Greetings and some advice please!

[RichG]

Hi Rick

Firstly, as a new rifle shooter, thanks for your considerable effort in putting this blog and webpage together. It has been really helpful to me and answered lots of questions.

I have an M03 pure in 6.5x55 with the 60cm barrel. I've threaded it and got a Hauksen silencer. It seems pretty accurate to me as a novice shooting groups between .3 and .8 MOA with factory ammo. In South Africa there isn't a lot of ammo choice in the calibre but it really likes S+B SP 140gr and Norma Oryx 156gr. Federal and Hornady SST's it seems not to like that much. I am working up a load for the 143 ELDX which seems to have a sweet spot at around 2650 fps. Seems very accurate, even in my hands!

I heard last week Mauser are discontinuing the M03 which is a pity and are taking last orders until the end of August. I am keen to buy a few barrels and would appreciate any advice. I have a 9.3x62 in M12 so catered for there with a bushveld rifle. I was thinking of adding 223 and 308 both in 60cm. Any views, opinions or personal experience would be super helpful. I'm very conscious this isn't a need its a "want"! Use would be a mixture of plains game up to 2-350m, bush veld and plinking. Other considerations are that I would be hunting with my daughter, the availability of cheap and excellent factory ammo (hence no 7x57 or 7x64) (good availability in 223, 243 and 30-06, 308), a good mix of calibers.

Many thanks in advance and look forward to hearing about your preferences.

Kind regards

Rich

[Rick - Mauser M03 Blog author]

Hi Rich.

Thanks for your post to this forum and for your kind words. It's been lots of fun working on it.

Congratulations on your ownership of what is a wonderful rifle, soon to be a rifle system! :-)

I'll send in a fullsome response tomorrow after the sun comes back up. In the meantime, for better understanding, can I ask the age or size of your daughter please? I'm wondering about her experience with recoil and how well she can hold up what is not the lightest hunting rifle around. My own daughter is now 19 but when she was 9 she thought she was a crack shot, after getting a rabbit with her first ever pull of a trigger, at 200m. I think the 12 power scope on a heavy barreled 17 Remington, sitting on sandbags, made it easy. I've never handed her my 30-06. Her older brother told her about how it nearly put him on his backside. I did tell him to lean forward a bit ...

Anyway, watch for my next reply, tomorrow. :-)

Regards, Rick.

[RichG]

Thanks Rick

Appreciate the prompt response and advice.

She is 16 but hasn’t fired a rifle before and I would prefer an easy intro for her rather than a winchester eyebrow first time out :-)

I'm also conscious of the end of the M03 production line so thought it may be a good time to stock up! One of the peculiar south african laws is that each separate barrel needs a separate gun licence which makes it all a bit of a performance…Same process as getting an individual firearm licence..

Kind regards

Richard

[Rick - Mauser M03 Blog author]

Hi Richard.

Right’o. 16. Thanks for this background. I think you’re right about being careful. Getting a fright early on would be hard to forget.

My first bit of advice, if I can call it that, is, work very hard on ensuring her ears are completely protected, even with smaller calibers. My experience is that hearing damage can be instant and permanent. So, high rating foam earplugs and top quality earmuffs. They don’t need to be electronic ones, with fancy shot cancelling features (though they are very nice). It’s the SPL rating that matters. And the fit.

I’ve been thinking about the question of which calibers, in the light of your initial ideas. Let me have another sleep on it. With time zones, I think that will mean you’ll see the email notification with my suggestions when you look at your smartphone first thing in the morning, still dark at 6am. Being able to go hunting with quality Mausers makes cold winter mornings an absolute treat. :-)

Regards, Rick.

[RichG]

Cheers Rick

`Thats pretty much aligned with me. I thought if I got the 223 threaded and suppressed it would make an easy start. I guess my only thoughts about alternatives would be to go 243 as opposed to 223 (more versatile small game calibre?) and pretty mild suppressed and perhaps something like 338. But then Id have two calibers at 6 and 6.5 and two at  8,6 and 9,3. Choices choices, may have to get another M03 action -) and then we could hunt bigger and smaller stuff together!

