FW: launch of an interactive castles of Ireland map

[Leonard J. McCown]

This sure does look interesting. Thought others might also find it so. Leonard

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

From: Tyrone Bowes Ph.D. [mailto:tyron...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 5:39 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: launch of an interactive castles of Ireland map

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

An interactive Castles of Ireland map has been launched on the Irish Origenes website: http://www.irishorigenes.com/irish-castle-locations 

It features 1,375 castles associated with over 400 Clans and Families.

The Irish Origenes website is completely open access and contains all the resources that one will require to pinpoint ones Irish Genetic Homeland using the results of a Y-DNA 37 marker test.

 

Regards

 

Tyrone

 

--

Dr Tyrone Bowes

mobile: 00 353 872561120

www.irishorigenes.com 

www.scottishorigenes.com

www.englishorigenes.com

http://www.facebook.com/IrishOrigenes

Tweet: @BowesDr

 

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Okay that looks exciting!  So can someone who knows that DNA stuff line up Alexander and Frances descendants so we know where we fall and which castle is ours!

Thank you, Leonard!

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ANN MCELHANEY

annm...@aol.com

[Chris McCown]

We need a known descendant of Alexander to test first.

Based on Y-DNA, my current hypothesis has Francis McCown's male line in the Galloway region of Scotland sometime within the past 1000 years.

[ANN MCELHANEY]

So wouldn't that be you, Bill in Katy????

[Chris McCown]

Speaking of which, there is a new DNA test that has an AMAZING price.  It's tests all three aspects of your DNA( Y, mtDNA, autosominal ).  It costs $199.  I've probably paid at least 10 times that for less information over the years.

After you test it, transfer the results to FTDNA and join the McCown DNA Project.  

The DNA testing is actually done by FTDNA's lab, but it's for Nat Geo.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/

You can order it here.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/

Chris

[McCown, Bill]

Yes there are several of us.

[Chris McCown]

Make that 5 times the price.  It's only 10 times if you count my Mother's testing as well.

[Chris McCown]

FYI,

I don't mean to discriminate against women when I say this but it's much better if you test a male.  

The reason for this is because men carry the Y and the X chromosome and women carry two Xs.  The Y chromosome is what we use to determine the origin of the direct male line and the McCown surname.  You can also learn the direct maternal line from a male's X.

So if you're female, try to find a a Brother or Father to test in your place because you can learn about the direct paternal and maternal lines from a male.  If a female tests you can only learn about your direct maternal line. 

Autosominal( the 21 chromosomes in the middle ), can be tested for both.

Chris

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Well for sure we know that.   That is why it is called YDNA, right.  So, Chris, do we know these results transfer????  And in the transferring what is scored differently.  I mean what markers have to be altered mathematically.  And how many markers does it show?  I am in the process of purchasing for my Morris line a 67 YDNA and like  you, Chris, I've sent a couple of thousand getting others tested so saving some would be nice.

ann

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Bill, are you serious!  Have you never had your DNA done?  Geeze, I've done my grandsons just as a means of making sure they don't ever get framed for something.  If I had Y chromo I would be delighted to get this done.

Please, cuz!

[Chris McCown]

Ann,

The Nat Geo, Geno 2.0 test is done by FTDNA's lab and rumor is that they will allow transfer.  There may be a marginal fee to do so.  However, Geno 2.0 is so new, you can only pre-order it.    The kits don't even ship until 10/30/2012.   Nobody has seen what the results look like, but according the description they will have what FTDNA has plus more... so the transfer should be straight forward.... I hope.  

If not, just share your results with me and I can determine which McCown group you belong to.

Chris

PS, the McCown DNA Project does not share any information without getting your permission to first.  If you have any privacy concerns, feel free to email me and I'll work with you to protect your privacy.

[lannie]

Hi Chis,
George and I have not received our 111 results back yet. I received
a notice that there was going to be a delay
and that they might have to send me a new swab kit (at no charge).
Hoping to hear something soon.
I downloaded Robert D Walker's Gedcom file and started looking at his
ancestry. First, We know exacly how
Fedorge and Robert are related and they both descend from Patrick
Walker (b 1648 Aberdeen,Scotlan) through
his son Alexander (b 16 Feb 1675) to Alexander's son John (b 15 July
1706 in Petrcutter Aberdeen) then to his son
James (b Aug 1744) .

This is where Robert and George's lineage splits. For Robert,
James(1744) son Matthew (b 1764 in N.C. USA)
then on down to Robert.

For George, from James (b Aug 1744) to his son Moses (b 1765 N.C.) then
on down to George.

From all of this I have determined, using birthdates for my Samuel and
the sons of James (1744) that I do not descend from
Matthew(1764) or Moses (1765) or Robert (1766).

Now, nothing is known about Robert(1766) but from his birthdate, my
Samuel(b 1770-1780) it is most unlikely that he
could be my Samuel's father, even with my Samuel being born in 1780,
Robert would be only 14 year of age.

Now John (1706) had two other sons besides James(1744), John (Nov
1736), and Alexander (Oct 1739).

I am discounting them because of the closeness of my DNA match with
George and Robert . I just cannot
visualize a mutation schedule that would allow that, but nothing is
known of John(1736) and Alexander(1739).

I don't know what the nominal mutation rate is but trying to divine just
where the mutation occurred that
caused George's and my DNA values to be one off in 67 from Robert's, to
me asks the question; can we know if
that mutation occurred between James(1744) and Matthew(1764) or
somewhere between Matthew(1764) and
Robert D Walker also knowing that my ancestor could not have been
Matthew (1764) or Moses(1765) .
We can know that either is possible without disturbing the matc between
George and myself.
My brain is numb I quit!
Lannie

Chris McCown wrote:
> We need a known descendant of Alexander to test first.
>
> Based on Y-DNA, my current hypothesis has Francis McCown's male line
> in the Galloway region of Scotland sometime within the past 1000 years.
>
> On Aug 9, 2012, at 10:56 PM, ANN MCELHANEY wrote:
>
>> Okay that looks exciting! So can someone who knows that DNA stuff
>> line up Alexander and Frances descendants so we know where we fall
>> and which castle is ours!
>>
>> Thank you, Leonard!
>>
>> On Aug 9, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Leonard J. McCown wrote:
>>

>>> *This sure does look interesting. Thought others might also find it
>>> so. Leonard*
>>> **
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> **
>>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>>> *leo...@mccown.org
>>> <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org
>>> <http://www.mccown.org/>*
>>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to*
>>> *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>>> **
>>> *From:*Tyrone Bowes Ph.D. [mailto:tyron...@gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:*Thursday, August 09, 2012 5:39 PM
>>> *To:*undisclosed-recipients:
>>> *Subject:*launch of an interactive castles of Ireland map

>>> Dear Sir/Madam,
>>> An interactive Castles of Ireland map has been launched on the Irish
>>> Origenes website: http://www.irishorigenes.com/irish-castle-locations
>>> It features 1,375 castles associated with over 400 Clans and Families.
>>> The Irish Origenes website is completely open access and contains
>>> all the resources that one will require to pinpoint ones Irish
>>> Genetic Homeland using the results of a Y-DNA 37 marker test.
>>> Regards
>>> Tyrone
>>> --
>>> Dr Tyrone Bowes
>>> mobile: 00 353 872561120

>>> www.irishorigenes.com <http://www.irishorigenes.com/>
>>> www.scottishorigenes.com <http://www.scottishorigenes.com/>
>>> www.englishorigenes.com <http://www.englishorigenes.com/>

>>> http://www.facebook.com/IrishOrigenes
>>> Tweet: @BowesDr
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "McCown Family History" group.

>>> To post to this group, send email tomc...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>.

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>>> tomccown+u...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:mccown+un...@googlegroups.com>.

