban Riders

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[Bruce Wolfe]

I've sent this out to the dog community to take some responsibility and come and help. I am trying to move things around to be there myself to help though my dog doesn't swim (yet) we frequent it to watch and cajole her.

Now, I spoke the McLaren Park manager about this repair. He assured me it was going to be just a day thing, not a week. I am concerned about the water wildlife because now that it is drained this far, the concentration of crap in the water is what they have to swim in which probably has far less capacity to hold oxygen for the koi. It's kinda a slow death for them and they are very sensitive. Think of goldfish in a bowl.

I'm calling him again to question their knowledge of how to take care of the wildlife and if they consulted with anyone. They say folks have emptied their pets in there. So, my sense is they rather it be void of the animals altogether. Too late and too bad. They are now stewards.

Bruce

On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Tom Scott <tosc...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Leila]

I've just returned from my third trip to the reservoir today. Our gardeners were able to capture several of the huge koi and a few turtles. They're being relocated to McNab. Having overheard that they "didn't need to but the public is concerned", I am grateful to fellow stewards for raising the alarm on behalf of the vulnerable critters.

The hydro-engineer plans to begin refilling the reservoir tonight so we'll have to be quick to clear what we can over the next few days. I found a yellow submarine in the muck this morning. Who knows what else we may find...

Buckets are best for collecting the crap. Waterlogged toys are heavy!

[Bruce Wolfe]

I called with a lengthy message to Mr. Watkins earlier today explaining that when I spoke to him last week he said that the work would just be a couple of days and the koi and turtles would be migrated to McNab or in a tank until they finished. I also asked being that it was going to be this long if he had thought about the concentration of algae and muck in the reduced water table that the wildlife had to live in for the extended period of time, and that the oxygen content may be changed in such a way that could harm them. I also asked if he contacted any wildlife experts or consultants considering the extended time they would have to be in the reduced water table. I did get a return call that I couldn't take but no message left.

Bruce

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[Leila]

I went back up to keep working on the toys, and several people pitched in so we made quite a dent on the north end.

Nick and Co. were still hard at work catching fish and turtles. Nick put in a call to the engineer who has given us a few days to clean up. So the water won't be turned on until early next week. Yay!

Dan brought up the Cushman and hauled away at least 15 bags full of toys/balls. I mentioned the full green recycle container and he said he'd deal with that early next week.

Nick asked us to bag up the dog toy crap and leave them by the north end of the reservoir so we don't' have to haul them up the hill. Our very appreciative gardeners will pick up the bags early next week.

[Bruce Wolfe]

But then what is that deep blue-green color of the water? Weird algae? And, yes, if they are using "tap" water then it must have its Ph tested regularly.

Bruce

On Nov 22, 2013 5:42 PM, "Betty Parshall" <bpar...@flash.net> wrote:

Just to add a little more information: over a year ago friends and I saw a fellow measuring the circumference of the reservoir fence with eye to R&P installing a new, closed fence to keep dogs out.  It would be long time coming, no funds.  However he explained that the biggest problem with the outflow of water was the filter jammed with dog hair

and the department would like to resolve that.

Maybe some of those able to get up there when the workers are there could inquire about this.

 

My second thought: in the past when the reservoir was very low (problem with the influx, if that's the word) and then finally was refilled, we saw many dead fish due to the chloramine which is added.  The water comes directly from Crystal Springs, and in the past no effort was made to neutralize the water going into the reservoir.

Someone told me that one time several fish died due to the same reason at GG Park and the public raised a huge stink so now water going into the Tea Garden etc. is neutralized.  Don't know if this is accurate information and I doubt R&P would have the same concern for McLaren, just thought we should be prepared to see some dead fish when the reservoir is filled.

From: Bruce Wolfe <brucew...@gmail.com>
To: McLaren Park Collaborative <mclarenparkc...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [mclarenparkcollabor Re: Tomorrow in McLaren: Let's clean up the pond's bottom!

I called with a lengthy message to Mr. Watkins earlier today explaining that when I spoke to him last week he said that the work would just be a couple of days and the koi and turtles would be migrated to McNab or in a tank until they finished. I also asked being that it was going to be this long if he had thought about the concentration of algae and muck in the reduced water table that the wildlife had to live in for the extended period of time, and that the oxygen content may be changed in such a way that could harm them. I also asked if he contacted any wildlife experts or consultants considering the extended time they would have to be in the reduced water table. I did get a return call that I couldn't take but no message left.

Bruce

On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Leila <cleve...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've just returned from my third trip to the reservoir today. Our gardeners were able to capture several of the huge koi and a few turtles. They're being relocated to McNab. Having overheard that they "didn't need to but the public is concerned", I am grateful to fellow stewards for raising the alarm on behalf of the vulnerable critters.

The hydro-engineer plans to begin refilling the reservoir tonight so we'll have to be quick to clear what we can over the next few days. I found a yellow submarine in the muck this morning. Who knows what else we may find...

Buckets are best for collecting the crap. Waterlogged toys are heavy!

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[Bruce Wolfe]

I'm concerned now that McNab Lake where the waterlife has been relocated has equally the same problem with the water's Ph. If anyone has a fish tank or swimming pool kit, may want to head over there to check it out and just inform them.

"However, as with chlorine, chloramine will need to be removed for fish and amphibian use, and for people or businesses requiring highly treated water."

http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=357

The below information on the SFWATER.org website is very informative and definite. Park managers and workers should be aware of these concerns when they refill it.

