Boycott Autodesk - Maya
Jason Brummett
Somehow Autodesk needs to reverse it's policy's and the only way I can think of is to globally stop using there software and take the effort to look at other work flows.
I've been a MAX user since 3DS studio 4, AutoCAD R9, Maya R4. So I've personally dumped a huge amount of my personal time and money into Autodesk products but feel like enough is enough.
I won't be upgrading after this release. I'm not on subscription so I will personally be using what I have but am actively looking at other software packages to migrate to.
This isn't ment to be a flame war. It's simply bad business from Autodesk IMO and I think it's time for the users to make a real stance and look elsewhere.
Thanks for your time,
Jason Brummett
Steve Davy
I certainly agree that the removal of batch rendering capabilities with anything like a decent renderer (and of course Maya's software renderer isn't one) goes against what has been protocol for at least as long as I've been doing this, which is about 18 years. What next? Making animation or modeling tools "extra"?
IMHO Maya has been going downhill ever since Autodesk bought it. Bring back Alias Wavefront!
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 9:49 AM
To: maya...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [maya_he3d] Boycott Autodesk - Maya
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Matt Morris
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Steve Davy
On other 2017 related issues, I'm experiencing consistent crashing if I try to set Files/Projects to show the OS native browser window instead of the Maya one. I'm on Windows 7 with my skin set to classic. Is anyone else having similar problems? After setting the browser to be OS native, the crash occurs the moment I try to open a file, sometimes before the browser even opens, other times the browser will open but then Maya will crash the second I click into the window.
And, I'm also finding anything MASH related to be incredibly unstable, also causing a lot of sudden crashing.
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 11:03 AM
To: maya...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [maya_he3d] Boycott Autodesk - Maya
Deke Kincaid
--
Steve Davy
Just because every large corporation is pursuing the same locked-in business model, does that make it ethical or consumer-friendly?
There was a time when not so long ago when if you bought software, you owned it. Now every large software vendor seems to have decided that we're only licensing it.
It may not be criminal but that's just because corporations run the country anyway. It certainly isn't particularly good for us.
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 2:48 PM
matt estela
Gary Jaeger
saber jlassi
Steve Davy
Is it really a viable replacement for Maya across the board?
I've always understood it's great for effects work. But what about bread and butter modeling, print work etc?
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 3:08 PM
perfect timing…
Gary Jaeger / 650.728.7957 direct / 415.518.1419 mobile
On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:06 PM, matt estela <ma...@tokeru.com> wrote:
Time to post this again...
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Gary Jaeger
Carlos Cidrais
Jason Brummett
Steve Davy
MASH is potentially awesome, and I've recently upgraded to 2017 only because of it. Was sticking with 2015 because of the shitty new UI, but you can only hold out for so long.
However, I am finding Maya 2017 to be ridiculously unstable and buggy, with crashes up the wazoo on a brand new machine with a brand new Maya install and clean prefs. Not impressed so far.
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 3:28 PM
On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Steve Davy <stevi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Is it really a viable replacement for Maya across the board?
Gary Jaeger
Steve Davy
Well, I wouldn't feel bad. If a company builds a large and loyal user base selling a complex product that people invest a lot of time and money into learning and building businesses around, then unilaterally decides to remove a key component of that product without warning and without offering any alternative, it's asking for trouble. If I hadn't already switched from MR to Vray a few years ago, I'd be calling it criminal too.
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 3:34 PM
Steve Davy
I wasn't aware of that (having sat 2016 out) and will look into it. Thanks for the tip.
Jason Brummett
I wasn't aware of that (having sat 2016 out) and will look into it. Thanks for the tip.
From: maya...@googlegroups.com <maya...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Gary Jaeger <ga...@corestudio.com>
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 3:41 PM
To: maya...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [maya_he3d] Boycott Autodesk - Maya
can you run 2016.5? It’s less of a departure and has MASH as well
Gary Jaeger / 650.728.7957 direct / 415.518.1419 mobile
On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:36 PM, Steve Davy <stevi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
MASH is potentially awesome, and I've recently upgraded to 2017 only because of it. Was sticking with 2015 because of the shitty new UI, but you can only hold out for so long.
However, I am finding Maya 2017 to be ridiculously unstable and buggy, with crashes up the wazoo on a brand new machine with a brand new Maya install and clean prefs. Not impressed so far.