>>> For more options, visit this group
>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/mccown?hl=en.
>>
>> ANN MCELHANEY

>> annm...@aol.com <mailto:annm...@aol.com>

>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> <mailto:mccown+un...@googlegroups.com>.

[ANN MCELHANEY]

What are 111 results?

ANN MCELHANEY

annm...@aol.com

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Thank you, Chris.  This is exciting.  Well I won't have any YDNA but I am hoping someone in the Col James line who bears the last name will do so!

[McCown, Bill]

Ann, I thought that Mic Barnette had done the DNA profile?  If none of the other Col James or Sampson descendants have, then I could be a candidate.

[msimp...@aol.com]

Yes,Yes...I agree Ann!

Lisa Simpson Luke -- Sent from my HP TouchPad

---

[Chris McCown]

Does Col James descend from Alexander?

The current McCown DNA results don't have anyone claiming Alexander as their deepest known ancestor.  I sure would be cool to find out if Francis and Alexander were related.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mccown/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

Chris

[McCown, Bill]

From viewing the dna results in the table, it doesn’t appear that anyone from Alexander has done a DNA profile. 

 

Mic, I think you and I ought to do a profile to see the alignment.

[Chris McCown]

Here is my hypothesis on Francis ancient line which was the first to test positive(publicly) for newly discovered DF41 SNP.

DF41 appears to be about 2000 years old( at the moment ).  It currently contains 3 distinct haplotypes so far.  1) Francis' haplotype( 1426 ) - which has a whole slew of Scotch-Irish Americans surnames 2) Royal Stewards who are believed to be descendants of the former Kings of Scotland and UK.  3) Two Irish lads.

I hypothesize that Francis's type( 1426 ) is from the Galloway and/or Strathclyde/Cumbria region.  I believe this for two reasons.  1) We match a slew of McClellans whose clan is from Kirkcudbright/Balmaclellan.  2) Most surnames in Francis's Y-DNA matches is from this bellow list.

http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=98&p=localities.britisles.scotland.kkd.general

Barton, Bratton, Burney(McBurnie), Cannon, Cowan(McCown), Chambers(Chamberlain), Gordon, McClellan, McCune, Miller, Morrison, Nichols(Nicholson) Ramsey, Robinson, Smith, Tait, Turner, Wilson, Wright.

The second haplotype, The Royal Stewarts trace their line back to Brittany, but believe they were pushed back into Brittany from SW Britain by the Saxons.

The third haplotype, the Irish lads, appear to have ties to Mayo/Connacht.

The one tribe that fits all three of these locations knowns as the ( Dumnonii, Damnonii, Domnann ).   The Irish version of the Tribe would be the Fir Domnann that lived in Connacht.  The Stewarts would have been the Dumnonii variety in Cornwall that migrated to Brittany with Conan Meridoc.  1426(Francis) would have been the Damnonii variety that lived in Strathclyde.

Keep in mind this is just my current hypothesis.   As more and more data become available, it is subject to change.

If you want to see an drawing of a genetic tree with McCowns in it, you can do a control-F and search for DF41... or P66( for the Maguire line ) at the bellow links by Alexander Williamson.  You can also just search for McCown.  The kits in green are verified for DF41.  The other kits are currently speculative.

67 markers:

http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120727.pdf

111 markers:

http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120803.pdf

Enjoy,

Chris

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mccown/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

[James McCown]

I have taken the 12 marker y-DNA test and it showed an exact match with known descendants of francis McCown and also a descendant of the six brothers. I need to get it upgraded to the 111 marker test.

I am the gg -grandson of col James McCown.

[James McCown]

There are many who say Col James is the grandson of an Alexander McCown and I respect their opinions. I have yet to see any solid evidence of who the father of Sampson McCown b south Carolina in 1775 was.

It may be his fathers name was alexander,  but I think there were at least 3 different mccowns by that name at that time in s Carolina.

[Chris McCown]

James, for the price of the 111 marker upgrade, you should consider ordering the Geno 2.0 instead.  

[Chris McCown]

Actually, James, maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe 111 would be useful.

There is a lot of confusing and conflicting information going on with Geno 2.0.

http://genealem-geneticgenealogy.blogspot.com/2012/07/geno-20-q-with-bennett-greenspan.html

"STR results will not be supplied by Geno 2.0 and all regular genealogical marker tests should be ordered through Family Tree DNA.  These two tests go hand in hand."

But from this link... it says.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/

"The days of sequencing 12 markers in the lab are gone forever, replaced by high-speed sequencing that looks at half a million markers, or more, at a time, and for the same price as a 12 marker test and the mitochondrial DNA test, together, would have cost in Nat Geo 1.0."

"The standard STR (Short Tandem Repeat) markers we know and love will become the leaves on the branches of the tree and these will likely be used when there are no more SNPs to determine family groupings and line marker mutations within families. "

Chris

[James McCown]

Chris, isn't Todd McCune a descendant of that Alexander? His dna is an exact match with the descendants of francis

On Aug 10, 2012 10:14 AM, "Chris McCown" <chris...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Chris McCown]

I don't want to give away which kit is Todd's without his permission.  All I can say is that no McCown DNA Project member has claimed Alexander as their deepest known McCown ancestor.

Chris

[James McCown]

Chris, perhaps you and i are thinking of two different Alexanders? When/ where was the man you refer to born?

[Chris McCown]

I'm referring to the one that was a Presbyterian minister that had the 6 sons... that I've so often heard about on the boards( the Reds and the Blacks ).  Everyone has always suspected that Francis and Alexander were related, but I don't think anyone has ever proved it.

[Annmclpc]

As I understand the story, Col James is supposedly the descendant of  the Alexander of the 6 brothers.  Tell me if that i not correct.  I realize we do not have the 'proof' but decades before me someone decided this.

Ann W McElhaney

[Annmclpc]

Thanks for that McCown DNA page. . some one has James McCown kit #N42581. . .any idea who that might be?  Is there anyone on that page who claims Sampson or Col James ?

Ann W McElhaney

-----Original Message-----
From: James McCown <jjjun...@gmail.com>
To: mccown <mcc...@googlegroups.com>

[Chris McCown]

This Alexander....

http://books.google.com/books?id=Op3cC6_UNnQC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=alexander+mccown+6+sons+reds+and+blacks&source=bl&ots=U0lEUNXaoy&sig=yF1f_QC7UawmDs_aXLASExl_SsY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x0slUOTmC4H48wSwpYGoBw&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=alexander%20mccown%206%20sons%20reds%20and%20blacks&f=false

What an interesting book title that is...

[Annmclpc]

Isthis James in Oklahoma?  You have a match with the first 12 markers and that tells us something but I am not sure how far back.  I am sure you told us your kit number at one time.  Would you share that again please?

Ann W McElhaney

-----Original Message-----
From: James McCown <jjjun...@gmail.com>
To: mccown <mcc...@googlegroups.com>

[Leonard J. McCown]

Sadly, Mic can only test for the Barnette Y-DNA study. He has researched the McCowns for years, but still does not have the surname. SO, Bill, we need you, and would be nice really to have two test from that line, maybe off different brothers. Just my 2 cents worth. Leonard

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[Leonard J. McCown]

Thanks so much Chris!

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

From: mcc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris McCown

Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:00 AM
To: mcc...@googlegroups.com

--

[Leonard J. McCown]

Do we know how many markers the Geno 2.0 will have?

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

From: mcc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris McCown

Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:42 AM
To: mcc...@googlegroups.com

[Leonard J. McCown]

Todd McCune is a descendant of Rev. Alexander McCown, b. abt 1680/90, Ballymoney Co., Antrim, Ireland. There are many many Alexanders. I don’t think this is the same one. Leonard

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[Annmclpc]

This SNP thing:  does it show up in the marker tests or is it inferred in them or is it totally separate.  That is interesting about the names as I also have a Gordon line! 

