ER70S-3 for low temperature application

[Muhammed Ibrahim]

Hi members,

 

Please provide a suggestion for the following query.

 

I have qualified a PQR for GTAW+SMAW with ER70S-3 & E7018-1. The PQR is impact tested at - 46 deg C at root(GTAW) and filling (SMAW) and passed (Min. 50J energy obtained).

 

As per ASME Sec.II part C, E7018-1 will support up to - 46 Deg C, but ER70S-3 will support up to - 20 Deg.C only.

 

Since I have proven the toughness through PQR, can I use this PQR for job with impact test requirement of - 46 Deg C, even ER70S-3 does not support for this temperature as per Sec.IIC?.

 
Thanks & Regards
Muhammed Ibrahim PK

[Raghuram Bathula]

Yes, you can, however you may ensure each batch is tested for impact at this temperature though it is not a requirement

--
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

Could you clarify what is the application code? Section I, section VIII-1?

---

[Muhammed Ibrahim]

Hi,

 

The code is ASME SEC. VIII Div.1.

 

Regards,

Ibrahim

--

[Chandra, Vasanthan (Lagos)]

 

Yes, you can support this PQR, since you have valid impact test report

 

Vasanth

 

 

 

 

 

---

*** WORLEYPARSONS GROUP NOTICE *** "This email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the information contained in it. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the email and any attachments. Any personal views or opinions expressed by the writer may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any company in the WorleyParsons Group of Companies."

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

Then you will find your answer in USC-67.
If you do not have the code or you have interpretation problems let me know.

[Norberto Barbosa]

The Minimum Average Strengh for ER-70S-3 is -30°C at 27J. The Maximum is until it goes.

a hug,
Norberto de Souza Barbosa-Brazil
 

---

Subject: Re: [MW:4673] ER70S-3 for low temperature application
From: george....@gr.bureauveritas.com
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 16:13:22 +0200
To: material...@googlegroups.com

---

Veja todos os seus e-mails de diferentes contas com apenas um login. Veja como.

[Natarajan Devan]

yes you can apply PQR.

Once proven record is available. i think your PQR is LTC ( A333)material.

regards

N.Devan

 

--

To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

--
Natarajan.Devan
Senior Welding Inspector
Al Furat Petroleum Co-Syria
Syria Shell Petroleum Development
Tel: 00963 11 6182103 Res
Mobile: 00963 933052385

INDIA: 0091 9840330143 Res.
Mobile: 0091 9884745254

[kannayeram gnanapandithan]

Better u Test ER70-S3 with GTAW separately at minus 46 c and u can be sure on this eventhough code does not call

[Ramani, Vaidyanathan (Kuwait)]

As you have stated, ER 70 S3 are normally manufactured to meet -20 Deg criteria as per standard requirements ASME Sec II C. However if your project requirement calls for -46 Deg C, the filler metal also need to be procured with the filler metal certified to this as a special requirement or if your client accepts all filler wire batches can be tested at external lab. Note that testing at external lab might lose the filler metal manufacturers liability in case of problems. This is in addition to the fact that the PQR has passed the -46 Deg C requirement.

 

 

 

With Regards,

V.Vaidyanathan
Welding Inspection Engineer │ Worley Parsons│Kuwait
( +965 238 61657 │ Fax. +965 2398 1695
www.worleyparsons.com

---

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kannayeram gnanapandithan

Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 6:29 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[pgoswami]

Hi Mr.. Ibrahim,

 

If you look closely in SFA 5.18, ER-70S-3 generally have less consistency and less proven value for low temperature impact properties.It's required to meet 27 J impact @ -20 Deg C. In comparison both ER-70S-2 and ER-70S-6 are designed to meet 27 J impact @ -30 Deg C.

 

Between ER-70S-3 and ER-70S-2 filler the later is a better designed filler wire for GTAW, because of higher level of deoxidizers. Hence if your project budget and technical specification insist on C-Mn filler for GTAW , then ER-70S-2 would be a better choice. However you may have to impose the impact test criteria @ -46 Deg C, with the consumable suppliers and get every batch certified for -46 Deg C impact.

 

The other wire ,ER-70S-6 is  required to meet the same level of impact criteria as ER-70S-2, but some specifications may restrict the use of high Manganese filler due to possibilities of cracking due to higher strength.

 

The other option would be to use ER-80S-Ni filler. It may prove a bit expensive as compared to C-Mn fillers.However as a requirement of ASME SFA 5.28 this filler should be routinely guaranteed for impact test  @ -46 Deg C (as per SFA 5.28) or for still lower temperature by consumable manufacturers (see as attached). This may offset the requirements of special batch testing etc, if the supplier insists the same.

