Groove weld qualification for fillet weld

[manpreet]

Dear All,

According to QW-451.4, Groove weld qualifies for all thickness ranges of fillet welds,

In production a a fillet joint with 25mm & 13mm, impact test required,

Is the code saying that QW-403.6 & QW-451.1 will not be applicable here? Please give me your views.....


Regards
Manpreet Singh

[JASPAL SINGH]

Dear Manpreet,

For Welder Qualification as per Section IX there is no variable for
Impact . As far as base metal is concerend the only variable is 403.16
& 403.18 in case of SMAW.

As per below extract from ASME Section IX:

QW-303.1 Groove Welds — General. Welders and welding operators who
pass the required tests for groove
welds in the test positions of table QW-461.9 shall be qualified for
the positions of groove welds and fillet welds
shown in table QW-461.9. In addition, welders and welding operators
who pass the required tests for groove welds
shall also be qualified to make fillet welds in all thicknesses and
pipe diameters of any size within the limits of the
welding variables of QW-350 or QW-360, as applicable

Best Regards,

JASPAL SINGH CWI-AWS, CSWIP-3.1
ISGEC-PED, Yamunanagar, Haryana (India) PH: +911732307251 ; Mob.
+918930111441(CUG), +919996624244
www.isgec.com

On Dec 30, 7:54 am, "manpreet " <manpreetsi...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,According to QW-451.4, Groove weld qualifies for all thickness ranges of fillet welds,In production a a fillet joint with 25mm &amp; 13mm, impact test required,Is the code saying that QW-403.6 &amp; QW-451.1 will not be applicable here? Please give me your views.....RegardsManpreet Singh

[manpreet]

Dear Jaspal,

QW-403.6 is applicable for minimum base metal limits for impact tested qualification, What i m asking is that, QW-451.4 is stating that a groove weld qualification shall be qualified for all thickness of fillet weld, does that mean, we need not to follow QW-451.1 & QW-403.6....  

Somebody please answer this query......

Regards
Manpreet Singh
 


On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 10:47:24 +0530 JASPAL SINGH wrote

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[praveen alavandar]

Manpreet,   There is not any catch point in Sec.IX to limit your fillet weld material thickness or weld deposit thickness even when impact testing is applicable.   You have to just follow QW 451.3 limits only.   Why is that you qualified a fillet PQR for an impact tested application, instead of supporting any groove weld PQR?   Regards,   A.Praveen --- On Thu, 12/30/10, manpreet <manpre...@rediffmail.com> wrote:

[manpreet]

Dear Pravin,

Perhaps i couldn't explain it properly,

For a production fillet weld joint between 25mm and 13mm thks, Can I use any groove weld PQR for making WPS without considering QW-451.1 and QW-403.6 ? 

Please answer me with code reference..

Regards
Manpreet Singh




On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:42:40 , praveen alavandar <prave...@yahoo.com> wrote

[p_cha...@mail.bg]

 Dear all,

please take into account QW-202.2

Best regards Parvan Chavdarov

----- Цитат от manpreet (manpre...@rediffmail.com), на 30.12.2010 в 10:57 -----

>> Dear All,According to QW-451.4, Groove weld qualifies for all thickness ranges of fillet welds,In production a a fillet joint with 25mm & 13mm, impact test required,Is the code saying that QW-403.6 & QW-451.1 will not be applicable here? Please give me your views.....RegardsManpreet Singh

> >-- >To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com >For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ >The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents. > -- To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

[praveen alavandar]

Manpreet,   Please provide details of the production fillet weld configuration for more details. Either clause QW 451.1 or QW 451.4 doesnt impose any additional restriction on thickness by referring QW 403.6 in it. However QW 403.6 looks to be stand alone reference on limiting the base material thickness range. This can be a good question to be answered by Sec.IX committee through interpretations, I dont know if there is any existing interpretation available for this case.   members can help it here.   What does your Authorised INspector say about this? In the mean while i'll also check with my Authorised INspector.

[manpreet]

Dear Pravin,

Usually I don't get to see many fillet weld qualifications since my current project is pipeline, but this specific case is for BARRED TEES, where Groove weld PQR was used for Fillet weld WPS, though all variables were satisfactory but I was not comfortable with QW-451.4 which says that any groove weld shall qualify for ALL Fillet welds,

Thanks for your time and also would like to request other members to look through the matter and give a sound reply.

Regards
Manpreet Singh


On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 13:43:32 , praveen alavandar <prave...@yahoo.com> wrote

[Hisham Al. Mohammad]

Dear All,

Table 451.4 states that: "Supplementary essential variables apply when toughness is required by other Sections" and by referring to QW-403.6, we will find that the thickness is limited in general not only for the groove weld. It means that fillet welds are including otherwise why this note regarding the supplementary essential variables is mentioned in QW-451.4 ?!
The groove welds govern fillet welds not vice versa.