 

Can I forward this email to my Gordon group, Chris?

Ann W McElhaney

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard J. McCown <leo...@mccown.org>
To: mccown <mcc...@googlegroups.com>

[Chris McCown]

I thought it was going to have half a million but then I read elsewhere that it would not have any.

It basically sounds like Geno 2.0 replaces the Deep Clade, mtDNA and aspects of the Family Finder.

It sounds like STR markers( 37,67,111) are still only done by FTDNA.

Not that any of it is all that clear at the moment.

[Leonard J. McCown]

That kit is Ashby’s, so probably a different James. I show James Ross McCown as the only one from Alexander. HOWEVER, some members of the group have never posted a family tree chart, so difficult to know how they might fit into the mix. That is an important step too. Leonard

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[Leonard J. McCown]

According to what I have, and not sure if Mic shared this with me, or perhaps his Mom did. Col. James McCown is from the same Rev. Alexander McCown, b. ca. 1680/90, Ireland, though his son Alexander, then, Major John McCown, then Sampson, then Col. James. How sure how firm the paper trail and documentation is on this. That is a Mic question . . . Leonard

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[Chris McCown]

Sure, However, there are many Gordon lines.  

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/gordondna/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

[Chris McCown]

If Todd descends from Alexander, then Alexander and Francis are related.

[James McCown]

That's the alexander I was thinking of. Many have said Sampson McCown,  who was born in south caroline in 1775 is his grandson by alexander of the six brothers.

[Kathy L Tennimon]

McClune 45814 and mine is 21624.   We both matched but mine goes back to Francis. 

Kathy Tennimon

Sent from my iPad

[James McCown]

Yes this is james Ross McCown in Oklahoma. My kit number is 20664.

[Leonard J. McCown]

Todd matches the descendants of Francis very well. He was the test that told me that the Pennsylvania and Virginia (Francis) were kin.

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[McCown, Bill]

Leonard, I never felt so needed. Which test should I do?

[Leonard J. McCown]

SORRY, I didn’t intend to reveal Ashby’s kit number. Was not thinking . . . what else is new. Sorry Ashby. Hope you don’t mind. Leonard

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[Thomas Ashby McCown]

Leonard,

 

A fair number of kit numbers are coming out in this discussion.   I hope we are all bound by the deepest oaths of confidentiality.   May Saint Comgan strike us all mute (and banned from the internet) if we ever disclose  a digit.

 

[Seriously, we all need to be concerned about identity theft.]

 

The conversation, however, is getting very interesting.

 

Ashby

[McCown, Bill]

This does not line up with the info I have gathered on the line from Alexander to Sampson? Where did Major John come from?
 

From: Leonard J. McCown [mailto:leo...@mccown.org]
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 01:32 PM
To: mcc...@googlegroups.com <mcc...@googlegroups.com>

[Leonard J. McCown]

Bill, I think Chris would agree with me that do the test to take your markers on up to 111 or at least part of the way. You might want to wait until they have a sale though. They have done the one for this summer, but usually do one again near Christmas. Not always the best time, because of vacation and Christmas gifts, but probably no good time. I am in 7 surname studies so wait for the sale!

 

Chris, if you think different, speak up please. Leonard

[Leonard J. McCown]

Thanks Ashby. Hopefully no thieves are amongst us!!! I agree our discussion has been a good one today.

 

I expected a Gaelic curse . . . : )

 

Leonard

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[McCown, Bill]

Thanks Leonard. Is there a web site I can monitor or get on a list?

[Chris McCown]

Without seeing everyone's family tree's, it's hard for me to know which branches we're trying to connect.  However, I will never discourage someone from taking the 111 marker test unless you're trying to pinch pennies.  It's always nice to have more participants in the project.

My only request is, don't order a kit with less than 37 markers.  67 is the current standard and all the researchers are trying to move to 111.

Chris

[Chris McCown]

I don't think anyone can steal your identity based on these markers or kit numbers.  They only reason to not share it is if you don't want anyone to know that your related to us McCowns.... or if you're some type of criminal that's left a trail of DNA at all your crime scenes.   These markers probably wouldn't hold up in court but they might provide a clue as to the ethnicity of the perpetrator.

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Well I think we agree that they are indeed related.  How do you prove that as I thought we thought they were brothers or at least uncle and nephew.

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Thank you, James!

On Aug 10, 2012, at 1:41 PM, James McCown wrote:

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Yippee!  I vote for YDNA67

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Okay, I'm bound to silence but it is okay for us to know isn't it?

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Speaking of which what exactly did that curse evoke?  Could we have a blessing as well for the commitment to confidentiality!  BTW at least you woke Ashby!

[McCown, Bill]

I thought the 111 was the preferred one?

[Chris McCown]

111 is the best.  67 is second best.

After you get your results, I'm going to request that you spend another $29 on verifying your DF41 SNP so you can join the L21+ Project and get drawn in the next round of trees by Alexander Williamson.  BTW, Alexander said he might only draw 111 marker trees from now on.

Chris

[Thomas Ashby McCown]

Chris,

 

That is not correct.  Identities are built up using pieces of information.   A 67-marker YDNA result is more specific than a great deal of identifying information that we are urged to hold closely.  For example, we are advised to make modest use of our birthdays (which some institutions use to confirm the identity of callers), to hold our Social Security numbers closely (and in my youth a person could be issued as many numbers as they liked, and Social Security request for identification was pretty careless), signatures from digital files can nowadays, I am fairly sure, can pass expert examination, and of course the world has been awash in reissued (to the wrong party) birth certificates for decades.   There is a reason for the vast amount of money spent on encryption and electronic signatures.  Just because you have not seen the data misused to date – and it may have been for all I know – does not mean that one should deem it irrelevant.   The problem of identity theft, or even identity loss, is a decades long threat.

 

The imminent harm comes from hacking sweeps of many sources that build up identities --  of various states of completion.   (I have been able to find email exchanges in which I was a subject of exchanges on forums, or groups groups, by a simple google search, and a hacker has means far more sophisticated than the algorithms that Google lets us use – and Google has recently changed its privacy policy to make all information of users of its services more widely available within its various units.)  You have it backwards, Chris.   Criminals probably don’t worry excessively about DNA disclosure.  Honest people do.   Beginning, as we all may have experienced, with unwanted goods ordered in our name.  A person’s bank accounts can emptied, or very large loans taken out in their name.   Or serious crimes may be committed using someone’s identity as a mask.     (And I cannot believe that anyone thinks no innocent man has ever been hanged.) That is why the law restricts the use of personal information.

 

[I believe that there are those in this forum that have had experience in computer security questions.]

 

You are incorrect that “the only reason not to share it is that if you don’t want anyone to know that your related to us McCowns.”  My kit has been part of FamilytreeDNA for quite awhile, and I have quite a few matches.   I have made the results of my tests available, in some cases on request, to certain forums under the standard conditions that the information was confidential.    On the other hand, I have been tracking down papers for over thirty years, and have spent many pleasant hours perusing documents in small courthouses.   On the basis of the many dead ends of the paper trails, I believed that it was unlikely that I was connected, within the last couple of centuries, to the McCowns in this forum.   That has been known as least twenty years and the DNA only confirmed that conclusion.  [Incidentally I have been contacted on a couple of occasions over the years (based on the paper chase) by people that confirmed McCown connections from several generations ago – and we were able to exchange family letters relevant to our respective branches – or perhaps better twigs.]

 

I am not as worried about this forum having the DNA information as with the fact that the information could now well be public.  This might be case for the other kit numbers discussed as well.   And I certainly do not think the information should go further. [If there were any way to excise the numbers it should probably be done, but I am not sure how to go about it.]