SFPUC Website Chloramine Q&A 2013-06-29 Page 48 ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat Jun 29, 2013 ... aquarium water for total chlorine and ammonia. ... the same temperature but at a pH of 8, such as in marine aquarium, the percentage of ... www.sfwater.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=4133

SFPUC Website Chloramine Q&A 2013-06-29 Page 27 ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat Jun 29, 2013 ... Three special user groups, kidney dialysis patients, aquarium owners, and businesses or industries that use water in their manufacturing ... www.sfwater.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=4125

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[Melanie W]

Bruce and all,
That would be great to get some help from the professional dog walkers who use this lake. Also some education about not throwing tennis balls, frisbees, and toys that leak / sink into the pond would be helpful. Thanks for assistance on this.

With the water level so low, I feel bad for the innocent fish, turtles, and other critters. Please come out everyone today 11am to help clean the reservoir!

Thanks.
Melanie

[Betty Parshall]

I was expressing concern about the chloramine, different from the Ph factor.  Chloramine is toxic to fish.  Ph factor also important, but a different condition to deal with.

Betty

From: Bruce Wolfe <bru...@dogpacsf.org>
To: McLaren Park Collaborative <mclarenparkc...@googlegroups.com>; SFDog.org <sf...@yahoogroups.com>; "OceanB...@yahoogroups.com" <OceanB...@yahoogroups.com>; Prodogwalkers <prodog...@yahoogroups.com>; sf-german-shepherds <sf-german...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mclarenparkcollabor Re: Tomorrow in McLaren: Let's clean up the pond's bottom!

I'm concerned now that McNab Lake where the waterlife has been relocated has equally the same problem with the water's Ph. If anyone has a fish tank or swimming pool kit, may want to head over there to check it out and just inform them.

"However, as with chlorine, chloramine will need to be removed for fish and amphibian use, and for people or businesses requiring highly treated water."

http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=357

The below information on the SFWATER.org website is very informative and definite. Park managers and workers should be aware of these concerns when they refill it.

SFPUC Website Chloramine Q&A 2013-06-29 Page 48 ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat Jun 29, 2013 ... aquarium water for total chlorine and ammonia. ... the same temperature but at a pH of 8, such as in marine aquarium, the percentage of ... www.sfwater.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=4133

SFPUC Website Chloramine Q&A 2013-06-29 Page 27 ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat Jun 29, 2013 ... Three special user groups, kidney dialysis patients, aquarium owners, and businesses or industries that use water in their manufacturing ... www.sfwater.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=4125

On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Leila <cleve...@gmail.com> wrote:

I went back up to keep working on the toys, and several people pitched in so we made quite a dent on the north end. Nick and Co. were still hard at work catching fish and turtles. Nick put in a call to the engineer who has given us a few days to clean up. So the water won't be turned on until early next week. Yay!Dan brought up the Cushman and hauled away at least 15 bags full of toys/balls. I mentioned the full green recycle container and he said he'd deal with that early next week. Nick asked us to bag up the dog toy crap and leave them by the north end of the reservoir so we don't' have to haul them up the hill. Our very appreciative gardeners will pick up the bags early next week.

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[Melanie W]

Tom and I in about four other helpers collected approximately 2,000 fish and turtles and move them over to a more watery area. But but but please fish will die if water is not put back into the lake within a day or two. I urge everyone please to make a call to park in wreck or neck to get the water turned on as soon as possible. I'm not trying to be dramatic but one phone call from you could save a lot of fish please help. I'm still here getting the last of the fish . The rest is up to Park and Rec to get moving as quick as possible . Melanie

On Nov 23, 2013 9:46 AM, "Linda Stark Litehiser" <linda....@gmail.com> wrote:

Melanie...I was at the lake yesterday. They have taken out just about all the fish...and critters. Nick and his staff are doing a great job with this project. I think things are going to be fine. Yes...we should tell people about throwing things in the lake. There are so many sticks too! I wish we could come but we have an appointment this morning and an event this afternoon....it is a beautiful day! 

Linda 

Linda Stark Litehiser

Park and Community Advocate

415-585-8005 

415-516-9224 cell

[Linda Stark Litehiser]

Melanie, there is a plan to put chlorine in the water on Monday when the lake is filled back up...so that is why RPD was moving the fish and turtles to McNab lake. They did move all (or most) of the large Carp--I saw one that was about 30 lbs....and lots of turtle and smaller fish. Nick and several gardeners were moving fish and turtles until quite late last night. I don't know how the chlorine will affect the fish that are currently there now.  But it will evaporate after a time and be safe to move the fish back. At least that is my understanding of how things are going to work. 

Linda 

[Ed Brownson]

It is crucial to determine exactly what chemical RPD will be putting in the reservoir: Chlorine or Chloramine. True, chlorine dissipates in a few days leaving the water (relatively) harmless for fish etc. However, most water today is treated with chloramine and has been since 2004. Chloramine does NOT dissipate in a few days; special chemicals are needed to neutralize it. Info here from SF Water; here is the relevant paragraph (click on "animals and the environment" in the above link to find it):

Chloramine does not bioaccumulate or transfer up the food chain (Environment Canada, 2002). 

For fish-owners, the challenge with chloramine is twofold: it does not dissipate rapidly so letting 

the water sit for a day or two will not make it safe for fish, and the “chlorine neutralizers” are not 

effective for chloramine (Harms and Owen, 2004). The ammonia in the chloraminated water may 

be harmful to fish under certain conditions. Chloramine neutralizing chemicals are available in pet 

stores. Utilities dechlorinate water when discharging large volumes of chloraminated or 

chlorinated water to the environment. 

 

Chloramine has been the bane of home aquarium enthusiasts since municipalities started using it. How exactly it would work in the reservoir I don't know, but it is worth finding out.

Below, Linda says RPD will be moving the critters back to the reservoir "after a time". We must verify with RPD which chemical will be added to the water and if it is to be chloramine, the appropriate neutralizers will be added.

Ed