Discussion on dos-121-136

[Sharlene]

#11. What proposition does Ben make to Willy?
The proposition between Ben and Willy is $20,000 worth of insurance
money.
That insurance money will go to the Loman family after Willy's death.
Willy wants to provide for his family and the only way he could think
of was to commit suicide, so the family would have money, since Willy
had been fired.

#16. What was Willy's tragic flaw?
Willy's tragic flaw was that he was unable to face reality. Willy had
many problems in his life, from the affair he had, to the arguements
with his sons, Biff and Happy. He also had problems with money and
worried about everything in life. Willy wasn't able to grasp the fact
that nothing played out the way he wanted. He was practically in his
own world and his problems caught up to him when he began having
flashbacks and seeing things. Willy was stuck in his past, having
converstaions with people of the past and he had lost his sense of
reality. He didn't want to believe that things weren't going to turn
out his way and when he finally realizes everything in the end such as
the truth behind his son, Biff, and noticing people and the voices
around him, reality became nothing to Willy.

[Chris]

Q 16 / 47) What was Willy’s tragic flaw?

In my opinion, Willy has a few tragic flaws, though one of them would
be that he keeps dwelling on the past. An example would be when he
told Howard, “In those days there was personality in it, Howard. There
was respect, and comradeship, and gratitude in it.” (Miller 81) This
quote symbolizes the American Dream-where people are, “…recognized by
others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances
of birth or position.” (James Truslow Adams (What is the American
Dream? Handout))-because back then people treated each other equally,
with respect. And now Howard was going to fire him because he wasn’t
pulling his own weight and, “…business is business.” (Miller 80)
Howard doesn’t care about Willy that much, no more than the amount of
money he could make, which shows that the American Dream is slowly
diminishing to an area where materialism is above everything else.
Even though Willy had a lot of experience on his shoulder, when he
couldn’t make any money, he was deemed as worthless.

Willy thinks about the past a lot because it was the closest he has
come to the American Dream: his two boys were “…built like
Adonises.” (Miller 33) and they had a lot of respect for him, he was
[in his eyes] a good dad role model for his children, something that
he never got and he was making enough money to support the family.
Which all shattered when Biff found out about his affair. Ever since
then, it all started going downhill for him. And rather than moving on
and making the best out of what you got, he thinks back to the past.
This could be one of the reasons why he committed suicide-because he
managed to get a bit of his American Dream back (when he found out
Biff loved him) and he didn’t want to risk it going downhill again.

[Cathy Mai]

16. What was Willy's tragic flaw?
I believe that Willy's tragic flaw is his fixation on being "well-
liked". Not only does this bring him down, but it plays a part in
Biff's failing math mark, which is where his life turns around. On
pages 32-33, Bernard practically begs Biff to study for math,
otherwise Mr. Birnbaum will fail him. Willy is convinced that Biff
will still be able to graduate even if he flunks math, stating, "With
scholarships to three universities, they're gonna flunk him?" (pg 33).
Instead of encouraging Biff to study, Willy assures his sons that
"...the man who makes an appearance in the business world, the man who
creates personal interest, is the man who gets ahead. Be liked and you
will never want" (pg 33). It is obvious that Willy drills this thought
into his son's mind because Biff ends up failing math, and is unable
to graduate. Now, he is unsure of what he wants to do with his life,
barely making any money at all and even ending up in jail at one
point. Willy's way of thinking that all you need is popularity and
status to get by in life has not only affected himself, but his family
as well.

[ANDREA]

15) How does Willy's suicide demonstrate the tragic element
peripeteia ?

Well the defination of peripeteia is a "A sudden change of events or
reversal of circumstances,"
This was clear in the last few pages of the book, as we saw how Biff
finally confronted his father, and all was finally well between them.
Though Linda did not want Biff to talk to Willy because she was afraid
of the results, it gave both Willy and readers hope when Biff cries
and Willy feels a sense of excitement." Did you see how he cried to
me? Oh , if I could kiss him, Ben! " (Miller 135).
Arthur Miller leads us to believe that now that Biff and Willy's
relationship has changed he is no longer depressed. However at the
final end of the play readers find out that Willy infact does commit
suicide, however it is for the better of his family as he hopes that
they will recieve his life insurance.
Therefore I think that the fact that Biff cried lead us on a different
path that there relationship is now stronger and he no longer feels a
burden however he still commits suicide.