 

Leis gach deagh dhùrachd

 

Ashby

[lannie]

That 111 sale sure save me a bundle. I still haven't received my results
from the 111 and the other thing.
BTW Chris what does the word "transfer" mean in this context. I am not
anywhere near an expert in the
nuts and bolts of the DNA part of genetics. I would appreciate more
enlightenment on that subject and if
you have eny more recommendations I am liking to receive
them...............................Lannie

Chris McCown wrote:
> Without seeing everyone's family tree's, it's hard for me to know
> which branches we're trying to connect. However, I will never
> discourage someone from taking the 111 marker test unless you're
> trying to pinch pennies. It's always nice to have more participants
> in the project.
>
> My only request is, don't order a kit with less than 37 markers. 67
> is the current standard and all the researchers are trying to move to 111.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Leonard J. McCown wrote:
>

>> *Bill, I think Chris would agree with me that do the test to take

>> your markers on up to 111 or at least part of the way. You might want
>> to wait until they have a sale though. They have done the one for
>> this summer, but usually do one again near Christmas. Not always the
>> best time, because of vacation and Christmas gifts, but probably no

>> good time. I am in 7 surname studies so wait for the sale!*
>> **
>> *Chris, if you think different, speak up please. Leonard*
>> **
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> **
>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>> *leo...@mccown.org <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org*
>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to*
>> *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>> **
>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On
>> Behalf Of*McCown, Bill
>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 1:58 PM
>> *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*Re: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive

>> castles of Ireland map
>> Leonard, I never felt so needed. Which test should I do?

>> *From*: Leonard J. McCown [mailto:leo...@mccown.org]
>> *Sent*: Friday, August 10, 2012 01:07 PM
>> *To*:mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com><mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>>
>> *Subject*: RE: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive
>> castles of Ireland map
>> *Sadly, Mic can only test for the Barnette Y-DNA study. He has

>> researched the McCowns for years, but still does not have the
>> surname. SO, Bill, we need you, and would be nice really to have two
>> test from that line, maybe off different brothers. Just my 2 cents

>> worth. Leonard*
>> **
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> **
>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>> *leo...@mccown.org <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org*
>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to*
>> *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>> **
>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On
>> Behalf Of*McCown, Bill
>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 7:22 AM
>> *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*RE: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive

>> castles of Ireland map
>> Ann, I thought that Mic Barnette had done the DNA profile? If none of
>> the other Col James or Sampson descendants have, then I could be a
>> candidate.

>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On
>> Behalf Of*ANN MCELHANEY
>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 2:22 AM
>> *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*Re: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive

>> *This sure does look interesting. Thought others might also find it
>> so. Leonard*
>> **
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> **
>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>> *leo...@mccown.org
>> <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org
>> <http://www.mccown.org/>*
>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to*
>> *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>> **
>> *From:*Tyrone Bowes Ph.D.[mailto:tyron...@gmail.com]
>> <mailto:[mailto:tyron...@gmail.com]>
>> *Sent:*Thursday, August 09, 2012 5:39 PM
>> *To:*undisclosed-recipients:
>> *Subject:*launch of an interactive castles of Ireland map

>> Dear Sir/Madam,
>> An interactive Castles of Ireland map has been launched on the Irish
>> Origenes website: http://www.irishorigenes.com/irish-castle-locations
>> It features 1,375 castles associated with over 400 Clans and Families.
>> The Irish Origenes website is completely open access and contains all
>> the resources that one will require to pinpoint ones Irish Genetic
>> Homeland using the results of a Y-DNA 37 marker test.
>> Regards
>> Tyrone
>> --
>> Dr Tyrone Bowes
>> mobile: 00 353 872561120

>> www.irishorigenes.com <http://www.irishorigenes.com/>
>> www.scottishorigenes.com <http://www.scottishorigenes.com/>
>> www.englishorigenes.com <http://www.englishorigenes.com/>

>> http://www.facebook.com/IrishOrigenes
>> Tweet: @BowesDr
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>> To post to this group, send email tomc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>.

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>> ANN MCELHANEY

>> annm...@aol.com <mailto:annm...@aol.com>

>> --
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>> ANN MCELHANEY

>> annm...@aol.com <mailto:annm...@aol.com>

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[Chris McCown]

I think that ID theft is a serious problem, and I think your concerns are valid and I respect you not wanting your kit number shared.  Based on my limited knowledge of ID theft, it doesn't involve DNA. It involves financial records and SSNs.  

In the future, will people use DNA signatures as part of identification?  Maybe.   Will people be able to replicate them... maybe.  Seems like that's a ways off and a bit big brotherish for Americans to put up with but I guess it could happen.

Also, I was being facitious( self deprecating humor ) when I said the only reason to not share is if you don't want anyone to know your a McCown.   My sense of humor takes some getting used to I guess.

Maybe Leonard( as admin ) can delete those messages from the thread on the forum.

Chris

[lannie]

I must say that I haven't seen paranoia like that in my lifetime. I was
a computer profesional for 36 years and
worked in intelligence programming for 15 and I just had to laugh when I
saw that security lecture. I wouldn't
worry about deleting that email if it were me. Sheesh!

>> � and it may have been for all I know � does not mean that one should

>> deem it irrelevant. The problem of identity theft, or even identity
>> loss, is a decades long threat.
>> The imminent harm comes from hacking sweeps of many sources that
>> build up identities -- of various states of completion. (I have
>> been able to find email exchanges in which I was a subject of
>> exchanges on forums, or groups groups, by a simple google search, and
>> a hacker has means far more sophisticated than the algorithms that

>> Google lets us use � and Google has recently changed its privacy

>> policy to make all information of users of its services more widely
>> available within its various units.) You have it backwards, Chris.

>> Criminals probably don�t worry excessively about DNA disclosure.

>> Honest people do. Beginning, as we all may have experienced, with

>> unwanted goods ordered in our name. A person�s bank accounts can

>> emptied, or very large loans taken out in their name. Or serious

>> crimes may be committed using someone�s identity as a mask. (And

>> I cannot believe that anyone thinks no innocent man has ever been
>> hanged.) That is why the law restricts the use of personal information.
>> [I believe that there are those in this forum that have had
>> experience in computer security questions.]

>> You are incorrect that �the only reason not to share it is that if
>> you don�t want anyone to know that your related to us McCowns.� My

>> kit has been part of FamilytreeDNA for quite awhile, and I have quite
>> a few matches. I have made the results of my tests available, in
>> some cases on request, to certain forums under the standard
>> conditions that the information was confidential. On the other
>> hand, I have been tracking down papers for over thirty years, and
>> have spent many pleasant hours perusing documents in small
>> courthouses. On the basis of the many dead ends of the paper
>> trails, I believed that it was unlikely that I was connected, within
>> the last couple of centuries, to the McCowns in this forum. That
>> has been known as least twenty years and the DNA only confirmed that
>> conclusion. [Incidentally I have been contacted on a couple of
>> occasions over the years (based on the paper chase) by people that

>> confirmed McCown connections from several generations ago � and we

>> were able to exchange family letters relevant to our respective

>> branches � or perhaps better twigs.]

>> I am not as worried about this forum having the DNA information as
>> with the fact that the information could now well be public. This
>> might be case for the other kit numbers discussed as well. And I
>> certainly do not think the information should go further. [If there
>> were any way to excise the numbers it should probably be done, but I
>> am not sure how to go about it.]

