Rig builder

[mikael persson]

Hello list,

I am curious to hear what you people out there use for rig building? Being a lone freelancer I need to sort out all these things on my own.

So far I've been using Hamish's CST

http://www.macaronikazoo.com/ 

I love how modular it is! But I always seem to bump into small bugs that keeps me from using it. If I could get it working properly it would be my first choice. Sadly I'm forced to look elsewhere. Hence my mail.

I know of TSM but the price tag has kept me from trying it out. I've seen all the different ones over at creativecrash, but I'd prefer to have recommendations before I dive in and learn a new tool.

Please do chime in!

Mikael

[David Shaw]

Hey,

What bugs you been having with CST? I've used it for years, maybe we can figure out the bugs for you.

There are others as well such as:

http://nilouco.blogspot.com.au/2011/10/dpautorigsystem-v-20.html

PKD http://pritishdogra.com/Downloads/PKD-Rig-System.html

I am biased though, having worked with Hamish when he wrote CST I am used to the way it works and can modify things to my own needs.

Dave

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[matt estela]

On Tuesday, 28 August 2012, mikael persson wrote:

I know of TSM but the price tag has kept me from trying it out. 

Price tag? $99? Really? If you do more than 2 characters in a year, it's paid for itself. You also get very good support from Raf and his team (or did when I used it a few years ago). 

You can download a few finished rigs from his site, see if the end result suits your workflow. In terms of setup, we always found it easy to use, and the idea if using nurbs shapes as both the binding geo and as quick local shape adjust quite elegant and clever. 

I'd recommend tsm if you don't have access to a dedicated rigger. I know there's been several options available since I used it, but I've drifted away from the generalist role and haven't kept up with the scene. 

[Carlos Rico 3D]

Bipeds:

abAutoRig
http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/c/abautorig

Automated "Animator Friendly Rigging"
http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/c/automated-animator-friendly-rigging

Quadruped:

Quadruped Rigger:
http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/animation/c/quadruped-rigger-automated-rigging-for-four-legged-characters--2

2012/8/28 David Shaw <flop...@gmail.com>

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Carlos Rico Adega
Maya Generalist
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LinkedIn
carlos....@gmail.com

[saber jlassi]

what about Gears for maya 

http://jeremiepasserin.com/blog/index.php?post/2011/07/13/MGear-beta-1

Cheers

Saber

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[Milos Vukotic]

Ugh...I wish we 3D artists would have ONE BLOODY COMPLETE APPLICATION, that contains all we need to do the damn work. Or at 2 applications, I could understand that...but we have to use tons of apps to be able to make a buggy incorrect version of what we want...Maya, Zbrush, Plugin for rigging, plugin for realistic liquid simulations, plugin for animation, etc etc... on top of it all many things don't work and you have to use workarounds for workarounds of workarounds for some things until you completely SNAAAP!

Unfortunately today you have to be a PROGRAMMER, APPLICATION MANAGER, AND 3D ARTIST in order to be 3D artist :( Sometimes you even have to be a hardware specialist.

That is why I, ladies and gentleman, am on the brink of quitting CG. Don't get discouraged, if you like it and if it suits to your lifestyle, great! keep it up! but topics like these just remind me of how I'm always secretly thinking of quitting CG once and for all, at the back of my head.

[mikael persson]

Hi!

yes, I'm partial too. I much prefer to get it working to finding something else.

One of the problems with these bugs is that I am using different versions to see which one has the least amount of problems. The later versions which include the Toolbox and the skeletonbuilder has their own issues that weren't there when it was just the zooCST window. I am really trying to get CST working as I am not familiar with the skeletonbuilder, besides right now I can't even start that as I get a python error:

# Error: AttributeError: file D:/mikael/Documents/maya/2013-x64/scripts\zooPyMaya\skeletonBuilderUI.py line 278: 'module' object has no attribute 'LOCAL'

This latest version has issues with the arm creation. 

* The pole vectors for the arms are not created.

* The IK hand/arm controls are not aligned with the joint orientations.

* It can't find the mirror bone: Cannot find procedure "zooMatchHasParity"

This works in previous versions.

I can't create both legs at the same time, if I try I get this:

// Error: file: D:/mikael/Documents/maya/2013-x64/scripts/zooMel/CST/zooCSTBuildPrimHaunch.mel line 108: Handle must be valid and use rotate plane solver

Although it does work creating them individually.

As I will be needing detailed finger control I've been looking into getting away from the simplified sliders that gets created. The tickbox write sliders does nothing. If the write sliders would work, would there be individual controls for each finger joint?

Instead I will be creating my own controls here using the Create Control tool.

After seeing this I had a look to see if someone had created a finger spread function for CST and I found that djx had his own branch of the project with this functionality included. I've found that his release is quite stable.