[ANDREA]

16 ) What was Willy's tragic flaw?

Willy's tragic flaw was that he always needed to be "well liked " and
not just liked. Due to this flaw he drew many away such as his sons.
When Biff was going to see Bill Oliver , Willy seemed to be giving him
advice in order to his son to be "well liked'' because just being
liked did not seem good enough.
His tragic flaw was also that he wanted to have money. He knew that
his brother was well off with money , and his neighbour Charley was
also well off, however Willy himself did not have the money to support
himself and would have to borrow from Charley, This also leads to the
flaw that he did not accept Charley and was jealous of him as he had
to borrow money from him and pretend it were his own. When Charley
offers Willy a job after he loses his own ( Miller 97) Willy just
refuses .

[Antonio Fernandez]

Question 16: What was Willy’s tragic flaw?

I think that Willy’s tragic flaw was that he tried to push his dreams
of becoming a success onto Biff. He only saw a success as being well
liked and making money. He obviously missed that opportunity, so he
began to force that idea into his children. He always saw Biff as
being the one who was well liked throughout high school, but after
that incident in Boston, he never really saw him much, so he would
assume that Biff hadn’t changed and because of this, he always pushed
Biff over the limit and questioning why he wasn’t a great salesman/
success. Another big flaw Willy had was that he was full of pride. He
always wanted to impress someone either with what he had or what he
was doing, but when others were moving ahead of him, he couldn’t
handle it and became jealous. In order to make himself feel big, he
would tell his wife how he would make all this money meanwhile that
was the money Charley was giving him in order to make payments.
Lastly, he saw himself as being the only one who could get his family
out of troubles and ended up killing himself for twenty thousand
dollars. It wasn’t necessary because all the house payments were
finally made and he could have lived a peaceful life, but instead
chose death. He thought that he was a hero for doing this, but really
it just left everyone wondering what was going on in his head.

[Matthew Ez]

11. What proposition does Ben make to Willy?

The proposition between Ben and Willy was about the $20,000 Willy
would receive from his insurance, but to get this money it would have
to cost him his life. Since Willy Loman has struggled to provide for
his family, he came to a conclusion that the only way to aid his
family financially was to basically kill himself or commit suicide.

16. What was Willy's tragic flaw?

Willy Loman's tragic flaw is the fact he cannot face the real world.
In my opinion, its not that he couldn't face the real world, but its
because he didn't want to. I say this because when Biff was spewing
his heart out to Willy at the dinner they all went to and coming clean
about the whole act of being a salesman to Bill Oliver when really
Biff is a shipping clerk; Willy was not accepting that Biff was a
shipping clerk and you can almost say that Willy was in denial. Willy
has to also stop living in the past because even though the past were
better days, those days are over, So in order for Willy to have
successful I believe that he would have to go from NOWHERE to NOW
HERE.

thank-you :D

[Nicole :)]

Q; What was Willy Lowman's tragic flaw?

A: Willy Lowman's tragic flaw was that he was fixated on unrealistic
expectations, his reluctance to change and his obsession with the
approval of others. He was preoccupied with being "well liked" and
desperately wanted a successful lifestyle and career for his sons.
Because of his fixations, everyone he knew and was close to, seemed to
lose touch with him. His fixations and rigidity isolated him from his
friends and family. The world around him was changing, and he
wasn't ...he was still stuck in his past. There were apartments
developing around his former peaceful home, his work and his co-
workers were changing; becoming "cut and dried" (Miller 81). "They
don't know me anymore" (Miller 81), and no one really did, just like
Jay Gatsby. He was an unfortunate character, lost in his own thoughts
and feelings.

[Lexis]

#1 but re numbered #10 : ) Explain the significance of the planting of
seeds.

The significance of Willy planting the seeds is that he was trying to
start a new beginning and it was spring so that's when everything kind
of starts fresh.The seeds also is in a way WIlly trying to leave
something of him behind so people will remember him and it also
represents the success he wants to leave to his family.