>> Leis gach deagh dh�rachd
>> Ashby

>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On

>> Behalf Of*Chris McCown
>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 4:27 PM
>> *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*Re: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive

>> castles of Ireland map
>> I don't think anyone can steal your identity based on these markers
>> or kit numbers. They only reason to not share it is if you don't
>> want anyone to know that your related to us McCowns.... or if you're
>> some type of criminal that's left a trail of DNA at all your crime
>> scenes. These markers probably wouldn't hold up in court but they
>> might provide a clue as to the ethnicity of the perpetrator.
>> On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:28 PM, Leonard J. McCown wrote:
>>
>>

>> *Thanks Ashby. Hopefully no thieves are amongst us!!! I agree our
>> discussion has been a good one today.*
>> **
>> *I expected a Gaelic curse . . . : )*
>> **
>> *Leonard*

>> **
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> **
>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>> *leo...@mccown.org <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org*
>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to*
>> *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>> **
>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On

>> Behalf Of*Thomas Ashby McCown
>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 2:10 PM
>> *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*RE: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive

>> castles of Ireland map
>> Leonard,
>> A fair number of kit numbers are coming out in this discussion. I
>> hope we are all bound by the deepest oaths of confidentiality. May
>> Saint Comgan strike us all mute (and banned from the internet) if we
>> ever disclose a digit.
>> [Seriously, we all need to be concerned about identity theft.]
>> The conversation, however, is getting very interesting.
>> Ashby

>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On

>> Behalf Of*Leonard J. McCown
>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 3:01 PM
>> *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*RE: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive
>> castles of Ireland map
>> *SORRY, I didn�t intend to reveal Ashby�s kit number. Was not
>> thinking . . . what else is new. Sorry Ashby. Hope you don�t mind.

>> Leonard*
>> **
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> **
>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>> *leo...@mccown.org <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org*
>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to*
>> *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>> **
>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On

>> Behalf Of*Leonard J. McCown
>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 1:30 PM
>> *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*RE: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive
>> castles of Ireland map
>> *That kit is Ashby�s, so probably a different James. I show James

>> Ross McCown as the only one from Alexander. HOWEVER, some members of
>> the group have never posted a family tree chart, so difficult to know

>> how they might fit into the mix. That is an important step too. Leonard*

>> **
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> **
>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>> *leo...@mccown.org <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org*
>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to*
>> *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>> **
>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On

>> Behalf Of*Annmclpc
>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 12:59 PM
>> *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*Re: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive

>> castles of Ireland map
>>
>> Thanks for that McCown DNA page. . some one has James McCown kit
>> #N42581. . .any idea who that might be? Is there anyone on that page
>> who claims Sampson or Col James ?
>>
>> Ann W McElhaney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James McCown <jjjun...@gmail.com <mailto:jjjun...@gmail.com>>
>> To: mccown <mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>>
>> Sent: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 12:41 pm
>> Subject: Re: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive
>> castles of Ireland map
>>
>> Chris, perhaps you and i are thinking of two different Alexanders?
>> When/ where was the man you refer to born?
>> On Aug 10, 2012 12:35 PM, "Chris McCown" <chris...@gmail.com

>> <mailto:chris...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I don't want to give away which kit is Todd's without his permission.
>> All I can say is that no McCown DNA Project member has claimed
>> Alexander as their deepest known McCown ancestor.
>> Chris
>> On Aug 10, 2012, at 1:27 PM, James McCown wrote:
>>
>> Chris, isn't Todd McCune a descendant of that Alexander? His dna is
>> an exact match with the descendants of francis
>> On Aug 10, 2012 10:14 AM, "Chris McCown" <chris...@gmail.com

>> <mailto:chris...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Does Col James descend from Alexander?
>> The current McCown DNA results don't have anyone claiming Alexander
>> as their deepest known ancestor. I sure would be cool to find out if
>> Francis and Alexander were related.
>> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mccown/default.aspx?section=ycolorized
>> Chris
>> On Aug 10, 2012, at 8:22 AM, McCown, Bill wrote:
>>
>> Ann, I thought that Mic Barnette had done the DNA profile? If none of
>> the other Col James or Sampson descendants have, then I could be a
>> candidate.

>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com> [mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com

>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *ANN MCELHANEY
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2012 2:22 AM
>> *To:* mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive

>> *This sure does look interesting. Thought others might also find it
>> so. Leonard*
>> **
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> **
>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>> *leo...@mccown.org <mailto:leo...@mccown.org> --

>> http://www.mccown.org <http://www.mccown.org/>*

>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to*
>> *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>> **

>> *From:* Tyrone Bowes Ph.D. [mailto:tyron...@gmail.com]
>> <mailto:[mailto:tyron...@gmail.com]>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 5:39 PM
>> *To:* undisclosed-recipients:
>> *Subject:* launch of an interactive castles of Ireland map

>> Dear Sir/Madam,
>> An interactive Castles of Ireland map has been launched on the Irish
>> Origenes website: http://www.irishorigenes.com/irish-castle-locations
>> It features 1,375 castles associated with over 400 Clans and Families.
>> The Irish Origenes website is completely open access and contains all
>> the resources that one will require to pinpoint ones Irish Genetic
>> Homeland using the results of a Y-DNA 37 marker test.
>> Regards
>> Tyrone
>> --
>> Dr Tyrone Bowes
>> mobile: 00 353 872561120

>> www.irishorigenes.com <http://www.irishorigenes.com/>
>> www.scottishorigenes.com <http://www.scottishorigenes.com/>
>> www.englishorigenes.com <http://www.englishorigenes.com/>

>> http://www.facebook.com/IrishOrigenes
>> Tweet: @BowesDr
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "McCown Family History" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to mcc...@googlegroups.com

>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>.

>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> mccown+un...@googlegroups.com

>> <mailto:mccown+un...@googlegroups.com>.

>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/mccown?hl=en.
>> ANN MCELHANEY

>> annm...@aol.com <mailto:annm...@aol.com>

>> --
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>> ANN MCELHANEY

>> annm...@aol.com <mailto:annm...@aol.com>

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[Chris McCown]

We should delete it if we can. Paranoid or not, it's our responsibility as admins of the DNA project to protect everyone's privacy.

On Aug 10, 2012, at 9:39 PM, lannie wrote:

> I must say that I haven't seen paranoia like that in my lifetime. I was a computer profesional for 36 years and
> worked in intelligence programming for 15 and I just had to laugh when I saw that security lecture. I wouldn't
> worry about deleting that email if it were me. Sheesh!
>
> Chris McCown wrote:
>> I think that ID theft is a serious problem, and I think your concerns are valid and I respect you not wanting your kit number shared. Based on my limited knowledge of ID theft, it doesn't involve DNA. It involves financial records and SSNs.
>>
>> In the future, will people use DNA signatures as part of identification? Maybe. Will people be able to replicate them... maybe. Seems like that's a ways off and a bit big brotherish for Americans to put up with but I guess it could happen.
>>
>> Also, I was being facitious( self deprecating humor ) when I said the only reason to not share is if you don't want anyone to know your a McCown. My sense of humor takes some getting used to I guess.
>>
>> Maybe Leonard( as admin ) can delete those messages from the thread on the forum.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Aug 10, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Thomas Ashby McCown wrote:
>>
>>> Chris,

>>> That is not correct. Identities are built up using pieces of information. A 67-marker YDNA result is more specific than a great deal of identifying information that we are urged to hold closely. For example, we are advised to make modest use of our birthdays (which some institutions use to confirm the identity of callers), to hold our Social Security numbers closely (and in my youth a person could be issued as many numbers as they liked, and Social Security request for identification was pretty careless), signatures from digital files can nowadays, I am fairly sure, can pass expert examination, and of course the world has been awash in reissued (to the wrong party) birth certificates for decades. There is a reason for the vast amount of money spent on encryption and electronic signatures. Just because you have not seen the data misused to date – and it may have been for all I know – does not mean that one should deem it irrelevant. The problem of identity theft, or even identity loss, is a decades long threat.
>>> The imminent harm comes from hacking sweeps of many sources that build up identities -- of various states of completion. (I have been able to find email exchanges in which I was a subject of exchanges on forums, or groups groups, by a simple google search, and a hacker has means far more sophisticated than the algorithms that Google lets us use – and Google has recently changed its privacy policy to make all information of users of its services more widely available within its various units.) You have it backwards, Chris. Criminals probably don’t worry excessively about DNA disclosure. Honest people do. Beginning, as we all may have experienced, with unwanted goods ordered in our name. A person’s bank accounts can emptied, or very large loans taken out in their name. Or serious crimes may be committed using someone’s identity as a mask. (And I cannot believe that anyone thinks no innocent man has ever been hanged.) That is why the law restricts the use of personal information.

