Zahnmedizinische Mailing List eroeffnet
Michael Logies
dental professionals. Language of the list is german.
Deutschsprachige Mailing-List "Zahnmedizin"
Kürzester Weg zur Anmeldung (Groß-/Kleinschreibung beachten!):
http://www.logies.de/Formular.html
Dieses deutschsprachige Forum soll dem fachlichen Austausch für alle
dienen, die der Zahnmedizin beruflich verbunden sind oder sein werden:
Zahnärzte, Zahntechniker, Zahnarzthelferinnen, Industrie- und
Handelsvertreter, Forscher, Lehrende, Studierende, Consultants (jemanden
vergessen?).
Das Forum ist geschlossen: Eine Anmeldung wird von mir persönlich
akzeptiert oder, sicherlich selten, abgelehnt. Ich möchte niemanden auf
der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
Um sich auf der Liste einzutragen, bitte kurze email an die
Anmeldeadresse: zahnmedizi...@ml.han.de
Bitte Name, Adresse, Tätigkeit angeben. Ihre Anmeldung wird bestätigt.
Die Nachrichten, die für alle Listenteilnehmer gedacht sind, müssen an
folgende Adresse gesandt werden: zahnm...@s1.net
Um die Liste zu verlassen, benutzen Sie bitte den Automaten der Liste:
Email an: zahnmediz...@s1.net Im Text (body): unsubscribe
Benutzen Sie nur diese Adresse fürs Abmelden! Wenn Ihre email an die
Liste, d. h. alle Teilnehmer, "unsubscribe" enthält, wird sie
automatisch aus dem Verkehr gezogen, und Sie sind dann noch nicht
abgemeldet.
Bei Problemen email an: zahnmediz...@ml.han.de
Vorbild dieser deutschsprachigen Liste ist das englischsprachige
"Internet Dental Forum" (IDF, http://www.stat.com/): Wie dort soll es
nicht ausschließlich bierernst zugehen und die zahnmedizischen Themen
sollten möglichst vielfältig sein. Im Unterschied zur IDF soll dieses
Forum nicht ausschließlich auf die beschränkt sein, die klinisch am
Patienten tätig sind. Ich hoffe, daß von dieser Möglichkeit vernünftig
Gebrauch gemacht wird:
Platte Werbung durch Firmen oder ihre Strohmänner ist unerwünscht,
seriöse Produktinformation hingegen, möglichst knapp, ist willkommen.
Die Liste ist von mir im Juni 1997 ins Leben gerufen worden und wird von
mir, einem niedergelassenen Zahnarzt, betreut und finanziell getragen.
Sponsoren für den weiteren technischen Ausbau dieser Liste (z. B. Digest
oder frei suchbares Archiv) sind willkommen. Sponsoren können aber nicht
mehr erwarten als eine Erwähnung in dieser Einführungmail, die jeder,
der sich auf der Liste anmeldet, bekommt.
Das deutsche Problem des Duzens/Siezens überlasse ich den
Listenteilnehmern. Da Listenteilnehmer sich auf Messen,
Fortbildungsveranstaltungen etc. begegnen werden, sollte man vielleicht
auch auf der Liste so verfahren, wie im "wirklichen Leben".
Die Benutzung eines ausgewachsenen email-Programmes mit Filterfunktionen
wie Pegasus, Eudora (!) oder Agent wird dringend empfohlen (siehe:
http://www.stroud.com/).
Die Liste erlaubt threading, also das Verknüpfen von emails. Diese
Verknüpfung kann dann von den genannten email-Programmen graphisch
dargestellt werden, was Diskussionen übersichtlich macht. Um threads,
also Verknüpfungen, intakt zu lassen, bitte auf email mit "reply" oder
"Antwort" antworten, _nicht_ mit "forward" oder "Weiterleiten". Eine
"reply" geht immer zurück an die Liste. Falls privater Austausch mit
Listenteilnehmern gewünscht ist, bitte die Adresse ändern!
Umlaute sind auch möglich.
Um sparsames und sinnvolles "Quoten" (wörtliches Zitieren aus
vorhergehenden emails) wird gebeten. HTML-Code ist unerwünscht. Binäre
Dateien (Bilder z. B.) gehören nicht auf die Liste. Die Maillänge ist
auf 40.000 Zeichen beschränkt worden.
Viel Spaß!
Michael Logies
Zahnarzt
Große Straße 28
D-49134 Wallenhorst
Telefon: 49-5407-39090
(Diese Nachricht wird alle 4 Wochen automatisch versandt.)