[munee...@gmail.com]

Thats great and agreed, as clause 451.4s note very clearly stipulated as applied for notch. 

Anyhow i wonder if i would like to make a pure fillet weld qualifications as per QW-451.3, in this case i do not have any project butt welds requirement for production, but only fillets and limited  by the service case i need to do impact, what would you recommend on this scenario.

Please advise.

---

Regards,

Mohamed Muneeb Mahaboob

CSWIP 3.2-89247/2 

IRCA-9001:2015 LA

ASNT-NDT-L2-RTFI-RT-UT-MT-PT.

SAP#:70021650 APs:JAPID, QCS & QCI.

E munee...@gmail.com M +91-636-955-7189

''If you know any art by any means then SCULPT IT - no matter how cheap or useless it is - JUST SCULPT IT, you will never know when experts will be on demand'' 

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[Hisham Al-Metwally]

Dear Mohamed,

It depends on if impact test is required or no regardless if the qualification is done by fillet weld or groove weld so if you qualify by pure fillet weld or by groove welds, nothing changes because the thickness limitations are based on the impact test requirements, not on the method of qualification. The reason is that for impact requirements, we have to be very careful about the amount of welding and heat input then we have to limit the thickness as per QW-403.6 in ASME IX.

I hope it is clear now.

Thanks & Regards

Hisham Al. Mohammad

Welding Engineer & QA/QC Engineer

Mob: +971 56 433 7326 & +971 52 667 9935

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 7:46 AM munee...@gmail.com <munee...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Thats great and agreed, as clause 451.4s note very clearly stipulated as applied for notch. 

Anyhow i wonder if i would like to make a pure fillet weld qualifications as per QW-451.3, in this case i do not have any project butt welds requirement for production, but only fillets and limited  by the service case i need to do impact, what would you recommend on this scenario.

Please advise.

---

Regards,

Mohamed Muneeb Mahaboob

CSWIP 3.2-89247/2 

IRCA-9001:2015 LA

ASNT-NDT-L2-RTFI-RT-UT-MT-PT.

SAP#:70021650 APs:JAPID, QCS & QCI.

E munee...@gmail.com M +91-636-955-7189

''If you know any art by any means then SCULPT IT - no matter how cheap or useless it is - JUST SCULPT IT, you will never know when experts will be on demand'' 

From: Hisham Al. Mohammad

Date: 2018-12-15 12:22

To: Materials & Welding

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[Patel Vivek]

Hi Praveen/ Manpreet,

There are two things to consider :

1) Fillet weld : Macro, Fracture(Hammer Test) both are qualitative test. it is very difficult take impact sample and evaluate there actual energy at required MDMT.

2) Groove Weld : Impact test (10x10x55 mm),where you can check that at required MDMT impact is going to pass or fail. which one is deciding factor for go ahead (which respect to process : heat input, current, electrode E7018 to E7018-1)

please find attached ASME interpretation on your query.

Thanks...

Regards,

Vivek  

 

Warm Regards,
Vivek patel
+91-9824874732

[Hisham Al-Metwally]

Hi Vivek,

Yes. QW-403.6 shall apply when impact test is required.

Can you please tell me from where you got these documents, questions and answers ?!

Thanks and regards
Hisham Almetwally

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018, 5:43 pm Patel Vivek <vivekpa...@gmail.com wrote:

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Hi Praveen/ Manpreet,

There are two things to consider :

1) Fillet weld : Macro, Fracture(Hammer Test) both are qualitative test. it is very difficult take impact sample and evaluate there actual energy at required MDMT.

2) Groove Weld : Impact test (10x10x55 mm),where you can check that at required MDMT impact is going to pass or fail. which one is deciding factor for go ahead (which respect to process : heat input, current, electrode E7018 to E7018-1)

please find attached ASME interpretation on your query.

Thanks...

Regards,

Vivek  

 

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 10:09 AM Hisham Al-Metwally <eng.hi...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Warm Regards,
Vivek patel
+91-9824874732

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[munee...@gmail.com]

Greetings,

Hisham / Vivek,

The infomation is very clear for the requirments as stated in QW-451.4 / 403.6 or heat input requirements, which is usual, but the precise question is for fillets impact can be done practically or not and i see divided opinions, in this case i would recommend that can we have both patterns of sample of proofs for fillet welds acceptance / rejection in impact test? so that we can come to a conclusion to put an end to this topic.

Thanks.