[Rick - Mauser M03 Blog author]

Hello Richard. Good morning. :-)

I'll just do a quick stock-take of my understanding of your Mauser situation. Firstly there's an M03 Pure with a 6.5x55 barrel that's lucky enough to call your house its home. And it has a Mauser M12 buddy in 9.3x62. What a great combination to start with. :-) With one or two loads worked up for each these, everything from rabbits to buffalo is possible. Choosing scopes to cover such a variety of critters could be a challenge though, particularly if longer range shooting with the 6.5 is intended.

While your daughter could make a start with the 6.5, there's no doubt a .223 Remington would be more comfortable for her. She would most likely shoot better groups with it, or hit more water filled balloons at 50 metres (always fun for beginners!) and this would make her think, 'I can do this.' :-)

A thought is, young folk are not always going to have the same interest in going out hunting as us oldies. When I first took them out with me, my children much preferred to spend a cold but sunny winter's afternoon set up nicely on a tarp, lining up one rabbit after another, hitting more than missing and eating plenty of home made fruit cake with hot chocolate while waiting for the next rabbit to come out. The times I took them on multi-kilometre hikes, up and down undulating terrain, looking for elusive pigs, possibly in persistent rain, ... well, they didn't leap at the chance to come and do that again. It might have helped if we actually saw a pig! Late night spotlighting from a Landcruiser was more to their liking, not that they could always stay awake. This is another good reason to include a .223 in your list. It's a great choice for volume shooting at rabbits or other small to medium pests, or even small game with good shots from shooting sticks. Good quality ammo of various kinds is available and hand-loading is easy. Great results are virtually assured. You'll both enjoy it.

You're lucky to have the option of suppressors. Totally banned here in Oz, for no sensible reason I can see. It seems the police are concerned we'll all turn into criminals if they're legalised, since only criminals use 'silencers'. Go figure. Notwithstanding the good sense of your authorities, I'm not convinced that ordering the threading option (or retrofit work by a local gunsmith) is necessary with a .223 - provided you feel confident that ear protection will always be used. Apologies for bringing this up again, but the screaming sound of kettles whistling in my ears is my constant companion. It's always the loudest thing I can hear, even when I'm driving my Landcruiser or sitting in a Boeing. It was a single shot from a friend's 22-250, fired too close to my head and before I had time to put on my earmuffs, that did most of the damage. All because of a rushed shot at the only rabbit we saw all day. Which he missed. Even a hit rabbit isn't worth someone's hearing. Nor a trophy Kudu.

I've never used a suppressed rifle but I've noticed that where a shooter has the choice and takes advantage, having one fitted for a new rifle is often automatic. I do wonder what I would do. I'm a little concerned that if I was carrying a suppressed rifle I might be tempted to take the occasional snap-shot, where time to fit ear-plugs and don earmuffs wasn't available. Sure, the rifle would be quieter, but it would still be loud enough to do damage, particularly if one's ears were already complaining with tinnitus. With my rifles being fully noisy, I simply do not fire them without first putting on the PPE. Before moving off this subject, I'll mention one of the side benefits of the Mauser M03's safety system, being the cocking-decocking mechanism. This cocking lever ensures that the firearm cannot discharge unexpectedly. At the very least, it will stop hearing from being damaged.

Now that a .223 is looking like a good choice, what else? :-) You mentioned a .243 Winchester as a possible alternative and I would agree that it should be seen that way. With super-accurate flat base 68 gn target bullets it would be perfect for small pests. The recoil and muzzle blast is not that much different from a .223. Losing sight picture through a scope that's zoomed in is going to happen with both for your daughter, so not a great deal of difference there. The real question is, which animals might your daughter be hunting with a .243, in your company? If the answer includes small to medium antelope and even wild boar, then a .243 Win is a good choice. Once your daughter is used to how it shoots she can progress up to loads with 95 or 100 grain bullets, which will perform appropriately on these animals, while also being far more accurate at long range in cross winds than a .223 can ever be. I see the two of you out hunting on the veldt, her with a .243 and you with the 6.5, provided you've acquired that second stock and receiver (hint - great idea!). Or you can share the one rifle, which means she won't have to carry one for miles - also a good idea.