--
** log...@ml.han.de (Michael Logies, D-49134 Wallenhorst, germany) **
http://www.logies.de/
Renate Ratlos
>Ich möchte niemanden auf
>der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
"Selbst Reparaturen von Goldkronen mit Amalgam, etwa bei Karies
am Kronenrand, sind problemlos."
--
while (drilling(teeth(f(caries(f(cola))))) Dollar++)
Joel M. Eichen
>On 16 Apr 2000 01:07:00 +0100, log...@ml.han.de (Michael Logies) wrote:
>>Ich möchte niemanden auf
>>der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
>"Selbst Reparaturen von Goldkronen mit Amalgam, etwa bei Karies
>am Kronenrand, sind problemlos."
Si, no problemo.
>--
>while (drilling(teeth(f(caries(f(cola))))) Dollar++)
Renate Ratlos
wrote:
>renate...@bigfoot.com (Renate Ratlos ) wrote:
>
>>On 16 Apr 2000 01:07:00 +0100, log...@ml.han.de (Michael Logies) wrote:
>
>>>Ich möchte niemanden auf
>>>der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
>
>>"Selbst Reparaturen von Goldkronen mit Amalgam, etwa bei Karies
>>am Kronenrand, sind problemlos."
>
>Si, no problemo.
I knew you would say that.
But I still hope that you will learn from us...
--
I really enjoy asking the patient a question after I've inserted the entire
operatory in the patient's mouth.
(Zugumba in sci.med.dentistry)
ar...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>renate...@bigfoot.com (Renate Ratlos ) wrote:
>
>>On 16 Apr 2000 01:07:00 +0100, log...@ml.han.de (Michael Logies) wrote:
>
>>>Ich möchte niemanden auf
>>>der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
>
>>"Selbst Reparaturen von Goldkronen mit Amalgam, etwa bei Karies
>>am Kronenrand, sind problemlos."
>
>Si, no problemo.
Wrong, stop bloating the ADA opinion and get your own: read the
literature.
arie
>>while (drilling(teeth(f(caries(f(cola))))) Dollar++)
>
Joel M. Eichen
>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:24:04 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>wrote:
>>renate...@bigfoot.com (Renate Ratlos ) wrote:
>>
>>>On 16 Apr 2000 01:07:00 +0100, log...@ml.han.de (Michael Logies) wrote:
>>
>>>>Ich möchte niemanden auf
>>>>der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
>>
>>>"Selbst Reparaturen von Goldkronen mit Amalgam, etwa bei Karies
>>>am Kronenrand, sind problemlos."
>>
>>Si, no problemo.
>Wrong, stop bloating the ADA opinion and get your own: read the
>literature.
Huh? Arie, the correct opinion of those who know is that microgram
amounts of mercury (which are also eliminated through normal
processes) are not harmful. Yes, it accumulates . . . .but from
industrial accidents and from folks dumping electronics into the
landfills. This finds its way into the food chain..
Cheers,
Joel
=====
>arie
>
>>>while (drilling(teeth(f(caries(f(cola))))) Dollar++)
>>
ar...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>ar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:24:04 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>>wrote:
>
>>>renate...@bigfoot.com (Renate Ratlos ) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 16 Apr 2000 01:07:00 +0100, log...@ml.han.de (Michael Logies) wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Ich möchte niemanden auf
>>>>>der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
>>>
>>>>"Selbst Reparaturen von Goldkronen mit Amalgam, etwa bei Karies
>>>>am Kronenrand, sind problemlos."
>>>
>>>Si, no problemo.
>
>>Wrong, stop bloating the ADA opinion and get your own: read the
>>literature.
>
>Huh? Arie, the correct opinion of those who know is that microgram
>amounts of mercury (which are also eliminated through normal
>processes) are not harmful.
I already posted that the Dutch Health Council concluded that
microgram amounts can be detrimental. And this is really based on
literature. Not the latest however, because in that case they also
would have concluded that you get those micro-gram amounts from
amalgam fillings.
Now you state that the 'opinion' that it's not true is valid...
strange... urban legend against science again?
arie
Hans Lennros
You wrote:
>Huh? Arie, the correct opinion of those who know is that microgram
>amounts of mercury (which are also eliminated through normal
>processes) are not harmful. Yes, it accumulates . . . .but from
>industrial accidents and from folks dumping electronics into the
>landfills. This finds its way into the food chain..
Joel, I agree with you for a change. The only way Mercury should
be an source of exposure for humans is through accidents and
criminal actions.