 

Hope this would provide enough help in your queries. I have attached some data sheets for quick references from the same manufacturer.

 

I see this topic has  generated many responses.

 

Thanks. 

 

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.

Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist

Component Integrity Section.

Engineering and Training Services

Ontario Power Generation Inc.

Res:-88,Garth Trails Crescent

Hamilton,Ontario, L9B2X1,Canada

Email-p...@sympatico.ca

Email-p...@quickclic.net

Tel-905-679-9677

 

---

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramani, Vaidyanathan (Kuwait)
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:48 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MW:4684] ER70S-3 for low temperature application

As you have stated, ER 70 S3 are normally manufactured to meet -20 Deg criteria as per standard requirements ASME Sec II C. However if your project requirement calls for -46 Deg C, the filler metal also need to be procured with the filler metal certified to this as a special requirement or if your client accepts all filler wire batches can be tested at external lab. Note that testing at external lab might lose the filler metal manufacturers liability in case of problems. This is in addition to the fact that the PQR has passed the -46 Deg C requirement.

 

With Regards,

V.Vaidyanathan
Welding Inspection Engineer │ Worley Parsons│Kuwait
( +965 238 61657 │ Fax. +965 2398 1695
www.worleyparsons.com

---

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of george....@gr.bureauveritas.com
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 10:13 AM
To: materials-welding
Subject: Re: [MW:4673] ER70S-3 for low temperature application

Then you will find your answer in USC-67.
If you do not have the code or you have interpretation problems let me know.

---

  From: Muhammed Ibrahim [ibra...@gmail.com]
  Sent: 02/04/2010 16:34 ZE4
  To: material...@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Re: [MW:4670] ER70S-3 for low temperature application

Hi,

 

The code is ASME SEC. VIII Div.1.

 

Regards,

Ibrahim

 

On 2 April 2010 09:58, <george....@gr.bureauveritas.com> wrote:

Could you clarify what is the application code? Section I, section VIII-1? 

 

 

---

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raghuram Bathula
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 12:42 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:4665] ER70S-3 for low temperature application

Yes, you can, however you may ensure each batch is tested for impact at this temperature though it is not a requirement

[Muhammed Ibrahim]

Dear Sir,

 

UCS 67 (a) (2) says 'Weld made with filler metal shall be impact tested if base metal is excempted by UCS 66 and MDMT is colder than-29 deg.c and not colder than-48deg.c and welding consumable is classified by impact test at a temperature not warmer than the MDMT by the applicable SFA Specification is used.

 

In my case I mentioned ER 70S-3 is specified for -20 deg.C as per SFA Spec. which is warmer than the MDMT of the euipment (-46 deg C).

My query is, as stated in UCS 67 I have Impact tested the PQR at MDMT -46 and passed the test. As per the proven support of PQR can I use ER 70 S3 for -46 deg.C application without seperate batch test?.

 

Regards,

Muhammed Ibrahim PK

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

Let us take the thinks one by one
1. Your base metal is exempted from impact test
2. Your MDMT is 46 deg
3. Your filler material ER60S-3 is per spec at -20 deg
4. Your WPS was successfully qualified at -46
Conclusion: you can use this WPS for that combination of base metal and filler metal and MDMT warmer than -46 Deg C with no additional filler metal test.
I suppose you have checked compliance of your fabrication process with UG 84 regarding production impact test.
Regards

[Prabhu Kumar L]

Dear Ibrahim,

 

In order to assure, each batch shall be tested for impact toughness test at MDMT in addition to test conducted during PQR qualification. In general filler metal manufacturer will satisfy the requirements of ASME Sec. II Part ‘C’. Any additional requirements shall be communicated to the manufacturer in PO itself in order to meet the testing requirements.

 

Some of the reputed manufacturers such as Lincoln, Bohler could able to meet the above requirements. Please enquire with them.

 

Regards,

 

L. Prabhu kumar,

Sr. Principal Engineer,

 

Equipments & Materials Dept.,

Saipem India Projects Limited,

Nungambakkam High Road, Chennai - 600 034, India.

Tel:+91 44 43906588, Ext.: 588, Fax:+91 44 66840345,

Mobile Ph. No.: +91 9003010978.

---

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or  entity to whom it is addressed and others authorized to receive it. It may contain confidential or legally privileged  information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution  or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If  you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by responding to this email and then  delete it from your system. Saipem India Projects Limited (SIPL) is neither liable for the proper and complete  transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt.  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------