>>> [I believe that there are those in this forum that have had experience in computer security questions.]

>>> You are incorrect that “the only reason not to share it is that if you don’t want anyone to know that your related to us McCowns.” My kit has been part of FamilytreeDNA for quite awhile, and I have quite a few matches. I have made the results of my tests available, in some cases on request, to certain forums under the standard conditions that the information was confidential. On the other hand, I have been tracking down papers for over thirty years, and have spent many pleasant hours perusing documents in small courthouses. On the basis of the many dead ends of the paper trails, I believed that it was unlikely that I was connected, within the last couple of centuries, to the McCowns in this forum. That has been known as least twenty years and the DNA only confirmed that conclusion. [Incidentally I have been contacted on a couple of occasions over the years (based on the paper chase) by people that confirmed McCown connections from several generations ago – and we were able to exchange family letters relevant to our respective branches – or perhaps better twigs.]

>>> I am not as worried about this forum having the DNA information as with the fact that the information could now well be public. This might be case for the other kit numbers discussed as well. And I certainly do not think the information should go further. [If there were any way to excise the numbers it should probably be done, but I am not sure how to go about it.]

>>> Leis gach deagh dhùrachd

>>> *SORRY, I didn’t intend to reveal Ashby’s kit number. Was not thinking . . . what else is new. Sorry Ashby. Hope you don’t mind. Leonard*

>>> **
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> **
>>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>>> *leo...@mccown.org <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org*
>>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to*
>>> *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>>> **
>>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On Behalf Of*Leonard J. McCown
>>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 1:30 PM
>>> *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Subject:*RE: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive castles of Ireland map

>>> *That kit is Ashby’s, so probably a different James. I show James Ross McCown as the only one from Alexander. HOWEVER, some members of the group have never posted a family tree chart, so difficult to know how they might fit into the mix. That is an important step too. Leonard*

[Leonard J. McCown]

Bill,

 

On FamilyTreeDNA.com you can log in to your page there. Put in your kit number and your password. There you can see who you match, etc., and the regular cost, of upgrades. They will also send you an e-mail telling you your new results have been posted.

 

Of course when the new results are posted, you will have to go in and post them yourself to the Y-Search site.

 

If you have any trouble drop me a note (leo...@mccown.org) and we will get it done. Leonard

[lannie]

I agree that I should not broadcast anyone else's information without
their agreement but
he reminded me of my SCOTT administrator. He considers DNA a waste of
time and also
considers it cheating. ALL researchers, he says, should do all of it
the "standard" way. I am
losing patience with with worry about the sky falling , no matter how
remote the possibility.
I do wrap my credid card with the RF transmitter in it in a shielded
place to protect it from
cheap and available online devices that can read my card from 4 feet
away. That, is what I call
a security risk, but not someone seeing my DNA results!

[McCown, Bill]

I don't have a page. Guess I will need to create one. I don't do much on genealogy on the web. Someday when (if) I ever retire, I will need to organize all my documents and trees and start uploading to the net. Really short on time to do much right now except do my oil co work, arrange music for my band and keep my show car in shape. But I am excited now about the DNA thing especially if it can clarify ancestry lineage.

[Leonard J. McCown]

Paper trail, like any other relationship. But we need the research.

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[Leonard J. McCown]

WELL I meant a Gaelic curse if we broke the confidentiality clause!

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[Leonard J. McCown]

It is, but 67 is next best! The goal is to get to 111.

[McCown, Bill]

Then that's the one I will do.

[Chris McCown]

If it makes anyone feel any better, the 111 markers is a micro-percentage of your overall DNA. You have millions upon millions of markers. All of the slow moving 111 STR markers that are used in these studies are what's known as junk DNA and may or may not mutate over 100s or 1000s of years. Junk DNA has no known( or significant ) purpose other that to help us discern who is related. I see it as another tool, just like the census or genealogy records in general. Your descendants will use this data 500 years from now, just like you use the census.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test

[Leonard J. McCown]

Thanks Ashby. I pay annually for LifeLock for my wife and I. Leonard

[Leonard J. McCown]

I went to my Google list and the last thing posted there was that e-mail about the interactive castles of Ireland map. I will watch, and try at least. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Leonard

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

 

[Leonard J. McCown]

Every member has a page Bill, you may have never logged in to see it, but it was created by FTDNA.

 

Go to http://www.familytreedna.com/

 

On that Navy Blue line on the far right is a “Login” that is where your kit number goes and also a password. If you don’t recall it, just write FTDNA and they can send it to you. I don’t know it, or I would tell you.

 

Leonard (leo...@mccown.org)

[McCown, Bill]

I have never done a test so doesn't that mean the page would be set up when I did it?

[Thomas Ashby McCown]

Lannie,

The paranoia probably arises from managing some large financial data bases,
some with national security classification (albeit low), for a dozen years.
[Yes, I have done some coding and I do know a reasonable amount about the
mathematics of information and computer security.] As for the hacking
sweeps, these happen every day. Scams are perpetrated in others names, loans
are arranged on false identification, there are assaults on bank accounts,
etc., from information gathered electronically, mostly over the internet. I
know of many cases in which emails have been hacked and embarrassing
messages sent out in the name of the hacked account. These are quite
normal.

My point was that identifying information should be closely held.
Widespread identification systems (as the Y marker DNA data bases) may not
be involved in identity problems today, but it is information that remains
valid, like social security numbers, for a long period of time. [The Social
Security Act, as passed in the '30s prohibited the use of its numbers to
create a system of national identification.] Bio id data was even used in
my time to control access, in part, to certain secure areas -- retina scans,
fingerprint recognition, and probably many others. [No. These were not my
areas.]

Related questions are the confidentiality of bio information in general.
Insurance companies, for financial gain, and newspapers, for gossip,
actively seek medical records of individuals. Y DNA does not currently
appear to be involved in very much about people, except their sex.
(Although your neighbors, your neighborhood newspapers, your pastor in
search of a sermon and your political opponents might be interested in
"non-paternal" events that might show up.) There are massive efforts to
link statistically genetically-linked diseases to underlying DNA. Again,
insurance companies can be expected to use that information to determine
"pre-existing conditions" and political opponents (in government, business,
or life in general) someone's suitability for office or a job. As I said,
this is not the case with the Y chromosome at this time. However, we are
speaking of identifying items that remain valid forever and we do not know
future scientific connections, any more than we knew to what use social
security numbers would be put when the Social Security Act was first passed.

Leis gach deagh dhùrachd

Ashby

-----Original Message-----
From: mcc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of

>> – and it may have been for all I know – does not mean that one should

>> deem it irrelevant. The problem of identity theft, or even identity
>> loss, is a decades long threat.
>> The imminent harm comes from hacking sweeps of many sources that
>> build up identities -- of various states of completion. (I have
>> been able to find email exchanges in which I was a subject of
>> exchanges on forums, or groups groups, by a simple google search, and
>> a hacker has means far more sophisticated than the algorithms that

>> Google lets us use – and Google has recently changed its privacy

>> policy to make all information of users of its services more widely
>> available within its various units.) You have it backwards, Chris.