Most of the time the additional flags does not work as expected. For instance turning off the triggers does nothing.

//End brain dump.

Did you have the stamina to read through it all? Sorry if it's not that coherent as I'm trying to sort out and try things while going ahead.

Mikael

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[mikael persson]

Yeah, I know it's cheap! It's just that I haven't really liked the rigs that it produces. They are overly complicated for my needs, game animation. Maybe I should give it another go?

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[mikael persson]

Yeah, I know TSM cheap! It's just that I haven't really liked the rigs that it produces. They are overly complicated for my needs, game animation. Maybe I should give it another go?

I've been using 3DS Max for such a long time otherwise and I love the character studio rig. It's very rigid but oh so solid.

Mikael

On 28 August 2012 12:01, matt estela <ma...@tokeru.com> wrote:

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[Phinnaeus OConnor]

TSM2 for me all the way too, well worth the money, the interactive skinning now works really sweet in Maya 2013.

Fully rigged and skinned character in a couple of hours, what's not to like!

Phin

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From: mikael persson <he...@mikaelpersson.se>
To: maya...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2012, 11:15
Subject: Re: [maya_he3d] Rig builder

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[mikael persson]

Thanks for your input guys! Is it possible to dumb TSM down a bit? To get rid of all the stretchy joints etc?

I am so used to painting the weights myself, I have so much control! I did not find that when I tried TSM some time ago. But maybe it's different in 2013? Did you guys use to paint the weights on your own too and have found that the TSM way is faster?

Mikael

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[Janak Thakker]

I've been using Advanced Skeleton for some time now and have to say that I prefer it to any other autoriggers/rigging scripts I've come across. Freeware or commercial. It's got a solid set of tools building all kinds of rigs. You can even build your own rig and apply all the goodness Oyvind has come up with. Only downside is that documentation/support is a bit meh but there's some video tutorial on Facebook of all places.

http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/animation/c/advancedskeleton?os=windows&software_version=2009 

Just as Phinnaeus said about TSM2 this also applies to Advanced Skeleton: "Fully rigged and skinned character in a couple of hours, what's not to like!" =-)

Cheers,

Janak

2012/8/28 Phinnaeus OConnor <phin...@yahoo.com>

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janak thakker | web: http://www.fatlittleindianboy.com/
cell (SWE): +46(0)733 900 984

[Jason Brummett - gmail]

TSM is a great auto rigger.. haven't used it in a while but made simple to complex rigs with it, in the past...

Sent from my Virgin Mobile Android-Powered Device

[stephenkmann]

have you tried the Human Ik stuff?

 i dont use it that often, as I do want stretch joints and special controls most of the time, but for basic humans, with some

really nice controls it works really well. especially now you can heat weight map, or use interactive weighting.

 generally I shut off all the reach stuff, except for the foot rig.

 and for what its worth, I just rig, I like tools over auto rigs. And i find a  lot of these autorigs are just using nodes that already exist in maya. 

hth

-=s

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stephe...@gmail.com
http://smannimation.blogspot.com/
http://nymayausersgroup.blogspot.com/
http://smann3d.blogspot.com/

[mikael persson]

I think my main problem is that once I get a bit of spare time I don't really want to sit down and try out a new rig tool. I rather go with what I know (old man?).

How is the IK/FK switching in humanIK? Is it as solid as in Motionbuilder? Do you need to manage two graph curves for every attribute just like in MB?

When it's simple smaller projects I much prefer to animate directly on the bones or minimal IKs too. But this time I needed to go down the full rig route.

Thanks for the tip about AdvancedSkeleton Janak, I'll try it out!

Mikael

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[stephenkmann]

I don't know much about the motion builder rig,but you do have some options for "which type of rig" you want. either based on CAT or HIK , but I think most people choose HIK. 

 

I would def recommend checking it out. but most people try it out, and pull the arm and watch the body pull, and instantly shy away.. I know I did.. and then I turned all that off.  :)

-=s

[a a]

If maya devs play their cards right with human ik at some point in the near future we will have that sort of unified rig system in maya that is closely tied to mocap. I think the userbase is ready for that.

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[mikael persson]

Hello again,

I've ironed out most of the issues now. One of the stranger things were as noted yesterday that the pole vector constraints weren't created. But I found some nodes that were hidden that works exactly as expected. Maybe they weren't getting displayed after their creation?

The one remaining issue is a gimbal flip on the right wrist. The rotation values on the IK and FK controllers are fine but the transmitted rotation value to the joint is off by 360 degrees. It works properly on the left hand side!

I can of course get rid of this by doing a euler filter after the bake. But it stops my twist joint from working properly.

The orient constraint on the wrist joint has a few different interpolation types that I thought would help if I'd changed them. But they do nothing.

Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated!

Mikael

On 28 August 2012 11:28, David Shaw <flop...@gmail.com> wrote:

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