invisible times

[d^3p]

whats the best to implement invisible times?

thanks.

d^3p

[Davide P. Cervone]

Can you be more specific about what you are trying to accomplish?
That is, are you trying to produce a certain MathML output from TeX?
Are you trying to encode invisible times in your own MathML input? Or
something else?

Davide

[d^3p]

I want to include invisible times in Tex. But MathJax does not render invisible times. So my fix is to use thin space for invisible times. That is working fine. I was asking if that is the best way to do it or if there are other ways.

thanks,

d^3p

[Christian Perfect]

The \phantom command leaves space equivalent to whatever you put inside it. For example: a \phantom{\times} b - see http://checkmyworking.com/misc/makebigmaths/index.html?a%20\phantom{\times}%20b 

[Davide P. Cervone]

It would be possible to set up a macro that inserts the <mo>&#x2062;</
mo> that is the MathML needed for invisible times. But as you say,
MathJax will not provide any space for that. I can not find anywhere
in the MathML3 spec that says it should, so if you have any reference
to that, I'd be happy to see it.

Davide

[William F Hammond]

There should be no space for invisibleTimes.

--
William F Hammond
http://www.albany.edu/~hammond/
Email: gel...@gmail.com

[Davide P. Cervone]

Bill:

I'm not sure that the MathML3 spec says exactly that, either.  At the end of 

http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter3.html#id.3.1.1

it says:

These entities have distinct spoken renderings, may influence visual linebreaking and spacing, and may effect the evaluation or meaning of particular expressions.

(my bold), and so it leaves it open to the render to use invisible times to influence spacing.  Similarly, at the end of

http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter3.html#presm.invisibleops

it says:

The reasons for using specific mo elements for invisible operators include... such operators should often have specific effects on visual rendering (particularly spacing and linebreaking rules) that are not the same as either the lack of any operator, or spacing represented by mspace or mtext elements;

(bold mine).  For example, I could see having the invisible times in

<mn>2</mn>

<mo>&#x2062;</mo>

<mn>3</mn>

insert some space to avoid the product looking like the number "23".

Davide

[William F Hammond]

The example with invisibleTimes between '2' and '3' (both wrapped in
<mn>) is not particularly compelling. A more assertive operator is
needed, e.g., $2 \cdot 3$. That said, <mn>23</mn> is correct for the
integer $23$, while I think there should be no difference between the
visual rendering of <mn>2</mn><mn>3</mn> and
<mn>2</mn><mo>&InvisibleTimes;</mo><mn>3</mn>. Certainly the latter
provides weak semantic enhancement and probably helps audio rendering.

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Davide P. Cervone <dp...@union.edu> wrote:
> Bill:
>
> I'm not sure that the MathML3 spec says exactly that, either.  At the end
> of
> http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter3.html#id.3.1.1
> it says:
> These entities have distinct spoken renderings, may influence visual
> linebreaking and spacing, and may effect the evaluation or meaning of
> particular expressions.

> . . .

---
Wiliam F Hammond
http://www.albany.edu/~hammond/
Email: gel...@gmail.com