>> Criminals probably don’t worry excessively about DNA disclosure.

>> Honest people do. Beginning, as we all may have experienced, with

>> unwanted goods ordered in our name. A person’s bank accounts can

>> emptied, or very large loans taken out in their name. Or serious

>> crimes may be committed using someone’s identity as a mask. (And

>> I cannot believe that anyone thinks no innocent man has ever been
>> hanged.) That is why the law restricts the use of personal information.
>> [I believe that there are those in this forum that have had
>> experience in computer security questions.] You are incorrect that

>> “the only reason not to share it is that if you don’t want anyone to
>> know that your related to us McCowns.” My kit has been part of

>> FamilytreeDNA for quite awhile, and I have quite
>> a few matches. I have made the results of my tests available, in
>> some cases on request, to certain forums under the standard
>> conditions that the information was confidential. On the other
>> hand, I have been tracking down papers for over thirty years, and
>> have spent many pleasant hours perusing documents in small
>> courthouses. On the basis of the many dead ends of the paper
>> trails, I believed that it was unlikely that I was connected, within
>> the last couple of centuries, to the McCowns in this forum. That
>> has been known as least twenty years and the DNA only confirmed that
>> conclusion. [Incidentally I have been contacted on a couple of
>> occasions over the years (based on the paper chase) by people that

>> confirmed McCown connections from several generations ago – and we

>> were able to exchange family letters relevant to our respective

>> branches – or perhaps better twigs.] I am not as worried about this

>> forum having the DNA information as with the fact that the
>> information could now well be public. This
>> might be case for the other kit numbers discussed as well. And I
>> certainly do not think the information should go further. [If there
>> were any way to excise the numbers it should probably be done, but I

>> am not sure how to go about it.] Leis gach deagh dhùrachd Ashby

>> castles of Ireland map *SORRY, I didn’t intend to reveal Ashby’s kit

>> number. Was not thinking . . . what else is new. Sorry Ashby. Hope

>> you don’t mind.
>> Leonard*
>> **
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---

>> **
>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>> *leo...@mccown.org
>> <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org*
>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward
>> to* *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>> **
>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On
>> Behalf Of*Leonard J. McCown
>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 1:30 PM *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*RE: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive

>> castles of Ireland map *That kit is Ashby’s, so probably a different

[WBHI...@aol.com]

I might add that Genealogical DNA isn't admissible in court. It is considered "JUNK" DNA. I recently did the Family Finder from FTDNA and got a spread sheet back with 161 names on it. Lot of them were Scottish Clan names but not a McCowm in the bunch. Hopefully a McCown will also subscribe to Family Finder and I can see where I stand.

bill hinkle

PS: the spread sheet prints out to 3' x 10 ' I am transcribing the names to a notebook where it will be easier to reference the info.

Robertson - Mccown - Dyll

PSS; I really enjoy reading you-all's rants and info e-mails...keep up the great work

[Chris McCown]

You can order here:

http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=McCown

[Chris McCown]

Bill, 

The process works like this....

1) you order the kit here:  http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=McCown

2) FTDNA mails you the kit and you swab your cheeks and then you mail it back

3) When they have some results they email you.

4) you login with the account you created.  You can then see your matches and can compare them to other's who are in projects with you( aka the McCown project ).

5) then, like the rest of us, try to figure out what to do with the information.  There is a lot of wishing more people would test and a lot of hoping someone figures it all out.  It's a contribution to the world's understanding of human migration as much as it is a tool for us to use.  You're contributing to science as a whole.

Chris

On Aug 10, 2012, at 10:33 PM, McCown, Bill wrote:

[McCown, Bill]

Thanks Chris, that spells it out very concisely.

[Chris McCown]

I'll have a couple of things for you to do as steps 6 and 7... but let's get your results first.

[ANN MCELHANEY]

Show car?  Music??  Tell us more about that.  And thank you for doing the testing!!!

ann

[McCown, Bill]

Ann I played with several top 40 groups back in the 60's and then just quit for 40+ years. Last year I got a group of ex players together and we started a group mainly for fun but as you would guess, we started getting requests to play at different venues, recorded a couple of CD's and just keep growing. Lots of interest by baby boomers for 60's-70's music and we kind of fill that need I guess. We mainly play CCR, Jimi Hendrix ttype songs but also Eagles type genre.
I have always built cars as a hobby and my last one, 1940 Ford Coupe, I just kept going on it and it ended up a show car and I make 5-10 shows a year with it. Wasn't my objective, just wound up that way but too old to build any more so I just keep improving the last one. A never ending story!

Not really anything I do that others don't. Some play golf, fish, hunt, sail or fly planes. I love music and cars, that's all.
 

From: ANN MCELHANEY [mailto:annm...@aol.com]

[ANN MCELHANEY]

So I have an interesting story that you all might give me some feedback and direction regarding.  I have a lot of bipolar in my family and I would like to know where that comes from and since it was in my dad's line that could mean his mom or his dad.  I am fairly sure his dad the Warren line and that's all we know about them is the Warren name no others and his mom's line which is the Morgan and joined at that juncture by McCown. . .so does anyone have McCown info on bipolar ancestors.  The typical bipolar then may have been different from now and certainly they are treated differently.  Now we use meds and then they just locked folks up as crazy!  

That's the first part:  The second is that since I have a bipolar daughter who had two kids and didn't know who the father of either was and she couldn't raise them, I do.  Now someday I want these boys to know their complete heritage so I have done the DNA 67 for one and 30 something for the other and of course for both just used my McElhaney name(that probably really throws off the testing of the McElhaney line).  So I have their results but finding any matches is difficult since I do not know the surname they would be attached to.  Any guidance for this mystery would be helpful.  I am not wanting to find dads indeed that would be a problem as I am sure it would not be the kind of dad they would need, I just want to know heritage so I can share with them at some point and if I don't live to their adulthood at least I will have the research for them.  Of course I have the hap group for each one but I am not sure how to use that info.  Now this is definitely among the postings that I would hold in the category of 'confidential'!

ann

[ANN MCELHANEY]

I think that is fantastic!  So how do we hear a CD of your group. . and the name of the group?  And pics of your Ford. . .all of that I would be interested in seeing/hearing.  I love it when folks are creative like that.  

ann

[McCown, Bill]

The group is currently named "Rhino" because we are not very subtle! But, that name is used by a group in California so we will have to change it or be sued. I will get you a CD and here is a pic of the car if it will load on this forum. Hope I am not breaking any rules or offending anyone. It will be at the bottom of this string I think?