[Andrew Viet]

Q: 13) Explain how Happy is just like his father.
Throughout the story, Happy always seemed to be the less important and
less outspoken brother, between himself and Biff. His similarities to
Willy start to show in Willy’s flashbacks of the boys when Happy keeps
saying “I lost weight Pop, you notice?” showing that he’s always
trying to please people. This is like Willy’s personal philosophy that
you have to be liked to be successful. Another time where Happy shows
his likeness to Willy is in the restaurant, when he tries to hook up
with the girl. He even abandons his father in the restaurant, saying
“he’s not my father, he’s just some guy.” Happy is like Willy here in
the sense that he’s horny, always looking for sex; like when Willy has
the affairs with The Woman. I also remember reading out the part where
Biff says about Happy being an “assistant to an assistant” when Happy
tries to sell himself as more, whereas Willy always tells Ben,
Charley, and Bernard that his own sons, as well as himself, are doing
big things. Happy also tells Ms. Forsythe that Biff is a very
successful man in the West. Finally, Happy shows that he shares the
same dreams as Willy, “to come out number-one man,” as well as showing
a dream for Biff that Biff knows he doesn’t want. Biff says he knows
who he is, while Happy doesn’t know. All Happy knows is that Willy’s
dream is the false dream that he wants.

Q: 16) What was Willy’s tragic flaw?
I agree with Chris and Sharlene that his tragic flaw was the fact that
he couldn’t get out of the past, and that his expectations for himself
as well as his boys were unfulfilled so he always goes back to the
past when his expectations were high, and when he was closest to the
American Dream, like Chris said. Since he couldn’t get out of the
past, he keeps thinking about how his American Dream didn’t come true,
and that’s what basically drove him to attempt suicide; because he
feels disappointed in his own achievements and that his family would
be better off without him.
I think that another tragic flaw of his was his perception of the
American Dream and his idea of how to achieve it. He believes that the
way to achieve success is to be well-liked; to be popular and good-
looking. He believes that Biff and Happy would be successful because
of their social status in high school, while ridiculing Bernard
because he’s “liked but not well-liked.” In the end, Bernard ends up
successful while Biff and Happy are virtually job-less. The way that
Willy treats other people based on his beliefs are possibly a reason
why he himself is not successful, because people don’t really like
him, and this reflects at his funeral when nobody shows up.

[Lexis]

#16 What were Willy's tragic flaw?
Willy had similar tragic flaws to Gastby.Willy's tragic flaws was that
he was stuck in the past and wanted everything to be the same as in
was when everyone was going in the right path.He was also obessed with
the American Dream and pushed his son's to do things they didnt really
want to do.He also compared himself to people like his brother anc
Charley who were making a lot of money.

[Dana]

#4. What was Willy's tragic flaw?

I believe that foremost, Willy was a very weak man. Besides this, he
had unattainable dream, and because of his passion for material and
social status, he single-mindedly lost sight of reality. This was easy
to do, in my opinion, especially due to the fact that Linda was very
supportive of anything he did or said, and was so blinded herself,
that she didn't have the power to use her own judgement and guide him
the right way. Thus, Willy's tragic flaw, was (in similarity to
Gatsby) his idealism.

[ADAMTAVONE!]

13) Explain how Happy is just like his father.

Happy is just like his father because Happy is primarily focused on
working and business much like Willy. Happy is also the youngest son
in the family, just like Willy was. They both had an older brother
who was more admired by their parents. Ex: Biff is admired by Willy,
Ben (Willy's brother) was admired by his father. Willy and Happy were
both neglected by their fathers', and are constantly sought attention
from their father.

16) What was Willy's tragic flaw?

Willy's tragic flaw is that he is trying to relive the past, obvious
from his constant flashbacks about when he and Biff got along better.
Also, Willy is obsessed with making enough money and living the good
life, and is constantly forcing this onto his children. Willy is
basically a hypocrite. He is telling his kids to be like him and make
enough money to support their families when Willy can't even do this
himself.

[Andre]

16. What was Willy's tragic flaw?

I think that Willy's tragic flaw is that, like others said, he keeps
living in the past and wants things to be how they were. Things always
change, that's how life is. This is shown to us through the many
flashbacks in the play. Willy keeps remembering the relationship that
him and Biff used to have. He was also always thinking about making
enough money. He would tell his sons to get jobs and make money, while
he himself couldn't.