From: maya_he3d@googlegroups.com <maya_he3d@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Gary Jaeger <ga...@corestudio.com>
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 3:28 PM
To: maya...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [maya_he3d] Boycott Autodesk - Maya
Not sure. We’re actually not trying to replace Maya per se, just adding capabilities. But I’d wager closer than you think if you were looking for a replacement. I still like Maya, and we use v-ray so we’re not running away any time soon. But having done some heavier sim stuff we just had to give it a go. I think MASH is the shit, for what it’s worth.--
Gary Jaeger / 650.728.7957 direct / 415.518.1419 mobile
On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Steve Davy <stevi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Is it really a viable replacement for Maya across the board?
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matt estela
I've witnessed it leak out of the fx department at work and get picked up by modelling, surfacing, lighting, and most recently matte painting. The vfx wing at work, which are traditionally multi skilled generalist maya rockstars, have mostly moved over to Houdini, they all seem pretty happy.
Tim Leydecker
I would like to suggest Redshift3D as a rendering option for Maya
(and Houdini, Softimage, 3DsMax,...)
At the moment, I´m not subscribed to Redshift3D updates due to
work having kept me from dabbling with stuff at home
but when installing Maya 2017 and the MtoA for Maya 2017 edition,
I had also expected to get a "full" Arnold license along
with Maya 2017, not something not clearly advertised as a
"interactive session teaser". I get a Redshift update as soon as
my current project is over. I really like the Redshift guys for
their way of doing things and having the option to run Redshift
in Houdini Indie (in the future or already?) justifies the
expenses even more, letting me learn things for future job
opportunities
In my opinion it would have been a better marketing decision to
bundle at least a node-locked Arnold license with Maya 2017,
capable of serving Arnold to at least the last 3 Maya versions, if
only to help people transition to Arnold, e.g. you get Arnold
with Maya 2017 but you can still run Maya 2016.5 or even Maya 2015
for the time being and already get hands on with Arnold.
Or when you transfer your Maya 2016.5 project to Arnold, because
Maya 2017 will bitch like hell when it finds now obsolete mental
ray nodes...
There could have been a many nicer, more supportive ways of easing
the transition and introducing Maya folks to Arnold rendering.
I can also vividly rememember the countless hours I´ve spent
trying to make mR in Maya or Softimage work, I don´t miss mental
ray
the way it was in Maya or Softimage at all. mental ray felt
neglected and always a step behind in whatever had actually been
developed.
Those mental ray experiences have nothing to do with what Nvidia
has done with iRay and *.mdl descriptions.
In Substance Painter for example, GPU rendering with "mental ray"
is fast, painless and looks pretty. Very pretty.
Afaik, nVidia is still developing a "mental ray for Maya" option
that is available as a beta. I am subscribed but again, work came
in the way...
For general alternatives to Maya, a few of my former collegues
sneak over to Cinema4D whenever they have the chance, often even
using "universal" Arnold licenses (bought when Arnold was not yet
part of the Autodesk family) render out stuff directly instead of
first piping stuff back into Maya just to hit render.
That´s the benefit of having a "full" Arnold license, one license
can serve any of the existing plugins, not just Maya.
I did really expected to get such a "full" license with Maya 2017,
excuse my naivety. I can´t excuse my frustration, too.
Cheers,
tim
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Anthony Rosbottom
I'm perpetually surprised that people on this list don't look into Blender more.
I have to use Max at work but for personal work, I dropped Maya years ago for Blender and never missed any maya functionality (quite the opposite).
A lot of people on this list (well the active minority anyway) seem to love Linux and love dabbling in source code and scripts, so they would feel at home with Blender.
Blender is also developed at a ferocious pace. It's very hard to keep up with the new features that get added. I know new features can suffer from not being maintained enough to be stable but the coders are usually just an email or irc chat away and have been known to fix bugs in minutes (not months or years like AD).
Yeah the interface is different but I can say as someone who used maya since version 2.5, it is learnable and dare-I-say-it, way easier to pick up than something like zbrush.
For rendering I stick with cycles (blender's native raytracer) but there are pipes to vray, renderman, octane and I think redshift.