[lannie]

Bill,
I have been a music freak all of my life and I played Mandolin in a
bluegrass group consisting
of 3 other engineers at Lockheed. I later played Banjo for a country
group because they couldn't
find a lead guitar player. We were called "Country Critters" and we
rented a venue in Reno,Tx
and charged $3 a head on Sat nite. Played for a couple of years til our
diddle player died of a heart
attack. Then played with a travelling jam session for food and drink at
peoples homes. Haven't played
in 1bout 15 years but have taken up the keyboard. Got a Casio Rivia
PX-575R, but only play with the
built in "band and rhythm" and use the one finger chords:-) . I never
came near being professional
level but I sure had a lot of fun. I play my keyboard only for my own
amusement. I would have liked to
have been gifted like many I have senn but fate just didn't smile on me
that way but she has given
me a long life, kept me alive during WWII and the Korean war, kept me in
one piece long enough to
bug Leonard on this forum :-) ....................................Lannie

McCown, Bill wrote:
> Ann I played with several top 40 groups back in the 60's and then just
> quit for 40+ years. Last year I got a group of ex players together and
> we started a group mainly for fun but as you would guess, we started
> getting requests to play at different venues, recorded a couple of
> CD's and just keep growing. Lots of interest by baby boomers for
> 60's-70's music and we kind of fill that need I guess. We mainly play
> CCR, Jimi Hendrix ttype songs but also Eagles type genre.
> I have always built cars as a hobby and my last one, 1940 Ford Coupe,
> I just kept going on it and it ended up a show car and I make 5-10
> shows a year with it. Wasn't my objective, just wound up that way but
> too old to build any more so I just keep improving the last one. A
> never ending story!
>
> Not really anything I do that others don't. Some play golf, fish,
> hunt, sail or fly planes. I love music and cars, that's all.
>

> *From*: ANN MCELHANEY [mailto:annm...@aol.com]
> *Sent*: Friday, August 10, 2012 10:42 PM
> *To*: mcc...@googlegroups.com <mcc...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject*: Re: [McCown Family History]

[lannie]

Chris,
I finally went back to the FTDNA web site for the first time in a
couple of years
and went through a mindbending manual on the site. It did clear up some
things for me
about those terms that you were giving me. On the Surname page, I didn't
understand
that FTDNA had done the SNP thing on me. I don't remember ordering it
and I am a little
confused by that. I believe that you have been studying that stuff for a
while. It will sure take me
a while to understand all the terminology about the, I guess, physiology
of the DNA construction
and all the ways it can mutate. Sure glad I ran into you on this forum.
When I joined the DNA
group, all that I was searching for were the names of my Samuel Walker's
ancestors as far
back as I could go. I never thought of or realized that the science had
figured out all of the
known mutation processes that are in that document, but I am glad that
they have.
Anyway, thanks again and I may be asking you more question if you
don't mind.
Lannie

Chris McCown wrote:
> I'll have a couple of things for you to do as steps 6 and 7... but
> let's get your results first.
>
>
> On Aug 10, 2012, at 11:10 PM, McCown, Bill wrote:
>
>> Thanks Chris, that spells it out very concisely.
>>

>> *From*: Chris McCown [mailto:chris...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent*: Friday, August 10, 2012 09:54 PM
>> *To*: mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>> <mcc...@googlegroups.com <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>>
>> *Subject*: Re: [McCown Family History]

[lannie]

I apologize Ashby, I just lost my cool. I'm not really like that most of
the time.

> Leis gach deagh dh�rachd

>>> � and it may have been for all I know � does not mean that one should

>>> deem it irrelevant. The problem of identity theft, or even identity
>>> loss, is a decades long threat.
>>> The imminent harm comes from hacking sweeps of many sources that
>>> build up identities -- of various states of completion. (I have
>>> been able to find email exchanges in which I was a subject of
>>> exchanges on forums, or groups groups, by a simple google search, and
>>> a hacker has means far more sophisticated than the algorithms that

>>> Google lets us use � and Google has recently changed its privacy

>>> policy to make all information of users of its services more widely
>>> available within its various units.) You have it backwards, Chris.

>>> Criminals probably don�t worry excessively about DNA disclosure.

>>> Honest people do. Beginning, as we all may have experienced, with

>>> unwanted goods ordered in our name. A person�s bank accounts can

>>> emptied, or very large loans taken out in their name. Or serious

>>> crimes may be committed using someone�s identity as a mask. (And

>>> I cannot believe that anyone thinks no innocent man has ever been
>>> hanged.) That is why the law restricts the use of personal information.
>>> [I believe that there are those in this forum that have had
>>> experience in computer security questions.] You are incorrect that

>>> �the only reason not to share it is that if you don�t want anyone to
>>> know that your related to us McCowns.� My kit has been part of

>>> FamilytreeDNA for quite awhile, and I have quite
>>> a few matches. I have made the results of my tests available, in
>>> some cases on request, to certain forums under the standard
>>> conditions that the information was confidential. On the other
>>> hand, I have been tracking down papers for over thirty years, and
>>> have spent many pleasant hours perusing documents in small
>>> courthouses. On the basis of the many dead ends of the paper
>>> trails, I believed that it was unlikely that I was connected, within
>>> the last couple of centuries, to the McCowns in this forum. That
>>> has been known as least twenty years and the DNA only confirmed that
>>> conclusion. [Incidentally I have been contacted on a couple of
>>> occasions over the years (based on the paper chase) by people that

>>> confirmed McCown connections from several generations ago � and we

>>> were able to exchange family letters relevant to our respective

>>> branches � or perhaps better twigs.] I am not as worried about this

>>> forum having the DNA information as with the fact that the
>>> information could now well be public. This
>>> might be case for the other kit numbers discussed as well. And I
>>> certainly do not think the information should go further. [If there
>>> were any way to excise the numbers it should probably be done, but I

>>> am not sure how to go about it.] Leis gach deagh dh�rachd Ashby

>>> castles of Ireland map *SORRY, I didn�t intend to reveal Ashby�s kit

>>> number. Was not thinking . . . what else is new. Sorry Ashby. Hope

>>> you don�t mind.

>>> Leonard*
>>> **
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---
>>> **
>>> *Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History*
>>> *leo...@mccown.org
>>> <mailto:leo...@mccown.org>--http://www.mccown.org*
>>> *People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward
>>> to* *their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790*
>>> **
>>> *From:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>[mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com]*On
>>> Behalf Of*Leonard J. McCown
>>> *Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2012 1:30 PM *To:*mcc...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Subject:*RE: [McCown Family History] FW: launch of an interactive

>>> castles of Ireland map *That kit is Ashby�s, so probably a different

[Chris McCown]

I don't have any bi-polars( that I know of ) in my family.  However, 23andMe.com looks into the medical aspect of DNA testing if you want to try and locate the genes responsible and asses the risk.

https://www.23andme.com/health/Bipolar-Disorder/

[Chris McCown]

Lannie, 

Ask away.   You can think of SNPs as the nodes where branches split on a tree... 

You tested positive for P310.  That's the SNP I recommended for you to verify for $29.   I saved you $110 to get the same result you'd get from a Deep Clade test.  

Now you can join your haplotype project below and try to find your next undiscovered deepest SNP.  New ones are being uncovered all the time.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/default.aspx

The project admin may give you some guff about not testing negative for P312 or U106 before joining the project, but just tell him you have Walker matches who have.

Chris

[Leonard J. McCown]

Beautiful car!

[Leonard J. McCown]

Lannie, plus you failed to add, do a lot of family research, and some great
computer work! I didn't know you were musically talented! Leonard

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History
leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org
People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to
their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790

-----Original Message-----
From: mcc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mcc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
lannie
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:45 PM
To: mcc...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [McCown Family History]

[Leonard J. McCown]

That is great Bill.

[McCown, Bill]

Lannie,
Impressive. Sounds like you were mor accomplished than you are admitting. I actually enjoy all forms of music but I am not especially creative with it. I wish I had been more into learning the intracacies of music. I am a percussionist and although I seem toi be able to arrange for the overall group sound, I don't feel like I know enough about harmonies etc. My dad was a pro for years and played/sang with Ray Anthony's band and Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey in the 40's and then started his own band in the 50's.

----- Original Message -----
From: lannie [mailto:lan...@swbell.net]
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:45 PM
To: mcc...@googlegroups.com <mcc...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [McCown Family History]

[McCown, Bill]

Thanks Leonard

[Leonard J. McCown]

Ann, so far I have not found any of that in our line and I am thankful. I have friends who are bipolar and know it makes life difficult. You are to be admired to raising your grandchildren and trying to learn their heritage in my opinion. Leonard

 

---

 

Leonard J. McCown, Irving, Texas -- McCown Family History

leo...@mccown.org -- http://www.mccown.org

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to

their ancestors. -- Edmund Burke, 1790