You're right that a .243 and 6.5x55 are close to each other. I have both and use them differently. The .243 has both 68gn target loads (used for rabbits and foxes) and 95gn hunting loads prepared and sighted in. I click the scope to switch between the two, with perfectly accurate results out to 300 metres. The 6.5 has only one load made up, being 140gn high ballistic coefficient hunting bullets (by Berger), for use on pigs at long range. It'll do 500 metres without a problem.

Another way of looking at this is, if you get a .223 and the two of you are out with this and your 6.5, well you've got a lot of flexibility there. Once your daughter is ready, she'll be able to use the 6.5 successfully and comfortably. This would be the most flexible pairing, at the lower end of the power scale.

Now let's move up the scale a bit. Given that we're talking about 'wants' more than 'needs', and that you're in South Africa with its interesting terrain, it's an opportunity to look at the gap between 6.5x55 and 9.3x62. I also note that you've mentioned .338, meaning your not shying away from magnum style power, blast and recoil. The assumption on my behalf is that Mauser must have indicated that they'll make barrels for people in pretty well any calibre they're capable of. Bewdy! Take advantage while you can.

Some shooters appear to be virtually immune to blast and recoil. I'm not. For me it largely depends on what I'm aiming at. I do not enjoy sighting in a 30-06 at a paper target, even a Mauser M03 which helps with the recoil quite well. But, if it's a pig jogging along at 60 metres distance and I'm free standing or steadying against a tree - the recoil feels like a .223. :-) Exaggerating, of course, but it's curious how real hunting changes our experience of blast and recoil.

Perhaps, instead of a 338 Win Mag, 338 Blaser Mag or 8x68S, which, as you've pointed out, are close to 9.3mm in bullet types and knockdown power, a choice that would give you more opportunities would be a 300 Win Mag. Very accurate, great for long distances, hard hitting, lots of ammo choices and manageable recoil for those who are inclined to indulge in such things. No question, a .338 has more punch than a .300, but it does also tend to belt up the shooter a fair bit, especially if shooting prone with a bipod at longer range targets. You can do this with a .300 and not feel like you need to call an ambulance.

An alternative that people keep coming back to, because it's an excellent alternative, is the 30-06. I love this calibre. It's ridiculously flexible, although most of us end up using 180 grain hunting projectiles, because it's not the only rifle we have. It does still wallop the shoulder, but only so much that you know you've fired an icon. It does the job down range in a most satisfying way, without making you regret the Magnum fever you had when ordering. It makes you feel clever. It's efficient. The cartridge design just looks ... right.

And since we're talking about 30-06, we have to take one little side-step and switch over to one of the absolute gems of shooting development and hunting history. Anyone who has followed my blog knows where I'm going. Drum roll please.

The 270 Winchester. :-D I literally smile every night before I go to sleep, thinking about how long I waited before getting a 270 and enjoying the fact that I now have one, in a Mauser M03 no less, and that it's everything the famous hunters and gun writers have always said it was. Simply perfect.

Sure, a 270 is close to your 6.5, but it actually has quite a bit more punch, without the bordeline offensiveness of the 30-06's recoil.

Decisions, decisions. Let's say you'd like to keep it down to two new barrels and that the focus is the best fit with what you already have, while considering what will work well for your daughter, along with your intended applications. In this light, I'm thinking .223 Remington and .300 Winchester Magnum. I see these two getting plenty of use, rather than always being left behind because they're not different enough. Rifles are like golf clubs - they're all different but there's only so many you can take. If the number is restricted for some reason, a spread is best, for a hunter.

If three new barrels is on the cards, I'd think about adding a 270 Win. It's just so easy and fun and flexible and useful and capable. It's giving yourself a treat.

