Combination of two welding process with diffrent PQR

[Mervin]

Hi to all,

Can you give me a suggestion if the two welding process can be combined or can be used in production joint without PQR of this two welding process.

* we have a qualified wps for smaw
And we have a wps qualified for saw may question is can we use this two wps.

Thanks

Mervin






Sent from my iPhone

[hany alfy]

yes it can be most of time use Smaw for root then can apply Saw or Fcaw Regards, HA Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

---

From: Mervin <mervi...@yahoo.com>;
To: <material...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: [MW:19000] Combination of two welding process with diffrent PQR
Sent: Sun, Oct 20, 2013 2:42:12 AM

-- To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding+unsub...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-welding+unsub...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Paulo]

You will have to write a WPS with the parameters of the combined processes.

Regards.

[Saravanan Sornam]

Hi Mervin ,

Yes you can combine these 2 Processes, provided you have to fulfil ASME-IX, QW 200.4 (b) requirements .

In your case , if you want to use SMAW on root side, the SMAW 's PQR basemetal thk should be Min. 13 mm and you should have used SMAW until full thickness of basemetal .

Also ensure you can access inside for back gouging or grinding to remove slags after you weld SMAW on root side in Ur production joint.

What is Ur actual plan, where R U going to use this combination process, what basemetal thk. Is any Pipe involved in Ur query ?

Provide all the details, if possible .

Cheers,

Saravanan,

Korea

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.

[mervin dio]

sir,

 

Yes we are going to use this combination process and we are going to use this in tank storage the actual thicknes to be weld is 12mm plate.

 

I have a doubt because this two welding process is approve with separate WPS & PQR.

 

 MERVIN C.DIO
QC.WELDING INSPECTOR
AL SUWAIKET  SUPPORT

From: Saravanan Sornam <sarava...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MW:19012] Combination of two welding process with diffrent PQR

Hi Mervin ,

Yes you can combine these 2 Processes, provided you have to fulfil ASME-IX, QW 200.4 (b) requirements .

In your case , if you want to use SMAW on root side, the SMAW 's PQR basemetal thk should be Min. 13 mm and you should have used SMAW until full thickness of basemetal .

Also ensure you can access inside for back gouging or grinding to remove slags after you weld SMAW on root side in Ur production joint.

What is Ur actual plan, where R U going to use this combination process, what basemetal thk. Is any Pipe involved in Ur query ?

Provide all the details, if possible .

Cheers,

Saravanan,

Korea

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:03 AM, hany alfy <hanyo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

yes it can be most of time use Smaw for root then can apply Saw or Fcaw Regards, HA Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From: Mervin <mervi...@yahoo.com>; To: <material...@googlegroups.com>; Subject: [MW:19000] Combination of two welding process with diffrent PQR Sent: Sun, Oct 20, 2013 2:42:12 AM

Hi to all, Can you give me a suggestion if the two welding process can be combined or can be used in production  joint without PQR of this two  welding process. * we have a qualified wps for smaw And we have a wps qualified for saw may question is can we use this two wps. Thanks Mervin Sent from my iPhone -- To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding+unsub...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-welding+unsub...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

-- To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.comTo unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:materials-welding%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.comFor more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:materials-welding%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

-- To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.comTo unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.comFor more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Saravanan Sornam]

Hi ,
Since you are going to weld tank butt joints with SMAW and SAW process , you write a WPS with combination as per QW 200.4 (b) and check whether you have SMAW PQR with min. 13 mm thk plate qualified.
Also ensure any limitations given in your client spec for combination process requirements.
Talk to your client about your proposal before taking decision .
If they not agreed and not complying ASME - IX , then you have to qualify SMAW and SAW together.
FYI, simply you cannot combine 2 different welding process for a single joint without having proof.
Regards
Saravanan
Korea

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.