Hans
Joel M. Eichen
>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 18:58:06 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>wrote:
>>ar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:24:04 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>renate...@bigfoot.com (Renate Ratlos ) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 16 Apr 2000 01:07:00 +0100, log...@ml.han.de (Michael Logies) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Ich möchte niemanden auf
>>>>>>der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
>>>>
>>>>>"Selbst Reparaturen von Goldkronen mit Amalgam, etwa bei Karies
>>>>>am Kronenrand, sind problemlos."
>>>>
>>>>Si, no problemo.
>>
>>>Wrong, stop bloating the ADA opinion and get your own: read the
>>>literature.
>>
>>Huh? Arie, the correct opinion of those who know is that microgram
>>amounts of mercury (which are also eliminated through normal
>>processes) are not harmful.
>I already posted that the Dutch Health Council concluded
Concluded based upon any studies? Or is this a political movement to
improve the dental health of the populace?
> that
>microgram amounts can be detrimental. And this is really based on
>literature. Not the latest however, because in that case they also
>would have concluded that you get those micro-gram amounts from
>amalgam fillings.
>Now you state that the 'opinion' that it's not true is valid...
>strange... urban legend against science again?
>arie
>>Yes, it accumulates . . . .but from
>>industrial accidents and from folks dumping electronics into the
>>landfills. This finds its way into the food chain..
>>
Joel M. Eichen
>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 18:58:06 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>wrote:
>>ar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:24:04 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>renate...@bigfoot.com (Renate Ratlos ) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 16 Apr 2000 01:07:00 +0100, log...@ml.han.de (Michael Logies) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Ich möchte niemanden auf
>>>>>>der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
>>>>
>>>>>"Selbst Reparaturen von Goldkronen mit Amalgam, etwa bei Karies
>>>>>am Kronenrand, sind problemlos."
>>>>
>>>>Si, no problemo.
>>
>>>Wrong, stop bloating the ADA opinion and get your own: read the
>>>literature.
>>
>>Huh? Arie, the correct opinion of those who know is that microgram
>>amounts of mercury (which are also eliminated through normal
>>processes) are not harmful.
>I already posted that the Dutch Health Council concluded that
>microgram amounts can be detrimental. And this is really based on
>literature. Not the latest however, because in that case they also
>would have concluded
(according to Arie and Renate) that is . . . .
Joel M. Eichen
>Hi Joel,
>You wrote:
>>Huh? Arie, the correct opinion of those who know is that microgram
>>amounts of mercury (which are also eliminated through normal
>>processes) are not harmful. Yes, it accumulates . . . .but from
>>industrial accidents and from folks dumping electronics into the
>>landfills. This finds its way into the food chain..
>Joel, I agree with you for a change. The only way Mercury should
>be an source of exposure for humans is through accidents and
>criminal actions.
>Hans
Thanks so much. Of course we all agree that amalgam is not the best
filling procedure available. We strive to get all patients away from
amalgam.
ar...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>ar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 18:58:06 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>>wrote:
>
>>>ar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:24:04 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>renate...@bigfoot.com (Renate Ratlos ) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 16 Apr 2000 01:07:00 +0100, log...@ml.han.de (Michael Logies) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ich möchte niemanden auf
>>>>>>>der Liste, der der Dentalwelt nicht professionell verbunden ist.
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Selbst Reparaturen von Goldkronen mit Amalgam, etwa bei Karies
>>>>>>am Kronenrand, sind problemlos."
>>>>>
>>>>>Si, no problemo.
>>>
>>>>Wrong, stop bloating the ADA opinion and get your own: read the
>>>>literature.
>>>
>>>Huh? Arie, the correct opinion of those who know is that microgram
>>>amounts of mercury (which are also eliminated through normal
>>>processes) are not harmful.
>
>>I already posted that the Dutch Health Council concluded
>
>Concluded based upon any studies? Or is this a political movement to
>improve the dental health of the populace?
Yep, the study committe contained 5 dental professors and 2
toxicologists. Studied lots of literature, and came with that
conclusion (besides others).
It's the Dutch official advisory counsil for the government.
arie
>> that
>>microgram amounts can be detrimental. And this is really based on
>>literature. Not the latest however, because in that case they also
>>would have concluded that you get those micro-gram amounts from
>>amalgam fillings.
>>Now you state that the 'opinion' that it's not true is valid...
>>strange... urban legend against science again?
>
>>arie
>
>>>Yes, it accumulates . . . .but from
>>>industrial accidents and from folks dumping electronics into the
>>>landfills. This finds its way into the food chain..
>>>
Renate Ratlos
wrote:
>Yes, it accumulates . . . .but from
>industrial accidents and from folks dumping electronics into the
>landfills. This finds its way into the food chain..
Rubbish.
Mercury vapour can be measured in the mouths of people with dental amalgam
fillings.