Anyway, yes I am a blender fan boy but just reminding people it's out there and that just because it's 'free' (in money, not learning time), doesn't necessarily mean it's inferior to the rest of the field.
matt estela
--
Keith Rogers
Maybe we change the name of this group.
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matt estela
Keith Rogers
Haha.
Keith Rogers
Horses for courses. I've been in a relationship with Maya for a while and like all relationships it has its ups and downs. While it's nice to window shop and date other software maya is my wife and I love her. The subscription thing aside the auto desk guys have actually been busting a gut to fix and make maya a player again and personally I think it's working. Bifrost is a brilliant addition. Adding mash was a godsend and great fun to play with. The maya moans forum seems to work and they listen. I liked this group for answering questions of a creative and technical nature. We work in an industry that is governed by the software the company supplies and we have to live with that. We all need help sometimes and saying switch software is not useful.
matt estela
non-trivial amount of time), it's taken me around the world, paid for
my mortgage, put my kids through school, I can't hold too much of a
grudge.
That said, it seems silly to tie yourself to one app. People were
happy to let Painter and Photoshop co-exist, realise they had
different strengths. Modelling software has a similar healthy
competition, each app getting a reputation for having certain
strengths (Zbrush vs Mudbox vs 3dcoat vs Sculptris etc), but
generalist 3d apps have always involved a level of dogmatism that I've
never really understood. Yes they're big complex beasts, and
relearning tools is daunting, but on the flipside each new app you
pickup takes less time, as the knowledge you accrue pays off in
recognising similar workflows or methodologies down the line.
There's also a painful lesson to learn from the Softimage crew; belief
in one app to to rule them all doesn't count for much if it gets
discontinued.
Anyway, I'm not for bashing this or that, and I definitely wouldn't
expect everyone to jump ship just cos of my worthless opinion. I
_would_ suggest doing some research. Pretty much everyone now has a
free learning edition you can download, C4D, Houdini, Blender, Modo,
all great apps with interesting ideas. If nothing else, dabble in
something else for a little bit, find a feature you like, report it
back to Autodesk as inspiration for a future version of Maya. :)
-matt
PS: just occurred to me to write down all the 3d apps i've learned (or
at least touched) over the years in rough chronological order, it's a
worryingly large list, clearly I have some kind of 3D A.D.D. (A3DD?)
3ddos -> lightwave -> 3dmax -> softimage -> animation master -> nendo
-> zbrush -> maya -> wings3d -> rhino -> xsi -> c4d -> houdini ->
blender -> unreal
Keith Rogers
You're right Matt and I'm not so pro Maya that I can't tolerate other software. I love it all and every piece of software continues to amaze me. It mostly comes down to time to learn vs having a life etc. (life v work balance). I like this group as an extended studio and having the option to reference other people's experiences is invaluable. No malice intended but maybe I've got the groups intentions wrong. Ask my wife, I have been wrong many, many, times.
bobrobertuma
My first animations were done using Quarts in 3ds4, Biped I think still uses quaternion rots over Eulers. But did my first real paying character anim for video using LifeForms from Credo, remember that app? Was amazed to see it's still alive :) http://charactermotion.com/products/other.html
-----Original Message-----
From: maya...@googlegroups.com [mailto:maya...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of matt estela
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 6:09 AM
To: maya...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [maya_he3d] Boycott Autodesk - Maya
matt estela
(its Nendo btw) but I remembered its bigger brother Mirai. Amazed to
see that website is still up, even though I'm sure Mirai has been dead
for years. My half-remembered version of events is that it was owned
by a japanese company, but the coders and staff bought it back, but a
check on linkedin makes it seem that even the folk behind the buy-back
have moved on.
http://www.izware.com/
Such a shame, it always looked amazing, but I never got the chance to try it.
José Miguel Aragüés
I mean, even dropbox have problems with that! O_o
Billy Koak
Alexandre Pillon
yah. I'm really curious how that's going to work for "subscription base" at some post production studios.I have worked in 4-6 studios. Where there no internet on any workstations because of Marvel and Disney and etc. the whole NDA. There only one station at the building where producer log in drop the file one server to another server just to upload to the client.
--
José Miguel Aragüés
time limited license hosted on a local server and renewed every year <- And how is that done exactly if your computer is not conected to the internet?
Alexandre Pillon
joie
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