[John Henning]

The last statement, highlighted in red, is horse hockey.  If you can complete a joint with a process, you can complete a portion of the joint with a process.  Combining processes from different WPSs in a joint is an efficiency decision.  Typical is doing one PQR with a coupon with GTAW only and a second PQR coupon with another process, typically a fill process, (SAW, GMAW, FCAW, SMAW) – there is no practical reason why these two cannot be combined.

 

Per Section IX, the WPSs do not even have to be combined into a single PQR -  See QW-220.4 Combining of Welding Procedures, subsection (a) :  “ More than one WPS having different essential, supplementary essential, or nonessential variables may be used in a single production joint.  Each WPS may include one or a combination of processes, filler metals, or other variables.  . . .”

 

Don’t confuse some customer’s requirements with Code. 

 

John A. Henning

Welding & Materials

______________________________________________________________________
The information in this email is confidential, and is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email please let us know by reply and then delete it from your system; you should not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. The internet can not guarantee the integrity of this message. HAMON (and its subsidiaries) shall (will) not therefore be liable for the message if modified.
______________________________________________________________________

[Ghaith NDE]

dear experts
I have two PQR both of them according to section ix  the first as smaw and the secod PQR as gtaw  my inquiring can I combined them in single production joint  .
 in addition I have gmaw PQR can I  combined with smaw or gtaw or both .

[rudolf saldanha]

Hi,

Short answer YES YOU CAN,

Please refer to

QW 200-2 (f) which gives you an option to prepare multiple WPS from a single PQR, although there are limitations, yet it is permissible.

QW 200-4 gives you an option to combine multiple wps on one joint.

 

Thanks and regards

rudolf

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:materials-welding%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:materials-welding%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

______________________________________________________________________
The information in this email is confidential, and is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email please let us know by reply and then delete it from your system; you should not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. The internet can not guarantee the integrity of this message. HAMON (and its subsidiaries) shall (will) not therefore be liable for the message if modified.

______________________________________________________________________

--
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[John Henning]

Yes you may – be careful with using the correct base metal thickness for your combined WPS,  this has been extensively discussed previously on this group.  Of course you have to have the appropriate P-Numbers etc.

 

QW-200.4 discusses this issue.  My mistake below – should be QW-200.4(a)  (there is no subsection QW-220).

 

John A. Henning

Welding & Materials

 

[Saravanan Sornam]

Yes John ,

I agree with your statement.

Actually, QW 200.4 (b) is for combining 2 processes and to use WPS for an unlimited basemetal thk , that's why the 1st PQR to be used for root side welding should be qualified with Min. 13 T.

And for our friend, the tank butt joint WPS can be made as per QW 200.4 (a) , provided each weldmetal thk ( SMAW 't' & SAW 't' ) should cover the tank basemetal thk T, for that particular joint.

Regards,

Saravanan,

Korea

[Ghaith NDE]

Dear

many thanks about prompt reply  another question about can I combined SMAW , GTAW , GMAW , SAW or others prosess together in one PQR or single joint   because and as it is mentioned below typically we has combined GMAW ( root )  AND FCAW OR GTAW ( root) and SMAW and so what about others process combination what about smaw and saw what about gmaw and gtaw  .

another thing  I have flow line API 1104 has welded by GMAW automatic machine but when I want  to repair the defects during welding can I make that by using smaw or GTAW  but manual with taking into consideration the  SMAW and  GTAW qualified and supported with PQR API 1104 

regards

[Ghaith NDE]

Dear
I have piece coupon ( PQR) as thickness 14mm the welding processes are  gtaw for root pass and smaw 7018 for others the root pass almost 5mm and the remaining was 9mm now in the present time I want to use smaw with other processes but smaw for root pass  9mm and  as indicated in  QW.451 .1 it is correct or not  because the qualified T is 2t an so 18mm it is greater than 13mm

On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 6:42 PM, Ghaith NDE <ghai...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear
what about flow line ??
regards

[Vidhyapathi]

As pet below case the range should be GTAW - 10 mm & SMAW - 18 mm



Regards, 

Vidhyapathi