How about the mercury levels of people with no amalgam fillings in their
teeth?
Mr. Eichen, you forget the most simple thing in science: use of two
comparable groups.
--
I *don't* suffer from insanity: I enjoy *every minute* of it!
(Sig von Marianne Kestler)
Renate Ratlos
<hans.l...@swipnet.se> wrote:
>The only way Mercury should
>be an source of exposure for humans is through accidents and
>criminal actions.
I would not allow criminal acts being done with mercury.
Joel M. Eichen
>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 18:58:06 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>wrote:
>>Yes, it accumulates . . . .but from
>>industrial accidents and from folks dumping electronics into the
>>landfills. This finds its way into the food chain..
>Rubbish.
>Mercury vapour can be measured in the mouths of people with dental amalgam
>fillings.
Rubbish.
>How about the mercury levels of people with no amalgam fillings in their
>teeth?
Rubbish.
>Mr. Eichen, you forget the most simple thing in science: use of two
>comparable groups.
Rubbish
>--
>I *don't* suffer from insanity: I enjoy *every minute* of it!
>(Sig von Marianne Kestler)
No rubbish.
Joel M. Eichen
>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:49:34 +0200, "Hans Lennros"
><hans.l...@swipnet.se> wrote:
>>The only way Mercury should
>>be an source of exposure for humans is through accidents and
>>criminal actions.
>I would not allow criminal acts being done with mercury.
Call the dental police!
Renate Ratlos
wrote:
>renate...@bigfoot.com (Renate Ratlos ) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 18:58:06 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>>wrote:
>
>>>Yes, it accumulates . . . .but from
>>>industrial accidents and from folks dumping electronics into the
>>>landfills. This finds its way into the food chain..
>
>>Rubbish.
>
>>Mercury vapour can be measured in the mouths of people with dental amalgam
>>fillings.
>
>Rubbish.
>
>>How about the mercury levels of people with no amalgam fillings in their
>>teeth?
>
>Rubbish.
>
>>Mr. Eichen, you forget the most simple thing in science: use of two
>>comparable groups.
>
>Rubbish
Gotcha.
--
GIVE ME THAT DAMNED BOY!
(Janet Reno)
Joel M. Eichen
>On Sun, 23 Apr 2000 15:19:26 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>wrote:
>>renate...@bigfoot.com (Renate Ratlos ) wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 18:58:06 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>Yes, it accumulates . . . .but from
>>>>industrial accidents and from folks dumping electronics into the
>>>>landfills. This finds its way into the food chain..
>>
>>>Rubbish.
Okay, then dump your TVs and electrical switches in the landfill, but
only in Germany please.
>>
>>>Mercury vapour can be measured in the mouths of people with dental amalgam
>>>fillings.
>>
>>Rubbish.
>>
>>>How about the mercury levels of people with no amalgam fillings in their
>>>teeth?
>>
>>Rubbish.
>>
>>>Mr. Eichen, you forget the most simple thing in science: use of two
>>>comparable groups.
>>
>>Rubbish
>Gotcha.
Huh? Renate is becoming autistic. (not artistic).
Renate Ratlos
wrote:
>Okay, then dump your TVs and electrical switches in the landfill, but
>only in Germany please.
Don't try to duck out.
The large amounts of mercury ist getting into the patients bodies from the
amalgam fillings.
As far as I know there is no amalgam filling tree.
Amalgam is applied by dentists.
Joel M. Eichen
>On Sun, 23 Apr 2000 15:51:21 GMT, jo...@earthlink.net (Joel M. Eichen)
>wrote:
>>Okay, then dump your TVs and electrical switches in the landfill, but
>>only in Germany please.
>Don't try to duck out.
No joke. I am mailing you my old TV.
>The large amounts of mercury ist getting into the patients bodies from the
>amalgam fillings.
Nah!
Ever see a thermostat with a mercury switch? That's around 2 grams of
mercury (liquid mercury) right into the landfill.
With fillings it is 5 micrograms. That is 5/1,000,000ths of a gram.
This is a smaller number than 2.
Renate Ratlos
wrote:
>No joke. I am mailing you my old TV.
Bitwise through the usenet?
>>The large amounts of mercury ist getting into the patients bodies from the
>>amalgam fillings.
>
>Nah!
Oh, yes!
>Ever see a thermostat with a mercury switch? That's around 2 grams of
>mercury (liquid mercury) right into the landfill.
Don't duck out.
>With fillings it is 5 micrograms. That is 5/1,000,000ths of a gram.
>This is a smaller number than 2.
People don't have thermostat switches in their teeth.
They have amalgam fillings. And THAT is where the mercury is leaking out
into their bodies.