[Liv]

#3-- Pages 121-136
"Identify Willy and Biff's moment of anagnorisis."

It is widely known that the element of anagnorisis is integral in any
tragedy and is used in Death of a Salesman to express the realization
Willy and Biff had about their relationship, prior to the sudden death
of Willy. ANAGNORISIS is defined as the discovery that the reversal
of fortunes (peripeteia)was brought about by the hero's own actions.
The reversal of fortunes in the case of Death of a Salesman is evident
in the contrast between the flashbacks and present-day state of Willy
and Biff's relationship. Biff, as a teen, seemed destined for stardom
and success and- in his father's eyes- fulfilling the American Dream.
In reality, his adult life was spent making little money around farms,
ending up in jail for stealing, and being unable to come to terms with
his father's expectations. Biff tries to tell his father the truth
about his failed attempt to see Oliver over dinner, and even goes so
far as to admit that he never really worked for Oliver in the first
place, like his father had always believed in his intricately-
constructed fantasy. He was only a shipping clerk. What had his
father been thinking all these years? Willy's world, at this point, is
becoming hazy and confusing to him. The dream he thought his family
lived in back when the kids were young all seemed to be untrue. Biff,
meanwhile has his own anagnorisis by realizing that his father has
been delusional about the past and his own past glory and becomes
determined to break through his father's clouded mind and reveal the
truth. Therefore, Willy and Biff's moment of anagnorisis came when
they realize that they have been believing Willy's "dreamworld" story
of a life in the past, and that it is this that caused their
misfortune of a broken relationship. Their disagreement on facts of
the past brought about the reversed fortune, and over dinner, they
both come to realize that this is was the fault of Willy's
disillusionment.

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[Liv]

**WHAT IS WILLY LOMAN'S TRAGIC FLAW??**
I don't know about you guys, but I most definitely think that Willy's
biggest flaw was that he spent his life living in a DELUSIONAL WORLD
OF THE PAST. In the hazy craze of his own depression, Willy Loman re-
constructed his family's true past in his own mind. In order to
contrast his present situation of almost-unemployment and broken
relationships with his "unsuccessful" sons, Willy paints a picture of
adoring sons and Biff's unending opportunities and shine of the past.
His dreams and reality end up creating a giant melange of un-truths
and consequently, bring about his demise. His tragic death occurs
after he realizes that his dreamed past was much, much more glamorous
than the reality of things.

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[Daniel]

16. What was Willy Loman's tragic flaw?

A: Willy's tragic flaw was that he wanted life to be like it was in
the past, without worries or troubles, and with his kids having their
life on track. He did not want to deal with the present because it
was so opposite from the perfect past him and his family had. Willy
wanted to relive his past and he tried to do this, which put stress on
himself and his family.

10. Explain the significance of the planting seeds.

A: The seeds are a symbol of Willy's failure as a man. He can't
provide for his own family and put food on the table, so he attempts
to use the seeds as a means for providing for his family. He does this
to try and prove to his family that he is worth something, but his
attempt at growing these vegetables is a failure, just like the rest
of his life, with him out of work, and his son going from a football
star to a bum.

[Cass]

16 What was Willy's Tragic Flaw?

Willy's tragic flaw through out the novel is that he was stuck in the
past. As much as Willy wanted to be a successful salesman, fulfill the
American Dream, and also ecpect his family particulary his sons to
accomplish things they werent interested in, became a struggle for
Willy. Will was not able to face reality that the dreams he was
longing
for were very unrealistic for the time period he was in. This all
occurred
to us while we watched Willy go through the many flashbacks during the
novel which showed us that Willy ended up driving himself insane.

[FJ]

#16. What was Willy's tragic flaw?

Willy's tragic flaw was that he would always remember about the
past. Scenes portrayed as flashbacks brought back memories and regrets
Willy had. He thought being wealthy and well known would get him
somewhere but Willy works hard to get money, to live a good life, and
especially experience that American Dream but the reality is, its
about freedom and love that brings happiness. Because of his random
flashbacks, he neglects to deal with the present. Hes blinded by what
he sees in the past and does not live his present life. In the past it
was so perfect for him and his family.