using E308H-17 instead of E308H-16

[Peyman Hafezi]

Dear friends
We have a  WPS for welding 321-SS  base metal with ER 308h+E 308h-16 which is approved by PQR but the matter is non-availability of E308H-16 and we would like to use E308H-17 instead.
There is no mechanical and chemical difference between these two according to ASME Sec II Part C, the only difference is in cover composition that makes -17 better for fillet welds in comparison with -16. But the question remains because our joint is groove and not fillet. What's your opinion? Could -17 be used for groove welding instead of -16 ( without need of a new WPS and PQR) ?

[John Henning]

Yes the essential variables for filler metals are F-number {QW-404.4} and A-number {QW-404.5}.  Both electrodes will be F-5 and A-8.  Classification is a non-essential variable {QW-404.33} which may be changed without requalification.  If your WPS states specifically that the SMAW electrode be E308-16, you will have to either revise or write a new WPS which permits the use of the -17 electrode.  This should only be a minor inconvenience.

 

John A. Henning

Welding & Materials

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[Ramin Kondori]

Dear Peyman:

A “16” electrode has a titania or rutile based coating and can be used
with both DC and AC polarity. Electrode sizes of 5/32 in. (4.0 mm)
and smaller are often used for all welding positions.

A “17” electrode has a silica-titania type coating and is a
modification of a 16 coating, in that some of the titania is replaced
with silica. They also can be used with both DC and AC polarity.
Additional silicon in the coating acts as a wetting agent, having the
effect of increasing puddle fluidity. This is particularly helpful
with stainless steels, as they tend to have more of a sluggish weld
bead than carbon steel.

L-17 type electrodes produce a flatter bead profile than the other two
types and are often used for flat and horizontal position welding.
However, electrode sizes of 4.0 mm and smaller can be used for all
position welding. Note that with a vertical up progression, the
slower freezing slag will require more of a weave technique than with
a 16 type electrode.

There is no need for requalification since F-Number and A-Number are the same.

Ramin Kondori
QA/QC Manager
IRAN-LNG project
(IWE AT 0070)

[Shashank Vagal]

Gents, Please see attached the specs from Esab for these 2 electrodes. You will note that - the Ferrite content no. FN range is different for -16 and -17 grades - tensile strength is less for -17 - charpy values differ. So, they are not identical in chemical and mechanical properties. I would say a re-qualification would be required. Best regards, Shashank Vagal --- On Thu, 1/3/12, Peyman Hafezi <peyman...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Peyman Hafezi <peyman...@gmail.com> Subject: [MW:13799] using E308H-17 instead of E308H-16

[Ponni Saravanan]

Ya. you can use 17 instead of 16. because it will give extra strength to any joint.

 

Saravanan.P.P

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[Tarantula Ghosh]

Dear Peyman,
ASME II C, IX reference may not always be enough. Check the
manufacturer's data sheet and verify compatibility. Sometimes you get
valuable information from it peculiar to your application. In your
case, I checked. You can use -17 for -16 and vice versa.
Thanks,
Tarantula Ghosh

>  -16 and -17 electrodes ASME II C -2010.pdf
> 56KViewDownload
>
>  Chemical composition of undiluted weld metal- ASME II C -2010.pdf
> 61KViewDownload
>
>  Mechanical requirements of weldmetal- ASME II C -2010-2.pdf
> 55KViewDownload

[pgoswami]

Hi Peyman,

 

As listed in QW 253, a change of AWS classification (QW 404.12) is a supplementary essential variable, which means a change from E-308 to E-316 . If the changes  related to filler metal are are such that, only  type of coating is change e.g, from 15 to 16 or 17, a requalification as per Sec-IX is not required.

 

As per ASME Sec-IX,  QW--404.12(c):- if the changed  filler metal conforms to a filler metal classification within an SFA specification, requalification is not required if a change is made in any of the following-

• for carbon, low alloy, and stainless steel filler metals having the same minimum tensile strength and the same nominal chemical composition, a change from one low hydrogen coating type to another low hydrogen coating type (i.e., a change among EXX-15, 16, or 18 or EXXX-15, 16, or 17 classifications).

However  editorial changes should be made in the WPS.

 

Note  many clients' specification calls for requalification if the coating type is changed, one may have to  keep that in mind.

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist & Consultant

Ontario, Canada.

Email-p...@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net