Now, please write back and let me know by how much I've missed the mark. Fill in the gaps in my knowledge with some thoughts on what you'll be hunting and what the terrain will be like. Everything I've written could change. :-) It could be that it's too good an opportunity to pass over getting a .375H&H Magnum, because you want to cook home-made free-range Cape Buffalo burgers on your patio barbecue. I would be jealous if you went for one of those.

Regards, Rick.

p.s. Consider sending a private message to Derek Edgley who you can find in this thread. He might still have the subject M03 for sale. He had it made for use in Africa, but I don't think it made it there.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mauser-m03-blog-discussion-forum/iZ1PbMBUzfI

[Rick - Mauser M03 Blog author]

Here is a reply from Derek Edgley, which I'll post here on his behalf. Regards, Rick.

Hi Rick interesting discussion to which I would respectfully suggest that in an African location the 30-06 will provide much more versatility than a 270, with as you know a vastly superior bullet range and obtainable factory loadings.
I’ve had several of both and leant towards the 30-06 for that reason, only being completely eclipsed, by as you say, the 300 Win Mag which IMHO is the ubiquitous rifle for African plains game and ammo obtainable everywhere and in a huge variety of loadings. The 7x57 Mauser is also very common but lacks the firepower. I also have had several rifles in 7mm Rem Mag again very common and in 175g can handle Zebra for example. I’ve also used the larger variants above that, the best of which was the 7mmSTW, proving itself on many occasions in both Scotland and Africa but one has to ensure ammo availability and especially when you’ve done a long haul flight with rifle separated from the ammunition.
For Africa, the 8x68S is a fabulous calibre and plentiful ammo and I fooled with that too in a couple of rifles, both M03, in fact a barrel still exists at Macleod Tain. Gregor has a small inventory of M03 barrels and related items so would be well worth a call as he can and does export globally.
In regard to the 243 vs 6.5x55,  I would be unable to compare on the same page, by reason that the 243 is all done at 100grain loadings in standard barrels, whereas we can indulge up to 160g with the latter whose ability to take deer size animals and above far outweighs anything a 243 can provide. There are also regulations in SA and other African countries, which specify various minimum calibres to ensure humane despatch and once again the Swede outweighs the .243. Here in UK, 243 for example is considered inadequate for Sika Stags with 270 and above recommended where pursuit being made in thick forestry plantations.
As often quoted - beware the man with one rifle and mine would be 300Win Mag complemented by your 223 suggestion or my favourite the 22-250 which will best it in any circumstance. But as a starter with a young girl then 22LR graduating to lightweight bullets in the Swede with Dad carrying the 300 and as bullet weights sometime increased in the 6.5 graduating to the 300.
As you say, felt recoil in the heat of the moment is tolerable especially when compared to shooting anything off the bench and disappears when something is in front trying to get close and personal.
I have bi-lateral hearing loss through the discharge of a 222Rem in close proximity so can absolutely enthuse over proper hearing  protection being worn from .22LR upwards.
The Mauser M03 “Stock Only” ! is for sale on EBay recently listed as in this guise it can be sold and posted worldwide.
It’s a pleasure to read your informed blogs and wish there were more pig hunting  exploits narrated. In regard to moderators, I was hitherto unaware that these weren’t permitted in Australia as mostly now required as a stalking lease condition here in UK and you will probably have observed,  even in good old USA, various states have approved their usage. They really tame recoil and suppress the sound signature whereby animals will often not flight respond  in the same manner as unmoderated. With the kick stop recoil reducer built into the stock plus the wildcat moderator the 338 RUM is an absolute pussycat to shoot off the bench making the recoil more akin to 243 or similar, totally belying the presence of some 4000+ Ft Lbs ME
The EBay listing for anyone interested is  shown below.
In the meantime I hope all keeps well with you and yours

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/143636028592?ViewItem=&item=143636028592

Kind Regards

Derek

[Rick - Mauser M03 Blog author]

Hi Derek.

Thanks so much for writing in and offering the benefit of your experience. It's a bit like hearing from Hemingway or Ruark. Rich will no doubt absorb your thoughts with great interest.

You're completely right about the 30-06 and even more so the 300 Win Mag being better choices for plains game than the 270 Win. I've used 220gn Nosler Partitions in a 30-06, something a 270 can never match. And it still took three shots to make that Sambar deer pause for a rest. 'Placement, placement, placement,' says every Real Estate Agent when he's on safari. But in defence of my favourite, the 270, last year it knocked over an even bigger Sambar stag, with just the one properly placed shot to the spine at the base of the neck. Lights completely out. Hmmmm. If ever folk needed to be beware of me, this Mauser M03 270 Win would be my one gun. :-)

Regards, Rick.

[RichG]

Hi Derek and Rick

Firstly thanks for taking so much time to post your detailed views and experience. It's really much appreciated. And you both illustrate the problem with my question well. There are so many great calibers and none of the suggestions and motivations you mention have any flaws in them. In a perfect world I'd own them all!

Your points on hearing protection are all well made. I wear hearing electronic inserts (which are great for upland birds) ( I paid up for some Defender Pros)  and on the range I wear electronic muffs over them. I definitely shoot better when I have great hearing protection that's for sure. And also with a suppressor I'm definitely more accurate. So I am probably recoil sensitive by extension.

My reasons for going 6.5 Swede and 9,3x 62 were, on reflection, more nostalgia than practicality. Great historic cartridges but in SA oddly there isn't much of a range in factory ammo in either. For example you can get Federal Cape Shok in Swift A Frame 286gr, but not the Federal Cape Shot Woodleigh Hydro solid in 286gr which would be the ideal second shot on a Cape Buffalo. In 6.5 Swede the only premium European factory ammo is Norma in 156gr (which is fantastic up to 200m). So most people here handload in both calibres. I have the kit but want to get my rifle proficiency as good as possible and then load so I don't have too many variables! I have shot about 30 boxes of ammo in the 6.5  so far so I'm getting there and it groups around .5MOA which is great. On the 9,3 I have shot less tho found less consistency but that I'm sure is me getting used to the recoil and the bang. It is unsuppressed. I'm in the kalahari in a week with both rifles so will report back then. The (longwinded) point I was making was that I would like calibers where ammunition is widely available so I have non-hand loading options. For your amusement here are links to two gunshops I go to to get a sense of what local flavour is. https://safarioutdoor.co.za and https://zimbi.co.za. Enjoy!

For Plains game shooting I would definitely say my friends are evenly split between 270 and 30-06. 308 is very popular still that's for sure too. Most S. Africans probably own a 30-06 as a the one rifle for all things calibre.

If I think about bullet weight rather than calibre (Derek suggests that, thank you) maybe I get the answer a little more clearly:

40-60 gr 223

60-100gr 243

120-160gr 6.5 x55

160-200/220 30-06/308/300 WM

232-325 gr 9,3

325gr+ 404J ;-) 

So perhaps (unwisely!!) I will consider another M03 action and acquire 300WM, and 243 (and the hard to find 404J). I am then set for low recoiling plans game and long distance shooting up to almost anything. BTW in SA I know of a few gunsmiths who have made barrels in 404J for the M03 system. Then I have 2 actions and 3/4 barrels plus a 9,3. Very extravagant for sure, and if i get the chance or feel  incomplete I may look for a 22-250, 243, 270, 30-06 and a 375😂. All fantastic calibers in their own right and worthy of acquisition! I feel it is a waste to have the system and not a variety of barrels that together should give a lifetime of shooting for me and my kids and their kids. I may consider a separate 270 given they are widespread and available here and extremely competent on PG. Thanks for your views on that Rick.

Thanks again Derek and Rick. I really appreciate your knowledge and expertise and thanks for taking the time to respond and discuss. If you ever find yourself in SA let me know and I'd be very happy to give you a hand with suggestions/advice/ or have a beer!

In some ways it would be (much) cheaper to buy a separate gun of a particular calibre, but the ease of travel with the M03 is pretty spectacular and the news of discontinuation has spurred me on.

Thanks again and I will post some further news as and when I execute the decisions.

Best wishes 

Richard